No.1 for next season - De Gea or Henderson?

[The Corinthian]

DDG was always playing the final. He's been the Europa keeper.

Has he? They've both played even number of games in Europa so far.

Hendo was the keeper for both legs vs Real Sociedad, and AC Milan.
DdG was the keeper for both legs vs Grenada, and Roma.

I think Hendo playing vs Wolves means that it's DdG for the final. Would be a nice send off for him too.

 

[bsCallout]

People on one hand claim DDG is only young for a GK and yet to hit his peak, compared to say VDS, whilst simultaneously saying Henderson is never going to be good enough despite being very young for a GK and far from his prime. I've even seen it mentioned that Henderson has even hit his prime.

 

[Sandikan]

Think it's a total 50-50 at best.
Henderson doesn't at all strike me as being a top keeper right now, and De Gea is levels below his peak, despite the "coming to peak" mantra.

I do wonder in a couple of years if we have to look elsewhere. Hope not, and Henderson emerges.

 

[bsCallout]

Has he? They've both played even number of games in Europa so far.

Hendo was the keeper for both legs vs Real Sociedad, and AC Milan.
DdG was the keeper for both legs vs Grenada, and Roma.

I think Hendo playing vs Wolves means that it's DdG for the final. Would be a nice send off for him too.

DDG in all knockout rounds right? after being dropped from the league XI

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

People on one hand claim DDG is only young for a GK and yet to hit his peak, compared to say VDS, whilst simultaneously saying Henderson is never going to be going enough despite being very young for a GK and far from his prime. I've even seen it mentioned that Henderson has even hit his prime.

You will always get conflicting opinions from football fans.

most rational people will acknowledge that DDG is both not as good as he once one, never likely to be so again, but has many years left as a keeper who can operate at a good level. He’s clearly ‘peaked’.

Henderson is on an upward trajectory.

If we mapped them out in a graph, the question is whether DDG as he is now is better than Henderson is now or is going to be?

then secondly is that good enough for United?

thirdly, can we do better?

I don’t know the answers to the first two questions. We can definitely do better than this version of DDG and Henderson - but we’ve been spoiled by Schmeichal, VDS and DDG (when he was at his best). Do we need to have a better keeper than these two? Ideally. But what we have might* be good enough.

*you don’t have to have a world class keeper to be successful.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Just let them fight for it as we don't have budget to sign Oblak on top of glaring needs in defense, right wing, midfield & attack.

 

[bsCallout]

You will always get conflicting opinions from football fans.

most rational people will acknowledge that DDG is both not as good as he once one, never likely to be so again, but has many years left as a keeper who can operate at a good level. He’s clearly ‘peaked’.

Henderson is on an upward trajectory.

If we mapped them out in a graph, the question is whether DDG as he is now is better than Henderson is now or is going to be?

then secondly is that good enough for United?

thirdly, can we do better?

I don’t know the answers to the first two questions. We can definitely do better than this version of DDG and Henderson - but we’ve been spoiled by Schmeichal, VDS and DDG (when he was at his best). Do we need to have a better keeper than these two? Ideally. But what we have might* be good enough.

*you don’t have to have a world class keeper to be successful.

My point was really that those seemingly opposing views come from the same posters.

I agree with everything you've said.

 

[Eugenius]

I wonder for the club whether it's more financially attractive to sell Henderson (and bring in potentially £30m+).

I know DDG's on higher wages but I suspect if we actively try and offload him we're going to end up paying a bit of his wages ala Sanchez.

 

[Spaghetti]

Neither of them are great, but we have more urgent problems.

If I had to make the decision then I would keep Dave and sell Dean, if there was a 30 million fee for him.

 

[Oranges038]

People on one hand claim DDG is only young for a GK and yet to hit his peak, compared to say VDS, whilst simultaneously saying Henderson is never going to be good enough despite being very young for a GK and far from his prime. I've even seen it mentioned that Henderson has even hit his prime.

Personally I think DDG is like Casillas, early peak and then pretty much done by 30. Henderson was one of the best in the league last season for Sheffield United, literally the only player they lost from their back line and they finished bottom with 30 more goals conceded. This United team with Henderson in goal look more comfortable at the back, let in less goals and has kept more clean sheets in half as many games than with DDG.

