NHS faces biggest financial crisis 'in a generation'

[Stanley Road]

No it isn't. The NHS has plenty of systemic problems, and will likely continue to face major crises which could worsen, but this idea that it's 'failing' is nonsense. It's still a fantastic health system that we're lucky to have, which has done an enormous amount of good for Britain, and which is something I'd argue we should be extremely proud of as a nation.

The concept yes, the reality no.

Compared to all health systems ive used in europe and outside, it's shocking.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

If anyone has a vested interest in the NHS then I implore you to watch all of the "Hospital" series on BBC 2 currently.

So many emotions while watching it.

For those unable to access iplayer then a channel called UK TV Shows on YouTube has you covered.

 

[Stanley Road]

I watch with the mrs, she is a nurse and has never worked under such conditions. Its a great doc yet depressing at the same time.

In fact it disgusts me

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

We need to take politics out of the NHS and set up a Royal Commission | Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/02/11/need-take-politics-nhs-set-royal-commission/


Below the above article there was also a letter claiming that private sources of funding are proportionately less than both the OECD average, as well as places France and Germany. I was a bit sceptical, but the OECD data from 2015 suggests that it is indeed the case.

All those who watched QT on Thursday, are probably inclined strongly toward the idea of a Royal Commission though. MPs find it very difficult to put their weapons down when discussing healthcare.

 

[sun_tzu]

MPs find it very difficult to put their weapons down when discussing healthcare.

Especially when it has been policy to weaponise the NHS
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...HS-in-secret-meeting-with-BBC-executives.html

 

[Mozza]

We need to take politics out of the NHS and set up a Royal Commission | Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/02/11/need-take-politics-nhs-set-royal-commission/


Below the above article there was also a letter claiming that private sources of funding are proportionately less than both the OECD average, as well as places France and Germany. I was a bit sceptical, but the OECD data from 2015 suggests that it is indeed the case.

All those who watched QT on Thursday, are probably inclined strongly toward the idea of a Royal Commission though. MPs find it very difficult to put their weapons down when discussing healthcare.

No, this is politicians way of abdicating responsibility for the NHS. This way they can de-fund and destroy and blame it on the Royal commission. You've just had Jeremy cnut having the cheek to say performance is unacceptable when he's the fecker in charge

 

[Stanley Road]

I remember my dad needing an op years ago, doctor said he could do it in 3 months.

My old man asked how long if i use my health insurance? "I'll do it tomorrow" said the doc.

That tells you all you need to know about good healthcare.

 

[Mozza]

I remember my dad needing an op years ago, doctor said he could do it in 3 months.

My old man asked how long if i use my health insurance? "I'll do it tomorrow" said the doc.

That tells you all you need to know about good healthcare.

It tells you if you have money you can get things quicker, it tells you nothing about health care

 

[Stanley Road]

It tells you if you have money you can get things quicker, it tells you nothing about health care

If you pay for it you get it. Via insurance or tax, people in the uk dont pay enough and thats a fact. That and reorganisation.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

No, this is politicians way of abdicating responsibility for the NHS. This way they can de-fund and destroy and blame it on the Royal commission. You've just had Jeremy cnut having the cheek to say performance is unacceptable when he's the fecker in charge

Do you seriously believe that a Royal Commission would recommend cuts to the budget or outright privatisation?

I think some people are simply too fond of the political tribalism that predominates whenever the matter is raised. An RC might actually lay the groundwork for a broad strategy, as opposed to policies/reforms determined by the hue of a party's rosette.

 

[Dobba]

We send the EU £350m a week. Let's fund a Royal Commission instead.

 

[Mozza]

Do you seriously believe that a Royal Commission would recommend cuts to the budget or outright privatisation?

I think some people are simply too fond of the political tribalism that predominates whenever the matter is raised. An RC might actually lay the groundwork for a broad strategy, as opposed to policies/reforms determined by the hue of a party's rosette.

It won't be the Royal commission that sets the budget. They'll be given a sum by the government and said that's all you are getting. It'll be the Royal commission that decides what's cut.

This is straight from the Tory startergy for cutting.

