FA cup winner vs 4th place in a playoff - winner goes to CL qualifying round, loser to EL. Would mean an extra game of course, which conceivably could be very difficult to fit in if either or both teams are in a European final.
Neil Warnock wants CL place for FA Cup winner
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fecking goblin struggled to get out of the bed just for his side to get their asses whooped.
I dont see how it could be devalued any more than it is already. The name itself is a giveaway. A team finishing 3rd or 4th and even 2nd should theoretically be nowhere near a tournament for champions. But it is what it is and I dont see how subbing 4th place for a team that wins the national cup could devalue it again.
Why should achieving a CL place be a bigger reward than winning a trophy itself? Especially the biggest trophy that the likes of Cardiff City could ever hope to win.
Clubs like Cardiff, West Brom and the like have constantly turned up their noses at the cup and what do they have to show for it? Years of midtable mediocrity. Even if they don't win, a trip to Wembley for a cup semi-final or a final gives their fans something to look forward to and enjoy on the day rather than an end of season of game that means nothing.
Sadly, most clubs just care about the money from the Premier League, rather than an actual trophy and that mentality has seeped into the fanbase. There is no real difference between 10th and 15th place, except the money that goes straight into the owner's pocket. However winning the FA cup is something that fans and players alike can enjoy.
Clubs like Cardiff, West Brom and the like have constantly turned up their noses at the cup and what do they have to show for it? Years of midtable mediocrity. Even if they don't win, a trip to Wembley for a cup semi-final or a final gives their fans something to look forward to and enjoy on the day rather than an end of season of game that means nothing.
Sadly, most clubs just care about the money from the Premier League, rather than an actual trophy and that mentality has seeped into the fanbase. There is no real difference between 10th and 15th place, except the money that goes straight into the owner's pocket. However winning the FA cup is something that fans and players alike can enjoy.
Can you imagine the meltdown if our only chance to get into the CL one season was ruined by a poor refereeing decision in an FA Cup final?
Also, what happens if the CL place goes to fourth spot as some have suggested above (as the FA Cup winner has already qualified for the CL) and in fourth spot is Liverpool? As fans do we want to deny them a CL place or win the cup anyway?
Also, what happens if the CL place goes to fourth spot as some have suggested above (as the FA Cup winner has already qualified for the CL) and in fourth spot is Liverpool? As fans do we want to deny them a CL place or win the cup anyway?
More helpful would be a slide down the side of his bed the fat prick.
To be fair though, if the FA Cup winner gets a CL spot (or a playoff for it), I can see the 5th-8th place teams stepping up their game rather than treating the tournament like it's beneath them/intentionally crashing out to focus on the league. In this case, it'll be the Southamptons rather than the Cardiffs who'll play in the CL.
It is sort of a moot point since I think Wigan and Portsmouth would be the only clubs to win the CL and not qualify for the CL that season in recent history.
I fail to see 4rsenal and Wenger's logic that 4th place in the league is just like a trophy. I believe that the FA Cup deserves a lot more recognition. The UCL is called the Champions League, but there are not many champions, and perhaps only 1/4 of the teams are really champions. I do advocate the idea that the winner of the FA Cup gets a UCL place instead of some team in the 4th place. However, if the FA Cup already qualifies for UCL, the loser should not be given the UCL place and it should instead go to the team that finished 4th.
In fact, this will not affect UCL's status of being a competition for the elites. In fact, most domestic cups in recent years have been won by teams that already qualified for the UCL. Numbers in parenthesis denote the team's final league position for the season. Numbers in bold indicate that these teams did not qualify for UCL. Let's take a look.
DFB-Pokal: 2010/2011: Schalke (3) 2011/2012: Dortmund (2) 2012/2013: Bayern (1) 2013/2014: Bayern (1) 2014/2015: Wolfsburg (2) 2015/2016: Bayern (1)
Copa del Rey: 2010/2011: Real (1) 2011/2012: Barcelona (1) 2012/2013: Atletico (1) 2013/2014: Real (2) 2014/2015: Barcelona (1) 2015/2016: Barcelona (1)
Italian Cup: 2010/2011: Inter (2) 2011/2012: Napoli (5) 2012/2013: Lazio (6) 2013/2014: Napoli (3) 2014/2015: Juventus (1) 2015/2016: Juventus (1)
FA Cup: 2010/2011: Man City (3) 2011/2012: Chelsea (4) 2012/2013: Wigan (18) 2013/2014: 4rsenal (4) 2014/2015: 4rsenal (3) 2015/2016: Man Utd (5)
PSG has won the French Cup a number of times consecutively.
If the scenario from 2012/2013 season were to repeat when Wigan beat Man City, just like Leicester City, Wigan should be given a place in the UCL.
