New Stadium or Revamp Old Trafford

[Sandikan]

Big soulless identikit new ground please that takes 5 years to build.
Whilst we play at Wembley which seriously helps us southern fans.

Am I doing it right?

 

[Redplane]

A rebuild/renovation sounds great but financially and operationally it probably makes little sense. Only a full on tear down of entire stands might make sense. You're not gonna fix the layout of corridors, concessions etc well by trying to just reconfigure what is already there.
If they wanted to keep it in the same spot they could take the Spuds approach when constructing it. At least on the west side (?). There clearly isn't the space though to do a full on stripping of and expanding of the existing face and roof like a Bernabeu. Then again, it seems like Anfield had some similar constraints and they were able to make it work.

I hate the soulless Spurs/Arse, you name it design language of stadiums these days. If United builds new it should set a new standard.

Whatever happens: every month wasted on committing to upgrading facilities is a blemish on the club imho.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

Neither a rebuild nor a new stadium elsewhere. Just redevelop the current stadium.

Correct. It won't be easy, but it can be done. It can also be approached bit-by-bit and eliminates the problem of where we play.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Big soulless identikit new ground please that takes 5 years to build.
Whilst we play at Wembley which seriously helps us southern fans.

Am I doing it right?

We should never have left Bank Street.

 

[tentan]

New stadium. Build it there.

 

[K Stand Knut]

New stadium. Build it there.

I see a slight issue with the smaller stadium that can’t even fit a football pitch in it!

 

[Plant0x84]

You lost so much of your identity in the last decade. You can’t afford to lose Old Trafford.

Thank you for this post.

It’s a sad situation when our fan base have lost it so badly we need opposition fans to talk sense in to us.

 

[Dixieland Delight]

There's too much history there to throw away. I have no idea how to make it work, but we got a man on the moon, we should be able to make a football stadium bigger.

 

[tentan]

There's too much history there to throw away. I have no idea how to make it work, but we got a man on the moon, we should be able to make a football stadium bigger.

Well it hasn't happened since the 70s so maybe making a stadium bigger is pretty hard.

 

[norm87cro]

I really dont know what building a new stadium has to do with "moving foward" or not "clinging to the past" argument. The team is s... and that really isnt down to where we play.
Logistically speaking Old Trafford.is still huge and if the club can rebuild it from 75 000 to say 85 000 or more there is no need to invest.in a.brand new stadium

 

[El-Manos]

I'd personally go for the 'Madrid approach' so to speak.

 

[Victorian values]

I really dont know what building a new stadium has to do with "moving foward" or not "clinging to the past" argument. The team is s... and that really isnt down to where we play.
Logistically speaking Old Trafford.is still huge and if the club can rebuild it from 75 000 to say 85 000 or more there is no need to invest.in a.brand new stadium

Not sure where I read it, but apparently United's match day revenue per fan is one of the lowest in the Premier League and I feel fairly sure that if the Qutar bid is successful this would be something that they will be aiming to improve on drastically and the size of the concourses and hospitality options would be very limited without a very major revamp that could be significantly greater than building a new ground with "best in class" catering and a "fan park" to enhance the "match day experience", possibly with a 25,000 - 30,000 standing terrace being one goal with cheapish tickets to create the atmosphere and a range of corporate options above this and alongside the other parts of the ground.
(Thinking of a bar area open from noon for a 3pm kick-off to about 6pm, with burgers, chips, curry, pies etc for behind the goal, and a range of corporate lounges and private boxes from a pre-match buffet to 5 star banquet all priced accordingly

 

[tentan]

Dunno why so many people are moaning about a new soulless ground. Old trafford has been pretty dead and soulless for the past 10 years. It will be the same fans who attend the games right? So why not build a new modern stadium with maybe the same roof/rafter design OT currently has so we can keep that 'iconic' look.

 

[Fortitude]

Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern are supposed to be our peers. They are marching into the future without hesitation. What Madrid and Bayern have done is what we should be aspiring to do.

