Old Trafford revamp/could be torn down and rebuilt according to Glazer plans

[hungrywing]

I think that it could cost.more because of the railway line.

Ah, I think you're right. It'd been a very long time since I'd seen a picture of the situation. 300-400m.

Deep into the night, Woodward furiously types. "Our Old Trafford Platinum Select Executive Suite(tm) (10m GBP and greater) members shall receive the following..."

Why is this aspect so costly?
The stadiums are just made of steel beams essentially, Cant they just build over the top of it surely?

In a nutshell, time and safety plus the fact that you might likely have to build a whole additional (if temporary) building if you want to keep the trains running. It's not the materials or the building processes, but that sometimes you're going to have to go extra slow and take extra precautions.

 

[diarm]

That'd only be around 200-300m.

Roughly speaking it's around 2000-3000 pounds per seat to build a 'top-tier' sporting venue. It costs more/towards the higher end of that range to refurb/deal with existing construction.

I'd prefer to spend more on a stadium that still looks like Old Trafford than spend less to get a soulless, modern corporate bowl like the Emirates or [Purchase Name Here] Bowl at Spurs.

 

[hungrywing]

I'd prefer to spend more on a stadium that still looks like Old Trafford than spend less to get a soulless, modern corporate bowl like the Emirates or [Purchase Name Here] Bowl at Spurs.

I'm sure the proposals will all be fine in that aspect. I'm curious now as to how much they're budgeting for this 'facelift'. And when we'll get to see them.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I wouldn't mind if they extended the South stand but it only resulted in a couple of extra thousand seats - because they also improved leg room everywhere else or at the very least gave folk kneepads because fecking hell...

 

[Spoony]

I'd prefer to spend more on a stadium that still looks like Old Trafford than spend less to get a soulless, modern corporate bowl like the Emirates or [Purchase Name Here] Bowl at Spurs.

Old Trafford was what folk would describe as a soulless bowl when it was constructed(but described as the best stadium in the world..). It looked like St Mary's back in 95. I actually think White Hart Lane looks stunning - far too good for Spurs. I also love what Real are doing to their ground. A lot money will have to spent to get OT top of the tree again. Which is why I'm doubtful about these reports....

 

[hungrywing]

Old Trafford was what folk would describe as a soulless bowl when it was constructed(but described as the best stadium in the world..). It looked like St Mary's back in 95. I actually think White Hart Lane looks stunning - far too good for Spurs. I also love what Real are doing to their ground. A lot money will have to spent to get OT top of the tree again. Which is why I'm doubtful about these reports....

Manchester United Football Club are delighted to announce the launch of the Bricklayers Initiative: privileged fans worldwide will be allowed to pay £10 to purchase a virtual 'brick' towards the £500m project to revitalize the Gla Old Trafford, our treasured home ground. "A select group of fifty million fans from around the world will be able point (vaguely) and proudly proclaim, "That is my brick. There are many like it, but that one is mine."

 

[Spoony]

Manchester United Football Club are delighted to announce the launch of the Bricklayers Initiative: privileged fans worldwide will be allowed to pay £10 to purchase a virtual 'brick' towards the £500m project to revitalize the Gla Old Trafford, our treasured home ground. "A select group of fifty million fans from around the world will be able point (vaguely) and proudly proclaim, "That is my brick. There are many like it, but that one is mine."

Bricks aside, I wonder how they'll fund it. How would you modernise Old Trafford?

 

[Steve Bruce]

I read Rangers are considering lowering the pitch to allow for expansion. I'm absolutely no expert on these things but in my opinion coming from someone who hasn't a clue about this stuff would this not be an idea for old Trafford, extra capacity and also solve the hills we have around the pitch

 

[pascell]

I read Rangers are considering lowering the pitch to allow for expansion. I'm absolutely no expert on these things but in my opinion coming from someone who hasn't a clue about this stuff would this not be an idea for old Trafford, extra capacity and also solve the hills we have around the pitch

The hills around the pitch are because the pitch has been raised for drainage.

 

[Summit]

Building over the railway line will probably be the less expensive option. Can't see them rerouting it or making it go underground.

