Nolan's Batman

[Mockney]

Right. Absolutely pointless discussion thread this but as an offshoot of a convo I was having in the newbies with gambit and some newbs, and a convo I had with Weaste in some other thread about it a while ago...Do those who've liked Nolan's Batmans (or not for that matter) think he should kill him in the 3rd one?

I do...

Sacrificial redemption ending, memorable and possibly epic closing chapter, closes Nolan's canon definitively, packs a punch that isn't just a partial re-tred of one of the earlier themes...works in his universe of semi-realism.

What say you?..If you care

 

[Gambit]

Retires him which allows Nolan and the crew to return at a much later date and do The Dark Knight returns properly, then they can kill him.

 

[Ubik]

Yup. As long as it isn't too sentimental anyway, but it's Nolan so we can trust him to do it well.

 

[Member 39557]

Yes, but I think he should die as Bruce Wayne. Maybe a villain finds out who he is and attacks him at a public event. He could die a hero whilst saving everybody as Bruce, rather than Batman.

 

[Mockney]

You mean outing him effectively before he pops it?

Retires him which allows Nolan and the crew to return at a much later date and do The Dark Knight returns properly, then they can kill him.

I don't think that's too bad really...I'd like to see someone have a crack at TDK returns. It's certainly a better idea than just re-booting Batman again...But I'm not sure a big director re-turning to his earlier glories has ever worked well...Godfather 3 and Indy & the Aliens spring to mind.

 

[Member 39557]

You mean outing him effectively before he pops it?

Yes, people then realise that the whole playboy thing was not what he was really about. It would also close the storyline that may/may not have begun from the ending of the Dark Knight where Batman is cast as a villain.

Both characters could be redeemed in the events of his heroic death.

 

[Pexbo]

Sadly in the movie industry killing off a character doesn't close anything. It could be an effective end to the film, but for those that think it would provide a good closure on the franchise will be upest when, because of the immense box office success, a prequel is commisioned.

I thought killing the protagonist was a complete no-no in a blockbuster anyway, especially when the survival of said protagonist throught the movie is a key element to the plot? It causes your average joe customer (99.9% of the audience) to leave feeling unfulfilled as they generally won't understand the nessessity for the character's death in relation to the story.

 

[golden_blunder]

no, definitely not. There are still loads of villans to introduce!

If and when, I'd like them to introduce Bane, who breaks Batman's back

 

[Mockney]

Sadly in the movie industry killing off a character doesn't close anything. It could be an effective end to the film, but for those that think it would provide a good closure on the franchise will be upest when, because of the immense box office success, a prequel is commisioned.

But it won't be Nolan's prequel...and can't be tied to his trilogy in the same way his can't be tied to Burton's but Schumacher's can..

no, definitely not. There are still loads of villans to introduce!

If and when, I'd like them to introduce Bane, who breaks Batman's back

A new Batman will be made whatever...Just not by Nolan. The trend of things says it'll probably revert back to slightly campy or unrealistic (although that seems unlikely now) ...This would just be a matter of making sure Nolan's story is left as it is, and closes in a perfect loop.

 

[Member 39557]

no, definitely not. There are still loads of villans to introduce!

If and when, I'd like them to introduce Bane, who breaks Batman's back

I remember that character from the overbloated Batman & Robin film. At least I think that was the one, he was with Poison Ivy.

 

[crappycraperson]

Sadly in the movie industry killing off a character doesn't close anything. It could be an effective end to the film, but for those that think it would provide a good closure on the franchise will be upest when, because of the immense box office success, a prequel is commisioned.

I thought killing the protagonist was a complete no-no in a blockbuster anyway, especially when the survival of said protagonist throught the movie is a key element to the plot? It causes your average joe customer (99.9% of the audience) to leave feeling unfulfilled as they generally won't understand the nessessity for the character's death in relation to the story.

Not sure how they will go about creating a prequel for Batman Begins.

 

[Gambit]

I remember that character from the overbloated Batman & Robin film. At least I think that was the one, he was with Poison Ivy.

Yeah the character in the comics is actually a warrior spirited vilain who travels the earth looking for challenges.

 

[Gambit]

You mean outing him effectively before he pops it?





I don't think that's too bad really...I'd like to see someone have a crack at TDK returns. It's certainly a better idea than just re-booting Batman again...But I'm not sure a big director re-turning to his earlier glories has ever worked well...Godfather 3 and Indy & the Aliens spring to mind.

Unlike the latter though there's a cracking story ready to be done and who doesn't want to see a finale of Superman v Batman.

 

[Gambit]

no, definitely not. There are still loads of villans to introduce!

If and when, I'd like them to introduce Bane, who breaks Batman's back

If you get a chance check out the latest animated film Under the Red Hood. Prety damn good GB.

 

[Xander45]

Unlike the latter though there's a cracking story ready to be done and who doesn't want to see a finale of Superman v Batman.

If they were to do a Dark Knight Returns film, wouldn't they have to introduce Superman into the next film? At the moment they seem to have kept the two worlds apart in the movie's version of the DC world.