We're already the Blockbuster Video of football clubs with how we're run. It should not extend to our stadium in terms of modernisation. Stadiums have their runs before they are vastly improved or moved away from and ours is years past due.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

OK Old Trafford is in dire need of some attention, the roof leaks, the concourse area are far too small.
I have no idea how much a refurb would cost, 10-20-50 100m+ who knows, Spurs new stadium cost £1B !!!, costs now wuould be even higher, maybe closer to 2.
Where does the money come from ? Not the Glaziers that for certain, they dont care about the ground, thats obvious.
Now for the new or refurb question.
For me it has to be refurb, there is too much history in the ground to pull it down, I know some dont agree and will say its only a ground but its not.
Old Trafford IS Man United, a new ground would not have that history

 

[lex talionis]

History will never be forgotten. If it's not feasible to renovate, then rebuild.

 

[MDFC Manager]

OK Old Trafford is in dire need of some attention, the roof leaks, the concourse area are far too small.
I have no idea how much a refurb would cost, 10-20-50 100m+ who knows, Spurs new stadium cost £1B !!!, costs now wuould be even higher, maybe closer to 2.
Where does the money come from ? Not the Glaziers that for certain, they dont care about the ground, thats obvious.
Now for the new or refurb question.
For me it has to be refurb, there is too much history in the ground to pull it down, I know some dont agree and will say its only a ground but its not.
Old Trafford IS Man United, a new ground would not have that history

Makes sense given everything good about the club is also historical now.

 

[Dan_F]

Not sure where I read it, but apparently United's match day revenue per fan is one of the lowest in the Premier League and I feel fairly sure that if the Qutar bid is successful this would be something that they will be aiming to improve on drastically and the size of the concourses and hospitality options would be very limited without a very major revamp that could be significantly greater than building a new ground with "best in class" catering and a "fan park" to enhance the "match day experience", possibly with a 25,000 - 30,000 standing terrace being one goal with cheapish tickets to create the atmosphere and a range of corporate options above this and alongside the other parts of the ground.
(Thinking of a bar area open from noon for a 3pm kick-off to about 6pm, with burgers, chips, curry, pies etc for behind the goal, and a range of corporate lounges and private boxes from a pre-match buffet to 5 star banquet all priced accordingly

That’s completely wrong. Like so wrong it hurts my head. Even if grounds like Craven Cottage, turf moor, Villa Park, Amex, Selhurst (I could keep going) somehow had extra hospitality compared to OT (they don’t). It’s not going to account for 40,000 extra tickets.

Also remember that clubs with new stadiums are going to be an absolute rip off for fans. Ticket prices for Arsenal/Spurs are probably close to double United’s, along with food and drink being the same.

 

[Victorian values]

That’s completely wrong. Like so wrong it hurts my head. Even if grounds like Craven Cottage, turf moor, Villa Park, Amex, Selhurst (I could keep going) somehow had extra hospitality compared to OT (they don’t). It’s not going to account for 40,000 extra tickets.

Also remember that clubs with new stadiums are going to be an absolute rip off for fans. Ticket prices for Arsenal/Spurs are probably close to double United’s, along with food and drink being the same.

If you read my post, it states matchday revenue PER FAN, meaning that the matchday spend for each ticket sold, not overall matchday revenue.
The cost of living and wages in London is significantly higher than the North West and wages are a lot higher as well, so the average Spurs, Gooneror Chelsea fan etc will be able to afford more than the Average United, City or Everton fan for the match ticket or season ticket.....however, if designed correctly, a large terrace - safe standing- rail seats area can keep prices of match tickets affordable for the current fan from Moston, Salford, Gorton etc, with the "fan park" boosting the "spend per ticket" on beer, pies etc, while the corporate lounges on site, can have a sliding scale from pre-match self service buffet and programme for £100 up to five course banquet for £500 in a private box with complimentary bar and table service
The corporate lounges can then be used during the week for companies to hire for training courses, seminars etc meaning that the ground is in use nearly everyday and not just matchday

 

[Champ]

By wanting to have concourses, food outlets, bars etc in your ground, the footprint will have to be enormous.
Look at Spurs' ground compared to WHL, yes it's close to double the capacity but it absolutely dwarfs WHL in terms of physical size it takes up.

