No.1 for next season - De Gea or Henderson?

No.1 for next season

  • De Gea

    Votes: 264 37.0%
  • Henderson

    Votes: 309 43.3%
  • Someone else

    Votes: 99 13.9%
  • Play both

    Votes: 42 5.9%

  • Total voters
    714

Ole's screen

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I don't see where all the discussion in this thread is coming from really. It looks very obvious to me that Henderson is going to be the guy next season at the very least and we'll be looking to move De Gea on this summer.

The only argument against that happening is if we literally can't find another club to take De Gea on, which I'm not buying. He's still a top keeper and on his day can still save a game pretty much by himself. There would be many potential buyers if we're not too fussed about the transfer fees.
 

Gavinb33

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Unfortunately, I agree with this. The stats confirm how poorly De Gea has been performing but you’d have to be wildly optimistic to think Henderson looks like he’ll become as good a keeper as peak De Gea, never mind an upgrade.
You could say that of any keeper I don't think I've seen anything like De Gea in those 3/4 years he was unbelievable, I even argued with my brother he was the best I've seen at OT he was the only thing keeping us in games at times.

However it's been a long time since those days and the numbers go down each season and this season he hasn't been great, yes Henderson had a horror against Liverpool but in the end it didn't cost us anything De Gea howlers against Everton x2 probably cost us a title challenge and the ones against Chelsea in the semi final could have cost an FA cup as well, De Gea makes as many if not more mistakes than Henderson while taking x3 his wage which he isn't worth and probably hasn't been since he signed the contract that for me is the biggest reason to sell him, also get another commanding centre back in with Maguire and we won't need a super goal keeper just a good one kinda like Ederson at City
 

Still ill

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In a typical Caf move, we have decided that whichever is not playing is the better keeper. Instead of this working as a positive, with 2 number ones vying for top spot,it feels like 2 number 2s trying to make the other guy look good. All a bit underwhelming.
 
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He could turn into a well rounded keeper fit (enough) for the top level - which isn't bad at all, but...

...what we have at the moment are

a) a former world class shot stopper who has utterly failed to develop other sides of his game at the age of 30 - and:

b) a pretty ordinary (decent, sure) looking allrounder prospect at the age of 24...and they're both on insane (relatively speaking) money.

I dunno - I've said it before, but I don't understand the Henderson thing. To be clear - I do understand playing him over DDG (he clearly offers plenty which DDG doesn't). But making him the best paid understudy in world football? No, I don't understand that - there isn't a single thing about him which stands out in any way.

Hopefully, there's something I'm missing (wouldn't be the first time).
I hope so too! It’s a toss up as to which is the better keeper at the moment. I don’t think either will be our long term keeper, but i hope that i Am wrong.
 

Tomuś

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Dealing with crosses and commanding his box were the things that first made me confortable with De Gea losing his top spot but...

Henderson isn't exatly a world-beater there is he?

With De Gea we've got reflexes, less spilled shots to dangerous areas and more experience and that nice trait of his for doing extraordinary. Al of those may not be as good as they were, with the bar being extremely high but he does just shades for me.
 

lex talionis

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De Gea is clearly the better keeper today, but United are in the process of building a squad for the future. If the decision is to go with Henderson I don't have a serious problem with that, but we should be aware it will take several seasons -- if ever -- for Henderson to get anywhere close to peak De Gea for those 5/6 seasons when he was arguably the top keeper on the planet.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Henderson isn't exatly a world-beater there is he?
No - he's bog standard, you could say *. It's just that DDG is below bog standard in those departments.

* Which is fine for a 24 year old keeper in the PL. But he happens to be a keeper we - seemingly - believe in to the tune of making him one of the best paid players in the world in his position.

As - at the time the contract was offered - a 2nd choice, mind you. Under normal circumstances, you'd expect an extraordinarily highly valued understudy to the highest paid keeper in the world to be...I dunno, an extraordinary talent?

Yeah - again - it doesn't make any feckin' sense if you ask me: if he's now the 1st choice, he hasn't turned into that because he's emerged as a world beater. He's become 1st choice by "virtue" of the former 1st choice being below bog standard in several departments. That's the reality of the situation, if we're being honest.
 

