Nostalgia Draft - Winner - Isotope

TheReligion said:
Beppe Signori was on my radar. Just wasn't sure about him internationally. Domestic monster though. James Richardson. Newspaper. Espresso. Boom.
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Agreed with that and that explains why he went in the sixth round instead of earlier, despite being a hot shot in the 90s Serie A. His poor International showing can partially be explained by mismanagement* by Sacchi (with whom he didn't particularly get on with) but ultimately Signori needs to shoulder some of responsibility for his failings on the international stage too. Cracking player to watch though.

* It's kind of a general theme with Italian forwards and mismanagent from that period imo, with Del Piero, Totti, Zola, Signori etc all failing to exhibit, or consistently exhibit, their club form for Italy. Baggio was brilliant but it seemed more as though he shined in spite of the tactics and management, rather than due to it.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Agreed with that and that explains why he went in the sixth round instead of earlier, despite being a hot shot in the 90s Serie A. His poor International showing can partially be explained by mismanagement* by Sacchi (with whom he didn't particularly get on with) but ultimately Signori needs to shoulder some of responsibility for his failings on the international stage too. Cracking player to watch though.

* It's kind of a general theme with Italian forwards and mismanagent from that period imo, with Del Piero, Totti, Zola, Signori etc all failing to exhibit, or consistently exhibit, their club form for Italy. Baggio was brilliant but it seemed more as though he shined in spite of the tactics and management, rather than due to it.
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Yeah interesting wider point you make. Why do you think that was the case? Obviously some top managers in Italy at the time and it was arguably peak Serie A.
 
TheReligion said:
Yeah interesting wider point you make. Why do you think that was the case? Obviously some top managers in Italy at the time and it was arguably peak Serie A.
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You could say the exact same thing about Milan, Cappello and Savicevic.

They were just too defensive and unable to exploit real genius players.

Lest we forget, Savicevic's stonking performance against the Dream Team was IN SPITE of Cappello. Can't quite remember who, there were at least 3 injured and one definitely was Baresi, so he rolled the dice doing what he otherwise wouldn't do in a million years and played a more open attacking game.

Bizarre game that. The uber attacking Dream Team had Milan there for the taking and benched Laudrup, and the ultra defensive Milan ran riot instead.
 
TheReligion said:
Yeah interesting wider point you make. Why do you think that was the case? Obviously some top managers in Italy at the time and it was arguably peak Serie A.
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Sacchi tbh. He was too inflexible and pigheaded with his tactics and philosophy. He was brilliant for Milan but flopped at Italy imo. Signori being utilized at LM because he was versatile with Casiraghi playing up front... Signori refused to play at LM anymore and was dropped for the 94 WC final as a result.

Also the Italians always seemed to prioritize defense and a solid set up, with the forwards and creative players slotting in, as opposed to building their sides around their attacking players. I recall reading about Zola leaving Parma because he was forced out wide in a rigid 4-4-2 with Ancelotti of all people unsure of how to fit in Zola, preferring to go with 2 forwards up top. He'd change and become more flexible in his approach as he went on obviously (with Baggio opening his eyes to the magic of a proper #10 iirc).

Also the fact that there was some overlap amongst those creative forwards (you can throw in Mancini too) didn't help, esp with the rigid tactical set ups that were utilized by Italian coaches in general and esp Sacchi for Italy who was uncompromising despite being a revolutionary coach imo. Didn't help that he had a habit of falling out with his players too...
 
By the way @Isotope just got off the phone with Paolo and he is delighted I was right all along and apologised for giving me dog's abuse earlier.
 
I see people are far more chilled about unpicked player mentions these days :lol:
 
Joga Bonito said:
Sacchi tbh. He was too inflexible and pigheaded with his tactics and philosophy. He was brilliant for Milan but flopped at Italy imo. Signori being utilized at LM because he was versatile with *** playing up front... Signori refused to play at LM anymore and was dropped for the 94 WC final as a result.
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Certainly was a weird case. He was playing LM in Group stages and was exceptionally good. Whenever I read about his, his game vs Norway always comes up. He was great and suddenly he threw a fit and got kicked out.
 


