NBA 2020-2021

[edcunited1878]

I'll start with disclaimer. Haven't watched all games.

Lack of competitive series and games. Only real competitive series was Mavs against clippers. In the 2nd round so far just the jazz game was good no?

Going forwards Utah vs clippers should be good. Maybe 76ers vs hawks.

Yeah, for the most part...the better teams won. Nets blew out Celtics. Bucks destroyed whoever they played. Sixers downed Wizards and Hawks handled Knicks.

Only true good series has been Mavs/Clippers and Portland/Denver, but that went 6 and not 7.

Nets blowing out the Bucks so far is a big letdown. Those two matchups are been good so far, Clippers/Jazz and Hawks/Sixers.

 

[R'hllor]

Holy shit sometimes some players in Denver are way to heavy to be carried, MPJ on top of being greenish for playoff, now it seems he carries some back issue.

 

[Eboue]

chris paul 15 assists 0 turnovers.

 

[giorno]

Is he a max contract player in your view?

For sure. In the right context he'd be worth it too. He's basically a bigger Draymond Green

But of the teams still remaining, they deserve to be there...maybe outside of the Hawks, but the East 1-3 are the best teams from the regular season.

Hawks had the 3rd best record in the league since changing coach. They're a great team

chris paul 15 assists 0 turnovers.

Yeah he's ridiculous. Nuggets can't defend him in the PnR, they need to find a solution quick or this series is over, he's been carving them apart

 

[reelworld]

Suns defense and offense execution

 

[JPRouve]

For sure. In the right context he'd be worth it too. He's basically a bigger Draymond Green

I never made that link but that's a good comparison.

 

[JPRouve]

What are the caf thoughts on KP? Is he poorly used as a perimeter shooter or is Carlisle's idea that it's his best role for the team correct?

 

[charlton66]

The major difference between Draymond and Ben Simmons is that Draymond WON'T shoot from the outside and Ben Simmons CAN'T shoot from the outside. Even today, Green is still taking about 2 threes per game and even though his shooting percentage has dropped significantly over the last few years (primarily due to his back issues) he still shoots 3s at a higher percentage than Russ for his career.

In addition, Draymond is a career 70+ % FT shooter (almost 80% this year) whereas Simmons shoots under 60% and significantly worse under pressure. Basically you can hack Simmons at the end of a game. You can't do that with Green.

Bottom line is that Ben Simmons needs to learn how to shoot - both from the outside and from the line otherwise he and the Sixers will never reach their true potential.

 

[ZDwyr]

Draymond is also 10x the defender Simmons is. Well, peak Draymond anyway.

 

[JPRouve]

The major difference between Draymond and Ben Simmons is that Draymond WON'T shoot from the outside and Ben Simmons CAN'T shoot from the outside. Even today, Green is still taking about 2 threes per game and even though his shooting percentage has dropped significantly over the last few years (primarily due to his back issues) he still shoots 3s at a higher percentage than Russ for his career.

In addition, Draymond is a career 70+ % FT shooter (almost 80% this year) whereas Simmons shoots under 60% and significantly worse under pressure. Basically you can hack Simmons at the end of a game. You can't do that with Green.

Bottom line is that Ben Simmons needs to learn how to shoot - both from the outside and from the line otherwise he and the Sixers will never reach their true potential.

You corrected the max contract part or I imagined it?

 

[charlton66]

You corrected the max contract part or I imagined it?

I did because although Draymond is technically a MAX contract, because of the way it was done (an extension to his previous contact) he is making nowhere near normal MAX money. Since my point was going to be that he was making far less than Ben the actually terminology of the contract didn't matter and was technically incorrect anyway so I was going to edit it out.

Then since my main point was with Simmons shooting vs Draymonds' I just decided to remove it completely and not focus on the money side.

 

[JPRouve]

I did because although Draymond is technically a MAX contract because of the way it was done (an extension to his previous) contract he is making nowhere near normal MAX money. Since my point was going to be that he was making far less than Ben the actual terminology didn't matter.

Then since my main point was with Simmons shooting vs Draymonds' I just decided to remove it altogether.

It was actually the interesting point because it opened the door for the various max contracts and I would say that Simmons isn't a supermax player and isn't at the highest tier of max contracts either.

 

[Piratesoup]

What are the caf thoughts on KP? Is he poorly used as a perimeter shooter or is Carlisle's idea that it's his best role for the team correct?