RedPed

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I don't focus solely on stats. I judge by also watching the games. You can see quite clearly during games that with Henderson in goal the team can play those extra few yards higher and are less likely to be defending inside the 18 yard box. This all means that a higher press can be employed and the ball turned over into attacks quicker. It's the opposite with De Gea in goal.

I posted a video from Schmeichel where he explains it. I don't know how anyone that watches it and looks at the stats can still think DDG is the better choice.
Henderson's just the shiny new toy at the moment. He's never at any point even been better than Romero, yet everybody scoffed at the thought of him replacing De Gea. Every goalkeeper goes through a dip. De Gea seems to be coming out the other side. If Solskjaer's planning to have Henderson at #1 and Heaton at #2 next season, we'll be fecked. Perhaps it's the young English thing that is skewing people's perspectives but Henderson's ok, he's not great.

If we are looking to replace our #1, there are certainly better options out there.
 

Rightnr

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Henderson has barely been challenged in goal this season when he's played, especially in the early rounds of the EL. He looks like a younger Joe Hart to me. A lot of talk, very little walk.

De Gea was also in goal for us when we had that dire start to the season, so obviously his stats are hit by that. But beyond this, if you actually watch the games, you'd easily see he's the better keeper and he's not that much worse with this feet when Henderson is supposedly a modern keeper (nowhere near).

The fact this is even a conversation shows how much the UK media have people on a shoestring. Absolute travesty we're talking about a keeper when McTominay is starting in midfield for us. All you lot crowing about progress, etc. need to recognise that without De Gea's insane performance against Roma, we'd be done for the season by now.

Just look at the Liverpool game to see what dear homeschooled Hendo will do when a big game comes with genuine pressure comes along. He'll shit the bed.

Because other is from our academy. So he can't be average. He is new Pete or VDS but needs time to prove it.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This better be a joke.
 
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Matthew84!

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I don't see where all the discussion in this thread is coming from really. It looks very obvious to me that Henderson is going to be the guy next season at the very least and we'll be looking to move De Gea on this summer.

The only argument against that happening is if we literally can't find another club to take De Gea on, which I'm not buying. He's still a top keeper and on his day can still save a game pretty much by himself. There would be many potential buyers if we're not too fussed about the transfer fees.
Finally a little bit of sense, we need to sell DDG now to get his stupid wages of the books,
Give Henderson a few years to grow into it, DDG took quite a few years to get over his shaky start.
 

devilish

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DDG is in decline. That wouldn't be a problem if the morons at board level gave him a salary that reflect that but they gave him an annual salary of 19.5m instead. Assuming we can get rid of him (which is very unlikely) then we should go for it.

I am not completely bought about Henderson but the guy has to be given a chance. If he makes it then fine, if not then we'll buy a new goalkeeper. We better bring a decent backup keeper though who can take over if things go wrong though.
 

SecondFig

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The only argument against that happening is if we literally can't find another club to take De Gea on, which I'm not buying. He's still a top keeper and on his day can still save a game pretty much by himself. There would be many potential buyers if we're not too fussed about the transfer fees.
To who? He's on huge wages, so even if we're prepared to accept a low transfer fee (say £10-15m) I don't see many clubs that would want him AND can afford his wages. Besides, as you've said, it's pretty clear he's on the decline so most elite clubs will feel they could do better. He's also now a somewhat old fashioned keeper in that he's really good at keeping the ball out of the goal - but not much else. His distribution is nothing special, he doesn't organise a defence all that well, or command his area. He can't play as a sweeper-keeper or play those Alisson, Ederson (hell, even Pickford) style passes to break a high-block...

I'd expect DDG to still be at the club next year, and I wouldn't be surprised if Henderson leaves
 

RkkMan

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To who? He's on huge wages, so even if we're prepared to accept a low transfer fee (say £10-15m) I don't see many clubs that would want him AND can afford his wages. Besides, as you've said, it's pretty clear he's on the decline so most elite clubs will feel they could do better. He's also now a somewhat old fashioned keeper in that he's really good at keeping the ball out of the goal - but not much else. His distribution is nothing special, he doesn't organise a defence all that well, or command his area. He can't play as a sweeper-keeper or play those Alisson, Ederson (hell, even Pickford) style passes to break a high-block...

