Neymar

[Plastic Evra]

They are Manchester City, PSG, and Newcastle but on a national scale. Each time one of these teams has been nation-backed, many people have said they won't do this, they won't do that, but these clubs do. Money talks. It started with City won't be able to attract top talent because they had no history. Within a few years they were attracting top talent. Then it was they wouldn't be able to compete with the big European teams. They did. Then it was they wouldn't get the best manager, but they did. All the invisible barriers that have been put before them, they broke down. And what's more, they legitimized the concept of sports washing because now Newcastle are doing the same and no one really cares, and many people are actively rooting for them to succeed.

Sports washing works. We have seen it work on a club level, so why wouldn't it on a league level? If Saudi Arabia remains committed to growing its league by throwing money at it, then it is only a matter of time before they reach their goals. The only question is, what are the goals? To attract top talent in their prime? I think that will happen within years. To get the best managers? The same. What is the end goal here, to be accepted into the Champions League maybe? To drive a new Super League that would include Saudi teams? Who knows, but I think recent history shows that if the money is there the strategic goals will be met.

I think the end goal is probably to elevate their league up somewhere in the conversation along the top 10 Euro leagues. Sell highlights, broadcast rights of games, have results reported in the big Euro sport outlets. Highlights, I know Canal+ and Sky already paid for that... I think I'm seeing more Saudi highlights already (in the Ronaldo thread for instance) than I do Belgian football.

They already feature prominently in the Asian cups, they probably want more intercontinental games to play big Euro clubs. FIFA was always enamored with their club world cup idea though it never gained huge traction despite several editions. I'm sure there's a convergence of interests here.

And with UEFA trending towards a SuperLeague in all but name, they probably want to be there and a part of the conversation if it happens.

They probably want a piece of the pie of the international collective consciousness largely dominated by Euro clubs. I would imagine some audiences in the Gulf, North Africa (and beyond) or Asia could be receptive if the league gets really entertaining and attractive. They could also tap in some of the talent pools in Asia for players, or attract African talent.

 

[jadaba]

As well as by tainting his legacy through this perception of being unambitious and frankly a slight disappointment in the eyes of neutrals and regular football fans, I wonder who actually adores Neymar in the same way that Messi is cherished by so many of us, or how Ronaldo is admired, or the likes of Zidane, Ronaldinho, Figo, all the greats who weren't just lauded for their quality and accomplishments, but truly loved for what they did for the game. I don't know of anyone, and can't think of any particular fanbase that really adores him in that emotional kinda way?

PSG fans despise him, Barcelona fans are positive but I get a vibe of slight indifference towards him, and Brazilians would come closest but they have so many others to worship before him. I feel that his choices mean that his legacy will almost be emotionally shallow, for whatever that's worth.

 

[arthurka]

Best kept in these bubble money clubs a nothing player.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

As much as people seem to hate Neymar, you can't question his legacy in the game surely? He won far more than R9 at club level. Yeah he could have done so much more but so could many, many top players.

 

[TsuWave]

As much as people seem to hate Neymar, you can't question his legacy in the game surely? He won far more than R9 at club level. Yeah he could have done so much more but so could many, many top players.

Post above you says he's a nothing player. There are all kinds of horrible opinions here.

 

[Maluco]

No he did not. There was no desire to become a great of the game. His lifestyle choices cost him a lot. He should have done more at PSG. Over the same time frame, Mbappé played 100 more games and scored 100 more goals.

With that being said, farewell to a super talented artist.

He did. You must have never watched him early on in his career. I haven’t seen anyone like him since. He was prodigious and as talented as anyone playing football today. He was tenacious, hard working, had great vision, could score goals and his dribbling was second to no one.

He had the world at his feet and made bad choices. PSG are a mess and he just ended up being part of that mess.

 

[Plastic Evra]

As well as by tainting his legacy through this perception of being unambitious and frankly a slight disappointment in the eyes of neutrals and regular football fans, I wonder who actually adores Neymar in the same way that Messi is cherished by so many of us, or how Ronaldo is admired, or the likes of Zidane, Ronaldinho, Figo, all the greats who weren't just lauded for their quality and accomplishments, but truly loved for what they did for the game. I don't know of anyone, and can't think of any particular fanbase that really adores him in that emotional kinda way?

