Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City

Fortitude

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Gerd Muller was an exceptional player within a team schematic and build-up. If you proclaim him just a goalscorer or finisher, you've not seen enough of him. It was long established that his contributions to the teams he was in had been understated or under-reported, probably because it's not the aesthetic majesty of others as prolific (Pele, Di Stefano and Puskas were the gold standards of the crossover between decades), but he was a huge contributor outside of his goalscoring prowess and there are plenty of accessible matches to prove it.

Haaland is a long, long way off Muller's off the ball work. Would be a feat for him to match, actually.
 

Cantona_7_

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I think people forget he is younger then Antony and Sancho. Its way to early to compair him with all time greats
 

HisNameIsEarl

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I really find it odd to talk about Haalands legacy and compare him to retired players. His career has just started and so much can happen, who knows.
 

FrankFoot

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As good as or better than Cristiano is possible since the primary strength of both is scoring. As good as pre injury R9? Doesn't have the talent to equal o fenomeno.

There has been such a player in the past in Gerd Muller. His scoring rate in whatever competition is astonishing. Yet he is considered below Cruijff and Backenbauer mainly due to limitations in other aspects of his game.

This is how Haaland will be looked at once everything is done and dusted.
Gerd Muller was actually a much better player on the ball than Haaland, he wasn't as good as Beckenbauer or Cruyff, but that doesn't mean he was bad at it.

Gerd Muller is a top 20 player in history, so it wouldn't be a bad thing for Haaland to emulate him.
 

troylocker

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Is football getting easier for attackers? I remember watching football in the early 2000’s and thinking that 20 goals was an excellent season for a striker. That only seems to be decent nowadays with players like Kane, Haaland, Salah etc hitting mid to high 20’s easily. I know some players hit big tally’s in the 90’s (Fowler, Shearer, Cole) but it seems more of a regular occurrence nowadays. Maybe it’s just me imagining it?

Not taking anything away from Haaland by the way. He’s incredible.
It is not getting easier. 20 goals is still a good, it's just not a world beater number. Only 4 times in the history of the PL would 20 goals be enough to win you the golden boot, while 9 times you'd need 30+ and 18 times you'd need 25+ goals

Topscorers in the PL (The PL has never been better btw):

In the 90's:
92/93 - 22
93/94 - 34
94/95 - 34
95/96 - 31
96/97 - 25
97/98 - 18
98/99 - 18
99/00 - 30

In the 00's:
00/01 - 23
01/02 - 24
02/03 - 25
03/04 - 30
04/05 - 25
05/06 - 27
06/07 - 20
07/08 - 31
08/09 - 19
09/10 - 29

In the 10's
10/11 - 20
11/12 - 30
12/13 - 26
13/14 - 31
14/15 - 26
15/16 - 25
16/17 - 29
17/18 - 32

Since the PL started having 38 game seasons in the 95/96 season (42 before that) and up to the 17/18 season the average goals needed to win the golden boot was 26 goals.

Since then:
18/19 - 22
19/20 - 23
20/21 - 22
21/22 - 23

The PL has never been stronger compared to the rest of Europe than in this period, and never has the gap between the bottom 5 and the top 5 teams in the league been smaller.

Haaland is the only one who is scoring at this level in Europe. The rest are not breaking any records, quite the contrary actually. Here's the topscorers in all competitions for players in the top 5 leagues this season:
Haaland 39 (1,25 goals/90)
Mbappe 31 (1,08 goals/90) (5 of those goals came in a match against a level 6 amateur team in the French cup)
Lewandowski 25 (0,84 goals/90)
Rashford 25 (0,71 goals/90)
Osimhen 23 (0,94 goals/90)
Kane 22 (0,60 goals/90)
Salah 22 (0,60 goals/90)

The thing many seems to not fully understand is how extreme what he's doing really is He is scoring more than anyone to ever play the game in Europe at his age. He isn't just a really good young goalscorer, he is the best European football has ever seen. In his first 8 months in England he's already the fastest to score 10 goals, 15 goals, 20 goals, 25 goals, 2 hattricks, 3 hattricks , 4 hattricks in the PL ever. He is also the fastest to 10 goals, 15 goals, 20 goals, 25 goals and 30 goals ever in the CL. Just as he was in the Bundesliga. He has already beaten City's 94 year old record for most goals in all comps in a single season (we're still only in March), and he'll most likely break the all time PL record in his debut season. He has a mindblowing 33 goals in 1866 minutes of CL football and just reached double digits in the CL for the 3rd time. He has the record for most goals in WC match for U20s (9 goals against Honduras). etc....