RIght now he can't be used as anything else or Carlisle would've done it. His last two knee injures took at least a step from him, so he lost this ridiculous (for a guy that's 7'3) mobility. He can't roll, he can't set good picks, he can't post anyone up, not even the smallest guards, he can't take someone on the dribble. He also doesn't rebound well and can't box out smaller players. So what was Carlisle supposed to do with him? Let Porzingis take contested midrange jumpers all game?

That's not to say he'll stay that way forever, and the Clippers matchup was particularly bad for him because they had no slow bigs that Porzingis could punish by going all the way behind the three point line. Whenever he got the ball, if he didn't catch and shoot he ran the risk to have it immediately stripped by George or Leonard immediately. Dribbling against good defensive players is a bad idea when you're this tall, the ball travels for too long.
But it does feel like his body is already too damaged for him to become a true unicorn. Right now, his only strength is his good range. Lets see how he looks after a full and healthy (knock on wood) off-season.

 

[elmo]

What are the caf thoughts on KP? Is he poorly used as a perimeter shooter or is Carlisle's idea that it's his best role for the team correct?

He has the skill set of a 3 with the mobility of a 7 footer, aka it sounds better than it is in reality.

Dallas are fecked if they can't move him on.

 

[JPRouve]

RIght now he can't be used as anything else or Carlisle would've done it. His last two knee injures took at least a step from him, so he lost this ridiculous (for a guy that's 7'3) mobility. He can't roll, he can't set good picks, he can't post anyone up, not even the smallest guards, he can't take someone on the dribble. He also doesn't rebound well and can't box out smaller players. So what was Carlisle supposed to do with him? Let Porzingis take contested midrange jumpers all game?

That's not to say he'll stay that way forever, and the Clippers matchup was particularly bad for him because they had no slow bigs that Porzingis could punish by going all the way behind the three point line. Whenever he got the ball, if he didn't catch and shoot he ran the risk to have it immediately stripped by George or Leonard immediately. Dribbling against good defensive players is a bad idea when you're this tall, the ball travels for too long.
But it does feel like his body is already too damaged for him to become a true unicorn. Right now, his only strength is his good range. Lets see how he looks after a full and healthy (knock on wood) off-season.

An other question this season compared to last season Porzingis has a better FG% at the rim, within 10 feets and within 16 feets than last season on similar volume. Does that make you think that it's still a good idea to play him more on the perimeter?

 

[Zen]

chris paul 15 assists 0 turnovers.

9.0 - 1.3 split in the playoffs so far...... with a broken shoulder. ffs, not the Point God for nothing.

 

[JPRouve]

9.0 - 1.3 split in the playoffs so far...... with a broken shoulder. ffs, not the Point God for nothing.

As many have said, ring or not ring Chris Paul will be recognized as an all time great. It's amazing how he is elite at all the things a guard is supposed to provide. Having seen Chris Paul play, I struggle to understand how good guys like Stockton were because as an example his career stats are amazing.

 

[giorno]

What are the caf thoughts on KP? Is he poorly used as a perimeter shooter or is Carlisle's idea that it's his best role for the team correct?

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/the-balancing-act-of-kristaps-porzingis

 

[giorno]

In addition, Draymond is a career 70+ % FT shooter (almost 80% this year) whereas Simmons shoots under 60% and significantly worse under pressure. Basically you can hack Simmons at the end of a game. You can't do that with Green.

That's a good point. Yeah, Ben needs to improve his FT % for sure

As many have said, ring or not ring Chris Paul will be recognized as an all time great. It's amazing how he is elite at all the things a guard is supposed to provide. Having seen Chris Paul play, I struggle to understand how good guys like Stockton were because as an example his career stats are amazing.

Other than Magic, was there ever a better point guard?

 

[altodevil]

As many have said, ring or not ring Chris Paul will be recognized as an all time great. It's amazing how he is elite at all the things a guard is supposed to provide. Having seen Chris Paul play, I struggle to understand how good guys like Stockton were because as an example his career stats are amazing.

I briefly watched Stockton. He was a good hardworking player. But aren't his stats hugely inflated?

 

[JPRouve]

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/the-balancing-act-of-kristaps-porzingis

Am I missing something or they didn't answer my question? It's an interesting article though.

I briefly watched Stockton. He was a good hardworking player. But aren't his stats hugely inflated?

How would they be inflated? The league is geared toward scoring nowadays, it's the current stats that are more likely to be inflated.

 

[Eboue]

Am I missing something or they didn't answer my question? It's an interesting article though.



How would they be inflated? The league is geared toward scoring nowadays, it's the current stats that are more likely to be inflated.