PSG fans despise him, Barcelona fans are positive but I get a vibe of slight indifference towards him, and Brazilians would come closest but they have so many others to worship before him. I feel that his choices mean that his legacy will almost be emotionally shallow, for whatever that's worth.

I know some PSG fans highly rate all he did in Paris before his first major injury, to them debatably the best to ever do it, above Ronnie, at Le Parc.
But yeah huge sympathy deficit. He never had the smile of Ronaldo, Ronnie or Fred.

 

[PieCrust]

As much as people seem to hate Neymar, you can't question his legacy in the game surely? He won far more than R9 at club level. Yeah he could have done so much more but so could many, many top players.

What legacy? He'll be known for leaving a Barcelona side because he didn't want to compete with Messi, also PSG $$$, and now after failing at the PSG project, left again for Saudi for $$$. He has no legacy. I don't blame him for cashing in, but because of it, he'll become a forgettable footballer.

I don't hold his international record against him as Brazil as a whole has been awful during his prime years.

 

[antk]

Neymar is below Ronaldinho for me.

Both won only 2 La Ligas and 1 CL. That's about the sum of it in Europe.

But Ronaldinho also got a World Cup. He'll be remembered. Neymar won't.

Ronaldinho got carried to his WC by an all-time all-star team while Neymar played his prime with the worst generation of Brazilian footballers in 30 years. And obviously he's been a lot more important to his NT than Ronaldinho ever was.

I don't think NT achievements are an argument for preferring Ronaldinho over Neymar.

 

[MrMarcello]

As much as people seem to hate Neymar, you can't question his legacy in the game surely? He won far more than R9 at club level. Yeah he could have done so much more but so could many, many top players.

R9 in today's era would have joined a super club winning everything in sight. He'd probably have been Benzema in that ridiculous Real side.

 

[Hanky panky]

Neymar is below Ronaldinho for me.

Of course he is. Ronaldinho will be remembered as a better player. And definitely more likeable. Ronaldinho at his peak was the best player in the world. For a few years. Neymar never was.

 

[Berbaclass]

Of course he is. Ronaldinho will be remembered as a better player. And definitely more likeable. Ronaldinho at his peak was the best player in the world. For a few years. Neymar never was.

Don't think so personally.

 

[antk]

Of course he is. Ronaldinho will be remembered as a better player. And definitely more likeable. Ronaldinho at his peak was the best player in the world. For a few years. Neymar never was.

Do you think Ronaldinho would have been the best player in the world at any point if his peak had happened in 2013-2016 rather than 2003-2006?

 

[Berbaclass]

Do you think Ronaldinho would have been the best player in the world at any point if his peak had happened in 2013-2016 rather than 2003-2006?

No. Neymar at his peak was better IMO.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Don't think so personally.

ha ha, kin ell.

No question he was.

 

[Berbaclass]

ha ha, kin ell.

No question he was.

I'd take Henry over him.

 

[Plastic Evra]

Unfair as it is, I reckon he'd be a lot more lauded if the NT did better. He was injured but that 7-1 destruction by Germany is gonna live in infamy for a long time. Dreadful years for Brazil.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I'd take Henry over him.

My lord man, he was absolutely head & shoulders above anything Henry ever showed for at least two seasons there.

He was unquestionably the best player on the planet.

 

[Berbaclass]

My lord man, he was absolutely head & shoulders above anything Henry ever showed for at least two seasons there.

He was unquestionably the best player on the planet.

In your opinion. I don't share it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

In your opinion. I don't share it.

Well clearly not just my opinion, hence his 2 World Player of the Year awards and his 2005 Ballon d’Or (with Henry in 4th place), but sure, you can have a wrong opinion if you like.

 

[Berbaclass]

Well clearly not just my opinion, hence his 2 World Player of the Year awards and his 2005 Ballon d’Or (with Henry in 4th place), but sure, you can have a wrong opinion if you like.

The Ballon d'Or

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The Ballon d'Or

Aye, there’s that, or Berbaclass from the caf.