Going underground just wouldn't be an option at all. Think about it logically. Trains don't go up steep slopes, or severe declines. It isn't a roller coaster. They would have to start the decline miles and miles back.

 

[altodevil]

Here's hoping Rangers caves in Ibrox when they do it

 

[dwd]

Going underground just wouldn't be an option at all. Think about it logically. Trains do go up steep slopes, or severe declines. It isn't a roller coaster. They would have to start the decline miles and miles back.

We could use it as a marketing opportunity and brand it as the Olecoaster attraction. Get a true experience of life as a United fan currently.

 

[Summit]

We could use it as a marketing opportunity and brand it as the Olecoaster attraction. Get a true experience of life as a United fan currently.

Haha meant to say don't go up.

 

[hungrywing]

Bricks aside, I wonder how they'll fund it.

Indeed I'm very curious as to what the budget is, because largely there are three things that the Glazerlings can do based on our finances and their past behavior/tendency kind of sort of along the lines of their not having any actual money of their own to put into the club: (keep in mind, this is all from a filthy overseas fan who's never been within 140 miles of Old Trafford)

1. Interior facelift (replacing all the seating, redoing restrooms, public facing areas etc) + cursory studies into South Stand 150-180m (cursory studies roughly being 'draw me some pretty ideas')
2. Facelift + serious studies into South Stand 180-230m (serious studies meaning choosing a design, doing all the surveying work, figuring out all the legal issues, etc. just not actually building said chosen design)
3a. Facelift + construction of bridging/support element over railway 250-270m (there are reasons to do this without building the stands above it, but only if you're 100% sure that one day you're going to build said stands)
3b. Facelift + construction of stands over railway, either with temporary or permanent bridging/support element 300-400m

Something like 3a and 3b would be part of a long term comprehensive scheme to update the rest of the stadium and the surrounding area, and 3b isn't the greatest idea - if you're going to go that far, then you kind of want to do the whole thing, although you could do some interesting things just with this depending on how much of the railway (lengthwise) you end up building over.

Again, all of that is taking into account that they're almost certainly not going to spend much more than 300m of the club's money.

How would you modernise Old Trafford?

Assuming a complete overhaul and a normal budget for a project of that size, well. (if you're good at something, never do it for free...)

That being said, I'd reskin and build over the railway and do some very pretty things around that part of the complex and perhaps towards the river then win some awards and then thank you in my speech.

How about you? Would you really not mind an ultra-modern design aesthetic - new Bernabeu, Allianz Arena, etc - at OT? (Tottenham Stadium's exterior is a bit of a middling and heavily derivative disaster.) And how much of the club's workman's roots do you think you'd like to see reflected in the materials and design?

Also, the New Bernabeu's design is heavily aided ('informed' is the word they like to use) by its site: they're putting social/retail/multipurpose spaces in between the old and new building skin with views out into the city, whereas at OT you'd just be looking out at industrial areas and rows of spinsters' laundry lines from a lot of such spaces.

 

[Spoony]

Indeed I'm very curious as to what the budget is, because largely there are three things that the Glazerlings can do based on our finances and their past behavior/tendency kind of sort of along the lines of their not having any actual money of their own to put into the club: (keep in mind, this is all from a filthy overseas fan who's never been within 140 miles of Old Trafford)

1. Interior facelift (replacing all the seating, redoing restrooms, public facing areas etc) + cursory studies into South Stand 150-180m (cursory studies roughly being 'draw me some pretty ideas')
2. Facelift + serious studies into South Stand 180-230m (serious studies meaning choosing a design, doing all the surveying work, figuring out all the legal issues, etc. just not actually building said chosen design)
3a. Facelift + construction of bridging/support element over railway 250-270m (there are reasons to do this without building the stands above it, but only if you're 100% sure that one day you're going to build said stands)
3b. Facelift + construction of stands over railway, either with temporary or permanent bridging/support element 300-400m

Something like 3a and 3b would be part of a long term comprehensive scheme to update the rest of the stadium and the surrounding area, and 3b isn't the greatest idea - if you're going to go that far, then you kind of want to do the whole thing, although you could do some interesting things just with this depending on how much of the railway (lengthwise) you end up building over.

