No off the ball movement, no availability for passes.

[kouroux]

It's what makes so terrible this team so terrible to watch. Players just standing around and waiting for a miracle, as if the ball was going to move forward by itself. This was a pb under SAF and it still hasn't been close to being rectified.
Surely in a possession style football, you'd want these things to be applied no ? Why do our CBs have to be our playmakers and create opening by carrying the ball ? Why does it have to take them to do that ?

 

[LeftyBlaster]

The fault lies with management. Sorry I do agree that the players share part of the blame but there seems to be no effort being put into rectifying this extremely critical flaw.

 

[Sam]

Yep. Its been a problem for years and years. feck knows why.

 

[Speak]

I'm sorry to say that while these guys learnt how to win under Sir Alex, they clearly didn't learn how to win in style.
They won a hell of a lot of games through determination and match-winning forwards. Half of them look clueless now that the onus is on them to get the ball and play.

 

[RetroStu]

There was a point towards the end of the match where Jones had the ball coming into midfield and every UTD player ahead of him was stood still like a statue, Jones then had to pass back. This was when we were supposed to be 'going for it'.

You have to question if our players are happy with Van Gaal.

 

[Sam]

The only player that 'fixes' this problem is Herrera, and he's not allowed to play.

 

[kouroux]

I'm sorry to say that while these guys learnt how to win under Sir Alex, they clearly didn't learn how to win in style.
They won a hell of a lot of games through determination and match-winning forwards. Half of them look clueless now that the onus is on them to get the ball and play.

Yes and these issues have been blatant for a while. I'm sure similar threads were created time and time again before. When something so obvious is so wrong, why is no steps taken towards correcting it ? It seems absolutely crazy to me that with the players present in the team, we play such a disjointed style of football.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I liked the bit in the 2nd half where Valencia had the ball, tepidly trodded into the vast space infront of him and thought about driving into their box, instead of going further, stopped, turned and passed backwards to Herrera, was great, awesome coaching, pass sideways to infinity, no speed, no movement, nobody trying to commit there man, just pass aimlessly outside the box and retain 80% possession, yeeeah.

 

[RetroStu]

I liked the bit in the 2nd half where Valencia had the ball, tepidly trodded into the vast space infront of him and into their box, instead of going further, stopped, turned and passed backwards to Herrera, was great, awesome coaching, pass sideways to infinity, no speed, no movement, nobody trying to commit there man, just pass aimlessly outside the box and retain 80% possession, yeeeah.

Yep saw that, i laughed, i wasn't happy but all i could do was laugh.

 

[711]

kouroux for manager. No, I'm not being sarcastic, you're 100% right, especially in pointing out that it's not new. Three managers, bleeding baffling.

 

[LonelyFire]

Said it before, he's trying to play a brand of football that he doesn't have the players for.

Wrong thread but special mentions to Jones and Valencia for putting in two of the worst Utd performances I've seen.

 

[red_devil83]

Said it before, he's trying to play a brand of football that he doesn't have the players for.

Wrong thread but special mentions to Jones and Valencia for putting in two of the worst Utd performances I've seen.

Thought Jones was alright. Defended quite well, made some big tackles, didn't get injured

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Yep saw that, i laughed, i wasn't happy but all i could do was laugh.

Saw that too. Coward of a player.

 

[Walrus]

Ive been talking about this for weeks it feels like. Its been a huge problem with our midfield primarily for most of the season - especially when we were playing Rooney and Mata at CM, both of whom charge forward to join the attack at every opportunity, leaving nobody available to pass to in the middle of the pitch.

Carrick, Blind, Herrera and Fellaini are the players who actually make an effort to show for the ball and make themselves available. Blind is playing in defence and Fellaini needs to play centrally to utilise his strengths - not the wide role he seemed to have tonight.