Stockton's career was played in a higher pace environment than Paul's.

 

[JPRouve]

Stockton's career was played in a higher pace environment than Paul's.

So this a crude method but the average pace for Stockton was 95.25 while the average pace for Paul was 94.46. Taking that into account and the way the game is played today would you say that Stockton's stats are inflated?

 

[ZDwyr]

Other than Magic, was there ever a better point guard?

Steph?

 

[giorno]

Am I missing something or they didn't answer my question? It's an interesting article though.

He's probably still a really good player, maybe/probably not good enough to be a team's #2 guy, and the clippers were a really bad matchup for him. In the context of this series, Carlisle probably had the right idea with him

Steph?

forgot about him somehow

 

[JPRouve]

Other than Magic, was there ever a better point guard?

I forgot to answer, I have been listening to a few oldies who mentioned the likes of Stockton, Magic, Pistol Pete and Oscar Robertson. I can't answer your question but that's the names that I have heard outside of the current players.

 

[Zen]

Stockton's stats aren't hugely inflated, but yeah, go by per 100 and he's still ahead of everyone really. But not to same obscene level. Paul's one of the best though to me too, I mean some might throw the clutch issue out there when comparing him to some.... but he's playoffs numbers as totals are crazy good, it's hardly like he'd cost a truly massively favoured team if he was ever on one.... and closest he got to be the favourites was on the second favoured Rockets - when the Warriors were fully formed and obscene.

The not ringing chase stuff he's done over the past two years has elevated him to another level. He could be diming with the Nets if he was anything like his (younger) ex-wingman Blake Griffin looking for that free ring. But nope, playing with dignity and to a great level into his late 30's.

I'd have him top 5 - Magic, Stock, Curry, Nash.... but only Nash and Stock truly compare, Magic(height) and Steph(shooting) just kinda broke the mould of the PG. feck me, and the three of them have no rings between them.... urgh. But Payton and Kidd do(via chasing!)... then theres Isiah, yeah, it's a tough call.

 

[altodevil]

I was also meaning

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1158367

 

[sport2793]

Draymond is also 10x the defender Simmons is. Well, peak Draymond anyway.

His defense was pretty amazing in the play-in game against LA this year admittedly. Thought that would keep the Lakers at bay enough for them to squeak by.

 

[giorno]

I forgot to answer, I have been listening to a few oldies who mentioned the likes of Stockton, Magic, Pistol Pete and Oscar Robertson. I can't answer your question but that's the names that I have heard outside of the current players.

Oscar and Maravich were too far back for me to have an opinion, but i'll fight anyone who claims stockton was better than CP3

 

[JPRouve]

Oscar and Maravich were too far back for me to have an opinion, but i'll fight anyone who claims stockton was better than CP3

Hey, I'm in CP3's camp, I haven't seen enough of Stockton to have an educated opinion but his stats are amazing which is baffling to me because CP3 seems perfect.

 

[altodevil]

Hey, I'm in CP3's camp, I haven't seen enough of Stockton to have an educated opinion but his stats are amazing which is baffling to me because CP3 seems perfect.

Good player, great system, all-time great teammate.

 

[giorno]

Hey, I'm in CP3's camp, I haven't seen enough of Stockton to have an educated opinion but his stats are amazing which is baffling to me because CP3 seems perfect.

Two words: Karl Malone

 

[Eboue]

So this a crude method but the average pace for Stockton was 95.25 while the average pace for Paul was 94.46. Taking that into account and the way the game is played today would you say that Stockton's stats are inflated?

A little bit. He played in a system that worked for him and with a hall of fame power forward for his whole career. At their peaks, Isiah was better. Overall I'd rank him just outside the top 5.

As great as Chris Paul is now, he could have been the greatest point guard ever if he didn't get hurt. Watch his highlights pre-injury.

 

[MrMarcello]

Oscar and Maravich were too far back for me to have an opinion, but i'll fight anyone who claims stockton was better than CP3

I read a piece or two that mentions Doncic is a modern-day version of Maravich.

 

[RooneyLegend]

The Bucks need a new coach. What's the point of having a size advantage and never using it?

 

[RooneyLegend]

This is a pathetic level of basketball.

 

[ZDwyr]

Giannis is the most extreme example of a player with little BB IQ or skill but such a dominant athlete that it doesn't even matter.

 

[Sandyman]

This is a pathetic level of basketball.

At least it's close and not a blowout

 

[ZDwyr]

fecking KD