Again, all of that is taking into account that they're almost certainly not going to spend much more than 300m of the club's money.



Assuming a complete overhaul and a normal budget for a project of that size, well. (if you're good at something, never do it for free...)

That being said, I'd reskin and build over the railway and do some very pretty things around that part of the complex and perhaps towards the river then win some awards and then thank you in my speech.

How about you? Would you really not mind an ultra-modern design aesthetic - new Bernabeu, Allianz Arena, etc - at OT? (Tottenham Stadium's exterior is a bit of a middling and heavily derivative disaster.) And how much of the club's workman's roots do you think you'd like to see reflected in the materials and design?

Also, the New Bernabeu's design is heavily aided ('informed' is the word they like to use) by its site: they're putting social/retail/multipurpose spaces in between the old and new building skin with views out into the city, whereas at OT you'd just be looking out at industrial areas and rows of spinsters' laundry lines from a lot of such spaces.

That's a cracking post.

Suppose I like the idea of retaining OT's heritage yet modernising. What that means is anyone's guess. Yes, the area is an industrial site but I love architecture, I'd love something iconic. We could put rail seating in the bottom tier add a third tier to the goal ends and join with the North Stand. I'd like a similar South Stand allowing the ground to be fully three tier but I get the feeling we'll go with the cheaper corporate option a la Levi's stadium. I'd also like them to reseat the stadium, it's horribly cramped. Yes, retain the character but that shouldn't stop it becoming one of the world's best stadia.

 

[Spoony]

And I agree White Hart Lane looks awful from the outside.

 

[Sandikan]

That's a cracking post.

Suppose I like the idea of retaining OT's heritage yet modernising. What that means is anyone's guess. Yes, the area is an industrial site but I love architecture, I'd love something iconic. We could put rail seating in the bottom tier add a third tier to the goal ends and join with the North Stand. I'd like a similar South Stand allowing the ground to be fully three tier but I get the feeling we'll go with the cheaper corporate option a la Levi's stadium. I'd also like them to reseat the stadium, it's horribly cramped. Yes, retain the character but that shouldn't stop it becoming one of the world's best stadia.

You'd have to sort the roof out into the bargain to develop new tier 3s, as the back row (row 40) of Tier 2 of the East (and presumably west!) stands, you get about 1cm visibility above the opposite crossbar.

 

[GregM40]

I’m intrigued to see how they get around the railway line, as well as the private property beyond that.

I read somewhere ages ago another tier to the South stand would create an extra 16,000 seats. It’s something like another million quid in revenue per season isn’t it, without the added corporate boxes/exec seats included.

 

[Spoony]

You'd have to sort the roof out into the bargain to develop new tier 3s, as the back row (row 40) of Tier 2 of the East (and presumably west!) stands, you get about 1cm visibility above the opposite crossbar.

Indeed. The roof is very 90s, was a solution for a lack of sunlight but that's not an issue anymore.

 

[golden_blunder]

Bricks aside, I wonder how they'll fund it. How would you modernise Old Trafford?

Burn it down. Insurance job

 

[DEdwards]

Not sure why this subject has suddenly raised its head again, but it sounds suspiciously like the usual distraction ploys used by the club whenever serious negative PR is building momentum. All of the understandable criticism of OGS (sooner he goes the better) conveniently leads to ‘leaks’ coming out of the club about revamps. Suddenly everyone is getting excited about a much needed revamp and the calls for heads to roll then die down. I’ll bet my house on nothing significant being done to OT in the foreseeable, mark my words, this is nothing but a distraction by the parasites that run the club these days.

 

[hungrywing]

That's a cracking post.

What that means is anyone's guess. Yes, the area is an industrial site but I love architecture, I'd love something iconic. We could put rail seating in the bottom tier add a third tier to the goal ends and join with the North Stand. I'd like a similar South Stand allowing the ground to be fully three tier but I get the feeling we'll go with the cheaper corporate option a la Levi's stadium. I'd also like them to reseat the stadium, it's horribly cramped. Yes, retain the character but that shouldn't stop it becoming one of the world's best stadia.