I'd expect DDG to still be at the club next year, and I wouldn't be surprised if Henderson leaves
It doesn't have to be a permanent transfer don't you think there will be a club willing to take him on an initial loan like Alexis(who was also on high wages) with both clubs paying a part of his wages? That's not a wildly unrealistic way to get him off the books temporarily with the hope he'll get a permanent move in a year's time with his contract close to expiring in 2023
 

jackal&hyde

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Henderson's just the shiny new toy at the moment. He's never at any point even been better than Romero, yet everybody scoffed at the thought of him replacing De Gea. Every goalkeeper goes through a dip. De Gea seems to be coming out the other side. If Solskjaer's planning to have Henderson at #1 and Heaton at #2 next season, we'll be fecked. Perhaps it's the young English thing that is skewing people's perspectives but Henderson's ok, he's not great.

If we are looking to replace our #1, there are certainly better options out there.
Agree. Hendo needs another season with rotation to prove himself. Title and CL winning teams tend to have WC keepers and Henderson is not there yet if ever, while DDG showed against Roma he can be WC on his day; he is in a resurrection period imo.
 

Alemar

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To sum up: we need to play de Gea in the final today, but in case of penalty shoot out, Henderson must be brought on at the end of extra time
 

Andycoleno9

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Jesus. Why do some people have a problem with players coming through the ranks? this is pathetic.
Who said that? Don't twist my words. When players come through ranks in natural way then it is great. It is amazing to see Greenwood, Rashford, Tuanzebe or Hendo in team. Instead paying 200 mil for players on those positions we have our local lads. There is no United fan who is not proud on that fact.
But when you push things to happen then it can have countereffect. And this is exactly that situation.
 

Longshanks

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Henderson will be no1 next season, de gea more than likely will be leaving in summer.

Hendersons better ability with the ball and his willingness to play sweeper make him better for the way we want to play. The jury is still out on his shot stopping and handling being good enough for elite level but he's done enough to earn his chance next season.

He's a confident lad I don't think he will crumble under the pressure when he makes a mistake and the media and the fans jump down his throat as long as he can brush the criticism off when it comes off, I think he will prove to be a top goalkeeper.
 

largelyworried

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I get that people are unconvinced by Henderson, but the people still wanting De Gea in net is surprising. How many bang average seasons does he need to have before we decide we can do better?
 

Andersons Dietician

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I get that people are unconvinced by Henderson, but the people still wanting De Gea in net is surprising. How many bang average seasons does he need to have before we decide we can do better?
I think it’s more that there are a handful of keepers that are elite and DeGea is still above average even in this slump of form. He isn’t currently at the form we’ve witnessed previously but not many of the elite goalkeepers can even get to the form he showed.

He’s not bang average.
 

jackal&hyde

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bsCallout why are you so sure DDG is leaving? Have there been credible reports on it?

I see two options here. The most likely both stay and we play them in a similar fashion to this season and hope Henderson improves enough that we don't have to spend for a top keeper.

The second is we do a swap deal with A. Madrid for Oblak or something like that and get a clear improvement.

Going in to a critical season where we need to fight for the title with an unknown quantity at the back is a recipe for disaster. Hendo has no right at this point to demand number 1 at a club that expects to be the best in the World.
 

Pearl's a minger

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De Gea has played in all the previous Europa League games, right?

Ole's not going to change him now. Tuchel did the same with Kepa in the FA Cup final.
Henderson played both games against Real Sociedad and AC Milan this season if memory serves me right.
 

Idxomer

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I feel we're going into another post-Schmeichel situation, the club needs to identify the new DDG quickly.
 

anant

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I think while Dave is in steady decline Henderson's not there yet as well. His shot stopping is ok-ish at best and the shots he prevents due to him coming out are balanced out by inferior shot stopping (I know people will point to PSxG numbers, but Dave's had some shockers that are influencing that, unlike Henderson who's blunder wouldn't really be captured in the stats as that would be a different shot).

I'd keep both of them for another year if I'm being honest, Dave in CL and cups, Henderson in league. Change the strategy once you're convinced either ways in Hendo - either he starts playing crucial CL ties as well or he loses place in league games as well.
 

largelyworried

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I think it’s more that there are a handful of keepers that are elite and DeGea is still above average even in this slump of form. He isn’t currently at the form we’ve witnessed previously but not many of the elite goalkeepers can even get to the form he showed.

