Good post.
Nicky Butt promoted to Head of First Team Development
- Thread starter dwd
- Start date
I'm very happy for Butt to take on a new, more enhanced role. He seems to have done a good job at the academy. I'm just getting a bit tired of this whole Sir Alex era veterans running the various aspects of the club. They're all important and valuable no doubt, but I'd really welcome any reports of a seasoned football-world recruiter/ technical director type person being appointed by the club. Think there's a lot for United to learn in terms of today's best practices at top clubs.
I think this is a great move by the club as he already knows the youngsters from the academy and could be the perfect bridge they need to first team. Extremely happy with his new role 
I wouldn’t be so sure. Leeds did it in the 80s; appointing three ex-Revie legends in a row (Clarke, Eddie Gray, Bremner) in the hope that some of the great man’s magic had worn off on at least one of them. When they realised it wasn’t going to work they poached Howard Wilkinson from neighbours Sheffield Wednesday and won the league.
I remember back in his playing days Nicky said he didn't watch football, was just interested in playing it so it's very unexpected that he has gone done this path. He must be a real people person rather than a brilliant talent spotter. It seems like his strength lies in nurturing the players.
Those responsibilities probably still fall within the role of Academy Head, I'm guessing the new role is more deciding how best to bridge the gap to the first team for individual players:
- who goes out on loan, where and for how long
- monitoring those players who are out on loan
- deciding who's better off staying in the U23's and getting some cup games
etc
I'd also imagine it involves, with Ole, identifying gaps in the first team squad that will need to filled in 2/3/4 seasons time and getting players into the academy or developing players already there to fill those gaps.
Not quite the same. Look at the way Leipzig operate.
Rangnick is the DOF and manager while Mitchell is in charge of player recruitment. The may overlap but they are distinct roles
That's like saying, when you were younger you didn't read much but now you devour books. We all change. Some mature and develop a range of skills,some stagnate.
Nothing surprising
Despite football being his life, he didn't show any interest in watching it and he was in his mid twenties so it is more than a little surprising.
Not really, it's the case for a lot of people in sport. Zidane didn't want to coach but be a DOF or board member, it changed when Perez needed a spy around Mourinho and Zidane found himself on the training pitch everyday.
He still wanted a role in football though. Nicky Butt literally didn't enjoy watching football and to be exposed to that all his life and still not show interest in his mid twenties, it's a surprising heel turn. I think it is that he's more into the coaching, developing side of things rather than watching and talent spotting.
As far as I can see Nick Cox has been the one implementing all the change at the Academy and not all for the good either.
It's not an heel turn, he was passing his badges during the last years of his playing career and like Inigo said, people evolve, there is almost 10 years between the Butt that you are using as example and the one that is definitely going to coach. In your mid twenties, you are still building yourself.
That's much more in line with what Stone says. Integration I think is the key word here. Makes sense when our Academy is doing so well, and with some relatively expensive foreign youngsters being brought on, that there is a "champion" of them looking after their integration.
I think we really need to have some feeder/partner clubs that can take and develop our players on loan. Fed up of seeing loanees getting no minutes. Maybe if Salford keep getting promoted...
What do you mean by this?
I guess I was just thinking aloud. It was surprising to me just because of the not watching football thing but it does make sense in that it seems like he does have a the desire to coach within him.
I suspect that for most players the latter years are key. Older players often find themselves in more supportive roles, they show the ropes to younger players on and off the training pitch, so I suspect that some players realize that they like it.
You are right, he would probably spend quite a bit of time with each of the youngsters, possibly including players like Fred and Shaw, to work on specific things on a one to one basis, or with Martial, Rashford and Greenwood eg, to work on patterns of play. I would also think that perhaps a few times in a season, he would probably watch a player that our scouts had identified as a potential United player, and report directly to Ole. I would also think he would be working with players from the academy who have been identified as potential first team possibilities and would be instilling into them the DNA of how the first team plays, so if they did get a call up, then they could slot straight in.
The grass is always greener etc. I'm happy to see ex United players involved all the way, they will all go that extra mile for the club, and even if they are inexperienced, and perhaps wet behind the ears a bit, they will grow into the job. I feel that this season is one of development for the club, both on and off the pitch, so top four, good runs in all the cup competitions, and good attacking football is what I'm looking for this time. I also think that at the start of the 2020/21 season we will see a fair number of current players gone, and several new ones in, with a couple of the academy lads becoming first team regulars.
This has been talked about for some time, i.e. a more important (formal) role for Butt - who has supposedly been working very closely with Ole from day one anyway.
What he'll do, specifically, is (I guess) to oversee the transition of individual players into the first team, identifying who is ready, who is better off going on loan, and so forth - and, not least, recommend candidates for squad roles that would otherwise be filled by bringing in transfers from without.
The idea is - clearly - to use the player resources (academy products) we already possess as efficiently as possible.
Which is sound. Of course, people whose only interest is signing up whoever's flavour of the month won't be too interested in this.
What he'll do, specifically, is (I guess) to oversee the transition of individual players into the first team, identifying who is ready, who is better off going on loan, and so forth - and, not least, recommend candidates for squad roles that would otherwise be filled by bringing in transfers from without.
The idea is - clearly - to use the player resources (academy products) we already possess as efficiently as possible.
Which is sound. Of course, people whose only interest is signing up whoever's flavour of the month won't be too interested in this.