In fact, this will not affect UCL's status of being a competition for the elites. In fact, most domestic cups in recent years have been won by teams that already qualified for the UCL. Numbers in parenthesis denote the team's final league position for the season. Numbers in bold indicate that these teams did not qualify for UCL. Let's take a look.
DFB-Pokal: 2010/2011: Schalke (3) 2011/2012: Dortmund (2) 2012/2013: Bayern (1) 2013/2014: Bayern (1) 2014/2015: Wolfsburg (2) 2015/2016: Bayern (1)
Copa del Rey: 2010/2011: Real (1) 2011/2012: Barcelona (1) 2012/2013: Atletico (1) 2013/2014: Real (2) 2014/2015: Barcelona (1) 2015/2016: Barcelona (1)
Italian Cup: 2010/2011: Inter (2) 2011/2012: Napoli (5) 2012/2013: Lazio (6) 2013/2014: Napoli (3) 2014/2015: Juventus (1) 2015/2016: Juventus (1)
FA Cup: 2010/2011: Man City (3) 2011/2012: Chelsea (4) 2012/2013: Wigan (18) 2013/2014: 4rsenal (4) 2014/2015: 4rsenal (3) 2015/2016: Man Utd (5)
PSG has won the French Cup a number of times consecutively.
If the scenario from 2012/2013 season were to repeat when Wigan beat Man City, just like Leicester City, Wigan should be given a place in the UCL.
Following the current trend (assuming in this hypothetical scenario that we do) if the winner has already qualified then the spot would go to the runner up. I remember Millwall getting into the UEFA cup in 2004, Wigan in 2013 for example.
The entire argument is silly though. He's saying that we should allow the winners of the FA Cup into the Champions League to motivate the lower half of the PL, but surely they should be motivated by the EL? If the likes of Burnley and Hull feel they are too good for the EL, then I'd argue that the attitude problem of the lesser teams in the league is the problem, not the existing rewards of winning the FA Cup.
not really if a team from the championship or one who finished 17th in the PL can win the FA Cup, then in my opinion they shouldn't be warranted a CL slot as the team that finished 4th is a much better team. But I don't think a team that finished 4th should qualify either (although playing devil's advocate here as a team that finishes 4th in the PL at the current point in time is much stronger than a winner from Poland / Belgium / Luxembourg etc)
Agree with this. In fact I wouldn't even have an FA Cup win requiring Champions League qualification. I'd have the FA Cup winners automatically qualify, with 3rd place requiring the play-off.
In the last 20 years the only teams that stick out as winning the trophy who aren't one of the best 6-7 teams in the competition are Portsmouth and Wigan, so it's not as if the place would even semi-regularly be "wasted" on a team who'd get knocked out straight away. Maybe also with the added incentive of a CL place for the winner we'd see less occasions where teams made 5-10 changes from their strongest XI and consequently get knocked out.
For example when Wigan won the trophy: Arsenal were knocked out by Blackburn, Liverpool were knocked out by Oldham and Spurs were knocked out by Leeds. You'll always get these results happen on occasion but I imagine the players and managers would be far more motivated (I imagine we'll see the same for example in the Europa League this season - United certainly fielding a very strong team in each round and the players showing a real motivation to win).
In the last 20 years the only teams that stick out as winning the trophy who aren't one of the best 6-7 teams in the competition are Portsmouth and Wigan, so it's not as if the place would even semi-regularly be "wasted" on a team who'd get knocked out straight away. Maybe also with the added incentive of a CL place for the winner we'd see less occasions where teams made 5-10 changes from their strongest XI and consequently get knocked out.
For example when Wigan won the trophy: Arsenal were knocked out by Blackburn, Liverpool were knocked out by Oldham and Spurs were knocked out by Leeds. You'll always get these results happen on occasion but I imagine the players and managers would be far more motivated (I imagine we'll see the same for example in the Europa League this season - United certainly fielding a very strong team in each round and the players showing a real motivation to win).
Yes but this is a catch 22 situation, teams don't go full tilt for the FA Cup because there is no extra incentive outside of the cup itself. There's the potential for 10 extra games in an already busy season so you have the top teams fielding weakened teams in the earlier rounds as a calculated risk. Add a CL spot to the winner and teams will take it much more seriously.
In recent years you've had us, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Leicester play in the CL and all bar Leicester would see themselves as being good enough to be in the CL every season.
Usually I dont like to see change, but what used to be one of my favorite weekends in football, FA Cup 3rd round day. It is now clear something needs to be done. Attendances and interest in general are down significantly
I dont think a CL spot will ever happen. But I would like them to consider a revamp
For 3rd round put all 20 PL teams in one Pot and the 20 lowest ranked teams in another pot and draw them against eachother. The lower ranked teams would all be at home. Would be fantastic to see IMO
I dont think a CL spot will ever happen. But I would like them to consider a revamp
For 3rd round put all 20 PL teams in one Pot and the 20 lowest ranked teams in another pot and draw them against eachother. The lower ranked teams would all be at home. Would be fantastic to see IMO
In the past, when premier league clubs had fewer players, the big clubs did not really focus on the league cup. League cup was won by Leicester, Middlesbrough and Blackburn. These clubs also played in Europe as League cup champions at the expense of clubs that finished in 6th or 7th.