He’s not bang average.
His ranking at shot-stopping over the last 3 seasons. I don't see how anyone can claim that's anything but average, at best.

Ranking in Europe's top 5 leagues​
Ranking in the PL​
2020-2021​
48th​
17th​
2019-2020​
37th​
11th​
2018-2019​
53rd​
9th​

From here.
 

Andersons Dietician

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His ranking at shot-stopping over the last 3 seasons. I don't see how anyone can claim that's anything but average, at best.

Ranking in Europe's top 5 leagues​
Ranking in the PL​
2020-2021​
48th​
17th​
2019-2020​
37th​
11th​
2018-2019​
53rd​
9th​

From here.
To be honest stats for goalkeepers are about as useful as a cock flavoured lollipop. How do you measure the difficulty of the chance in a stat? What if a striker is clean through 1 on 1 or if the keeper doesnt see a shot due to it being blocked. What if the keeper has just had to cover the width of his goal to make a save top corner after defending front post.

Is there a stat for amount of spills in to dangerous areas, or amount of times a ball is parried to safety? What if it’s raining? Or what if the striker just has a mare and floats easy balls in for you to stop all day. What if the striker is RVP and is firing them top corner and you’re saving them?

This could go on all day. So I go with what I see and DeGea is above average and let’s not forget if not for him we are probably not currently in a final as he pulled off some worldies against Roma when everyone around him was crumbling.

Personally I just think there are very few keepers you could get that are better without having to pay a ridiculous amount of money. Donaruma might be available on a free and generally from what I’ve seen over the years he looks like someone worth developing. Not sure Deano is all that but if there was ever a keeper to get who would be an improvement on DeGea it would be Oblak, who you’d have to pay an absolute fortune for.
 

Floyd

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To sum up: we need to play de Gea in the final today, but in case of penalty shoot out, Henderson must be brought on at the end of extra time
Oh yes, we will lose with De Gea in a shoot out. Unless Bruno takes all our penalties.
 

Maciej

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De Gea.

Because Henderson's nationality is 50% of his quality on here. So if we're discussing De Gea v Henderson, it must be de Gea, because we should focus on skill, not on a passport.
 

dove

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De Gea. He became a victim of his own success. We became so spoilt seeing him constantly bailing us out of even deeper shite than we were during the years that when he started making a few mistakes here and there he suddenly became a shite keeper who could be easily replaced by the likes of Henderson. Nothing against Henderson, he has done alright but to me he just looks like a typical average keeper that wouldn't look out of place at Burnley. Unfortunately I think the decision is already made and De Gea will leave.
 

Gog

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I think while Dave is in steady decline Henderson's not there yet as well. His shot stopping is ok-ish at best and the shots he prevents due to him coming out are balanced out by inferior shot stopping (I know people will point to PSxG numbers, but Dave's had some shockers that are influencing that, unlike Henderson who's blunder wouldn't really be captured in the stats as that would be a different shot).

I'd keep both of them for another year if I'm being honest, Dave in CL and cups, Henderson in league. Change the strategy once you're convinced either ways in Hendo - either he starts playing crucial CL ties as well or he loses place in league games as well.
I agree with this. Whatever the plan was (if there was a plan to get rid of one of them), ditch it.

They are both under contract and being paid handsomely.

Hold on to both for another year at least, before making a decision we could regret
 

largelyworried

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To be honest stats for goalkeepers are about as useful as a cock flavoured lollipop. How do you measure the difficulty of the chance in a stat? What if a striker is clean through 1 on 1 or if the keeper doesnt see a shot due to it being blocked. What if the keeper has just had to cover the width of his goal to make a save top corner after defending front post.

Is there a stat for amount of spills in to dangerous areas, or amount of times a ball is parried to safety? What if it’s raining? Or what if the striker just has a mare and floats easy balls in for you to stop all day. What if the striker is RVP and is firing them top corner and you’re saving them?

This could go on all day. So I go with what I see and DeGea is above average and let’s not forget if not for him we are probably not currently in a final as he pulled off some worldies against Roma when everyone around him was crumbling.