1. Localise the decision making.

2. Set a budget lower than previously spent on the service.

3. Blame the local decision makers for any service cuts even though they don't have as much money to spend.

4. Cut taxes.

 

[Mozza]

If you pay for it you get it. Via insurance or tax, people in the uk dont pay enough and thats a fact. That and reorganisation.

The reason your pops could get the private operation the next day is because most people, 99% go NHS. If everyone was private he'd be in a queue, there's only so many doctors to go round.

 

[Stanley Road]

The reason your pops could get the private operation the next day is because most people, 99% go NHS. If everyone was private he'd be in a queue, there's only so many doctors to go round.

In a round about way you're comfirming my point. The doctor in question worked more than 60% privately.

There are always beds in private hospitals, there are always doctors and nurses on hand.

If you are solely relying on govt money you can never hire more people on a whim, you cant get more money unless you raise tax. Other eu countries can have better services, just ask yourself how and why.

 

[Bury Red]

The reason your pops could get the private operation the next day is because most people, 99% go NHS. If everyone was private he'd be in a queue, there's only so many doctors to go round.

We're certainly under resourced but the amount of time doctors, surgeons and nurses spend tied up in red tape trying to deny people needed treatments is bordering on criminal especially for an organisation that this year are taking just shy of £5k from my tax bill. There 's a plethora of ways the NHS defer and deny patients treatment so that often going private is the only way to get care that you need whilst the NHS would have intentionally wasted even more staff time and patient time through their obfuscation for little if any real budget saving.

My old man is nudging 80 but is still incredibly fit, until recently walking 100 miles+ per week. He turned a knee and popped his cartlidge a month ago on a dodgy paving stone that has been reported and on the council's urgent repair radar for over 2 years and is now really struggling to move but has been told that whilst a younger man would get surgical treatment they would only consider it after 6 months of attempts to rectify it by physio at his age. He was already struggling to cope with my mother's worsening alzheimers and this has hit him physically to the point where he looks a good 20 years older than he did at Christmas, the physio has told him he will end up on sticks for life if he carries on and that in 6 months surgery will be a waste of time as his muscles will be too fecked.

I think I've finally got through to him and persuaded him to pay to have surgery privately, the biggest argument against being that he was scared to dip into his savings because he's not sure the government will fund my mother's residential care if he goes in for surgery and secretly fears that once she goes in she will not come back out which he now accepts would be better for them both.

 

[Stanley Road]

We're certainly under resourced but the amount of time doctors, surgeons and nurses spend tied up in red tape trying to deny people needed treatments is bordering on criminal especially for an organisation that this year are taking just shy of £5k from my tax bill. There 's a plethora of ways the NHS defer and deny patients treatment so that often going private is the only way to get care that you need whilst the NHS would have intentionally wasted even more staff time and patient time through their obfuscation for little if any real budget saving.

My old man is nudging 80 but is still incredibly fit, until recently walking 100 miles+ per week. He turned a knee and popped his cartlidge a month ago on a dodgy paving stone that has been reported and on the council's urgent repair radar for over 2 years and is now really struggling to move but has been told that whilst a younger man would get surgical treatment they would only consider it after 6 months of attempts to rectify it by physio at his age. He was already struggling to cope with my mother's worsening alzheimers and this has hit him physically to the point where he looks a good 20 years older than he did at Christmas, the physio has told him he will end up on sticks for life if he carries on and that in 6 months surgery will be a waste of time as his muscles will be too fecked.

I think I've finally got through to him and persuaded him to pay to have surgery privately, the biggest argument against being that he was scared to dip into his savings because he's not sure the government will fund my mother's residential care if he goes in for surgery and secretly fears that once she goes in she will not come back out which he now accepts would be better for them both.

Quite correct, my mrs could not believe that doctors are walking around wards asking about availability of beds, is that part of the job description? It's a waste of everyones time.

Regarding the care home, my dad was in one for 2 years and it was 900 quid a week, extra if he needed a haircut and other things. Basically someone came from the council and robbed his income to cover some of the cost, despite my mum suffering from cancer and needing to get taxi's to hospital and other things to help her cope.

 

[Mozza]

In a round about way you're comfirming my point. The doctor in question worked more than 60% privately.

There are always beds in private hospitals, there are always doctors and nurses on hand.

If you are solely relying on govt money you can never hire more people on a whim, you cant get more money unless you raise tax. Other eu countries can have better services, just ask yourself how and why.

The NHS isn't perfect nor are the EU equivalents. I know though that it will treat anyone, no matter how poor they are, can't say that for private

 

[Bury Red]

The NHS isn't perfect nor are the EU equivalents. I know though that it will treat anyone, no matter how poor they are, can't say that for private

In principal I couldn't agree more, the concept of the NHS as a Universal treatment irrespective of means is along with education one of the cornerstones of all my political beliefs. The reality of the NHS in 2017 is so far removed from it's aims though that you have to wonder if there is any way back for it especially as there is no will to support it within any electable government in the UK.

We've effectively gone from treating everyone irrespective of wealth to mistreating almost everyone with blind disregard to internal wastage and financial constraints.

 

[DOTA]

In principal I couldn't agree more, the concept of the NHS as a Universal treatment irrespective of means is along with education one of the cornerstones of all my political beliefs. The reality of the NHS in 2017 is so far removed from it's aims though that you have to wonder if there is any way back for it especially as there is no will to support it within any electable government in the UK.

We've effectively gone from treating everyone irrespective of wealth to mistreating almost everyone with blind disregard to internal wastage and financial constraints.

I have horror stories to share, myself, but I don't think that is close to accurate. I think most people are still well served by the NHS. The problem is an ever increasing minority, particularly those that are elderly, for obvious reasons, are not.

 

[Stanley Road]

The NHS isn't perfect nor are the EU equivalents. I know though that it will treat anyone, no matter how poor they are, can't say that for private

Yeah if you're british or European perhaps. 800 a day otherwise

 

[Stanley Road]

The NHS isn't perfect nor are the EU equivalents

I think if you woke up in a hospital here you'd think you were in the matrix compared to UK

 

[Stanley Road]

In principal I couldn't agree more, the concept of the NHS as a Universal treatment irrespective of means is along with education one of the cornerstones of all my political beliefs. The reality of the NHS in 2017 is so far removed from it's aims though that you have to wonder if there is any way back for it especially as there is no will to support it within any electable government in the UK.

We've effectively gone from treating everyone irrespective of wealth to mistreating almost everyone with blind disregard to internal wastage and financial constraints.

But they have introduced corridor nurses to treat people with no room or bed, that's advancement

 

[Stanley Road]

I have horror stories to share, myself, but I don't think that is close to accurate. I think most people are still well served by the NHS. The problem is an ever increasing minority, particularly those that are elderly, for obvious reasons, are not.

I wish you could have spent some time with me watching my mum die and the shit care she got.

 

[DOTA]

Ex-pats - the self-appointed experts on UK public services.

 

[DOTA]

I wish you could have spent some time with me watching my mum die and the shit care she got.

I saw my grandmother get very little help.

 

[Cassidy]

No, this is politicians way of abdicating responsibility for the NHS. This way they can de-fund and destroy and blame it on the Royal commission. You've just had Jeremy cnut having the cheek to say performance is unacceptable when he's the fecker in charge

I couldn't believe the cheek of the guy, after everything that has gone on in the last year.

 

[Stanley Road]

Ex-pats - the self-appointed experts on UK public services.

Too right, having experienced hospitals around the world I'd say I am, even mexico city has better hospitals

 

[DOTA]

Too right, having experienced hospitals around the world I'd say I am, even mexico city has better hospitals

Okay.

 

[Bury Red]

I have horror stories to share, myself, but I don't think that is close to accurate. I think most people are still well served by the NHS. The problem is an ever increasing minority, particularly those that are elderly, for obvious reasons, are not.

The increasing number of horror stories is the worry though. I'm sure a drunk with self inflicted injuries but an otherwise healthy immune system clogging A&E on a Saturday night goes through the system with few problems but I'm a tad emotional about it when my Mum was nearly killed by a misdiagnosis of sepsis last week. She had spent 18 hours in triage following a major stroke and lung infection problems only to be discharged with a course of antibiotics without either of the major conditions being noted on her records only for her to crash within an hour of getting back home and being rushed back in, in a coma, by paramedics. I headed up 2 days later expecting it to possibly be the last time I saw her only to be told by the head of nursing that the doctor had just signed her discharge papers again as she could now stand and they were short of beds.