How convenient that a kind soul has been making Ayala comps over the past few weeks :lol:
 
1. Iso 1) Ronaldo 2) L. Figo 3) Kaka 4) C. Ferrara 5) G. Bergomi 6) P. Montero 7) F. Ribery
2. Joga 1) Xavi 2) M. Laudrup 3) P. Lahm 4) P. Evra 5) S. Busquets 6) G. Signori 7) R. Ayala
3. P-Nut 1) P. Maldini 2) J. Stam 3) P. Vieira 4) L. Matthaus 5) D. Bergkamp 6) Leonardo
4. Harms 1) C. Ronaldo 2) A. Iniesta 3) R. Ferdinand 4) N. Vidic 5) Dunga 6. G. Mendieta
5. Beam 1) A. Nesta 2) S. Eto'o 3) Maicon 4) W. Rooney 5) A. Vidal 6) D. Drogba
6. Skizzo 1) Z. Zidane 2) T. Henry 3) R. Giggs 4) D. Deschamps 5) F. Hierro 6) P. Schmeichel
7. antohan 1) R. Carlos 2) J. Zanetti 3) M. Sammer 4) Luis Enrique 5) C. Puyol 6) G. Chiellini
8. Michael 1) F. Redondo 2) J.R. Riquelme 3) F. Cannavaro 4) Del Piero 5) D. Simeone 6) Zé Roberto
9. TheReligion 1) B. Lizarazu 2) Dani Alves 3) C. Makelele 4) C. Seedorf 5) G. Hagi 6) G. Weah
10. EAP 1) F. Baresi 2) Cafu 3) J. Kohler 4) R. van Nistelrooy 5) F. Totti 6) M. Essien
11. Enigma 1) Ronaldinho 2) E. Davids 3) B. Schweinsteiger 4) D. Villa 5) P. McGrath 6) D. Irwin
12. Gio/Theon 1) Romario 2) H. Stoichkov 3) A. Pirlo 4) F. Rijkaard 5) A. Robben 6) E. Abidal
13. Boris 1) G. Batistuta 2) P. Nedved 3) X. Alonso 4) M Rui Costa 5) S Campbell 6) G. Zambrotta
14. Sjor 1) P. Scholes 2) R. Keane 3) R. Carvalho 4) D. Beckham 5) A. Costacurta 6) D. Savicevic
15. Himann 1) R. Baggio 2) M. Desailly 3) A.Cole 4) L. Blanc 5) P. Gascoigne 6) R. Gullit
16. Physio 1) Rivaldo 2) L.Thuram 3) A. Shevchenko 4) T. Silva 5) Vieri 6) Benarrivo
 
1. Iso 1) Ronaldo 2) L. Figo 3) Kaka 4) C. Ferrara 5) G. Bergomi 6) P. Montero 7) F. Ribery
2. Joga 1) Xavi 2) M. Laudrup 3) P. Lahm 4) P. Evra 5) S. Busquets 6) G. Signori 7) R. Ayala
3. P-Nut 1) P. Maldini 2) J. Stam 3) P. Vieira 4) L. Matthaus 5) D. Bergkamp 6) Leonardo
4. Harms 1) C. Ronaldo 2) A. Iniesta 3) R. Ferdinand 4) N. Vidic 5) Dunga 6) G. Mendieta 7) J. Litmanen
5. Beam 1) A. Nesta 2) S. Eto'o 3) Maicon 4) W. Rooney 5) A. Vidal 6) D. Drogba
6. Skizzo 1) Z. Zidane 2) T. Henry 3) R. Giggs 4) D. Deschamps 5) F. Hierro 6) P. Schmeichel
7. antohan 1) R. Carlos 2) J. Zanetti 3) M. Sammer 4) Luis Enrique 5) C. Puyol 6) G. Chiellini
8. Michael 1) F. Redondo 2) J.R. Riquelme 3) F. Cannavaro 4) Del Piero 5) D. Simeone 6) Zé Roberto
9. TheReligion 1) B. Lizarazu 2) Dani Alves 3) C. Makelele 4) C. Seedorf 5) G. Hagi 6) G. Weah
10. EAP 1) F. Baresi 2) Cafu 3) J. Kohler 4) R. van Nistelrooy 5) F. Totti 6) M. Essien
11. Enigma 1) Ronaldinho 2) E. Davids 3) B. Schweinsteiger 4) D. Villa 5) P. McGrath 6) D. Irwin
12. Gio/Theon 1) Romario 2) H. Stoichkov 3) A. Pirlo 4) F. Rijkaard 5) A. Robben 6) E. Abidal
13. Boris 1) G. Batistuta 2) P. Nedved 3) X. Alonso 4) M Rui Costa 5) S Campbell 6) G. Zambrotta
14. Sjor 1) P. Scholes 2) R. Keane 3) R. Carvalho 4) D. Beckham 5) A. Costacurta 6) D. Savicevic
15. Himann 1) R. Baggio 2) M. Desailly 3) A.Cole 4) L. Blanc 5) P. Gascoigne 6) R. Gullit
16. Physio 1) Rivaldo 2) L.Thuram 3) A. Shevchenko 4) T. Silva 5) Vieri 6) Benarrivo

@Jim Beam
 
1. Iso 1) Ronaldo 2) L. Figo 3) Kaka 4) C. Ferrara 5) G. Bergomi 6) P. Montero 7) F. Ribery
2. Joga 1) Xavi 2) M. Laudrup 3) P. Lahm 4) P. Evra 5) S. Busquets 6) G. Signori 7) R. Ayala
3. P-Nut 1) P. Maldini 2) J. Stam 3) P. Vieira 4) L. Matthaus 5) D. Bergkamp 6) Leonardo 7) Overmars
4. Harms 1) C. Ronaldo 2) A. Iniesta 3) R. Ferdinand 4) N. Vidic 5) Dunga 6) G. Mendieta 7) J. Litmanen
5. Beam 1) A. Nesta 2) S. Eto'o 3) Maicon 4) W. Rooney 5) A. Vidal 6) D. Drogba
6. Skizzo 1) Z. Zidane 2) T. Henry 3) R. Giggs 4) D. Deschamps 5) F. Hierro 6) P. Schmeichel
7. antohan 1) R. Carlos 2) J. Zanetti 3) M. Sammer 4) Luis Enrique 5) C. Puyol 6) G. Chiellini
8. Michael 1) F. Redondo 2) J.R. Riquelme 3) F. Cannavaro 4) Del Piero 5) D. Simeone 6) Zé Roberto
9. TheReligion 1) B. Lizarazu 2) Dani Alves 3) C. Makelele 4) C. Seedorf 5) G. Hagi 6) G. Weah
10. EAP 1) F. Baresi 2) Cafu 3) J. Kohler 4) R. van Nistelrooy 5) F. Totti 6) M. Essien
11. Enigma 1) Ronaldinho 2) E. Davids 3) B. Schweinsteiger 4) D. Villa 5) P. McGrath 6) D. Irwin
12. Gio/Theon 1) Romario 2) H. Stoichkov 3) A. Pirlo 4) F. Rijkaard 5) A. Robben 6) E. Abidal
13. Boris 1) G. Batistuta 2) P. Nedved 3) X. Alonso 4) M Rui Costa 5) S Campbell 6) G. Zambrotta
14. Sjor 1) P. Scholes 2) R. Keane 3) R. Carvalho 4) D. Beckham 5) A. Costacurta 6) D. Savicevic
15. Himann 1) R. Baggio 2) M. Desailly 3) A.Cole 4) L. Blanc 5) P. Gascoigne 6) R. Gullit
16. Physio 1) Rivaldo 2) L.Thuram 3) A. Shevchenko 4) T. Silva 5) Vieri 6) Benarrivo

@Jim Beam
 
Joga Bonito said:
Also the Italians always seemed to prioritize defense and a solid set up, with the forwards and creative players slotting in, as opposed to building their sides around their attacking players. I recall reading about Zola leaving Parma because he was forced out wide in a rigid 4-4-2 with Ancelotti of all people unsure of how to fit in Zola, preferring to go with 2 forwards up top. He'd change and become more flexible in his approach as he went on obviously (with Baggio opening his eyes to the magic of a proper #10 iirc).
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Yeah, Ancelotti seems to be the most visually striking example that explains this conundrum. Imagine just starting out as a manager at Parma and vetoing Roberto fecking Baggio because you don't want to change your formation to fit him in!
 
Joga Bonito said:
Sacchi tbh. He was too inflexible and pigheaded with his tactics and philosophy. He was brilliant for Milan but flopped at Italy imo. Signori being utilized at LM because he was versatile with Casiraghi playing up front... Signori refused to play at LM anymore and was dropped for the 94 WC final as a result.

Also the Italians always seemed to prioritize defense and a solid set up, with the forwards and creative players slotting in, as opposed to building their sides around their attacking players. I recall reading about Zola leaving Parma because he was forced out wide in a rigid 4-4-2 with Ancelotti of all people unsure of how to fit in Zola, preferring to go with 2 forwards up top. He'd change and become more flexible in his approach as he went on obviously (with Baggio opening his eyes to the magic of a proper #10 iirc).

Also the fact that there was some overlap amongst those creative forwards (you can throw in Mancini too) didn't help, esp with the rigid tactical set ups that were utilized by Italian coaches in general and esp Sacchi for Italy who was uncompromising despite being a revolutionary coach imo. Didn't help that he had a habit of falling out with his players too...
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Aye. On the face of it reaching the 1994 final was an achievement (reliant as it was on good fortune against Nigeria and Spain), but the failures to qualify for Euro '92 and to get out of the group stages at Euro '96 was a failure of management. The problem those Italian teams had throughout that period, and at the 1990 World Cup as well, was a lack of goals. The tactical ridigity and reliance on Baggio to win games all by himself was not effective management. When you consider how deep the talent pool was in Serie A (the league providing 10 of the 14 finalists in the UEFA Cup between 1989 and 1995), they should have been reaching the semi-final or better of every tournament. There were plenty of attacking options many of whom were either consigned to the wilderness or had to single-handedly provide the creative threat for the entire team.
 
1. Iso 1) Ronaldo 2) L. Figo 3) Kaka 4) C. Ferrara 5) G. Bergomi 6) P. Montero 7) F. Ribery
2. Joga 1) Xavi 2) M. Laudrup 3) P. Lahm 4) P. Evra 5) S. Busquets 6) G. Signori 7) R. Ayala
3. P-Nut 1) P. Maldini 2) J. Stam 3) P. Vieira 4) L. Matthaus 5) D. Bergkamp 6) Leonardo 7) Overmars
4. Harms 1) C. Ronaldo 2) A. Iniesta 3) R. Ferdinand 4) N. Vidic 5) Dunga 6) G. Mendieta 7) J. Litmanen
5. Beam 1) A. Nesta 2) S. Eto'o 3) Maicon 4) W. Rooney 5) A. Vidal 6) D. Drogba
6. Skizzo 1) Z. Zidane 2) T. Henry 3) R. Giggs 4) D. Deschamps 5) F. Hierro 6) P. Schmeichel 7) M. Ballack
7. antohan 1) R. Carlos 2) J. Zanetti 3) M. Sammer 4) Luis Enrique 5) C. Puyol 6) G. Chiellini
8. Michael 1) F. Redondo 2) J.R. Riquelme 3) F. Cannavaro 4) Del Piero 5) D. Simeone 6) Zé Roberto
9. TheReligion 1) B. Lizarazu 2) Dani Alves 3) C. Makelele 4) C. Seedorf 5) G. Hagi 6) G. Weah
10. EAP 1) F. Baresi 2) Cafu 3) J. Kohler 4) R. van Nistelrooy 5) F. Totti 6) M. Essien
11. Enigma 1) Ronaldinho 2) E. Davids 3) B. Schweinsteiger 4) D. Villa 5) P. McGrath 6) D. Irwin
12. Gio/Theon 1) Romario 2) H. Stoichkov 3) A. Pirlo 4) F. Rijkaard 5) A. Robben 6) E. Abidal
13. Boris 1) G. Batistuta 2) P. Nedved 3) X. Alonso 4) M Rui Costa 5) S Campbell 6) G. Zambrotta
14. Sjor 1) P. Scholes 2) R. Keane 3) R. Carvalho 4) D. Beckham 5) A. Costacurta 6) D. Savicevic
15. Himann 1) R. Baggio 2) M. Desailly 3) A.Cole 4) L. Blanc 5) P. Gascoigne 6) R. Gullit
16. Physio 1) Rivaldo 2) L.Thuram 3) A. Shevchenko 4) T. Silva 5) Vieri 6) Benarrivo
 
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It's turn 7 and the timeline is 1992-2012

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Remember that monster Jesús Gil saving a penny on the cantera? This looks the same boy, hope you pay back as handsomely to me and as brutally to others :devil:

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1. Iso 1) Ronaldo 2) L. Figo 3) Kaka 4) C. Ferrara 5) G. Bergomi 6) P. Montero 7) F. Ribery
2. Joga 1) Xavi 2) M. Laudrup 3) P. Lahm 4) P. Evra 5) S. Busquets 6) G. Signori 7) R. Ayala
3. P-Nut 1) P. Maldini 2) J. Stam 3) P. Vieira 4) L. Matthaus 5) D. Bergkamp 6) Leonardo 7) Overmars
4. Harms 1) C. Ronaldo 2) A. Iniesta 3) R. Ferdinand 4) N. Vidic 5) Dunga 6) G. Mendieta 7) J. Litmanen
5. Beam 1) A. Nesta 2) S. Eto'o 3) Maicon 4) W. Rooney 5) A. Vidal 6) D. Drogba
6. Skizzo 1) Z. Zidane 2) T. Henry 3) R. Giggs 4) D. Deschamps 5) F. Hierro 6) P. Schmeichel 7) M. Ballack
7. antohan 1) R. Carlos 2) J. Zanetti 3) M. Sammer 4) Luis Enrique 5) C. Puyol 6) G. Chiellini 7) Raúl
8. Michael 1) F. Redondo 2) J.R. Riquelme 3) F. Cannavaro 4) Del Piero 5) D. Simeone 6) Zé Roberto
9. TheReligion 1) B. Lizarazu 2) Dani Alves 3) C. Makelele 4) C. Seedorf 5) G. Hagi 6) G. Weah
10. EAP 1) F. Baresi 2) Cafu 3) J. Kohler 4) R. van Nistelrooy 5) F. Totti 6) M. Essien
11. Enigma 1) Ronaldinho 2) E. Davids 3) B. Schweinsteiger 4) D. Villa 5) P. McGrath 6) D. Irwin
12. Gio/Theon 1) Romario 2) H. Stoichkov 3) A. Pirlo 4) F. Rijkaard 5) A. Robben 6) E. Abidal
13. Boris 1) G. Batistuta 2) P. Nedved 3) X. Alonso 4) M Rui Costa 5) S Campbell 6) G. Zambrotta
14. Sjor 1) P. Scholes 2) R. Keane 3) R. Carvalho 4) D. Beckham 5) A. Costacurta 6) D. Savicevic
15. Himann 1) R. Baggio 2) M. Desailly 3) A.Cole 4) L. Blanc 5) P. Gascoigne 6) R. Gullit
16. Physio 1) Rivaldo 2) L.Thuram 3) A. Shevchenko 4) T. Silva 5) Vieri 6) Benarrivo

@Michaelf7777777 your pick
@Synco
@Jim Beam you have a pick to make whenever you are back on
 
For anyone not knowing the story. Raúl was an Atlético fan, from an Atlético household, in Atlético's youth setup. Appears on TV with his teammates and Jesús Gil points out he had scored 55 goals that season. Soon after, he rips up the youth setup as it was "too expensive", cue Raúl having to join Real.

The first cracker on this clip is his second game at the top level (the derby no less) aged 17.

 
antohan said:
For anyone not knowing the story. Raúl was an Atlético fan, from an Atlético household, in Atlético's youth setup. Appears on TV with his teammates and Jesús Gil points out he had scored 55 goals that season. Soon after, he rips up the youth setup as it was "too expensive", cue Raúl having to join Real.

The first cracker on this clip is his second game at the top level (the derby no less) aged 17.

Click to expand...


:drool:
 
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