Just so we're on the same page, you do understand this will all be a virtual process and no actual physical work will be done, right?

Fans will still be crammed into their seats like Shaquille O'Neal at one of his daughters' tea parties, they just won't feel like it due to the club's technology partners and their new Real(fergie)Time Pitchside See-Zone Ticket software. Hurry now, if you pay extra, after every matchday there are...special services.

EDIT: It totally really did cost 335m, guys. Would I lie to you? - Avram 'Honest Ave' Glazer

 

[giggs-beckham]

I’m intrigued to see how they get around the railway line, as well as the private property beyond that.

I read somewhere ages ago another tier to the South stand would create an extra 16,000 seats. It’s something like another million quid in revenue per season isn’t it, without the added corporate boxes/exec seats included.

Surely it's more than 1million. How many games per season at ot, 30?
And the average ticket price, £50? (No idea really)
That's £24million

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I'm surprised that there's no concepts or designs anywhere for what seems to be a rather hot topic. The best I found on Google (the extent of my research) were something about a giant open fanzone on the roof and someone who had just mirrored the North stand.

Where's the crazy ideas like a full video wall across the entirety of a domed roof, to properly stick it to Real Madrid with their inferior OLED band? Or a giant shark tank that opens up whenever an opposition striker is storming towards De Gea unmarked?

 

[GregM40]

Surely it's more than 1million. How many games per season at ot, 30?
And the average ticket price, £50? (No idea really)
That's £24million

Just realised I only worked out the maths per game .

So a rough guess is about 15m per season extra just for the league games. Your guess sounds about right then.

 

[RoyH1]

About time something is happening on this front. The stadium needs a bit of love and care.

 

[Spoony]

Just so we're on the same page, you do understand this will all be a virtual process and no actual physical work will be done, right?

Fans will still be crammed into their seats like Shaquille O'Neal at one of his daughters' tea parties, they just won't feel like it due to the club's technology partners and their new Real(fergie)Time Pitchside See-Zone Ticket software. Hurry now, if you pay extra, after every matchday there are...special services.

EDIT: It totally really did cost 335m, guys. Would I lie to you? - Avram 'Honest Ave' Glazer

I agree, it's all PR talk. Still, I'd love to see renders. So do you like NFL stadia, Hungry? Must say baseball parks can look amazing, I love Wrigley Field and Fenway but also modern retro ones like Miller Park.

 

[wolvored]

I think the stadium is stuck like the club is, looking back to the past. Were slowly turning into a sleeping giant and when you look at emirates spurs Bayern atletico etc all with new fantastic stadiums, compared to our stadium. We as supposedly one of the biggest clubs in the world yet looking more and more like raggyarse rovers being left behind. Couldn't we do a spurs and build on the car park and adjoining land so we are in roughly the same spot?

 

[elmo]

Glazers aren't going to spend that much money revamping Old Trafford when they'll most likely never make back the money in their lifetime.

 

[meamth]

Why is this aspect so costly?
The stadiums are just made of steel beams essentially, Cant they just build over the top of it surely?

You can draw anything on paper, but really, the challenge is how to build it safely while the railway line is operating.

 

[RUCK4444]

Glazers aren't going to spend that much money revamping Old Trafford when they'll most likely never make back the money in their lifetime.

Well they probably will as long as it doesn't effect their dividend payments.

 

[RUCK4444]

You can draw anything on paper, but really, the challenge is how to build it safely while the railway line is operating.

Yeah that's true. I'm not sure if it's a major line, doesn't seem to be but in all honestly I have no idea if it's a busy major line or not.

 

[Chipper]

Yeah that's true. I'm not sure if it's a major line, doesn't seem to be but in all honestly I have no idea if it's a busy major line or not.

Quite a busy one. Manchester Piccadilly - Liverpool route goes that way although you can take a different way from Victoria which takes longer.