Ex-pats - the self-appointed experts on UK public services.

Not sure if that is just aimed at Stan but I'm no longer an expat and am very hands on with the NHS having returned to help our family as both my mum and my father in law have severe alzheimers. Living the expat life might have made me a bit soft with all it's cushy perks but having been through both the public health system in HK and the private one in Singapore I know it can be run far, far better and also know that I could get far better treatment through an insurer for the £5k a year the taxman takes off me to pay into the NHS.

 

[DOTA]

The increasing number of horror stories is the worry though. I'm sure a drunk with self inflicted injuries but an otherwise healthy immune system clogging A&E on a Saturday night goes through the system with few problems but I'm a tad emotional about it when my Mum was nearly killed by a misdiagnosis of sepsis last week. She had spent 18 hours in triage following a major stroke and lung infection problems only to be discharged with a course of antibiotics without either of the major conditions being noted on her records only for her to crash within an hour of getting back home and being rushed back in, in a coma, by paramedics. I headed up 2 days later expecting it to possibly be the last time I saw her only to be told by the head of nursing that the doctor had just signed her discharge papers again as she could now stand and they were short of beds.

That sounds fecking awful and entirely understandable that you'd be in more of a mind to highlight where the system gets things wrong, when they've quite badly done so for your mum.

Not sure if that is just aimed at Stan but I'm no longer an expat and am very hands on with the NHS having returned to help our family as both my mum and my father in law have severe alzheimers. Living the expat life might have made me a bit soft with all it's cushy perks but having been through both the public health system in HK and the private one in Singapore I know it can be run far, far better and also know that I could get far better treatment through an insurer for the £5k a year the taxman takes off me to pay into the NHS.

It was just aimed at our Stanley. I am in no doubt you could personally get better care for £5K a year. As one who lives on just over twice that a year, it is rather useful.

 

[Cassidy]

That sounds fecking awful and entirely understandable that you'd be in more of a mind to highlight where the system gets things wrong, when they've quite badly done so for your mum.
It was just aimed at our Stanley. I am in no doubt you could personally get better care for £5K a year. As one who lives on just over twice that a year, it is rather useful.

This is an interesting point though, does the NHS have to be free for everyone? I know we all pay through taxes, but maybe making some level of insurance compulsory on a means tested basis make sense in order to increase funding as is done in other EU countries.

Certainly something needs to be done to increase funding, but we do need to protect those who simply cannot afford to pay for healthcare at the same time.

 

[Stanley Road]

but maybe making some level of insurance compulsory on a means tested basis make sense in order to increase funding as is done in other EU countries

That's how it works in Holland

7.6% tax and 150E PM mandatory insurance

 

[Cassidy]

That's how it works in Holland

7.6% tax and 150E PM mandatory insurance

I don't think it should be mandatory for everyone though.

 

[Stanley Road]

I don't think it should be mandatory for everyone though.

However it's done it needs to be changed.

 

[Mozza]

In principal I couldn't agree more, the concept of the NHS as a Universal treatment irrespective of means is along with education one of the cornerstones of all my political beliefs. The reality of the NHS in 2017 is so far removed from it's aims though that you have to wonder if there is any way back for it especially as there is no will to support it within any electable government in the UK.

We've effectively gone from treating everyone irrespective of wealth to mistreating almost everyone with blind disregard to internal wastage and financial constraints.

I don't agree. Just 7 years ago satisfaction with the NHS was the highest it had ever been, guess who came into power?

 

[Mozza]

I think if you woke up in a hospital here you'd think you were in the matrix compared to UK

No, I would think how am I going to pay the bill?

 

[Untied]

This is just unbelievable though...

62% of C2DEs intending to vote for parties that will happily see the NHS dismantled

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Stanley Road]

No, I would think how am I going to pay the bill?

Your E111 will cover it

 

[Kentonio]

I don't think it should be mandatory for everyone though.

Why?

 

[Cassidy]

Why?

Mean tested, as in maybe not everyone can afford it, and if thats the case, then they shouldn't be forced to pay IMO.
For me, from a political standpoint, that it the whole reason I pay tax, not only for the state to provide services to me, but also to help out those in times of need. I may one day lose my job and home, I'd hope that after paying tax for all these years that there would be help for myself in such a time.