I think most people think DDG should still play because of the saves he could make. Forgetting that now his reactions have decreased, he offers very little in every other aspect of a top keeper. And let's be honest those top class reaction saves aside, he was never a sweeper keeper, commanding, vocal or great at passing out from the back.

You wouldn't keep playing a striker who could pull out a worldy of a goal every now and then to remind everyone that he's still got something, when you have a younger one who is scoring more goals and is better for the team overall. It's the same here with Henderson, he is a better fit for the team overall and how Ole wants to play.


I've posted this before, Schmeichel explains it better than I ever could.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

You miss the point. You could win the league with a keeper the quality of Kasper, not because of him. With Pickford you lose too many because he's so error prone.

So tone it down a bit.

No I don't miss the point. Its absurd to say Kasper could have any material contribution in winning OR not winning the league by himeslf. We haven't won the league post SAF with some of DDG's best years. GKs don't win the league, that's like suggesting having a solid RB can win you the league. Sure everyone contributes, but they don't make material difference, get a grip!

 

[bsCallout]

Personally I think DDG is like Casillas, early peak and then pretty much done by 30. Henderson was one of the best in the league last season for Sheffield United, literally the only player they lost from their back line and they finished bottom with 30 more goals conceded. This United team with Henderson in goal look more comfortable at the back, let in less goals and has kept more clean sheets in half as many games than with DDG.

I think most people think DDG should still play because of the saves he could make. Forgetting that now his reactions have decreased, he offers very little in every other aspect of a top keeper. And let's be honest those top class reaction saves aside, he was never a sweeper keeper, commanding, vocal or great at passing out from the back.

You wouldn't keep playing a striker who could pull out a worldy of a goal every now and then to remind everyone that he's still got something, when you have a younger one who is scoring more goals and is better for the team overall. It's the same here with Henderson, he is a better fit for the team overall and how Ole wants to play.


I've posted this before, Schmeichel explains it better than I ever could.

I agree. The bit about a keeper being happy being away from the goal sums up why Henderson is the better fit At United than DDG.

 

[bsCallout]

No I don't miss the point. Its absurd to say Kasper could have any material contribution in winning OR not winning the league by himeslf. We haven't won the league post SAF with some of DDG's best years. GKs don't win the league, that's like suggesting having a solid RB can win you the league. Sure everyone contributes, but they don't make material difference, get a grip!

No, you are missing the point and you missed it again with your rant. Woosh.

It might be useful for you to watch the interview someone else just posted too.

I won't refute it again because you seems incapable of comprehending something simple. So again, tone it down.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

No, you are missing the point and you missed it again with your rant. Woosh.

It might be useful for you to watch the interview someone else just posted too.

I won't refute it again because you seems incapable of comprehending something simple. So again, tone it down.

Whatever. I won't do it again because its such an absurd point. If GKs could make any material difference, they won't go for dime a dozen.

 

[bsCallout]

Whatever. I won't do it again because its such an absurd point.

Well of course it is because you've imagined a point that wasn't being made. So 'give your head a shake', and the point being made might come to you.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

Well of course it is because you've imagined a point that wasn't being made. So 'give your head a shake', and the point being made might come to you.

So what is your point? Go ahead, try again in simple english and I will show you the absurdity of it.

Here I will simplify for you. Signing Kasper will have no effect one way or the other in us winning or not winning the league. Simple enough for you?

 

[bsCallout]

So what is your point? Go ahead, try again in simple english and I will show you the absurdity of it.

At risk of a ban, I'll politely ask you to just go back to the first comment and second comments and figure out the really complex sentences.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

At risk of a ban, I'll politely ask you to just go back to the first comment and second comments and figure out the really complex sentences.

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Here I will simplify for you. Signing Kasper will have no effect one way or the other in us winning or not winning the league. Simple enough for you?

 

[Lee565]

I struggle to believe that starting the season with either keeper will allow us to be serious contenders for either the premier league or champions league

 

[bsCallout]

Yeah, I didn't think so.

I'm quite sure you didn't think at all.

 

[Eternitiy]

I was a fan of Henderson, but I'm less convinced as the season's progressed.

De Gea is finished at the highest level.

