Agreed. Gill rode on SAF's success but failed at his own job.
Next permanent manager | Poll updated
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No offense meant, but all of the points holds good for ETH as well. Managing high profile players is a mute point anyway. Ronaldo and Pogba is leaving and we don't have any other high profile players.
Just so long as Bodgers name is never cropping up I'll be placated.
Does Poch still talk through a translator?
Yeh agree in the last part. Let’s say players who thinks they are high profile players. Many of them in United
Anyway.. I can’t find any arguments for why we should choose Ten Hag before Poch. Maybe many hope Ten Hag is the next big manager; the new Klopp or Pep. I‘m not saying he isn’t, but right now it’s gambling and wishful thinking.
I genuinely hope we're also considering Mancini and Enrique.
Both of them are clearly too good for international management. Enrique I'm guessing will need more time, not very dissimilar to ETH, as both these managers require their players to have a basic know how of how they want their teams to play, first touch close control short passing, something that will take time to instill in our players and academy, don't think we'll see any immediate success with either of them, but if they're the real deal, then we should be patient and let them assemble a squad according to their needs.
Mancini on the other hand, is more pragmatic and has the ability to get the best out of the players available to him, we've seen that with Italy, and even though he is capable of getting his team to play attractive and effective football, he might not have a ceiling as high as Enrique or ETH. I'm inclined towards Mancini as he not only has PL experience but has also won it, and I take seriously anyone who has won the PL when SAF was managing us.
Then there is Zidane, who is really hard to judge, 3 back to back CL trophies cannot be sheer luck, but neither can we overlook the strength of that squad and the fact that he was working with generational talents at their peaks
Poch would be my last option, as he's only got PL experience, no trophies to show for and his style of football is decent at best.
My order of preference would be like this, if we're looking at the long run.
Enrique
ETH Mancini
Zidane Poch
If we want immediate results
Mancini
Zidane Poch
ETH Enrique
Both of them are clearly too good for international management. Enrique I'm guessing will need more time, not very dissimilar to ETH, as both these managers require their players to have a basic know how of how they want their teams to play, first touch close control short passing, something that will take time to instill in our players and academy, don't think we'll see any immediate success with either of them, but if they're the real deal, then we should be patient and let them assemble a squad according to their needs.
Mancini on the other hand, is more pragmatic and has the ability to get the best out of the players available to him, we've seen that with Italy, and even though he is capable of getting his team to play attractive and effective football, he might not have a ceiling as high as Enrique or ETH. I'm inclined towards Mancini as he not only has PL experience but has also won it, and I take seriously anyone who has won the PL when SAF was managing us.
Then there is Zidane, who is really hard to judge, 3 back to back CL trophies cannot be sheer luck, but neither can we overlook the strength of that squad and the fact that he was working with generational talents at their peaks
Poch would be my last option, as he's only got PL experience, no trophies to show for and his style of football is decent at best.
My order of preference would be like this, if we're looking at the long run.
Enrique
ETH Mancini
Zidane Poch
If we want immediate results
Mancini
Zidane Poch
ETH Enrique
PSG will quickly change their tune after they get knocked out by Real Madrid tomorrow.
And I do wonder who are those other mysterious candidates that not even their names are being mentioned. Ancelotti, for sure. Enrique? Lopetegui? ...Rodgers?
And I do wonder who are those other mysterious candidates that not even their names are being mentioned. Ancelotti, for sure. Enrique? Lopetegui? ...Rodgers?
Hope it's Ten Hag but I can Saha's points.
Ten Hag could find it very difficult at United and perhaps lonely up hill battle. With Poch he's got the big club experience and has seemed very keen on United and PL. I can see him being a very strong character from the off. I'd say that rather than the cliché PL experience, I don't think that matters as has been pointed out but United job like Saha is saying is tough to carry.
I believe Ten Hag is just the man to bring a style and philosophy that could be really strong in 3 years.
Ten Hag could find it very difficult at United and perhaps lonely up hill battle. With Poch he's got the big club experience and has seemed very keen on United and PL. I can see him being a very strong character from the off. I'd say that rather than the cliché PL experience, I don't think that matters as has been pointed out but United job like Saha is saying is tough to carry.
I believe Ten Hag is just the man to bring a style and philosophy that could be really strong in 3 years.
For me EtH has the higher ceiling but a lower floor as well. Pochettino has nothing to offer that will be exceptional like I believe EtH possibly could but he also has a higher floor.
Ten hag cannot succeed with the current squad, its a toxic cesspool with subpar players. Unless the squad is gutted inside out expect ten hag to be sacked in two years time.