He is standing out so strongly that it's getting ridiculous.
Plenty of strikers are more impressive when it comes to dribbling, ballcarrying and playmaking, but he is so much better than anyone else when it comes to movement, physique, finishing, spacial awareness, reactions and end product. Even R9 pre injury.
He has a unique skillset and I think if City learns how to play more to his strenghts, what we're seeing now is low numbers. City and Haaland are still work in progress. He scored 4 non penalty goals on Tuesday and none of them were from passes from teammates...

@Zehner might not be impressed by any of this, but he should be. Would you really rather have Kane if you could choose? He contributes in defence and by occupying and moving defenders around (often two) too btw.

Unique talent and I expect every goalscoring record in European football to be broken by this guy.
Sad he went for the sportswashers on the wrong side of town.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Messages
4,190
It is not getting easier. 20 goals is still a good, it's just not a world beater number. Only 4 times in the history of the PL would 20 goals be enough to win you the golden boot, while 9 times you'd need 30+ and 18 times you'd need 25+ goals

Topscorers in the PL (The PL has never been better btw):

In the 90's:
92/93 - 22
93/94 - 34
94/95 - 34
95/96 - 31
96/97 - 25
97/98 - 18
98/99 - 18
99/00 - 30

In the 00's:
00/01 - 23
01/02 - 24
02/03 - 25
03/04 - 30
04/05 - 25
05/06 - 27
06/07 - 20
07/08 - 31
08/09 - 19
09/10 - 29

In the 10's
10/11 - 20
11/12 - 30
12/13 - 26
13/14 - 31
14/15 - 26
15/16 - 25
16/17 - 29
17/18 - 32

Since the PL started having 38 game seasons in the 95/96 season (42 before that) and up to the 17/18 season the average goals needed to win the golden boot was 26 goals.

Since then:
18/19 - 22
19/20 - 23
20/21 - 22
21/22 - 23

The PL has never been stronger compared to the rest of Europe than in this period, and never has the gap between the bottom 5 and the top 5 teams in the league been smaller.

Haaland is the only one who is scoring at this level in Europe. The rest are not breaking any records, quite the contrary actually. Here's the topscorers in all competitions for players in the top 5 leagues this season:
Haaland 39 (1,25 goals/90)
Mbappe 31 (1,08 goals/90) (5 of those goals came in a match against a level 6 amateur team in the French cup)
Lewandowski 25 (0,84 goals/90)
Rashford 25 (0,71 goals/90)
Osimhen 23 (0,94 goals/90)
Kane 22 (0,60 goals/90)
Salah 22 (0,60 goals/90)

The thing many seems to not fully understand is how extreme what he's doing really is He is scoring more than anyone to ever play the game in Europe at his age. He isn't just a really good young goalscorer, he is the best European football has ever seen. In his first 8 months in England he's already the fastest to score 10 goals, 15 goals, 20 goals, 25 goals, 2 hattricks, 3 hattricks , 4 hattricks in the PL ever. He is also the fastest to 10 goals, 15 goals, 20 goals, 25 goals and 30 goals ever in the CL. Just as he was in the Bundesliga. He has already beaten City's 94 year old record for most goals in all comps in a single season (we're still only in March), and he'll most likely break the all time PL record in his debut season. He has a mindblowing 33 goals in 1866 minutes of CL football and just reached double digits in the CL for the 3rd time. He has the record for most goals in WC match for U20s (9 goals against Honduras). etc....

He is standing out so strongly that it's getting ridiculous.
Plenty of strikers are more impressive when it comes to dribbling, ballcarrying and playmaking, but he is so much better than anyone else when it comes to movement, physique, finishing, spacial awareness, reactions and end product. Even R9 pre injury.
He has a unique skillset and I think if City learns how to play more to his strenghts, what we're seeing now is low numbers. City and Haaland are still work in progress. He scored 4 non penalty goals on Tuesday and none of them were from passes from teammates...

@Zehner might not be impressed by any of this, but he should be. Would you really rather have Kane if you could choose? He contributes in defence and by occupying and moving defenders around (often two) too btw.

Unique talent and I expect every goalscoring record in European football to be broken by this guy.
Sad he went for the sportswashers on the wrong side of town.
Great post. Yep a unique talent, can’t be compared directly to anyone. It’s very unusual for someone to be that quick and that big and strong, while also being so accurate and efficient in movement and shooting accuracy.