 

[antsmithmk]

There isn't the bodies in the midfield with 5-3-2.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

I'd love to get some screenshots of that game, because at times the distances between players were criminal. I cannot believe that a guy versed in the ways of Total Football would instruct the players to position themselves as such. Whenever the CBs brought the ball past the halfway line, the players around would literally move further away and stand as close to the nearest Cambridge player as possible. Absolutely bizarre. May be a lack of confidence (shouldn't be); whatever the reason, it needs to be rectified. And as shit as Phil Jones, and his passing, was today, some of those long balls were almost forced by the persistent lack of movement.

Bizarre.

 

[J-Stander]

Thought Jones was alright. Defended quite well, made some big tackles, didn't get injured

Wouldn't count on that yet. We'll hear at next weeks press conference that he smashed his head getting on the team bus.

 

[Kounan]

It's what makes so terrible this team so terrible to watch. Players just standing around and waiting for a miracle, as if the ball was going to move forward by itself. This was a pb under SAF and it still hasn't been close to being rectified.
Surely in a possession style football, you'd want these things to be applied no ? Why do our CBs have to be our playmakers and create opening by carrying the ball ? Why does it have to take them to do that ?

The main reason Jones was so bad today. Where was he going to pass the ball, when nobody was free?

 

[Pexbo]

The only player that 'fixes' this problem is Herrera, and he's not allowed to play.

Everyone else expels their energy when we don't have the ball. Herrera expels his when we do have the ball. That's the huge difference between him and the rest and probably why Van Gaal isn't so keen.

 

[jem]

It's what makes so terrible this team so terrible to watch. Players just standing around and waiting for a miracle, as if the ball was going to move forward by itself. This was a pb under SAF and it still hasn't been close to being rectified.
Surely in a possession style football, you'd want these things to be applied no ? Why do our CBs have to be our playmakers and create opening by carrying the ball ? Why does it have to take them to do that ?

Exactly right. It's the same thing every god-damn week. Jones or some other mouth-breather dribbling it out, having a look, and then passing it backwards (or just hoofing it long.)

 

[red_devil83]

I'd love to get some screenshots of that game, because at times the distances between players were criminal. I cannot believe that a guy versed in the ways of Total Football would instruct the players to position themselves as such. Whenever the CBs brought the ball past the halfway line, the players around would literally move further away and stand as close to the nearest Cambridge player as possible. Absolutely bizarre. May be a lack of confidence (shouldn't be); whatever the reason, it needs to be rectified. And as shit as Phil Jones, and his passing, was today, some of those long balls were almost forced by the persistent lack of movement.

Bizarre.

This is exactly what was happening under Moyes. The distance between defence and what should be midfield is enormous. We need some players to just stay in the midfield and receive the ball

 

[jem]

Everyone else expels their energy when we don't have the ball. Herrera expels his when we do have the ball. That's the huge difference between him and the rest and probably why Van Gaal isn't so keen.

I'm not sure I understand. Herrera is lazy when not in possession and too active when he does have it?

 

[Charlie Foley]

On this topic, the difference Herrera made when he came on was incredible.

Blind is also very good at this when he's playing as a DM.

 

[Cassidy]

This is exactly what was happening under Moyes. The distance between defence and what should be midfield is enormous. We need some players to just stay in the midfield and receive the ball

This is why Blind needs to play centrally. Infact when we had Blind Herrera and Di Maria in the middle, all those 3 players we're rotating taking turns to come and take the ball out of defence. Why the feck did LVG go and change that for?

 

[jem]

This is exactly what was happening under Moyes. The distance between defence and what should be midfield is enormous. We need some players to just stay in the midfield and receive the ball

Might be time to get Blind back where he was playing at the beginning of the season.

 

[jem]

On this topic, the difference Herrera made when he came on was incredible.

Blind is also very good at this when he's playing as a DM.

I've been critical of Herrera, but he really does bring an ingredient that is sorely lacking: energy.

