Next permanent manager | Poll updated

Who should be the next permanent manager?

  • Luis Enrique

    Votes: 113 7.4%
  • Erik ten Hag

    Votes: 1,300 84.7%
  • Julen Lopetegui

    Votes: 10 0.7%
  • Mauricio Pochettino

    Votes: 79 5.1%
  • None of the above

    Votes: 32 2.1%

  • Total voters
    1,534
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glazed

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It's not like its hiring sideshow bob? Poch is a very experienced and well thought of manager
That's not the point. The point is that he has shown a great willingness to compromise with commercial imperatives at Spurs and, in particular, at PSG. And doing that is overwhelmingly the main reason why we are sh#t.

You have to frame this whole decision around the competing narratives of commercial and football priorities to make sense of it. This is why LvG said what he said to ETH. Why Klopp never came.

Ask yourself which one of ETH and Poch would have countenanced the buying of Ronaldo, and you have your answer to the question of who is the right man for the job.
 

fezzerUTD

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If it’s ex-players/current pundits which have been asked their opinions, it’s obvious it’s so they can’t bitch and moan in the media because they are the ones which helped pick him.
 

Foxbatt

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The Pok is a good manager but ETH is the man we need to build this club from the bottom.
 

glazed

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The Pok is a good manager but ETH is the man we need to build this club from the bottom.
That will be incredibly expensive though. Do you know any Miami based business people totally uninterested in football who might have a problem with that?
 

Gorefest

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A summary of Ten Hag's playing style and philosophy:

* The fundamental, unyielding starting point is the strategic principle. This consists of a specific set of key playing patterns that are the core focus of training sessions and are drilled into the players to become automatic and intuitive.
* Team formations, types of players and playing styles are all subject to this strategic principle. If the game calls for a deep striker, he will play a deep striker. if it needs a false nine, he'll play a false nine. The central tenet is that it doesn't matter who you play in which position, as long as that player knows their patterns and the strategic principle. This allows for flexibility while still retaining a recognisable style that is intuitive for the players.
* Strategic principle key patterns breakdown:
i. Outnumber your opponent in midfield . This can be achieved either by moving up your central defender(s) (e.g. De Jong, Timber at Ajax), dropping back your central forward (e.g. Tadic) or have your wingers roam freely (e.g. Ziyech, Berghuis).
ii. Positional changes in attack. A central theme of the 'Dutch School' and long practiced at Ajax, but modernised by Ten Hag.
iii. Don't overuse the wide spaces. The old Ajax philosophy was to have the wingers glued to the sidelines in order to make rushes and provide crosses into the sixteen yard box. Under Ten Hag, the wingers and backs instead work in tandem. If one moves in, the other moves out, and vice versa. This creates a dilemma for the opposing defenders: do I stick with my opponent or do I guard the space?
iiii. Ball possession is a means, not a goal. Movement off the ball is just as important. The key is to identify promising movements by your forwards in order to launch them into free spaces behind the opponent's defence.
iiiii. During an attack all players, regardless of their 'normal' position on the pitch, must anticipate loss of possession. This translates into having 3-4 players behind the ball at all times, e.g. by having an attacker drop back when a defender is actively involved in an attack higher up the pitch.
iiiiii. Collective pressing on the opponent in all lines when loss of possession occurs.
iiiiiii. If pressing fails, focus on defending the sixteen yard box, even if this means falling back and opening up the wings. this ensures players are able to regroup quickly and cover key areas, to minimise counter attack success.
iiiiiiii. The central axis is key. force the opponents to use the wings and smother them there.
iiiiiiiii. Keep the distances between the lines short. When attacking, defenders are very high up the pitch. When defending, attackers are back in their own half. It allows for quick positional shifts and short, speedy passing.
iiiiiiiiii. Defensively, zonal marking is strongly preferred over man marking. This avoids players being dragged out of position.
* Preferred formation: 4-2-3-1.
* Ten Hag adjusts his playing style to best fit the specific skill sets of his players. As long as the players adhere to the strategic principles, the automatic patterns, there can be a lot of flexibility in playing style and it is easy to make adjustments to compensate for injuries or to fit in new players.
* Players must know exactly what to do when switching from attacking to defensive play during loss of possession. Key is to smother the lost ball early and cut off passing lines of play in order to win the ball back quickly.
* Most glaring defensive weakness: by pressurising the ball and forcing the opponent wide, Ten Hag's teams allow large open spaces to form in other areas of the pitch. If an opponent successfully avoids being smothered or cut off, suddenly the way to the goal is wide open.
 