Personally I just think there are very few keepers you could get that are better without having to pay a ridiculous amount of money. Donaruma might be available on a free and generally from what I’ve seen over the years he looks like someone worth developing. Not sure Deano is all that but if there was ever a keeper to get who would be an improvement on DeGea it would be Oblak, who you’d have to pay an absolute fortune for.
That ranking is based on post-shot xG, it accounts for the fact that different shots have varying difficulties. Clearly, goalkeeping stats have to account for the fact that some shots are easier than others.

If you have some other stats worth looking at I'm happy to do so. But I hope you recognise that arguments along the lines of "What about that one time he played well" are not particularly convincing.
 

Oranges038

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De Gea.

Because Henderson's nationality is 50% of his quality on here. So if we're discussing De Gea v Henderson, it must be de Gea, because we should focus on skill, not on a passport.
It's not about skill or ability, it's mostly to do with how each fits into the team and the style Ole wants to play. From that perspective Henderson is the better fit in nearly every department.

Then about you look at the stats on how the team perform with each in goal? Henderson is the better fit, I posted all these yesterday.

Then look at individual stats, Henderson performs better in nearly every metric.


That ranking is based on post-shot xG, it accounts for the fact that different shots have varying difficulties. Clearly, goalkeeping stats have to account for the fact that some shots are easier than others.
I looked this up after it came up yesterday. It's basically the difference between should have scored and should have saved it. Only someone has put numbers on them.

The only stats that matter in this context for Utd are the overall team performance with either Henderson or De Gea in goal. With Henderson in goal, on average the team concedes less goals, keeps more clean sheets and wins more games.

I don't know why people can't see this as a positive thing, rather than accepting it, they try to go beyond it by putting the xs and post shot xg stats as if it means something more than whether or not it is better for the team to have one over the other.

If De Gea is already letting in more goals, what is there to say that he would save chances that Henderson lets in?

Conversely, if Henderson is letting in less goals what is there to say he wouldn't save some of the chances De Gea lets in?
 
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I think while Dave is in steady decline Henderson's not there yet as well. His shot stopping is ok-ish at best and the shots he prevents due to him coming out are balanced out by inferior shot stopping (I know people will point to PSxG numbers, but Dave's had some shockers that are influencing that, unlike Henderson who's blunder wouldn't really be captured in the stats as that would be a different shot).

I'd keep both of them for another year if I'm being honest, Dave in CL and cups, Henderson in league. Change the strategy once you're convinced either ways in Hendo - either he starts playing crucial CL ties as well or he loses place in league games as well.
given the number of games Henderson has played this season, we should be in a position to make a decision. Unfortunately I don’t think that’s the case, a year transition works well, I dont think 2 years does.

I personally really dislike the idea of a cup keeper, or having 2 keepers are are playing equal numbers of games. Especially when they are so different in their style of play.

id rather make a decision this summer - but think you are right, and this will go on until next season.

as an aside, who is no 1 for Spain? Does DDG wanting to be no 1 for them have a bearing on this?
 

Andersons Dietician

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That ranking is based on post-shot xG, it accounts for the fact that different shots have varying difficulties. Clearly, goalkeeping stats have to account for the fact that some shots are easier than others.

If you have some other stats worth looking at I'm happy to do so. But I hope you recognise that arguments along the lines of "What about that one time he played well" are not particularly convincing.
But XG is still something that does not include every possible variable. As I alluded to stats are only ever half a picture. Goals scored, Assists are just noise to me and I prefer how a player contributes to a team.

Personally I feel like Henderson makes a lot of basic errors he is yet to be punished for. Doesn’t move his feet well, goes with the wrong hand and at times is in no mans land as well as looking a little shaky and suspect when put under any sort of preassure.

I’d seen enough of DeGea before he’d come to United to know he’d come through and be good. Even when he was getting battered by the likes of Bolton and Blackburn he was showing he had something. I’ve yet to see this with Hendo that leads me to think he is the future.

Are there better keepers out there than DeGea at this moment. Yes, yes there is. Is it a position we desperately need to fill at the cost of say 60-80 mil? No, no it’s not, unless DeGea himself wants to leave.