When the Academy started implementing changes a few years back, the intention was to update a dated academy system that had stagnated under McClair and to counter Man City's aggressive approach to recruitment (this has been acknowledged by staff and coaches many times) the tipping point was probably when they poached a number of our best kids (now u16's). Everything was changed and modernised very quickly, probably too quickly.
The problem since is there doesn't seem to be a coherent strategy going forwards, there's constant chopping and changing from season to season, the communication between coaches, player and parents is extremely poor, the games program is badly organised and the recruitment is haphazard to say the least.
I agree we have been wasting talents. Januzaj and Wilson are good examples. Players like Paddy McNair, Cameron Borthwick Jackson, Michael Keane etc could have been developed to be decent squad players. Who's to say they would have done worse than Rojo, Darmian etc.
They haven’t done worse than Darmian or Rojo. C B-J who looks like he’s going to be a league one player, has probably had just as many decent games for Utd as Darmain.
We don’t need the Academy to produce world beaters, if it does, that’s a bonus. What we need is a steady stream of good quality squad players who we augment with transfers, so that we don’t waste tens of millions of pounds on players like Rojo and Darmian who are just taking up space, with the odd aplearance and costing the club an absolute fortune in wages.
Isn't this the same thing, just that the name/title changes.
Looking at the job/role description..
He 've been doing that all this time. Started during Mourinho I believe, he and Mou were always in contact concerning the youth. I'm sure after that, he and Ole continue doing the same thing.
This news sounds more like formality and PR thing.
Looking at the job/role description..
He 've been doing that all this time. Started during Mourinho I believe, he and Mou were always in contact concerning the youth. I'm sure after that, he and Ole continue doing the same thing.
This news sounds more like formality and PR thing.
Never head a role like this
These players were never really good enough, though. Your Borthwick-Jackson’s and McNair’s are your Drinkwater’s, Norwood’s and Webber’s from the 00s. Januzaj hasn’t exactly pulled up any trees since leaving either - albeit I feel we didn’t get it right with him.
Michael Keane was just shocking business. We sold him for feck all and I remember whinging about it at the time. He was one of the best defenders in the Championship aged 18 and we flogged him to Burnley for a packet of Quavers. So getting better at selling the lads who aren’t quite there is probably something to look at.
Isn't that the managers job, along with his coaches and assistants?
Was probably his lesser known brother, Jeff Bezos.
We ended up getting about £8m from the sell-on when Keane transferred from Burnley to Everton, though. Not that bad for a player whose experience in the United first team was almost exclusively League Cup games at 22 years old.
window dressing... how does this change/help anything
Well, being head of the academy means running the entire operation from under 10's upwards, whereas Butt's new role is the take responsibility for bridging the gap between the academy and the first team for our most talented youngsters, basically working with players like Shoretire, Greenwood and Gomes and making sure they get their talent isn't wasted by mentoring them, providing individual training, deciding whether they should go on loan/stay and play in the U23's etc, monitoring their development and trying to fast track them into the first team. Making it a distinct role makes sense, particularly seeing as we seem to have a drive to recruit the continents most talented youngsters this summer (hopefully in the future too).
He was always going to play for England, though. I called that when he was 18 at Leicester. Hence the initial sale was far too low.
I suspect this formalises something that was already happening and gives Butt more time/authority to do it, while letting him delegate more of his old job.
Just about every big club has the same problem - how do you move a player from the academy into the first team. Someone has to decide if mentally as well as physically the player is ready.
Some may benefit from a loan, but others won't. Players on loan need to be looked after. Players on the fringe of the first team squad need match time, and someone to make them see playing for the U21s as a good thing, not a setback.
Some players (like Rooney or Giggs) arrive in first team squads and are ready. Others need longer to develop. Some players will never make it at United, others need nurturing - and it's not always down to skill.
If Butt can improve the conveyor belt then it'll be great.
Just about every big club has the same problem - how do you move a player from the academy into the first team. Someone has to decide if mentally as well as physically the player is ready.
Some may benefit from a loan, but others won't. Players on loan need to be looked after. Players on the fringe of the first team squad need match time, and someone to make them see playing for the U21s as a good thing, not a setback.
Some players (like Rooney or Giggs) arrive in first team squads and are ready. Others need longer to develop. Some players will never make it at United, others need nurturing - and it's not always down to skill.
If Butt can improve the conveyor belt then it'll be great.
Used to be, but with the game being global I think the job(s) are far bigger than they used to be.
Coaches have a specific brief now and that is to look at the tactics and training for each game. If they had to concern themselves with player development too they enter different territory.
Nothing better than getting pay raise for doing pretty much the same job.
This is just a smoke-screen to distract us from the lack of a DOF imo..
Have the likes of Rojo and Darmian really been better than those players?
They've been a waste of wages and transfer fees.
Right..
Academy graduates now would have been recruited 10 years ago when we dominated recruitment locally with a coherent philosophy. Nothing to do with Butt and certainly not Cox! Bit like Beacoup I've heard academy's a shambles. Intake of scholars absolutely average and last season were beaten 4-1 by City's 15s. Then in 15s, 14s, 13s and 12s we didn't qualify for any of the Premier league national tournaments and performed poorly in international tournaments which shows standard of groups is below average. Time to judge the two above will be in years to come, not now as let's not forget they inherited a well oiled machine.