Foxbatt

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Christ guys, how about we just support whoever is appointed unconditionally? Im not a big Poch fan but if he comes then so be it and we should get behind him and the lads.
This exactly why we are in this shitty place. When Moyes was appointed most people knew it's going to end up in disaster.
The Pok is not going to win us the PL or CL. Neither is ETH guaranteed to win. But what is guaranteed is that he would get us to play a certain style of attractive football. The Pok doesn't have that. We have seen in the PL and in the CL and the Ligue 1. He has the best three players in the world.
 

Berbasbullet

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This exactly why we are in this shitty place. When Moyes was appointed most people knew it's going to end up in disaster.
The Pok is not going to win us the PL or CL. Neither is ETH guaranteed to win. But what is guaranteed is that he would get us to play a certain style of attractive football. The Pok doesn't have that. We have seen in the PL and in the CL and the Ligue 1. He has the best three players in the world.
Well no we don't know that, he could come here and win us trophies, I don't think the reason were in a rancid place is because of the fans supporting who is in charge. Poch has played good football in his career too, and no he doesnt have the best 3 players lets be real.
 

glazed

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I don't think the reason were in a rancid place is because of the fans supporting who is in charge.
You're wrong that's exactly why we are in a bad place. If fans stopped tolerating the Glazers they would have to sell.
 

ayushreddevil9

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Right, and Ten Hag is seen as a messiah due to his one semifinal appearance with Ajax in 2019, where Pochettino kicked his ass to get to the final. Anyways. My point was about Pochettino being deemed a failure at PSG when he's only been there a season and a half and he's already taken them to a CL semi and is winning the league handily in his first full season
Not really. You clearly ignore why people want him in the first place and honestly I don't want to sound like a broken record in stating the reasons why we want him at the hotseat.

Also dont understand how taking a team full of superstars to a CL semi is now an achievement. Anything that happens in the French league is irrelevant. We all know how bad Poch was during his last 1.5 years at Spurs and how poor his record is against big teams. Do you wanna celebrate QF/SF appearances at utd?
 
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ayushreddevil9

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Christ guys, how about we just support whoever is appointed unconditionally? Im not a big Poch fan but if he comes then so be it and we should get behind him and the lads.
Absolutely not. Pochettino's horrible record against big teams speaks volumes and I won't be backing him from the moment performances or results start going south.

This could be our chance where we hire a manager that is ready for a step up but if we end up with someone like Pochettino who's well experienced in bottling things... :angel:
 

buchansleftleg

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If Pochettino gets the job we will get...

Stories that United "Finally" get their ideal candidate after years of trying.

Glowing pieces in the paper about "premier league proven" manager

Pictures of happy squad playing kickabout, laughing and joking saying that "breath of fresh air" in Carrington convinced a number of players to stay/ extend their contract.

A few wins against middling and lower sides but get trollied by top six clubs.

A longish run in a cup competition but get knocked out by hard working side.

Stories gradually build in squad that Pochettino has his favourites/ not giving some players a chance / frustration building at lack of clear training plan etc

Rumours build that the club have already decided to replace Pochettino at the end of the _______ season.

Twitter sources claim that United are struggling to convince ETH to leave his role at __________ because he feels the club do not have a clear strategy/ right structure for him to work under.
 

glazed

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By in charge I meant the manager and not the glazers.
So do I. If fans tolerated bad football as much as a bad movie or a bad burger then the Glazers would have quit long ago. Fan loyalty is the problem when they are loyal to a commercial brand only interested in their money.
 

Flexdegea

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No front runner yet? How fecking long are we going to drag this thing out? I know the seasons still going on but it’s easy enough to agree a deal behind the scenes and announce it at a later date. Surely after the first round of interviews they’d have a favourite.

Once you realise they making it up at this stage, it's easier to look past their crap
 

gorky_utd

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If Pochettino gets the job we will get...

Stories that United "Finally" get their ideal candidate after years of trying.

Glowing pieces in the paper about "premier league proven" manager

Pictures of happy squad playing kickabout, laughing and joking saying that "breath of fresh air" in Carrington convinced a number of players to stay/ extend their contract.

A few wins against middling and lower sides but get trollied by top six clubs.

A longish run in a cup competition but get knocked out by hard working side.

Stories gradually build in squad that Pochettino has his favourites/ not giving some players a chance / frustration building at lack of clear training plan etc

Rumours build that the club have already decided to replace Pochettino at the end of the _______ season.