United will have a similar issue should they want to go down the same route,

 

[Dan_F]

If you read my post, it states matchday revenue PER FAN, meaning that the matchday spend for each ticket sold, not overall matchday revenue.
The cost of living and wages in London is significantly higher than the North West and wages are a lot higher as well, so the average Spurs, Gooneror Chelsea fan etc will be able to afford more than the Average United, City or Everton fan for the match ticket or season ticket.....however, if designed correctly, a large terrace - safe standing- rail seats area can keep prices of match tickets affordable for the current fan from Moston, Salford, Gorton etc, with the "fan park" boosting the "spend per ticket" on beer, pies etc, while the corporate lounges on site, can have a sliding scale from pre-match self service buffet and programme for £100 up to five course banquet for £500 in a private box with complimentary bar and table service
The corporate lounges can then be used during the week for companies to hire for training courses, seminars etc meaning that the ground is in use nearly everyday and not just matchday

Sorry, that makes more sense. I’m sure this is the way things will go with a new stadium, whether it leads to a better experience for a fans I’m not sure.

United could instantly double the prices of alcohol from £3 to £6 for tomorrows game and make far more money, but there was plenty of work by fan groups to get that price down in the first place. I also dont think a lot of season ticket holders would really care about a “fan park”. People have their own pre match routines that they’ve had for decades, I don’t think they’d be caught dead in a “fan park” at Old Trafford pre game.

Hospitality is obviously an area that would naturally improve with a new stadium. I don’t really care too much about that, as long as they keep it out of the Stretford end and it doesn’t impact on pricing of regular seats.

As a final point, I personally have zero interest in the club making improvements on the basis of gaining more revenue. The extra money just gets spent on dividends or inflated wages for underperforming players. Anything that vastly increases ticket prices, food etc is a big red flag for me. The last thing this clubs needs is to lose whatever soul it has left by pricing even more people out.

 

[giggs-beckham]

Just build a new one with features that resemble OT, similar shape, red bricks and a sloping side of the pitch for the Di Maria's of the world.

 

[dalriada]

This subject has come up many times before and it's a matter of the heart versus the head. The heart says renovate or rebuild the existing stadium because it's so iconic. The head says, if you leave sentiment aside, you start again with a new stadium where you can build in modern facilities from scratch and optimise the commercial revenue, which realistically will be needed to deliver a return on the investment. I'd be inclined to go with the head - it depends on the cost, but usually it costs less to start again with a new build unless you're really committed to the importance of keeping the existing structure.

 

[Victorian values]

If you read my post, it states matchday revenue PER FAN, meaning that the matchday spend for each ticket sold, not overall matchday revenue.
The cost of living and wages in London is significantly higher than the North West and wages are a lot higher as well, so the average Spurs, Gooneror Chelsea fan etc will be able to afford more than the Average United, City or Everton fan for the match ticket or season ticket.....however, if designed correctly, a large terrace - safe standing- rail seats area can keep prices of match tickets affordable for the current fan from Moston, Salford, Gorton etc, with the "fan park" boosting the "spend per ticket" on beer, pies etc, while the corporate lounges on site, can have a sliding scale from pre-match self service buffet and programme for £100 up to five course banquet for £500 in a private box with complimentary bar and table service
The corporate lounges can then be used during the week for companies to hire for training courses, seminars etc meaning that the ground is in use nearly everyday and not just matchday

Sorry, that makes more sense. I’m sure this is the way things will go with a new stadium, whether it leads to a better experience for a fans I’m not sure.

United could instantly double the prices of alcohol from £3 to £6 for tomorrows game and make far more money, but there was plenty of work by fan groups to get that price down in the first place. I also dont think a lot of season ticket holders would really care about a “fan park”. People have their own pre match routines that they’ve had for decades, I don’t think they’d be caught dead in a “fan park” at Old Trafford pre game.