 

[Cassidy]

Everyone else expels their energy when we don't have the ball. Herrera expels his when we do have the ball. That's the huge difference between him and the rest and probably why Van Gaal isn't so keen.

Not even true. How many times did he win us the ball back today?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

There was when Herrera comes on. He is always available for a pass. It's disgusting Fellaini gets picked instead of him.

 

[Amethyst]

The only player that 'fixes' this problem is Herrera, and he's not allowed to play.

I agree. We played 4-4-2 supposedly but it may as well have been 3-5-2 because there was a huge gap between Carrick and our other midfielders. The first half in particular our centre backs just resorted to playing long balls over the top because Carrick was marked up.

 

[ottosec]

Whats the point of making a run when Valencia has the ball?

The movement of the strikers is not bad, the passes are not there, imo. Looks like only Carrick and Di Maria have the balls to try something and Carrick is usually very deep and ADM to high.

 

[Pexbo]

I'm not sure I understand. Herrera is lazy when not in possession and too active when he does have it?

Not "too active", it's a positive as far as I'm concerned, he works hard moving off the ball or with the ball trying to connect with others, create angles and space and generally get something happening. I wouldn't say he's lazy off the ball at all, he does his fair share but he does most of his work when we have the ball. It's a compliment.

 

[Hed Zitin]

This apart from chances created is what's really bugging me. He cannot get it out of the players. We know he can do it because we've bloody well seen his sides do it, but this lot do not get the concept of movement.

CB's that cannot pass, compounded by no movement. It's a recipe for disaster. Carrick doesn't help. He's been a statue for years. He's not the total blame, far from it, but our play starts from him.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Both our wide CBs are the last to blame for tonight's performance, they both played their part in our build up play by carrying the ball and creating overloads in the midfield. If there's one aspect of playing three at the back that has improved in the last matches, this is it.

The biggest problem is that we lack penetration through the middle channels. I believe that we managed to get Januzaj and Di Maria (and later Herrera) on the ball in threatening positions near the box but they just couldn't link well with the two forwards who were completely cut off from the rest of the team. This remains our biggest issue in the attacking half and it's true that LvG takes a risk by instructing the forwards to solely attack the channels between the CBs and remain in the most congested areas in front of the opposition's box. That leaves a lot of work for the midfielders and the WBs to do and limits the ways you can create numerical advantages up front. Our creative players seem to always be outnumbered and devoid of ideas.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I agree, and I just said this in the 'Post Match vs Cambridge United' thread. When Carrick, Jones and Rojo had the ball tonight, it was like everyone ran away from then and expected to just pick them out. Midifelders played way too high up the pitch and there was not a great amount of intelligent movement from our strikers.

 

[jem]

Not "too active", it's a positive as far as I'm concerned, he works hard moving off the ball or with the ball trying to connect with others, create angles and space and generally get something happening. I wouldn't say he's lazy off the ball at all, he does his fair share but he does most of his work when we have the ball. It's a compliment.

Ah ok. And I agree.

 

[Pexbo]

Not even true. How many times did he win us the ball back today?

I'm not criticising his defensive work.

 

[XdanielredX]

Yeah I've noticed it.

Passing back and sideways is good if you have runners off the ball up front, you pass patiently controlling the game until you have a good through ball to make or a good run caused by runners stretching the team.

But with no runners and players basically standing static we are left to literally just pass the ball back and sideways until we just eventually play a ball over the top and will generally get cleared by a well organised non-stretched defence.

 

[FreakyJim]

This has been going on for ages. I thought van Gaal would address that.

Watching Holland in the summer should've tipped me off.

 

[Catt]

This is something we've struggeled with for some time now. Last year under Moyes but also Fergies last two years, as far as I can remember.

 

[Cassidy]

I'm not criticising his defensive work.

Don't get it, what exactly do you mean? He expels all his energy when we have the ball, and when we don't the rest of the team expel their energy?
Not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious.