New Stadium or Revamp Old Trafford

Would you rather a new stadium or rebuild Old Trafford?

  • New stadium

    Votes: 630 49.1%
  • Rebuild Old Trafford

    Votes: 653 50.9%

  • Total voters
    1,283

Scanny

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I think the same. Keep the old stadium for youths and ladies football. This will promote ladies football like nothing else.

The aim should be to build the best football stadium in Europe. Best atmosphere, best fan experience, highest attendance.
Would love for the games that currently take place at LSV to eventually be played at OT.
 

stevoc

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The last time some links about the land were posted, I checked out the company it's leased from. It came up as its office bearers being the Glazers and Arnold, with Woodward having been replaced, and the address as OT. I could have misread things of course.
United leased it from MAT Transport and Davis Turner back in 2008 on a 65 year lease. I don't know if the ownership has changed hands since then.

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/security-fears-prompt-man-utd-to-buy-industrial-estate/
 

next_number_seven

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Yep thought Paddock was good on this. For anyone not able to watch, tl;dr was :

- new stadium
- 100k seats, a statement figure
- overwhelming players tunnel (history, trophies)
- destination for before and after games
- historical elements respectfully transposed
- OT downsized then updated to serve as women’s & academy ground (this one struck me as unlikely but not impossible)
Why do you think the final point is unlikely?

I'm not sure about 100k. 90k or 95k seems to be the maximum.
 

Heinzesight

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We should be building a new stadium whilst ensuring it meets a specific criteria. It should still resemble the look of Old Trafford but with modern and future thinking ideas. The brick dug outs for example should carry over etc etc. It should look like a sibling of Old Trafford. We should 100% not be doing an Arsenal, Spurs or West Ham where the original stadium is lost, it must have a connection.
Hadn’t even thought of the dugouts and how iconic they are. They have to be replicated in any stadium new or refurb. And for me, the new stadium has to echo the old brick throughout.
 

laughtersassassin

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The more I think about this the more sense a new stadium makes.

Sure it'll be sad to leave Old Trafford but the benefits out way the cons imo
 

FrankDrebin

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Is the internet accessibility at OT still crap ?
Because it was bad when I last went up.
 

CasaStreets

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Why do you think the final point is unlikely?

I'm not sure about 100k. 90k or 95k seems to be the maximum.
I'm not an architect or engineer so feel like I'm pretty ill-qualified to opine but I've always heard that type of restoration work is prohibitively expensive.

If OT were to be turned into a sort of 'smaller second ground', then I'd expect it would be a full knockdown & rebuild, not a restoration of any of OT's existing structure.

Edit: Also, why is 90/95k the maximum? Has there been any good analysis published on that?
 

next_number_seven

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I'm not an architect or engineer so feel like I'm pretty ill-qualified to opine but I've always heard that type of restoration work is prohibitively expensive.

If OT were to be turned into a sort of 'smaller second ground', then I'd expect it would be a full knockdown & rebuild, not a restoration of any of OT's existing structure.

Edit: Also, why is 90/95k the maximum? Has there been any good analysis published on that?
The easiest thing to do is keep the South Stand and knock everything else over time and replace with smaller stands.
The South Stand has all the things required keeping.

As regards 90k/95k that seems to be the natural limit for football stadiums for some reason.
American football stadiums go over 100,000 though.
The guy on the Stretford paddock was saying we'd be the only 5 figure attendance in the PL and Europe also, so it's kind of a status thing. Also he wants to sell cheap tickets to young people to improve atmosphere.

I'm actually not too fussy anyway.
As an Irish person Old Trafford is still magnificent to me but I've used to shitty Irish stadiums and haven't been to that many others.

I did notice last time I was over that the concourse in the south Stand was very old fashioned and tight.
I'm 5'10 though and didn't find the seating cramped.
 

LawCharltonBest

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If it's right next to the current one, and still has "Old Trafford" in the name - then I'll definitely opt for that

I'd be much more against the idea of a brand new stadium if it was somewhere else entirely
 

tomaldinho1

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Hadn’t even thought of the dugouts and how iconic they are. They have to be replicated in any stadium new or refurb. And for me, the new stadium has to echo the old brick throughout.
I really don't think this matters to be honest, as a lifelong United fan I can't say I've ever looked at dugouts as being iconic or important. The only thing I would say is a hard pass on any athletics track around the pitch, otherwise the architects can have at it.
 

next_number_seven

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I really don't think this matters to be honest, as a lifelong United fan I can't say I've ever looked at dugouts as being iconic or important. The only thing I would say is a hard pass on any athletics track around the pitch, otherwise the architects can have at it.
To me the dugouts are iconic. I'd like them replicated.
When were they put in?

I remember the Sheff Wed game in 93 they were there.
 

tomaldinho1

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To me the dugouts are iconic. I'd like them replicated.
When were they put in?

I remember the Sheff Wed game in 93 they were there.
Didn't the players used to come out of the tunnel underneath? I'd be for it staying in that case, so you see the players run out with their overlord managers staring out above them.
 

Scanny

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To me the dugouts are iconic. I'd like them replicated.
When were they put in?

I remember the Sheff Wed game in 93 they were there.
Sat right beside those dugouts for that game. The dancing was on the pitch right in front of me. Epic.
 

berbasloth4

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People on here getting on like that’s the same stadium since 1920s it has forever been revamped and that’s all it needs.
 

next_number_seven

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Sat right beside those dugouts for that game. The dancing was on the pitch right in front of me. Epic.
Brilliant memory to have. Iconic moment in United history. Two brilliant headers also.

I think I saw it live on tv but it might be a false memory I invented from watching clips on tv.
 

buchansleftleg

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For me having a new stadium with over 100k attendance is a great idea. Then rebuild Old Trafford as the academy / Women's team stadium in a style sympathetic to the old circular bowl from the 70's and 80's but with better seating and accessibility options. You'd probably end up with a possible attendance there of up 25-30K which would also work as a secondary venue for other events.

The new stadium should have cheap standing, proper seating and commercial and executive options so that all different types of fan can attend. Putting the 2 stadia in close proximity should allow you to create a great destination for fans to watch a women's team match, then use hospitality before going to the "main event " of a home game.

it shouldn't need to be a case of prawn sandwich brigade OR "chipsngravy" from Macari's - in an ideal world both should be available if that's what you feel like. We owe it to older fans, those with disabilities to be much more inclusive, so redeveloping Old Trafford as the only stadium just doesn't work for me, unless we are willing to endure 3-4 years of disruption as we build one stand at a time.

The other factor is that as a brownfield site we are highly likely to experience significant ground work delays because of WW2 bombs or archaeological discoveries. If those delay a new stadia then it wouldn't impact the club as deeply because we go on playing at Old Trafford.

A new stadia would reduce parking while it was being built, but it could be 85% built with minimal disruption. with maybe the last "corner" closest to Old Trafford being built towards the end of a season so that there are no safety concerns.

4 or 5 years of reduced crowds will seriously hit our operating profits - so for me new stadia is the only way to go.
 

next_number_seven

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For me having a new stadium with over 100k attendance is a great idea. Then rebuild Old Trafford as the academy / Women's team stadium in a style sympathetic to the old circular bowl from the 70's and 80's but with better seating and accessibility options. You'd probably end up with a possible attendance there of up 25-30K which would also work as a secondary venue for other events.

The new stadium should have cheap standing, proper seating and commercial and executive options so that all different types of fan can attend. Putting the 2 stadia in close proximity should allow you to create a great destination for fans to watch a women's team match, then use hospitality before going to the "main event " of a home game.

it shouldn't need to be a case of prawn sandwich brigade OR "chipsngravy" from Macari's - in an ideal world both should be available if that's what you feel like. We owe it to older fans, those with disabilities to be much more inclusive, so redeveloping Old Trafford as the only stadium just doesn't work for me, unless we are willing to endure 3-4 years of disruption as we build one stand at a time.

The other factor is that as a brownfield site we are highly likely to experience significant ground work delays because of WW2 bombs or archaeological discoveries. If those delay a new stadia then it wouldn't impact the club as deeply because we go on playing at Old Trafford.

A new stadia would reduce parking while it was being built, but it could be 85% built with minimal disruption. with maybe the last "corner" closest to Old Trafford being built towards the end of a season so that there are no safety concerns.

4 or 5 years of reduced crowds will seriously hit our operating profits - so for me new stadia is the only way to go.
It would do wonders for the attendance for ladies and youth football.

If a ladies/youth game was on before the men's team, it would get a huge crowd.

Also it's very attractive to signing youth/ladies players, saying you get to play on such a historic ground.
 

decorativeed

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It would do wonders for the attendance for ladies and youth football.

If a ladies/youth game was on before the men's team, it would get a huge crowd.

Also it's very attractive to signing youth/ladies players, saying you get to play on such a historic ground.
It'd do wonders for our women's team to just play somewhere where there was decent public transport. Leigh is an absolute pain in the arse to get to without a car, and not great with one.
 

Herman Toothrot

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Listening to Wayne Barton and Ed Barker on No Question About That, I'm really starting to lean toward new stadium.
 

Coops73

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Listening to Wayne Barton and Ed Barker on No Question About That, I'm really starting to lean toward new stadium.
Yeah I listened to that and I thought Wayne Barton made a really good case for a new ground and why we maybe shouldn’t get too hung up on keeping it exactly where it is now, like how moving the various statues, jimmy Murphy’s aside, shouldn’t be seen as some sort of sacrilegious event.
 

Herman Toothrot

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Yeah I listened to that and I thought Wayne Barton made a really good case for a new ground and why we maybe shouldn’t get too hung up on keeping it exactly where it is now, like how moving the various statues, jimmy Murphy’s aside, shouldn’t be seen as some sort of sacrilegious event.
Exactly. I think Ed's point about how The Emirates and similar stadium designs are so soulless was a great one too. They have to get the design right.

It's also such a good opportunity for Manchester as a city. I've said it time and time again, there is a huge opportunity to link up the Quays with Old Trafford and the canal with the city. Manchester is famous for it's ship canal, and it's making nothing of it. You should be able to walk to Old Trafford and the Quays along the water from town.

This could be massive for Manchester and connecting up the boroughs. Andy Burnham should stop beating on about Everton's perceived injustice and throw everything at this. Stop dicking around living out fantasy's of being a DJ and help deliver a game changer for the city.
 

Spoony

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Exactly. I think Ed's point about how The Emirates and similar stadium designs are so soulless was a great one too. They have to get the design right.

It's also such a good opportunity for Manchester as a city. I've said it time and time again, there is a huge opportunity to link up the Quays with Old Trafford and the canal with the city. Manchester is famous for it's ship canal, and it's making nothing of it. You should be able to walk to Old Trafford and the Quays along the water from town.

This could be massive for Manchester and connecting up the boroughs. Andy Burnham should stop beating on about Everton's perceived injustice and throw everything at this. Stop dicking around living out fantasy's of being a DJ and help deliver a game changer for the city.
It's a potential gold mine.
 

sparx99

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But Lucas Oil is inspired by a specific type of American building.
I like the Lucas Oil stadium but I would take it as inspiration in the sense that you could build with brick and incorporate elements from Old Trafford into any kind of new stadium.

Red brick is very much part of Manchester’s history, a new stadium roof could have a homage to the cantilevers on the current stadium.

The point about Lucas Oil is that you don’t have one choice (bland toilet bowl) when designing new.
 

decorativeed

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Exactly. I think Ed's point about how The Emirates and similar stadium designs are so soulless was a great one too. They have to get the design right.

It's also such a good opportunity for Manchester as a city. I've said it time and time again, there is a huge opportunity to link up the Quays with Old Trafford and the canal with the city. Manchester is famous for it's ship canal, and it's making nothing of it. You should be able to walk to Old Trafford and the Quays along the water from town.