The FA cup winners already get a Uefa cup slot, that's more than enough reward for the lower ranked teams if they win it - just don't think a CL slot should be included
You're lucky because half way through the article he said "lem8sh is a cnut."
Warnock is pure Penguin from Batman.
So what Warnock is saying, and many seem to be in agreement with it, is that Wigan and Portsmouth deserved to represent the EPL more than Arsenal - in the most prestigious club tournament in Europe - the year after they got relegated and showed up as being one of the worst three teams in their division?
This is a bad idea. Current system rewards/awards CL spot to top 4 teams in the league over the course of the season. Proposed idea would allow a team to make CL spot on handful of matches. Suppose a team like Peterborough win the FA Cup. What the feck are they going to do in the CL? EL would be a better option.
Cardiff are another Portsmouth waiting to happen. I hope.
Really? So getting Cardiff into the Europa League isn't enough of an incentive for him...
The bastard!You're lucky because half way through the article he said "lem8sh is a cnut."
Nah.
Given the money that's in the PL at the moment and how much managers want to focus on the league and Europe we could maybe make the League Cup exclusive to non-PL teams to give someone from the football league the chance of winning a Europa Cup spot.
Given the money that's in the PL at the moment and how much managers want to focus on the league and Europe we could maybe make the League Cup exclusive to non-PL teams to give someone from the football league the chance of winning a Europa Cup spot.
Another Brexit voter confirmed. Shite idea. Domestic Cup always a terrible route for Europe qualification since the big teams can eliminate each other with a dark horse with enough luck from fixture list, home advantage, bad referee... can win it. These dark horse can't carry their luck onto next season and shite the bed in Europe and damage the league coefficient
With the league, the trial is over the whole season and reduce those luck factor to the limit. Leicester had done well in their CL group stage is evidence.
This idea helps with FA Cup attraction but can see British teams further slipped in Europe: CL & Europa League.
With the league, the trial is over the whole season and reduce those luck factor to the limit. Leicester had done well in their CL group stage is evidence.
This idea helps with FA Cup attraction but can see British teams further slipped in Europe: CL & Europa League.
Pointless. Teams that want to win the FA Cup and take it seriously like the Premier League's top teams will continue to win it like they always do, and the chance of a Champions League place will just further incentivize them to maintain that stranglehold on the competition. If you want to award it to the runners-up if the winner already has a Champions League place, that's still pointless, as we see a good variety of teams that get to the final with the incentive of winning the cup itself being enough.
Using Liverpool and Tottenham to emphasise the point is misleading. If they're knocked out early on, it doesn't mean that they don't value the cup, it means that they're taking a sensible risk. They'd love to win the FA Cup, but fielding full-strengths teams in the early founds can be detrimental to their chances in the Premier League. Should they navigate the early rounds and find themselves in a good position without having committed too much, they can then take advantage of that with better teams.
Using Liverpool and Tottenham to emphasise the point is misleading. If they're knocked out early on, it doesn't mean that they don't value the cup, it means that they're taking a sensible risk. They'd love to win the FA Cup, but fielding full-strengths teams in the early founds can be detrimental to their chances in the Premier League. Should they navigate the early rounds and find themselves in a good position without having committed too much, they can then take advantage of that with better teams.
Laughable suggestion
The coefficient is all but irrelevant at this point of time. With the new rules that we'll soon get you'd need France or some of the leagues even below to gain more points than England before anything would change. And that won't happen. England could not compete for a whole season on international level and still be comfortably ahead of France.
I mean in terms of being a champion. A team that won the FA cup would at least be a cup champion thus I'd consider it closer to a "champions only" competition. A team that finished 4th is just a good team that didn't win anything. Of course it can still be a better team. I see that you don't want either in the competition but of course that's not up to the english FA unlike the distribution of the teams they send.
You can't really compare results from the FA cup as it is now with what it would be after the change though. But I think that if such a rule change would be introduced it should come with something like two-legged ties (at least for quarters and semis).
It would necessitate every UEFA country instead of having 1-4 teams going into the CL as it is now according to their coefficient you would now need to add the winners of all their cup contests too. So a minimum of two clubs from each league. And that means this will never happen. Nor does it need to as they already get into the Europa League which is still a lot of money for a small club. I do agree that the league cup is pointless and can be scrapped which would elevate the FA Cup.
The CL is effectively the much maligned European league as it is with so many club sides being offered a place in it.
It's already diluted as it is due to this so adding in the national cup winners too would completely devalue the competition.
It's already diluted as it is due to this so adding in the national cup winners too would completely devalue the competition.