Hospitality is obviously an area that would naturally improve with a new stadium. I don’t really care too much about that, as long as they keep it out of the Stretford end and it doesn’t impact on pricing of regular seats.

As a final point, I personally have zero interest in the club making improvements on the basis of gaining more revenue. The extra money just gets spent on dividends or inflated wages for underperforming players. Anything that vastly increases ticket prices, food etc is a big red flag for me. The last thing this clubs needs is to lose whatever soul it has left by pricing even more people out.

Just to clarify, this isn't what I think SHOULD happen, but if the club gets new owners, they are going to be looking at ways to increase turnover, and will be seeing the bars round the ground packed, the traffic jams etc and think that if they offered a "better product" they could get supporters into the ground earlier and increase turnover (profit) this way.
Those that meet their mates in the city centre in the same pub every home game, or the pub beside the ground won't immediately change, but those who have flown in from Belfast or Dublin etc for their twice or three times a year trip, or the occasional fan from the North West who can't afford to go every game would try a fan park, and if priced right, with entertainment, reasonably priced food and drink make it part of their trips.
The 25,000 terrace behind one goal (or rail seating for European games) would be partial PR as cheaper tickets, but would also be the area for the more "passionate" fans to congregate, increasing the atmosphere, to benefit the team on the pitch, but also the "experience" for the corporates in other parts of the ground.

 

[Appletonred]

Brand new state of the art stadium called The New Trafford Stadium would be innovative and buries the old archaic past once and for all, not even sure about keeping the statues to be honest, the club needs fresh air, a clean break from the past and to evolve, in other words, to be forward thinking, innovative, and sorry, just like what has happened on the other side of Manchester in 2008.

 

[Spoony]

Brand new state of the art stadium called The New Trafford Stadium would be innovative and buries the old archaic past once and for all, not even sure about keeping the statues to be honest, the club needs fresh air, a clean break from the past and to evolve, in other words, to be forward thinking, innovative, and sorry, just like what has happened on the other side of Manchester in 2008.

 

[Sassy Colin]

If they'd chosen OT as one of the stadia for the next Euros, then the FA would be paying for the revamp.

 

[gaffs]

By wanting to have concourses, food outlets, bars etc in your ground, the footprint will have to be enormous.
Look at Spurs' ground compared to WHL, yes it's close to double the capacity but it absolutely dwarfs WHL in terms of physical size it takes up.

United will have a similar issue should they want to go down the same route,

Agree, but White Hart Lane was 36k. New Spurs stadium is 63k, so the footprint was always going to be much bigger.

Looking at the aerial shots, in order to build a new stadium, the club would need to purchase more land from the freight company on the Stretford End side.

Unless they knock down part of the Stretford End / NW corner and build into that space.

 

[Hester_manc]

In a time when very small clubs are bought up by very rich men, who then build new, new, new everywhere, I think it is important to hold on to the club's history. It is important to maintain that we are still a club with a rare credible history and have as much soul as a football club can have.

There are enough "indifferent, nouveau riche" clubs that smell far away of plastic. There is no reason for United to go that way, when we have this great history. And an important part of this story is Old Trafford. Therefore, we will not have a new stadium, but the old stadium must be renovated - as I see it.

 

[redcucumber]

Brand new state of the art stadium called The New Trafford Stadium would be innovative and buries the old archaic past once and for all, not even sure about keeping the statues to be honest, the club needs fresh air, a clean break from the past and to evolve, in other words, to be forward thinking, innovative, and sorry, just like what has happened on the other side of Manchester in 2008.

Yes, feck our 'old, archaic past'. What we need to do is be more like Man City. Zero history, zero identity, with all the success down to petrodollars and cheating. Sounds mega.

 

[Wheato]

Depends on the cost.

Lots of people, some who have never been to Old Trafford, believe that the ground is a 100 years old, but the truth is that 3 sides of the stadium were built in the late 90's.