 

[Member 39557]

Yeah the character in the comics is actually a warrior spirited vilain who travels the earth looking for challenges.

Ahh, might be ok. I would like to see a really sadistic Riddler, like a dark and brooding borderline psycho.

 

[Mockney]

Unlike the latter though there's a cracking story ready to be done and who doesn't want to see a finale of Superman v Batman.

Well me for a start...but then I'm not a big comic fan (in fact I'm not at all, I've only ever read the Watchmen and Frank Millers Batmans so I can't claim to know my shit really)...To me Batman and Superman must exist in different universes and the clamour to see them together is geekdom getting the better of itself...the whole idea of an all powerful, lazer beam eyed, unbeatable, flying alien shits all over the concept and uniqueness of Batman...especially in Nolan's universe. If I were doing TDK returns, I'd cut Superman out of it. Though granted it would be a different beast

 

[Gambit]

If they were to do a Dark Knight Returns film, wouldn't they have to introduce Superman into the next film? At the moment they seem to have kept the two worlds apart in the movie's version of the DC world.

Slight mentions here and there, but as Nolans currently advising on the Superman reboot, might not be that nes'.

 

[Pexbo]

Not sure how they will go about creating a prequel for Batman Begins.

Prequel could be set before any of the films, it could be before TDK or between TDK and the next one.

 

[Gambit]

Well me for a start...but then I'm not a big comic fan (in fact I'm not at all, I've only ever read the Watchmen and Frank Millers Batman's so I can't claim to know my shit really)...To me Batman and Superman must exist in different universes....the whole idea of an all powerful, lazer beam eyed, unbeatable, flying alien shits all over the concept and uniqueness of Batman...especially in Nolan's universe. If I were doing TDK returns, I'd cut Superman out of it. Though granted it would be a different beat

Trust me you'd love The Preacher.

 

[Mockney]

As long as it's unreliant on super powers I probably would...I thought Watchmen was superb and Frank Miller's take on Batman perfect...But I baulk at super super hero shit generally.

 

[Pexbo]

As long as it's unreliant on super powers I probably would...I thought Watchmen was superb and Frank Miller's take on Batman perfect...But I baulk at super super hero shit generally.

Watchmen is definately in my Top5 films of the last 5 years.

I was blown away when I watched it. It's better than TDK in my opinion.

 

[Gambit]

As long as it's unreliant on super powers I probably would...I thought Watchmen was superb and Frank Miller's take on Batman perfect...But I baulk at super super hero shit generally.

Trust me, this ones more up your ally. It's all about religion.

 

[Mockney]

...erm...not the film.

The film wasn't bad, but it was oddly boring for me, as it was essentially a shot for shot version of the comic with a weaker ending. The story is certainly one of the best Superhero stories though (that I know of I should add)

 

[Gambit]

Religion, westerns, bill hicks, vietnam, sodomising yorkshire detectives, a nirvana victim, secret cabals and most of all friendship to be a bit more precise.

 

[kietotheworld]

Super-powers aren't bad in themselves, you can make an immensely entertaining film that's extremely far removed from realism, but the unrealistic element really has to be included in the film universe from the beginning - Superman begins with 3 aliens being teleported into a giant triangle and shot through space, Star Trek beings with a space battle, Star Wars begins with a blurb explaining that a massive interplanetary empire exists. Given how close Nolan's Batman series has been to realism, bringing in a man with the ability to fly and shoot lasers from his eye wouldn't work - someone like the Joker, the Riddler, Bane, or even the penguin would though.

 

[Pexbo]

...erm...not the film.

The film wasn't bad, but it was oddly boring for me, as it was essentially a shot for shot version of the comic with a weaker ending. The story is certainly one of the best Superhero stories though

I haven't read the novel but one of my housemates is a big comic fan and he said it was the best adaptation of any of the comics so far. I just like the fact it wasn't paced for the computer game playing ADHD kids, it took it's time, built the scene, story and characters and the mood was fantastic. Similar to V for Vendetta in that sense, another film I loved.

 

[Gambit]

Super-powers aren't bad in themselves, you can make an immensely entertaining film that's extremely far removed from realism, but the unrealistic element really has to be included in the film universe from the beginning - Superman begins with 3 aliens being teleported into a giant triangle and shot through space, Star Trek beings with a space battle, Star Wars begins with a blurb explaining that a massive interplanetary empire exists. Given how close Nolan's Batman series has been to realism, bringing in a man with the ability to fly and shoot lasers from his eye wouldn't work - someone like the Joker, the Riddler, Bane, or even the penguin would though.

Disagree and trust me all those powers are absolutely useless to supes.

 

[Gambit]

I haven't read the novel but one of my housemates is a big comic fan and he said it was the best adaptation of any of the comics so far. I just like the fact it wasn't paced for the computer game playing ADHD kids, it took it's time, built the scene, story and characters and the mood was fantastic. Similar to V for Vendetta in that sense, another film I loved.

They are ok adaptions but reading the comics is a different experience.

 

[Xander45]

They even changed the joker so he wore make-up rather than his skin was dyed. So obviously they have been going for the more realistic approach and i've liked the results so far.

Riddler would work well but might be a bit too cheesy, same with Penguin. I think Bane would work fine, genetic drug testing gone wrong sort of thing.

 

[phelans shorts]

Personally I think black mask would be an excellent choice for any upcoming batman film, not been done before and would fit with ease into the Nolan universe.

More to the OP if done right it can carry on, however I would expect Nolan to know when the time is right to sever the ties, would he be allowed to by the bosses is re real question.

 

[Pexbo]

They are ok adaptions but reading the comics is a different experience.

Is that not how it should be though? Sin City tried to make it a similar experience and that was shite.

 

[Gambit]

They even changed the joker so he wore make-up rather than his skin was dyed. So obviously they have been going for the more realistic approach and i've liked it.

Riddler would work well but might be a bit too cheesy, same with Penguin. I think Bane would work fine, genetic drug testing gone wrong sort of thing.

Riddler as a zodiac style killer would work excellently.

 

[Xander45]

Riddler as a zodiac style killer would work excellently.

I hadn't thought of it like that, that would work a treat actually.

 

[Gambit]

Is that not how it should be though? Sin City tried to make it a similar experience and that was shite.

I enjoyed Sin City but I wouldn't class that as a similar experience to reading comics, just copying a visual style. Its an impossible thing to recreate on screen as it's a different communication system entirely.

 

[kps88]

Yep. Killing him would be the perfect ending in my book. Would put a definite spin on Nolan's batman saga.

I can't see it happening though. Don't think studio heads would be supportive of the idea.

 

[dumbo]

I personally thought The Dark Knight was grim and lifeless enough without the death of Batman.

I'd like to see David Cronenberg take a shot. History of Violence and Eastern Promises had a sense of villainy and drama that would be perfect for Batman.

 

[hungrywing]

The end of the last one sets up a story rife with "One Last Ride" undertones, IE most of the movie being about Bruce Wayne and him being on an involuntary sabbatical, exploring the possibility of shedding the Batman persona, slowly getting used to fighting social injustice as an influential public figure, slowly getting addicted to this new (yet oh-so-familiar) persona - 'beloved by the people, hated by the wicked'-

-then against the wishes of his inner circle, being forced/compelled/addicted to don the costume one last time.

That being said, I think they're going to bankrupt him and out him. Strip him of his financial clout, deny him his Batman persona, and you arrive at the essence, at the core of what makes him a hero (or not)...

Bruce Wayne, having to keep a low Bat-profile, instead turns to his alter-ego to find avenues to help Gotham. Tying in with you-know-who's "The day may come when Gotham no longer needs Batman..." speech. Bad guy (Riddler, probably) outs him and suddenly the entire core group of good guys: Gordon, Fox, all removed from power in that single stroke.

Into the vacated void of power pour new figures who seem like genuinely grateful blokes: thanks to Gordon's testimony they pardon Batman (not Bruce Wayne), but not without implying that Batman is never to make an appearance again. We've got everything under control now, thanks very much. They're not necessarily bad guys quite yet, but you can see them growing to like their money and power. Riddler taunts Bruce Wayne over how futile all his efforts really were, how his personal losses were all in vain, how silly his caped-crusader phase was in that light, how his escape into his Bruce Wayne-hood - regardless of his altruism - was just another form of all men's lust for power and adulation.

Then set the law on his Wayne persona. Batman is too respected to be punished, but Bruce Wayne is just a man. Have the government freeze his assets and tacitly allow his competitors at his family's empire and legacy, the citizens of Gotham watching as their Camelot crumbles, helpless to circumvent that which is Institution. He is nationally vilified, his political connections flee from him, and for the first time in a long time he feels truly powerless, trapped, frustrated, with no outlet, with the elusive Riddler serving as mouthpiece for his own confusion and self-doubt. Nothing, not even a man as powerful and well-connected as Bruce Wayne can break the rules mandated by society's aspirations towards civilization.

Is there nothing that can?

Yes, people then realise that the whole playboy thing was not what he was really about. It would also close the storyline that may/may not have begun from the ending of the Dark Knight where Batman is cast as a villain.

Both characters could be redeemed in the events of his heroic death.

Doesn't that sound, well, I don't want to say kiddie, but I wouldn't bet on Nolan going for something like that. That's very "Oh-poor-me-I'm-full-of-teenage-angst-and-no-one-really-understands-who-I-truly-am". They got that out of the way (wisely) in the first movie.

If they do kill him I'd wager it'd be in a way that he looks the villain except to the audience/circle of friends.

 

[MalibuKen]

Bring in The Black Mask

 

[The Taurean]

Batman isn't about Nolan.

There is still a lot of potential in the storyline. I believe the next one involves Riddler.
In the future I hope they bring out the story about Robin being manipulated by the Joker.