Twitter sources claim that United are struggling to convince ETH to leave his role at __________ because he feels the club do not have a clear strategy/ right structure for him to work under.
Add some absolutely baffling transfers will happen with fat contracts for some mediocre players. Sometimes I just think if there are people in the board who are taking cut from agents to fund such questionable signings/ contract renewal etc.
 

Berbasbullet

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So do I. If fans tolerated bad football as much as a bad movie or a bad burger then the Glazers would have quit long ago. Fan loyalty is the problem when they are loyal to a commercial brand only interested in their money.
But we don't know what kind of burger Poch is yet, we can pretend we already know but we dont. Surely we have to try the burger before berating it? This burger has won titles in France and went to European burger finals. It might be the burger we need! :D
 

Rightnr

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But we don't know what kind of burger Poch is yet, we can pretend we already know but we dont. Surely we have to try the burger before berating it? This burger has won titles in France and went to European burger finals. It might be the burger we need! :D
Just like we didn't know what would happen with Moyes? Shall we appoint Rooney and see if that works out?
 

Foxbatt

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Well no we don't know that, he could come here and win us trophies, I don't think the reason were in a rancid place is because of the fans supporting who is in charge. Poch has played good football in his career too, and no he doesnt have the best 3 players lets be real.
He has played good football and so has Fat Sam. A front three of Messi, Neymar and Mbappe are the best three forwards in the world. You may say Harland as a CF but no team will replace these three players in their side if available. It is about your comment to fully support whoever who is the manager. .
Christ guys, how about we just support whoever is appointed unconditionally. Didn't you say that? Exactly the problem with Moyes. The Chosen One. That was the start.
 

United in sin

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Not really. You clearly ignore why people want him in the first place and honestly I don't want to sound like a broken record in stating the reasons why we want him at the hotseat.

Also dont understand how taking a team full of superstars to a CL semi is now an achievement. Anything that happens in the French league is irrelevant. We all know how bad Poch was during his last 1.5 years at Spurs and how poor his record is against big teams. Do you wanna celebrate QF/SF appearances at utd?
Without that CL run Ten Hag wouldn't even be in the conversation for the United job. Dont be disingenuous. His teams play lovely football but outside of that run he's done nothing to warrant even being looked at by a top club. It's been three years since that run and he remains at Ajax with the only official outside interest coming from Spurs after they sacked Mourinho. Why do you think that is?

Making the semi-finals of the CL is no mean feat no matter the squad. How many times did Fergie achieve it? How many times have City got to a semifinal since they won the blood money lottery?

Poch took Spurs to places they could've only dreamed of before he signed for them. His achievements at Spurs were against the odds and they merely regressed to the mean when he took them as far as he could. As far as PSG goes he's barely been there a second and the pitchforks are out and every little thing he does is over analyzed so as to fit the confirmation bias of his most fervent detractors. If Poch won the CL this season it would've been perceived as something achieved due to the 'superstars' at his disposal and individualism. After he wins the French league (he's been criticized for not winning anything) it will be seen as expected in the French farmers league.
 
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Rightnr

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Without that CL run Ten Hag wouldn't even be in the conversation for the United job. Dont be disingenuous. His teams play lovely football but outside of that run he's done nothing to warrant even being looked at by a top club. It's been three years since that run and he remains at Ajax with the only official outside interest coming from Spurs after they sacked Mourinho. Why do you think that is?

Making the semi-finals of the CL is no mean feat no matter the squad. How many times did Fergie achieve it? How many times have City got to a semifinal since they won the blood money lottery?

Poch took Spurs to places they could've only dreamed of before he signed for them. His achievements at Spurs were against the odds and they merely regressed to the mean when he took them as far as he could. As far as PSG goes he's barely been there a second and the pitchforks are out and every little thing he does is over analyzed so as to fit their confirmation bias. If Poch won the CL this season it would've been perceived as something achieved due to the 'superstars' at his disposal and individualism. After he wins the French league (he's been criticized for not winning anything) it will be seen as expected in the French farmers league.
Please tell us more and also explain why Guardiola said he can see him at City one day.

Stances like the above are literally either trolling or there just for the sake of controversy.

The last time I remember this forum being so united in wanting a manager was Klopp but we all knew he won't come due to the clown in charge. Now we have a legitimate chance of getting one of (if not THE) the hottest prospects in Europe and you think we should appoint a former Spurs bottle job who is on the verge of being sacked off by three of his last four clubs?