This is the problem. United have a squad full of players with the wrong mentality and a completely undeserved sense of their own importance and quality. The issue is that their salaries and treatment backs up their ideas. All of the best managers have squads full of talent but also full of players who would run through walls for their manager because they know that if they don't, they won't get played and they will waste years of their career not being part of a team that is winning trophies.
Its always easier to put in that work when you are competing but thats what makes the best players. The ones that put in that graft when they aren't already on the brink of something great.
I reckon that you could half our players salaries and not many people would say they were overpaid in most cases.
This is going to take years to sort out with a manager who has complete control over who stays and who goes and we need to fix so many cultural issues around the club. The mediocrity in every area is just astounding. We are a legacy brand now. Riding on our good will and reputation while other more modern companies eat our lunch.
Overpaid and underperforming squad.
Awful management structure
Wasting money left, right and centre
Facilities need massive investment
Whole club needs modernising.
i'd go one step further. If Ten Hag and Ralf are not given free rein to do anything and everything, sell who they want, buy who they want, drop who they want, there is absolutely no reason to bring him in. This has to be Ten Hag's club, not the Glazers or Murtough or Richard Arnold's. Ten hag has to come in and be allowed to say "we are selling De Gea, Maguire, Pogba, Rashford because they don't fit my system". Ten Hag must be given the ability to strip Maguire of the Captaincy and send players to the Reserves no matter their name or clout.
If we are going to let Arnold dictate transfers, let the squad dictate playing time and effort, then we might as well get Poch or some other yes man. Ten Hag works because it's a Ten Hag club and a Ten Hag system. We are seeing the same shit EVERY SINGLE MANAGER, it's always the same. The squad tries for awhile, they either get bored or pissy and then its time to get the next manager sacked. It's the same every time and we need to shake things up in a massive way.
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I was going to say this. If the Glazers/Arnold/Woodward/Murtough try to micromanage the next manager, whomever he might be, then forget about any type of success.
Will the club change their old (unsuccessful) ways? I hope so but I wouldn’t bet on it.
This is never going to happen. Owners like a puppet, they are never going to relinquish power.
then there is no point getting ten hag.
Murtough need to be doing more to really change the football structure and culture of the club.
These things are still happenings under his charge:
1) Players bypass manager and speak to Murtough directly. Case in point, Lingard given extra holidays in mid season to clear his headspace.
2) Players leaks negative news to the press almost weekly. Case in point, even Neville and Keane know who are the players that leaked to the press but Murtough still haven't act on it decisively.
3) Appoint Rangnick as interim manager and consultant but didn't involve him in major football decision in the club. Case in point, Rangnick said it himself that the club didn't speak to him about new manager position. What's the plan for continuity?
4) The communication between different department are lacking. Case in point, Rangnick said himself that he was not sure of the roles of "consultancy" and also not clear on Fletcher actual roles.
5) Our recruitment didn't really improve much under him. Case in point, signing all the obvious expensive players. Ronaldo, Varane & Sancho. Ronaldo is worrying because he can't seem to fit the team. Varane is a bit injury prone. Only Sancho is doing all right after half a season getting used to the league. He signs no one in January even though we need midfield reinforcement. The recruitment need to do better.
6) The appointment of manager is taking too long. Hope that it's all done behind the scene. We need to start planning for next season players recruitment and getting players up their fitness in preseason. Well run club usually able to announce next manager appointment early like Bayern Munich usually do.
Finally, hope he already has a set style of play to implement for the club long term.
These things are still happenings under his charge:
1) Players bypass manager and speak to Murtough directly. Case in point, Lingard given extra holidays in mid season to clear his headspace.
2) Players leaks negative news to the press almost weekly. Case in point, even Neville and Keane know who are the players that leaked to the press but Murtough still haven't act on it decisively.
3) Appoint Rangnick as interim manager and consultant but didn't involve him in major football decision in the club. Case in point, Rangnick said it himself that the club didn't speak to him about new manager position. What's the plan for continuity?
4) The communication between different department are lacking. Case in point, Rangnick said himself that he was not sure of the roles of "consultancy" and also not clear on Fletcher actual roles.
5) Our recruitment didn't really improve much under him. Case in point, signing all the obvious expensive players. Ronaldo, Varane & Sancho. Ronaldo is worrying because he can't seem to fit the team. Varane is a bit injury prone. Only Sancho is doing all right after half a season getting used to the league. He signs no one in January even though we need midfield reinforcement. The recruitment need to do better.
6) The appointment of manager is taking too long. Hope that it's all done behind the scene. We need to start planning for next season players recruitment and getting players up their fitness in preseason. Well run club usually able to announce next manager appointment early like Bayern Munich usually do.
Finally, hope he already has a set style of play to implement for the club long term.
There is a reason the club is dead set on Poch. Whatever your opinion on LvG and Mourinho is, they aren't ones to back down and both of them pointed out the same problems - club is not concerned with football. Ibrahimovic too pointed out the small-club mentality. I have not see anything to make me doubt their words. The board want a manager that can be... conditioned to agree with the current priorities of the club, amongst which football is not. Finance and PR come first and foremost. Can't really be any other way given the occupation of the owners. As long as the dividends flow...
Ten Hag will demand a change in priorities, which is obviously not happening anytime soon. He would be set up to fail the moment he sets foot here. Thus, Poch is the perfect fit. Won't demand much, won't rock the boat and won't change much.
1) How do you know this?
2) What the DOF completely undermines the manager by saying he's in charge not RR or any future managers the players wont then respect.
3) RR said he hadn't been ask, we haven't appointed anyone yet, until we sound people out how can we see if who he wants will join.
4) The consultancy will be sorted once the season ends and he can concentrate on other things, he can't concentrate on the future when he needs to concentrate on the present.
5) Do we know they were his signings? Sancho we have been chasing for 3 years, Varane is a high profile Woodward signing even though everyone know he is injury prone, Ronaldo was a panic buy.
6) Our two main targets are still in jobs, both currently still in the Champions league. They are focused on there current roles, if they rushed and appointed anyone you would be the first to kick off, of not having a clear plan and sounding out before appointing him.
Somebody needs to remind them that the glory years came because Alex Ferguson was allowed to get rid of certain players for the good of the club and attitude in the dressing room, was allowed to bring in the players he wanted to fit his style of play. It took time, but he tore the club apart from top to bottom, academy to first team. They need patience for once and stop going for the quick fix, past his time manager who might, but only might grab a trophy. There has to be a long term picture. He got rid of the drinking culture, some of this lot are drunk on their own importance.
1) It was well documented that RR didn't approve Lingard leave but someone upstairs. And the information was not passed down to RR. Hence, the confusion in the press conference.
2) It is clear that RR can't really control the players and all the leaks in the dressing room since he is only an interim manager. Someone higher need to set this straight with the players.
3) RR should be involved in every steps of the recruitment process in order to ensure continuity from the current style of play and the detail information he has on the players.
4) Fair enough. But to me, it doesn't sounds right to employ someone and then discuss about the roles later. As a big club we need to plan things in systematic way.
5) The players are signed under him as DOF.
6) As I said, I hope behind the scene we are already at much advanced stage rather than still shortlisting. At this stage, we should already know who is going to be appointed pending official announcement. Then we can start to plan behind the scene. This is what many big clubs do. For BM, they even announce Nagelsmann when was still in the job.
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I totally agree here; how far do we have to drop before the higher ups admit they've completely messed the club up? We are in this position because the structure is Sunday League, along with way too much penny pinching hidden behind "club legends FC".
If you hire some of the best in the world throughout the management structure, plan correctly and purchase with a particular playing style in mind you don't end up in the mess we are in.
Currently the only member of staff qualified to even be there would be Rangnick, yet he's in the wrong position; Arnold, Murtough, and Fletcher are all completely unqualified for the positions they're in at a club as big as us.
Beyond that you'd need to hire a genuine miracle worker as manager, it won't make a blind bit of difference when the hangers on above him constantly undermine him, and pay no heed to the managers input.
1) Could of been anyone but ok.
2) What's he gonna do come in and tell them all to respect RR like a headmaster telling of school kids playing up for the teacher? His job is to sell them in the summer.
3) We are only in provisional talks gathering information, we haven't even spoken directly to ETH, so what is there to ask RR his opinion on until we know the vision ETH wants compared to Poch? The consult him on whether it's feasible or will be successful.
4) Welcome to Manchester United
5) How do you know they were Murtough signings? he had only been in the job a few months, they could of been Ole & Woodward Targets?
6) Of course there will be discussions but can't exactly announce it as they are still employed, well that's Germany Leipzig appointed Nagelsmann a full season before he left Hoffenheim, Only club in England to do that was City with Pep.
I wish I could brief media outlets to show I’m doing the bare minimum of simply doing my job.
I'm becoming more and more convinced that we're going to get ETH because he's easier to get than Pochettino and it's going to end very badly. It's nothing against ETH's tactical ability, but I don't see the players respecting him. The stuff about him not speaking great English (I know he's learning) concerns me even more. I could see him facing many of the same problems Rangnick has. Imagine if Ajax go out of the CL to Benfica which could easily happen and he then comes in to manage Man Utd. I think this is a situation where the Utd fanbase is way off in their assessment of who the right appointment would be. Hoping I'm wrong if he does come in but I'm feeling increasingly uneasy about it as time goes on.
ETH has been to a Champions league semi-final more recently than we have.
Pogba & Ronaldo are the only two in this squad who have been in a Champions league final in this squad, and they are both off in the summer.