 

[Berbaclass]

Aye, there’s that, or Berbaclass from the caf.

Saying he won the Ballon d'Or is meaningless and doesn't really make sense. Many many people didn't vote for Ronaldinho the year he won. They must be wrong too I assume.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Saying he won the Ballon d'Or is meaningless and doesn't really make sense. Many many people didn't vote for Ronaldinho the year he won. They must be wrong too I assume.

You said “it’s my opinion” and clearly it’s not just mine, but a vast majority of peoples, including the “experts”.
So in that sense it makes perfect sense.

 

[Berbaclass]

You said “it’s my opinion” and clearly it’s not just mine, but a vast majority of peoples, including the “experts”.
So in that sense it makes perfect sense.

You stated that it's unquestionable, which it clearly isn't.

 

[Devil You Know]

The Ballon d'Or is not a meaningful measure of anything. It's always been political. Barcelona and Real Madrid players will tend to win most of them because of the sheer number of Barcelona and Real Madrid fans in the footballing world.

The PL, especially, is handicapped when it comes to those kinds of individual awards. Even in years when there are English CL winners, players from these shores rarely have the hype and media connections to win the way the Spanish giants can't get their players to.

Henry was the best player in the world for at least 2 or 3 seasons, imo. So was Ronaldinho. Neymar was worse than both.

 

[antk]

Saying he won the Ballon d'Or is meaningless and doesn't really make sense. Many many people didn't vote for Ronaldinho the year he won. They must be wrong too I assume.

Just adding some context here - 33 out of 52 voters placed him first. 2 did not have him in their top 5.

 

[Berbaclass]

Just adding some context here - 33 out of 52 voters placed him first. 2 did not have him in their top 5.

Somebody also voted fecking Jamie Caragher the 3rd best player.

 

[Berbaclass]

The Ballon d'Or is not a meaningful measure of anything. It's always been political. Barcelona and Real Madrid players will tend to win most of them because of the sheer number of Barcelona and Real Madrid fans in the footballing world.

The PL, especially, is handicapped when it comes to those kinds of individual awards. Even in years when there are English CL winners, players from these shores rarely have the hype and media connections to win the way the Spanish giants can't get their players to.

Henry was the best player in the world for at least 2 or 3 seasons, imo. So was Ronaldinho. Neymar was worse than both.

Exactly

 

[lsd]

I never expected Mbappe to go to Saudia Arabia no matter how much money they threw at him.

Neymar though no surprise at all to see him going. By far the most unlikable player i can recall for how they behave in the field obviously.

A crying cheating diving selfish prick of a player who will be remembered as such.

A guy who singlehandedly make me root against Brazil when i had shown all my life as a Brazil fan.

I don't really like him i guess to sum up

 

[criticalanalysis]

Ronaldinho got carried to his WC by an all-time all-star team while Neymar played his prime with the worst generation of Brazilian footballers in 30 years. And obviously he's been a lot more important to his NT than Ronaldinho ever was.

I don't think NT achievements are an argument for preferring Ronaldinho over Neymar.

I was just about to post similar.

I'm not sure if my memory is right but I remembering 'feeling' that the 2014 Brazil team was really strong. It wasn't high on quality around like previous Brazil teams but under a talismanic Neymar and Silva, they were as good as any other team. Had it not been for the injury and suspension, they would have had every chance to beat Germany and set up a dream final against Argentina.

 

[tenhagsimp]

Whilst I don’t agree with the “it’s for passion and not money” thinking, it clearly is and they’re doing it for two reason only, short careers, some shorter than others via injuries etc and the tax on the PL is huge. You will see more and more under 30’s go there over the next few years then the discussion of a Super League will hot up again

Cant understand why we vilify these players who wanted to secure the best financial position for their families. If someone offered anyone here 10x their current income to move to Gambia/PNG/whatever random country you never heard while doing LESS work overall I bet everyone will take it. Especially with the short career in football where a random freak injury can stop you from getting another paycheck cause you suddenly just get "washed out"

 

[Red Stone]

Neymar is below Ronaldinho for me.

Both won only 2 La Ligas and 1 CL. That's about the sum of it in Europe.