And finally here's the easiest argument to digest. Do you think PSG would be letting him go if he was such hot property? They're on the verge of a similar rebuild as us but are apparently happy to let the guy go? And this doesn't ring any alarm bells for you?
 

Berbasbullet

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He has played good football and so has Fat Sam. A front three of Messi, Neymar and Mbappe are the best three forwards in the world. You may say Harland as a CF but no team will replace these three players in their side if available. It is about your comment to fully support whoever who is the manager. .
Christ guys, how about we just support whoever is appointed unconditionally. Didn't you say that? Exactly the problem with Moyes. The Chosen One. That was the start.
Yes out of ETH or Poch.
Just like we didn't know what would happen with Moyes? Shall we appoint Rooney and see if that works out?
Yes that's exactly what I said. Lets appoint Rooney.
 

glazed

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But we don't know what kind of burger Poch is yet, we can pretend we already know but we dont. Surely we have to try the burger before berating it? This burger has won titles in France and went to European burger finals. It might be the burger we need! :D
The potential problem is not Poch - who I think may even be better than ETH as a coach - but the worry that he will tolerate the commerce first club structure. But of course he will get a chance from me. I will judge how much the club has seen the light on the transfer windows.

If we're being brutally honest, modern football is a money processing factory with some men kicking a ball around as a sideshow for the masses. Perhaps we should all just find a new sport to follow?
 
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Flexdegea

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Without that CL run Ten Hag wouldn't even be in the conversation for the United job. Dont be disingenuous. His teams play lovely football but outside of that run he's done nothing to warrant even being looked at by a top club. It's been three years since that run and he remains at Ajax with the only official outside interest coming from Spurs after they sacked Mourinho. Why do you think that is?

Making the semi-finals of the CL is no mean feat no matter the squad. How many times did Fergie achieve it? How many times have City got to a semifinal since they won the blood money lottery?

Poch took Spurs to places they could've only dreamed of before he signed for them. His achievements at Spurs were against the odds and they merely regressed to the mean when he took them as far as he could. As far as PSG goes he's barely been there a second and the pitchforks are out and every little thing he does is over analyzed so as to fit the confirmation bias of his most fervent detractors. If Poch won the CL this season it would've been perceived as something achieved due to the 'superstars' at his disposal and individualism. After he wins the French league (he's been criticized for not winning anything) it will be seen as expected in the French farmers league.


You getting more unhinged the more it seems Hag is getting closer to being appointed.


Don't even know what to say to your description of him..........as someone pointed out reads like trolling
 

macheda14

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Right, and Ten Hag is seen as a messiah due to his one semifinal appearance with Ajax in 2019, where Pochettino kicked his ass to get to the final. Anyways. My point was about Pochettino being deemed a failure at PSG when he's only been there a season and a half and he's already taken them to a CL semi and is winning the league handily in his first full season
You can’t accuse people of making the facts for their confirmation bias and then go and do the exact same thing. Yes he got them to a semi, but he also lost the league that season. This season he ‘is winning the league handily’ with a worse goal difference and fewer wins than any season they’ve won in recent years. The quality of the league and their closest rivals has decreased dramatically this season, not that PSG have improved dramatically - I mean they were unceremoniously kicked out of both cup competitions this season.

He has not had a team play consistently good football since January 2019. Ask any PSG fan if they rate him or the style of football he has gotten out of this side and you’ll find maybe 1 in 100. Yes Ten Hag’s limited successes make him a risk, but so do Poch’s. His record against the top 6 was beyond atrocious and whilst his style of football was a revelation when he started in the prem, the top teams have moved beyond that. If Poch were to face Pep and Klopp do you think he’d compete? Yes he finished above them once, but that was when they first entered the league. Will Ten Hag? Probably not, but you just can’t be quite as certain.
 

Laurencio

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The potential problem is not Poch - who I think may even be better than ETH as a coach - but the worry that he will tolerate the commerce first club structure. But of course he will get a chance from me. I will judge how much the club has seen the light on the transfer windows.

If we're being brutally honest, modern football is a money processing factory with some men kicking a ball around as a sideshow for the masses. Perhaps we should all just find a new sport to follow?
Any manager will have to work within those constraints, that's just how it works these days. There's no room for mangers not tolerating it. If Ten Hag gets hired he too will have to tolerate working under those constraints. There are no managers who can avoid this - the question as to whether this will be our guiding principle or simply an extension of building a successful side is down the board of directors, the ceo, and the dof. Not the manager.
 

glazed

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Any manager will have to work within those constraints, that's just how it works these days.
It's a question of degree. If you have a massive fan base that stays loyal irrespective of results then it makes perfect financial sense to not try and win anything since that is an unnecessary expense But you don't see Liverpool doing that.
 