Can't remember if it was this thread or another I posted my idea of buying a section of the canal and paying to fill it in and re-route the railway to the North along it round the back of the Sir Alex stand instead. I'm still proposing that as my impractical masterplan. It's what I'd do in Sim City/Cites Skylines at least!

Edit: You can see the canal and railway line clearly on this aerial and the relevant sections that I'm talking about. The club already owns the freight terminal area I believe.

 

[RUCK4444]

Quite a busy one. Manchester Piccadilly - Liverpool route goes that way although you can take a different way from Victoria which takes longer.

Can't remember if it was this thread or another I posted my idea of buying a section of the canal and paying to fill it in and re-route the railway to the North along it round the back of the Sir Alex stand instead. I'm still proposing that as my impractical masterplan. It's what I'd do in Sim City/Cites Skylines at least!

Edit: You can see the canal and railway line clearly on this aerial and the relevant sections that I'm talking about. The club already owns the freight terminal area I believe.

Oh so it's a busy-ish one then. Isn't moving a railway line super expensive? Would probably be cheaper to build over the top of it?

Would be cool if it can be incorporated into the stadium perhaps with it's own stop inside the new structure.

 

[Spoony]

Oh so it's a busy-ish one then. Isn't moving a railway line super expensive? Would probably be cheaper to build over the top of it?

Would be cool if it can be incorporated into the stadium perhaps with it's own stop inside the new structure.

. build on top. I think United own all the houses behind the South Stand, so that shouldn't be an issue as well. Will cost too much for our owners, though.

 

[hungrywing]

I agree, it's all PR talk. Still, I'd love to see renders. So do you like NFL stadia, Hungry? Must say baseball parks can look amazing, I love Wrigley Field and Fenway but also modern retro ones like Miller Park.

Are there fan-made ones out there in the ‘Twitter sphere’? *furiously DuckDuckGos*

…there are!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...chitects-plans-manchester-uniteds-old-6332481

If you had a choice between a design more like the baseball stadiums you mentioned - (lot of brick and exposed metal and earth tones; but design elements that echo the original OT - heavily red and white) vs a totally-amazeballs-sleek-futuristic design, which would you go for?

Assume both are equally great, but that you’re forced to make a decision.

 

[Spoony]

Are there fan-made ones out there in the ‘Twitter sphere’? *furiously DuckDuckGos*

…there are!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...chitects-plans-manchester-uniteds-old-6332481

If you had a choice between a design more like the baseball stadiums you mentioned - (lot of brick and exposed metal and earth tones; but design elements that echo the original OT - heavily red and white) vs a totally-amazeballs-sleek-futuristic design, which would you go for?

Assume both are equally great, but that you’re forced to make a decision.

I think a retro look a la Miller Park will suit OT, I love the roof and exposed metal. But they'll probably go down a different route.


How about yourself?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think a retro look a la Miller Park will suit OT, I love the roof and exposed metal. But they'll probably go down a different route.


How about yourself?

Can we have a slide that a goalscorer has to go down every time one of our players scores a goal?

 

[hungrywing]

I think a retro look a la Miller Park will suit OT, I love the roof and exposed metal. But they'll probably go down a different route.


How about yourself?

It’d be tough, but I think the club’s history would sway me towards the more industrial look as well.

Would you want the steel elements to be painted white? Would you mind if the new color scheme was totally different from OT now?

Can we have a slide that a goalscorer has to go down every time one of our players scores a goal?

Someone contact FIFA the FA and UEFA; this needs to be implemented straight away.

But with the slide made out of sustainable materials to send a positive eco-message to the youth.

 

[Spoony]

It’d be tough, but I think the club’s history would sway me towards the more industrial look as well.

Would you want the steel elements to be painted white? Would you mind if the new color scheme was totally different from OT now?



Someone contact FIFA the FA and UEFA; this needs to be implemented straight away.

But with the slide made out of sustainable materials to send a positive eco-message to the youth.

I would mind if they were red iron girders like the San Siro, did you seep Herzog and de Meuron's plans for Stamford Bridge? They used London brick and the design really suited area. So yeah industrial would look great. We should put this forward to the Glazers!