The quadrants and main frontage by the Matt Busby statue were constructed in 2006. The main stand (Bobby Charlton stand) is the main problem. Not just for fans but by perception.

This is the stand where the toilets flood, the concourse is too small for people to stand at half-time, the press box and area is substandard. Players changing rooms are cramped, its all a bit shit and really small.

If they were able to expand this, with 3 tiers, add extra quadrants, a new roof for the entire stadium. The capacity would be over 90,000 and the facilities in the new stand would tick most boxes.

If that is cheaper than a full stadium re-build. I would go for that.

 

[Ian Reus]

If you read my post, it states matchday revenue PER FAN, meaning that the matchday spend for each ticket sold, not overall matchday revenue.
The cost of living and wages in London is significantly higher than the North West and wages are a lot higher as well, so the average Spurs, Gooneror Chelsea fan etc will be able to afford more than the Average United, City or Everton fan for the match ticket or season ticket.....however, if designed correctly, a large terrace - safe standing- rail seats area can keep prices of match tickets affordable for the current fan from Moston, Salford, Gorton etc, with the "fan park" boosting the "spend per ticket" on beer, pies etc, while the corporate lounges on site, can have a sliding scale from pre-match self service buffet and programme for £100 up to five course banquet for £500 in a private box with complimentary bar and table service
The corporate lounges can then be used during the week for companies to hire for training courses, seminars etc meaning that the ground is in use nearly everyday and not just matchday

Yeoooo
Another linfield fan.
Get them promoted.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Let's just build a soulless bowl to make weirdos with Qatar flags in their Twitter bios happy. They've had a tough week, bless 'em.

 

[Offside]

Mental people would actually want to get rid of the biggest and one of the most historic grounds in English club football to build some soulless American style wanky arena. feck modern football fans.

 

[Offside]

Brand new state of the art stadium called The New Trafford Stadium would be innovative and buries the old archaic past once and for all, not even sure about keeping the statues to be honest, the club needs fresh air, a clean break from the past and to evolve, in other words, to be forward thinking, innovative, and sorry, just like what has happened on the other side of Manchester in 2008.

Has to be a City WUM.

 

[Hal9000]

The current stadium is triggers broom, been updated and redeveloped so much but it's past it's sell by date.

Need a new stadium.

- Gets around the south stand logistics/development nightmare
- Where is there to play during a large scale redevelopment? Madrid/Barca even Spurs had different locations to play (i know spurs wasn't a rebuild)
- A redevelopment won't get around the cramped, squeezed in feeling you currently have at OT.
- More chances for safe standing
- The concourses at OT need to be gutted and redone anyway, to small, to cramped.
- Toilets need rebuilding, to small and leak.
- Press facilities are poor (apparently)
- Player facilities in the stadium are poor (apparently)
- Not sure what the exec sections are like but i assume they are outdated as well.

Can utilise the footprint of the old stadium for more revenue for the club.

 

[USREDEVIL]

It's part of Manchester culture and history. Let the Mancs decide.

 

[Hal9000]

Agree, but White Hart Lane was 36k. New Spurs stadium is 63k, so the footprint was always going to be much bigger.

Looking at the aerial shots, in order to build a new stadium, the club would need to purchase more land from the freight company on the Stretford End side.

Unless they knock down part of the Stretford End / NW corner and build into that space.

The club has all that land. Apart from hotel football.

 

[Appletonred]

Has to be a City WUM.

Nope, utd supporter since 1977 with an opinion....

 

[Flying high]

Brand new state of the art stadium called The New Trafford Stadium would be innovative and buries the old archaic past once and for all, not even sure about keeping the statues to be honest, the club needs fresh air, a clean break from the past and to evolve, in other words, to be forward thinking, innovative, and sorry, just like what has happened on the other side of Manchester in 2008.

Should we copy city's cheating too, or will just wiping our history be enough to win everything?

What we need is not to be run by greedy shitheads with no clue about football.