We may need to look elsewhere, but I'm prepared to give Henderson another season.

I feel really badly for Romero, a wonderful player for this club who has been treated awfully.

 

[peridigm]

DDG had obvious talents when he signed. The challenge with Henderson is that he doesn’t have any outstanding qualities. He’s the Fred of goalkeepers. Tries hard and puts in the effort - but is that good enough?

Henderson conceded 37 goals and had 14 clean sheets in 40 matches for Sheffield last season. 22/13 in 26 matches this season.

This season DDG stats are 45/12 in 35 matches.
Last season 44/15 in 43 matches.
His first season at United was 47/15 out of 39.
The season before he came to United. 65/14 in 49.

Henderson does have qualities that DDG doesn't. He's better commanding in the box and not afraid to come off his line. He's far from the Fred of goalkeepers. Henderson may not be the long term solution but we'll be fine with him for a few years until someone better comes along.
At this point, DDG is declining and needs to move on.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

We have to analyze who suits United style more.

DDG is a world class shot stopper. Really hates coming too far off his goal line, is at his best in the deeper block. Poor at one on one's and rushing out when we play the higher line. He has poor distribution.

Henderson is better for a higher line. Willing to rush out of his goal. Perhaps too willing. Better communicator. Is nowhere near the shot stopper of De Gea. Better for one on ones though. Still makes mistakes associated with lack of experience.

If we are on the front foot and playing a lot of the ball I expect Henderson to be the better option. There is an opportunity for growth but he is far from the finished article. He is absolutely a more modern keeper.

If we are expecting to sit back and absorb other teams attack and break on counter then De Gea is better. Hes kind of on the decline as he has played 13 years at the top level but you know all his strengths and weaknesses. There is an argument that his save percentage is low this season but that can be offset by shot quality etc. Smarter people than me can debate that.

I think De Gea starts vs Villareal and I reckon we won't be able to shift him in Summer unless we are willing to take a huge financial loss.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

I was a fan of Henderson, but I'm less convinced as the season's progressed.

De Gea is finished at the highest level.

We may need to look elsewhere, but I'm prepared to give Henderson another season.

I feel really badly for Romero, a wonderful player for this club who has been treated awfully.

Romero was not treated awfully. He has been a perennial number 2 keeper. He took the job here knowing he was number 2. This narrative is daft considering De Gea is a better keeper. Sure, Romero could've had more mop up games.

 

[bsCallout]

We have to analyze who suits United style more.

DDG is a world class shot stopper. Really hates coming too far off his goal line, is at his best in the deeper block. Poor at one on one's and rushing out when we play the higher line. He has poor distribution.

Henderson is better for a higher line. Willing to rush out of his goal. Perhaps too willing. Better communicator. Is nowhere near the shot stopper of De Gea. Better for one on ones though. Still makes mistakes associated with lack of experience.

If we are on the front foot and playing a lot of the ball I expect Henderson to be the better option. There is an opportunity for growth but he is far from the finished article. He is absolutely a more modern keeper.

If we are expecting to sit back and absorb other teams attack and break on counter then De Gea is better. Hes kind of on the decline as he has played 13 years at the top level but you know all his strengths and weaknesses. There is an argument that his save percentage is low this season but that can be offset by shot quality etc. Smarter people than me can debate that.

I think De Gea starts vs Villareal and I reckon we won't be able to shift him in Summer unless we are willing to take a huge financial loss.

How would it be a huge financial loss?

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Whatever. I won't do it again because its such an absurd point. If GKs could make any material difference, they won't go for dime a dozen.

I suggest you revisit the season we hauled Newcastle back from 12 points clear to win the league, Without big Pete that string of 1-0 wins doesnt happen and we dont win the league.

 

[bsCallout]

I suggest you revisit the season we hauled Newcastle back from 12 points clear to win the league, Without big Pete that string of 1-0 wins doesnt happen and we dont win the league.

@RedDevilzFox Not only did you have your own argument, you lost the argument against your own made up point.

 

[Ace]

Neither are long term options-- Sell Henderson while his value is high, keep de Gea (who is currently the superior goalkeeper) for the two remaining seasons on his contract. Upgrade or midfield immediately.