You have rapid forwards with a bit of physicality that can’t finish/shoot - like Nunez. You have rapid players who are great finishers lack a bit of physicality - like Aguero. You have players with physicality that are great finishers that lack a bit of pace - like Van Nistelrooy

Haaland is the lethal combination of physical and efficiency and hence his scoring records so far.
 

giorno

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I blame Guardiola for making people somehow lose sight that scoring goals is still by far the most valuable skill in football
 

mshnsh

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Gerd Muller was actually a much better player on the ball than Haaland, he wasn't as good as Beckenbauer or Cruyff, but that doesn't mean he was bad at it.

Gerd Muller is a top 20 player in history, so it wouldn't be a bad thing for Haaland to emulate him.
Probably but that is how he is perceived.

My point is that such relatively limited players can only be rated to a certain level and not beyond that.
You’re still talking about Gerd Muller 50 years after his peak, it would be great if Haaland was considered with the same reputation as Muller. He’d be around top 10 all time. Not sure why that’s a bad thing.

A lot of people consider Gerd Muller better than Ronaldo overall, career wise.
Muller is a great of the game. But no one considers him a better footballer than Brazilian Ronaldo although maybe some will say he had a better career which would be fair enough.

Similarly, Haaland is not as good a footballer as Brazilian Ronaldo at the same age, not even close.
They're not very similar as players, are they. Müller was small, not fast (although reportedly capable of very explosive bursts of speed over shorter distances) and not exactly noted for his athleticism (heavy smoker). Other than that they both scored a lot of goals, why compare them?

These player comparisons really misses the point, which is that there has probably never been a player quite like Haaland - with that combination of pace, power, movement and scoring ability.
Add much better technique and dribbling and quite literally you have Ronaldo fenemeno.

Anyway, I rate Haaland as a goalscorer (may go on to become thd greatest goalscorer ever) but his limitations in other aspect means that there is a maximum level he can be rated at which would be lower than quite a few all time greats.
 

Oly Francis

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I blame Guardiola for making people somehow lose sight that scoring goals is still by far the most valuable skill in football
I blame math teachers for making people somehow lose sight that 2+2+2 will always be more than 5.
 

Klopper76

"Did you see Fabinho against Red Star & Cardiff?"
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It is not getting easier. 20 goals is still a good, it's just not a world beater number. Only 4 times in the history of the PL would 20 goals be enough to win you the golden boot, while 9 times you'd need 30+ and 18 times you'd need 25+ goals

Topscorers in the PL (The PL has never been better btw):

In the 90's:
92/93 - 22
93/94 - 34
94/95 - 34
95/96 - 31
96/97 - 25
97/98 - 18
98/99 - 18
99/00 - 30

In the 00's:
00/01 - 23
01/02 - 24
02/03 - 25
03/04 - 30
04/05 - 25
05/06 - 27
06/07 - 20
07/08 - 31
08/09 - 19
09/10 - 29

In the 10's
10/11 - 20
11/12 - 30
12/13 - 26
13/14 - 31
14/15 - 26
15/16 - 25
16/17 - 29
17/18 - 32

Since the PL started having 38 game seasons in the 95/96 season (42 before that) and up to the 17/18 season the average goals needed to win the golden boot was 26 goals.

Since then:
18/19 - 22
19/20 - 23
20/21 - 22
21/22 - 23

The PL has never been stronger compared to the rest of Europe than in this period, and never has the gap between the bottom 5 and the top 5 teams in the league been smaller.

Haaland is the only one who is scoring at this level in Europe. The rest are not breaking any records, quite the contrary actually. Here's the topscorers in all competitions for players in the top 5 leagues this season:
Haaland 39 (1,25 goals/90)
Mbappe 31 (1,08 goals/90) (5 of those goals came in a match against a level 6 amateur team in the French cup)
Lewandowski 25 (0,84 goals/90)
Rashford 25 (0,71 goals/90)
Osimhen 23 (0,94 goals/90)
Kane 22 (0,60 goals/90)
Salah 22 (0,60 goals/90)

The thing many seems to not fully understand is how extreme what he's doing really is He is scoring more than anyone to ever play the game in Europe at his age. He isn't just a really good young goalscorer, he is the best European football has ever seen. In his first 8 months in England he's already the fastest to score 10 goals, 15 goals, 20 goals, 25 goals, 2 hattricks, 3 hattricks , 4 hattricks in the PL ever. He is also the fastest to 10 goals, 15 goals, 20 goals, 25 goals and 30 goals ever in the CL. Just as he was in the Bundesliga. He has already beaten City's 94 year old record for most goals in all comps in a single season (we're still only in March), and he'll most likely break the all time PL record in his debut season. He has a mindblowing 33 goals in 1866 minutes of CL football and just reached double digits in the CL for the 3rd time. He has the record for most goals in WC match for U20s (9 goals against Honduras). etc....

He is standing out so strongly that it's getting ridiculous.
Plenty of strikers are more impressive when it comes to dribbling, ballcarrying and playmaking, but he is so much better than anyone else when it comes to movement, physique, finishing, spacial awareness, reactions and end product. Even R9 pre injury.
He has a unique skillset and I think if City learns how to play more to his strenghts, what we're seeing now is low numbers. City and Haaland are still work in progress. He scored 4 non penalty goals on Tuesday and none of them were from passes from teammates...

@Zehner might not be impressed by any of this, but he should be. Would you really rather have Kane if you could choose? He contributes in defence and by occupying and moving defenders around (often two) too btw.

Unique talent and I expect every goalscoring record in European football to be broken by this guy.
Sad he went for the sportswashers on the wrong side of town.
Well that’s me told. Very good post.
 

Oly Francis

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Same. Possession is more important than making the ball cross the goal line because you get more points per minute the ball is in your possession
You do realize that Guardiola holds the record of most "ball crossing the line" over a season in the history of the premier league right?
 

giorno

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You do realize that Guardiola holds the record of most "ball crossing the line" over a season in the history of the premier league right?
You do realize City have scored the most goals after 27 games since the 18/19 season right? And that Haaland in fact plays for them?
 

Oly Francis

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You do realize City have scored the most goals after 27 games since the 18/19 season right? And that Haaland in fact plays for them?
That's a very bad way to analyse results. The number of goals only is almost irrelevant when you score 5 goals in a game and 0 in the other against a poor team. When one player represents most of your goal total, you have a big risk of drawing/loosing the game when said player is not having a good night or is well defended/no involved. When the same goal total is spread over 4 or 5 different players, if one is having a bad night, 2 or 3 others can pick the scoring up. I should know, I'm a PSG supporter and we've been relying far too much on Mbappé for years now.

It's pretty laughable to see people here trying to teach Guardiola how to make his team score goals in the PL and what he needs to expect from his players.
 

giorno

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That's a very bad way to analyse results. The number of goals only is almost irrelevant when you score 5 goals in a game and 0 in the other against a poor team. When one player represents most of your goal total, you have a big risk of drawing/loosing the game when said player is not having a good night or is well defended/no involved. When the same goal total is spread over 4 or 5 different players, if one is having a bad night, 2 or 3 others can pick the scoring up. I should know, I'm a PSG supporter and we've been relying far too much on Mbappé for years now.
Real Madrid have the european record for most consecutive games with at least 1 goal. The team with Cristiano Ronaldo scoring almost 50% of their goals. When one player represents so much of of your goals total and you're scoring for fun, if he's well defended then most likely others are not. Players like Haaland warp defenses by their very presence. They often warp the opponents game plans outright.

It's pretty laughable to see people here trying to teach Guardiola how to make his team score goals in the PL and what he needs to expect from his players.
Clearly. Guardiola, the manager of the superteam that spread the goals around and then went and signed Haaland.
 

Oly Francis

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Real Madrid have the european record for most consecutive games with at least 1 goal. The team with Cristiano Ronaldo scoring almost 50% of their goals. When one player represents so much of of your goals total and you're scoring for fun, if he's well defended then most likely others are not. Players like Haaland warp defenses by their very presence. They often warp the opponents game plans outright.
You can spin it the way you want, the truth is City had far more games this season when they looked uninspired with Haaland only touching the ball 20-30 times (I'm not saying he solely bears the responsability). When the team is in tune (and with luck) he scores 5, when its not they draw against Leipzig, Nottingham Forrest, Everton or loose to Brenford. It's a polarized strategy that rarely works in football. 2+2+2 will always be better than 5.
 

giorno

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Make up your mind. Either Guardiola knows how best to make his team score goals, or he doesn't
 

adexkola

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I blame Guardiola for making people somehow lose sight that scoring goals is still by far the most valuable skill in football
I remember seeing a tweet of the best PL goals in December 2006, and they were all bangers from outside the box. Scholes (i think he won), Lampard, Drogba, even Huddlestone was in... Something like "we don't see these types of goals anymore"

A comment under the tweet: "I blame Pep" :lol:

What hasn't he been at fault for?
 