R'hllor

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Here we go with unconditional support for new manager, how about feck no, enough is enough, support needs to be earned, that doesnt mean you should throw eggs and tomato at him.

How hard is to actually set certain standards, draw a line and watch his work, praise shit you like and criticize shit you dont, while hoping that he is the one reaching those standards.
 

CraftySoAndSo

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Please tell us more and also explain why Guardiola said he can see him at City one day.

Stances like the above are literally either trolling or there just for the sake of controversy.

The last time I remember this forum being so united in wanting a manager was Klopp but we all knew he won't come due to the clown in charge. Now we have a legitimate chance of getting one of (if not THE) the hottest prospects in Europe and you think we should appoint a former Spurs bottle job who is on the verge of being sacked off by three of his last four clubs?

And finally here's the easiest argument to digest. Do you think PSG would be letting him go if he was such hot property? They're on the verge of a similar rebuild as us but are apparently happy to let the guy go? And this doesn't ring any alarm bells for you?
I agree with this as it sounds like PSG fans collectively aren't too fond of him whereas they were more upset with Tuchel's sacking.
 

Berbasbullet

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Here we go with unconditional support for new manager, how about feck no, enough is enough, support needs to be earned, that doesnt mean you should throw eggs and tomato at him.

How hard is to actually set certain standards, draw a line and watch his work, praise shit you like and criticize shit you dont, while hoping that he is the one reaching those standards.
When I said that I obviously meant when he walks in the door, day 1 poch or ETH least we can do is show some support. No point having this negative and defeatist attitude of not supporting them.

When we're out of the title race in November then we can turn on him :lol: that's how I see it anyway. Appreciate different strokes for different folks.

I agree though criticise positive and negative for sure, but how about the default position be a little positive?
 

Rolaholic

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I agree with this as it sounds like PSG fans collectively aren't too fond of him whereas they were more upset with Tuchel's sacking.
PSG fans would legit rejoice over getting money for him :lol:

Seen many even floating Ten Hag as a replacement to go along with the usual suspects (Zidane, Conte)
 

Kaos

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Poch is getting no patience from me. All the pundits, ex players and media seem to praise his "PL experience", well fine, I should expect him to hit the ground running considering he knows our league so well. I'm not willing to give him a few years to prove to us he isn't some washed out bottler.
 

Mickeza

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It's a question of degree. If you have a massive fan base that stays loyal irrespective of results then it makes perfect financial sense to not try and win anything since that is an unnecessary expense But you don't see Liverpool doing that.
We’ve spent 1.4bn in 9 years. The second most on the planet. We have the highest wage bill on the planet. What exactly about this screams “not trying to win anything to save unnecessary expense”?
 

hellhunter

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We’ve spent 1.4bn in 9 years. The second most on the planet. We have the highest wage bill on the planet. What exactly about this screams “not trying to win anything to save unnecessary expense”?
Some people really struggling to realise this. Money spent is not and has never been the problem
 

CraftySoAndSo

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PSG fans would legit rejoice over getting money for him :lol:

Seen many even floating Ten Hag as a replacement to go along with the usual suspects (Zidane, Conte)
It might be easy labeling PSG fans as spoiled and demanding for wanting a manager who's so far clear at the top of the league sacked. But in reality you can count on 2 hands the amount of times they've genuinely played well this season and too many times played poor and only won by a late goal.
 

glazed

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We’ve spent 1.4bn in 9 years. The second most on the planet. We have the highest wage bill on the planet. What exactly about this screams “not trying to win anything to save unnecessary expense”?
Why is this so hard to understand? Doesn't one look at Ronaldo answer your question a million times better than yet another essay on commercial versus footballing priorities?

Some people really struggling to realise this. Money spent is not and has never been the problem
It's not how much. It's on what. And why.
 

Rolaholic

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Some people really struggling to realise this. Money spent is not and has never been the problem
In the same thought many also believe that it doesn't matter who we hire, we'll still be a mess.

That' always ignoring the fact that every other top side that's been in the same situation, years of mediocrity, in spite of vast resources only got out of the cycle after hitting on a good managerial hire. The recruitment subsequently improved as they only brought in players who fit that managers set style and vision.
 
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