This could be massive for Manchester and connecting up the boroughs. Andy Burnham should stop beating on about Everton's perceived injustice and throw everything at this. Stop dicking around living out fantasy's of being a DJ and help deliver a game changer for the city.
For a long time you could, but the construction companies building along there keep throwing up barriers. Last time I walked down there (a couple of years back), I got just past pomona and had to climb over a wall to get back onto the footpath otherwise I'd have had to walk back the way I'd come.
 
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neon_badger

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I like the Lucas Oil stadium but I would take it as inspiration in the sense that you could build with brick and incorporate elements from Old Trafford into any kind of new stadium.

Red brick is very much part of Manchester’s history, a new stadium roof could have a homage to the cantilevers on the current stadium.

The point about Lucas Oil is that you don’t have one choice (bland toilet bowl) when designing new.
Had to Google it, something like that would look amazing, particularly with Manchesters industrial heritage.
 

lex talionis

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Perhaps mate but my only point was you don't build a new stadium and that's the stadium infrastructure projects put to bed for 50+ years.
Very true. The work of maintaining a stadium never ends. But if built well, a stadium can go a very long time without needing expensive renovations.

An example is Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles. It was built almost 70 years ago — hard to believe, I know — but has needed only cosmetic updates over the decades and nothing like a major overhaul yet is still one of the most glorious stadiums in North America.
 

BorisManUtd

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As a non-English United fan probably my favourite thing about Old Trafford and old football stadiums in England is how close the stands and fans are to the pitch. It adds to the excitement of the game and I love it so much more than the way some stadiums in Continental Europe were built.

I don't like Emirates or West Ham's new stadium much really. Tottenham stadium I do like but I'd want our new stadium to be better than any new built over last few decades, if it is to be built.

I'm sure there would be many benefits from building a new stadium but don't want Old Trafford to be taken down. Decrease its size but keep it as part of history and for women/youth games. Or at least make the new on the site of OT and make it have many Old Trafford features.

You can't live in the past but can't ignore it either. Old Trafford is far too important part of United's identity to (completely) lose it.
 

Redplane

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I think one thing people seem to forget when saying they want the new to mimick the old or the new to incorporate the old that most of the old stadiums were built and expanded in several phases. Literally over several decades. Frankensteined together if you will. New stadiums are typically built with one final goal in mind, with occasionally pre planned expansion opportunities like the Emptyhad.

From a construction and probably financial perspective it likely makes little sense to either copy or rebuild something that was never a cohesive design to begin with. I get it - it adds charm - but unless we do an Anfield - does it make sense try and copy the existing version?
 

SouthMancRed

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United leased it from MAT Transport and Davis Turner back in 2008 on a 65 year lease. I don't know if the ownership has changed hands since then.

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/security-fears-prompt-man-utd-to-buy-industrial-estate/
Found it. I looked through your previous post -

I was interested so did a bit of digging into this, the lease is long indeed, it lasts until 2071. But interestingly it's seems like it's actually United that are leasing the land. If I'm reading the document below correctly then United don't even own the land. It's on page 55/56 of this document.

https://ir.manutd.com/~/media/Files/M/Manutd-IR/documents/2021-mu-plc-form-20-f.pdf

So if I'm right and the club are only leasing the land then I don’t think there'll be a multi billion pound stadium being built on part of it any time soon.


As you say, on Page 56 it says -
Manchester International Freight Terminal, Westinghouse Road Trafford Park, Manchester . . . . . Investment properties Leased (through March 2071) 107,000
Footnote - The above properties are owned or leased by Manchester United Football Club Limited, apart from Castlemore Retail Park and Manchester International Freight Terminal which are owned or leased by Alderley Urban Investments Limited.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03132053
Alderley Urban Investments Limited. Nature of business: 68100 - Buying and selling of own real estate
Directors - Glazers and others

From the quick look I had I took it that because Alderley were 'buyers and sellers of own real estate' that they actually owned the land, they hadn't leased it. I may well have jumped to conclusions using the little bit of knowledge principle though as it's not my area of expertise. (I do have one, honest.)
 

Steve Bruce

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Watched a video of the bernabeu (sp?) what a great bit of design and engineering.


I'd love united to have this ambition and will to stay at old Trafford