Why do the players have to respect him? if they don't they don't let the door hit you on the way out. Keane called it about them throwing managers under the bus, so why pander to the soft arses.
Bring in players who want to play for the manager & the club.
Sick of hearing about what the players want, hey deserve F all after there performance on Sunday.
2) So we do nothing? What about this happened again next season? How do we instill discipline and culture in the club. The board must take drastic action now whenever these things happened. The are many disciplinary action the board can take. The board need to be very clear who run the club and curb the players power.
3) As I said, RR should be involved in every steps of the recruitment process. He should get involved in coming out with the shortlist of suitable managers. Then narrow it down after initial contacts. Finally, make the decisions based on interviews with candidates.
5) Regardless, the players were signed under him as DOF who is in charge of recruitment to get players that can improve or suit the team style of play.
6) Hope that the process should be in much advanced stage for us to properly plan for next season. Really don't want to throw another season away if the board didn't plan well ahead again.
Your idea that you can shift 15/20 players all on huge wages from an already weak squad and immediately replace them all is a fairy tale. You're in cloud cookoo land. The manager has to work with the squad he inherrits. He can make some changes but it has to be gradual. We aren't signing more than 5 players next summer, most likely we won't even make 5. This is despite likely losing Pogba, Lingard, Cavani, VDB, Martial, Henderson at the very least as well as possibly others. Your comment "why do the players have to respect him" is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on here, and I've read some dumb stuff. No players will play for a manager they don't respect or believe in. If the manager we get can't earn the respect of the players in the first few months he has already failed.
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2) So what should the board do then? They created this culture, by keeping players at the club who don't want to be here from multiple managerial reigns.
3) Murtough can put a shortlist together & consult RR who to approach after preliminary talks, he prefers ETH according to reports & we are seemingly in discussion with his representatives, we weren't even looking past Poch before. That points to some influence.
5) Did he have the final say? Do you actually know or are you just throwing the blame at his door. Now that muppets gone we will see how good he is at his job as Arnold is apparently leaving the football to him.
6) It could very well be but they are not gonna leak it as Ajax & PSG are still competing and there season could fall apart if they knew there manager was leaving.
Not a Luckhurst article. Worth noting because MEN are also a really gossipy aggregator when a well known Journalist isn't involed.
Stop fecking about now and just get Ten Hag over the line. Keep it quiet if need be by all means but get the ball rolling on what players he wants in the summer. Forget Poch or anyone else. We can’t wait and we need to take a chance on someone else can grow their own footballing philosophy into this club. He’s done enough now with Ajax to hold clout in the dressing room at United, and if it works he’ll be our boss for years and years.
I agree with @WPMUFC as well, the incoming manager + RR should get carte blanche cleaning the decks.
If anything I wished the club would take a hard stance and start the cull early, no more 2nd/3rd chances. The reason I say early is so as to not hand over a poisoned chalice to the incoming manager, some decisions are obvious, maybe unpopular, but just have to be taken.
If anything I wished the club would take a hard stance and start the cull early, no more 2nd/3rd chances. The reason I say early is so as to not hand over a poisoned chalice to the incoming manager, some decisions are obvious, maybe unpopular, but just have to be taken.
The only blame i direct towards rangnick is that he is persisting with players who are having a shocker every game. At the minimum, maguire, awb, rashford and lingard shouldn't feature in any game for the rest of the season! If that entails even playing the kids then so be it.
I couldn't agree more.
At least with the kids, we'd be assessing their readiness, and maybe a few would be pleasant surprises that could save us money in the market if the new manager fancies them given they have been tried the league prior to his arrival.
Or maybe a few would prove they are not good enough in which case there is no need to hesitate in the market for a position.
A good example is Mebjri, we haven't a clue how he'd hold up in the league.
I keep hearing this and it bemuses me. Watching some of his interviews his English seems perfectly fine, no worse (or arguably better) than Pep when he first came to England. Funny enough the same concern doesn't seem to be shared for Poch who had to rely on an interpreter for the majority of his time in the Premier League.
As for players not respecting him thats on them, they seemingly want Poch (a man who hasn't won anything of note), presumably so they can have another Ole-like pushover of a manager who will let them be. With any luck half of the useless fecks will be shown the door over the course of the next season or two.
Just had a read of this, seems one to keep an eye out for. A quick search shows that a few have mentioned him on here already.
Matthias Jaissle.
https://www.goal.com/en/news/matthi...id-coach-learned-rangnick/blt9461c23605f7cc0f
Matthias Jaissle.
https://www.goal.com/en/news/matthi...id-coach-learned-rangnick/blt9461c23605f7cc0f
Listening to his past players talk about him and this seems the opposite of the truth.
Haha this, Eric Ten Haag is completely fluent in English
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