 

[Oranges038]

I agree. The bit about a keeper being happy being away from the goal sums up why Henderson is the better fit At United than DDG.

Honestly don't know why people can't see this.

Whatever. I won't do it again because its such an absurd point. If GKs could make any material difference, they won't go for dime a dozen.

This is laughable. What's the point in having one if they make no material difference? Why not stick any old player in goal every week?

 

[Smores]

The ideal solution is they both stay and get games next season. I'd still personally have De Gea over Henderson for now but it's Hendersons to earn.

 

[Withnail]

@RedDevilzFox Not only did you have your own argument, you lost the argument against your own made up point.

I think I lost some braincells reading that exchange. I admire your patience.

 

[Sunny Jim]

After a run of games i know that we should cash on Henderson as soon as possible.

 

[MadDogg]

De Gea will obviously start the EL final. I'm not sure why there seems to be so much debate. The two keepers obviously swapped places (Henderson becoming the league keeper and De Gea the cup keeper) after De Gea went back to Spain for the birth of his kid. De Gea got the one league game against Fulham to both keep him match-ready and probably to say goodbye to the fans if he does move on, but otherwise it's been consistent.

Haha .. you ain't winning the league by simply sticking Kasper as a GK. A lot of his mistakes won't go unnoticed at man united. That's the kind of stuff people were saying about henderson too before he was put in between the posts.

If winning the league was simply a matter of buying Kasper, then we'd be stupid to buy anything else. Think of it for a minute and give your head a fair shake.

Kasper has started making a fair few mistakes the last season or two, but before that he was probably the best all-round keeper in the league for 3 or 4 seasons. He wasn't amazing at anything in particular but he was good at everything. If Henderson can reach that level that's absolutely fine for us and he could easily be our #1 for the next decade and, as long as the rest of the team is good enough (a point that is so obvious I didn't think needed to be stated until I read your later comments), could win the league. Pickford wouldn't be able to do that. De Gea of the last three seasons wouldn't be able to do that. It's currently questionable whether Henderson could do that.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Here I will simplify for you. Signing Kasper will have no effect one way or the other in us winning or not winning the league. Simple enough for you?

Good lord mate, what a show you've made of yourself throughout this exchange

Henderson obviously isn't perfect but he's largely done well when he's played this season and the defence has looked more solid in general. He should be number 1.

Love De Gea but he's ranged from average to poor for three seasons now. A move would probably be good for him too.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

How would it be a huge financial loss?

Hes reportedly being paid £375K a week.

No one will pay him that elsewhere. You can hope beyond hope a mega club like PSG is interested but its probably more like a lower level Spanish team will be his only suitor.

So you're going to probably have to pay 250k a week for him to play else where. Which is 12 million a year. Thats a huge amount of money to waste.

 

[bsCallout]

Hes reportedly being paid £375K a week.

No one will pay him that elsewhere. You can hope beyond hope a mega club like PSG is interested but its probably more like a lower level Spanish team will be his only suitor.

So you're going to probably have to pay 250k a week for him to play else where. Which is 12 million a year. Thats a huge amount of money to waste.

Why is it assumed he'll only leave on the same money? He was likely paid that sort of money simply so he didn't leave before.

There are other important things to him such as being closer to family and being the no.1 GK, which is especially important if he wants to play for Spain in the future.

He'll leave and the wages won't be an issue because he will accept being paid less.

I expect he'll either accept a mid table Spanish team just to be in Spain or he'll go to Italy.

 

[Matthew84!]

Henderson will be no1,
DDG to start the final and then leave

 

[Alemar]

Could Ole give both keepers 1 half each in the final?

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Why is it assumed he'll only leave on the same money? He was likely paid that sort of money simply so he didn't leave before.

There are other important things to him such as being closer to family and being the no.1 GK, which is especially important if he wants to play for Spain in the future.

He'll leave and the wages won't be an issue because he will accept being paid less.

I expect he'll either accept a mid table Spanish team just to be in Spain or he'll go to Italy.

I love Fifa too mate

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

I’ve been pro Henderson this season and if I had to fall down on one, I’d still go with him next season. However, the water is still very muddy on this whole area and i’m more uncertain than ever right now. All I know is the one who isn’t chosen must leave this summer for all parties concerned.