Wilt

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Messages
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It is not getting easier. 20 goals is still a good, it's just not a world beater number. Only 4 times in the history of the PL would 20 goals be enough to win you the golden boot, while 9 times you'd need 30+ and 18 times you'd need 25+ goals

Topscorers in the PL (The PL has never been better btw):

In the 90's:
92/93 - 22
93/94 - 34
94/95 - 34
95/96 - 31
96/97 - 25
97/98 - 18
98/99 - 18
99/00 - 30

In the 00's:
00/01 - 23
01/02 - 24
02/03 - 25
03/04 - 30
04/05 - 25
05/06 - 27
06/07 - 20
07/08 - 31
08/09 - 19
09/10 - 29

In the 10's
10/11 - 20
11/12 - 30
12/13 - 26
13/14 - 31
14/15 - 26
15/16 - 25
16/17 - 29
17/18 - 32

Since the PL started having 38 game seasons in the 95/96 season (42 before that) and up to the 17/18 season the average goals needed to win the golden boot was 26 goals.

Since then:
18/19 - 22
19/20 - 23
20/21 - 22
21/22 - 23

The PL has never been stronger compared to the rest of Europe than in this period, and never has the gap between the bottom 5 and the top 5 teams in the league been smaller.

Haaland is the only one who is scoring at this level in Europe. The rest are not breaking any records, quite the contrary actually. Here's the topscorers in all competitions for players in the top 5 leagues this season:
Haaland 39 (1,25 goals/90)
Mbappe 31 (1,08 goals/90) (5 of those goals came in a match against a level 6 amateur team in the French cup)
Lewandowski 25 (0,84 goals/90)
Rashford 25 (0,71 goals/90)
Osimhen 23 (0,94 goals/90)
Kane 22 (0,60 goals/90)
Salah 22 (0,60 goals/90)

The thing many seems to not fully understand is how extreme what he's doing really is He is scoring more than anyone to ever play the game in Europe at his age. He isn't just a really good young goalscorer, he is the best European football has ever seen. In his first 8 months in England he's already the fastest to score 10 goals, 15 goals, 20 goals, 25 goals, 2 hattricks, 3 hattricks , 4 hattricks in the PL ever. He is also the fastest to 10 goals, 15 goals, 20 goals, 25 goals and 30 goals ever in the CL. Just as he was in the Bundesliga. He has already beaten City's 94 year old record for most goals in all comps in a single season (we're still only in March), and he'll most likely break the all time PL record in his debut season. He has a mindblowing 33 goals in 1866 minutes of CL football and just reached double digits in the CL for the 3rd time. He has the record for most goals in WC match for U20s (9 goals against Honduras). etc....

He is standing out so strongly that it's getting ridiculous.
Plenty of strikers are more impressive when it comes to dribbling, ballcarrying and playmaking, but he is so much better than anyone else when it comes to movement, physique, finishing, spacial awareness, reactions and end product. Even R9 pre injury.
He has a unique skillset and I think if City learns how to play more to his strenghts, what we're seeing now is low numbers. City and Haaland are still work in progress. He scored 4 non penalty goals on Tuesday and none of them were from passes from teammates...

@Zehner might not be impressed by any of this, but he should be. Would you really rather have Kane if you could choose? He contributes in defence and by occupying and moving defenders around (often two) too btw.

Unique talent and I expect every goalscoring record in European football to be broken by this guy.
Sad he went for the sportswashers on the wrong side of town.
Good post ….interesting read
 

justsomebloke

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Messages
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Add much better technique and dribbling and quite literally you have Ronaldo fenemeno.

Anyway, I rate Haaland as a goalscorer (may go on to become thd greatest goalscorer ever) but his limitations in other aspect means that there is a maximum level he can be rated at which would be lower than quite a few all time greats.
I don't think he had quite that level of pace and power. Also, he did not score goals at that rate, certainly not when he was Haaland's age. And as you note, he had technical and dribbling skills that Haaland doesn't. Which adds up to two quite different players.
 

mancimanc

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god help this guy next year. How many goals will he get then as doesnt it take city player 12 month.

also unfortunatly he doesnt have a release clause because apparently it become void when pep signed his new deal. so looks like the fecker is sticking around.
 

PoTMS

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Barcelona or Madrid better come sniffing but he's a City player so of course they won't.
 

Nero

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It's really time to get off his dick. We're way past the need to bump his thread every time he scores a goal.
 

El Jefe

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A few weeks ago during his dry spell, people really tried to say Kane was better :lol: