Not good enough for your country. Not good enough for Utd.

simplyared

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Looking at the players we have who do not play for their country or are not included in their country’s WC squads.

Mata
Herrera
Martial
Smalling
Shaw

Realize the high standard of nations such as Spain and France. Nevertheless I believe it almost a condition that a player playing for us should at least be a squad member for their country in the WC.

Could be a good guideline when having an opinion about who should leave the club in the summer.
 

Hansa

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simplyared said:
Could be a good guideline when having an opinion about who should leave the club in the summer.
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While it's an interesting thought, we should in that case have gotten rid of Cantona in '94.
 

Rado_N

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Martial and Shaw didn't play enough for us to warrant consideration, Smalling should be in the England squad and the Spain team isnt a reasonable barometer.
 

ayushreddevil9

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I can see this thread become 'your ideal ins and outs' effectively
 

YouOnlyLiveTwice

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There are a lot of different reasons why players don’t play for their national team.

Smalling is a better defender than anyone who was picked, but Southgate prefers defenders who are good on the ball.

Martial could be in most national teams, but France have such an impressive attacking force.

Darmian plays for Italy, but he is bang average.

This is not a good way to do it.
 

We need an rvn

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Thread doesn't make sense. Forget the name as watching England and bored but what about that German who plays for city who didn't make the squad, would have him at United right now.

Also look at the players France or Brazil left out. Stupid thread to be honest
 

finneh

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It's not really a judgment on anything, since the likes of Sandro, Sane, Jorginho, Laporte, Icardi etc aren't going either.
 

pacifictheme

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.Rossi said:
Steve Bruce never got a look in at international level and was our captain. Eric of course

Devil's advocate etc
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Cantona was the best striker france had. He was also a massive bellend and everyone in france hated him.

I loved him. Obviously.
 

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg

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Cantona didn’t always play for France, even though his goal scoring record is 1:2, add in Andy Cole as well who is only behind Alan Shearer in terms of PL goals (not 100% on this).
 

JPRouve

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nokillingmoths said:
Cantona was the best striker france had. He was also a massive bellend and everyone in france hated him.

I loved him. Obviously.
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Nope, Cantona is liked a lot in France but he was bringing too much drama and finally got excluded from the national team.
 

Hansa

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ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Cantona didn’t always play for France, even though his goal scoring record is 1:2, add in Andy Cole as well who is only behind Alan Shearer in terms of PL goals (not 100% on this).
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No, but he played in both of the final two home defeats (Israel and Bulgaria) that eliminated France for USA '94. After that, I think he was mostly gone.
 

simplyared

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Please note before you all jump down my neck. The OP refers to Utd squad as it is now and not as it was in the days of Cantona or Steve Bruce. Those comments are totally irrelevant!
 

JPRouve

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You judge players based on what they bring to your team not on what they don't bring to a totally different team with a totally different pool of players.
 

Infordin

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Dybala and Icardi not good enough for United confirmed.
 

pacifictheme

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JPRouve said:
No, even then that's wrong, Cantona isn't hated at all. You are talking about someone that has played 45 games for France despite his antics.
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Nothing after 95 despite being arguably in the best form of his career.
 

villain

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Carrick played for England like 30 times right?
Scholes was criminally underplayed too.

Ridiculous logic.
 

Acole9

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simplyared said:
Looking at the players we have who do not play for their country or are not included in their country’s WC squads.

Mata
Herrera
Martial
Smalling
Shaw

Realize the high standard of nations such as Spain and France. Nevertheless I believe it almost a condition that a player playing for us should at least be a squad member for their country in the WC.

Could be a good guideline when having an opinion about who should leave the club in the summer.
Click to expand...
I would agree with you normally but I can certainly understand why Martial isn't in the squad and definitely Herrera. Mata, unfortunate. Shaw and Smalling makes your comments above valid.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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You pick your best balanced team, not just your best individuals. I disagree with Southgate omitting Smalling as he is a better out and out defender than anyone he's taken, but I understand it at least. He has a vision of how he wants to play, and Smalling doesn't quite fit that. I do think that Southgate will be made to look a bit silly when we play against a good side who will look to dominate our very weak midfield, but against Tunisia and Panama, it will look justified as we peg them back and play from the back. I think England will look very different against Belgium.

Carrick was constantly overlooked for England, despite him being exactly what that midfield needed for a long time. Managers have a vision, and not everyone fits it. It's not about talent, it's about balance.

Herrera and Mata are decent players, but there was no room for them in probably the strongest pool of midfielders in world football. It's no shame on them. I don't think it means they're not good enough. They're fine.

Since Young and Delph have gone to the World Cup as left back options, you'd imagine that if Shaw had played more games, he'd have gone, because Delph is bang average and Young is decent at best with some good spells.


tl;dr it's not at all as black and white as not NT quality, not United quality. So many more factors at play.
 

JPRouve

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nokillingmoths said:
Nothing after 95 despite being arguably in the best form of his career.
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In 95, he is suspended and France are in the middle of a rebuilding that includes Zidane with 98 as the goal. Which means that both Cantona and Ginola are out, Ginola was reportedly bitter about it.
 

JohnnyLaw

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simplyared said:
Looking at the players we have who do not play for their country or are not included in their country’s WC squads.

Mata
Herrera
Martial
Smalling
Shaw

Realize the high standard of nations such as Spain and France. Nevertheless I believe it almost a condition that a player playing for us should at least be a squad member for their country in the WC.

Could be a good guideline when having an opinion about who should leave the club in the summer.
Click to expand...
So by that logic do you believe Alex Sandro would be a downgrade on Ashley Young?
 
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