But Ronaldinho also got a World Cup. He'll be remembered. Neymar won't.

Ronaldinho scores a lot of points among people who were young when he was in his prime. I regard him as a legend for how he managed to combine dominance with being by far the most entertaining footballer to watch when I was in my early teens and had more blind love for the game than in my more cynical older days. Neymar was never the best player in the world like Dinho was, but he might be held in similar regard among people who are in their late teens or early 20s now and who grew up watching Neymar school defenders for fun.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

The Ballon d'Or is not a meaningful measure of anything. It's always been political. Barcelona and Real Madrid players will tend to win most of them because of the sheer number of Barcelona and Real Madrid fans in the footballing world.

The PL, especially, is handicapped when it comes to those kinds of individual awards. Even in years when there are English CL winners, players from these shores rarely have the hype and media connections to win the way the Spanish giants can't get their players to.

Henry was the best player in the world for at least 2 or 3 seasons, imo. So was Ronaldinho. Neymar was worse than both.

Pretty bold claims.

 

[Malkovich]

Confirmed to Al-Hilal. No loan to Barcelona.

 

[RedRonaldo]

You've got to tip your hat off to Cristiano though. He isn't as naturally gifted (he is talented but not one of those generational talents like Messi or even Neymar) but his determination to maximise on what he has and more, and work ethic have resulted him in being considered one of the greatest ever. Neymar is the opposite. Supremely talented but likely to be forgotten in years to come unless he wins the world cup as the main protagonist.

Well they did start out about same level of talent at the beginning. It just that Ronaldo went on to switch to goalscoring mode more and more as his career progress, while Neymar is focusing on his dribbling/playmaking game more. Well but I know that’s not something you’d agree on as you always want to portray Ronaldo to be less of a talent, which is not entirely wrong considering how their career had progressed over the years.

 

[RedRonaldo]

My lord man, he was absolutely head & shoulders above anything Henry ever showed for at least two seasons there.

He was unquestionably the best player on the planet.

To be fair Henry deserved to win at least one Ballon D’or during his peak. The biggest difference there is probably Barca doing better than Arsenal in CL. But during that era I still rate Ronaldinho as the best player in the world, he simply peaked “freestyle football” in competitive level, and had won everything he could for a short period of time.

 

[Kammy26]

Ronaldinho got carried to his WC by an all-time all-star team while Neymar played his prime with the worst generation of Brazilian footballers in 30 years. And obviously he's been a lot more important to his NT than Ronaldinho ever was.

I don't think NT achievements are an argument for preferring Ronaldinho over Neymar.

Carried?

Did you watch WC 2002? Ronaldinho was arguably Brazils best player up to the quarter finals. Also included in the team of the tournament.

 

[mshnsh]

Well they did start out about same level of talent at the beginning. It just that Ronaldo went on to switch to goalscoring mode more and more as his career progress, while Neymar is focusing on his dribbling/playmaking game more. Well but I know that’s not something you’d agree on as you always want to portray Ronaldo to be less of a talent, which is not entirely wrong considering how their career had progressed over the years.

Not really. Neymar is your typical gifted Brazilian street footballer. If you consider Vinicius to be talented, Neymar's talent is on another level.

When Cristiano was a teenager, his talent was considered at a similar level to other teen footballers like Quaresma, Robben etc. On the other hand, Neymar was considered a "generational talent".

I was a huge fan of Cristiano during his first stint here at United even when he got alot of stick for his performances. Him cutting out the tricks was best for him because they were pointless and looked very mechanical/rehearsed. He often lost the ball and slowed down the play. Than, when it comes to playmaking, you can say that Ronaldo discovered and played to his strength that is goalscoring because while he could produce a good pass at times, he obviously lacked a bit of that vision and ability to execute some of the passes.

On the other side, Neymar seamlessly integrated his superior ball skills into his overall game similar to Ronaldinho from a very early age. He
could do impossible dribbles and great passes that very few I've seen in the history of the game do. But, hus lifestyle, injuries, poor choices, on the pitch shenanigans means he has come this far only based on talent.

 

[Reapersoul20]

There is no cogent argument to pick neymar over ronaldinho