Two legendary players
Returning to manage their clubs
In the same period of time, who has done better?
Returning to manage their clubs
In the same period of time, who has done better?
Ole (2018-) vs. Dalglish (2011-2012)
- Thread starter littleman
- Start date
Ole purely because he's provided us with some memorable wins. I don't remember anything positive from that Dalglish reign? Mainly just the t-shirt fiasco.
We complain about Fred and Andreas starting but Kenny had Jay fecking Spearing spraying daisy cutters across the pitch.
For my money, it has to be King Kenny. He got us to two cup finals (winning one on pens) and we stuffed Utd and Everton at home as well as knocking Utd out of the FA Cup and then beating Everton at Wembley in the cup semi. However, his strange decision to completely rip up the system that was doing so well ultimately cost him his job.
This even a joke? Kenny won a cup and had them finished quite high. Sacked when he's 8th. We're lauding ole better than kenny while we're 8th on the league
Christ did they actually win a trophy under him?! Don't remember that at all. Still time for Ole seeing as he's got at least the rest of this season.
Je suis Suarez aside, it's Kenny let's be honest
Kenny laid the foundations for his successors, and sadly it looks like Ole won't get to enjoy the fruits of his labours either.
Both seemed to relish big games/occasions but couldn't get their team up for run of the mill games.
Did he? I thought the transfer windows under him were woeful.
Henderson and Suarez aside (and even the former only came good long after he left) his signings were beyond disastrous.
Dalglish by far.
Dalglish won their first trophy for 6 years with the league cup and got to the FA Cup final too.
Do we look like winning anything this season?
Dalglish won their first trophy for 6 years with the league cup and got to the FA Cup final too.
Do we look like winning anything this season?
Why did Kenny get sacked by the way?
Didn't he take Hodgesons Liverpool from 16th to 8th and get to two cup finals. ?
He was only there for 18months or so.
I know he was shocked when he got sacked.
Didn't he take Hodgesons Liverpool from 16th to 8th and get to two cup finals. ?
He was only there for 18months or so.
I know he was shocked when he got sacked.
His first full season led to a failed transfer window, only 6 home wins and their worst league finish for half a century.
Still trying to make “worst post of the 2019” I see.
I don't think he really did.. It was a relieve that he took over from Hodgson and did well the first half season. Even though he won the league cup and reached the FA cup final the following season was a dissapointment.
He bought Suarez and Carroll in his first window, so it was kind of a mixed bag, but the summer transfer in '11 was a minor disaster with Downing, Henderson and Adams as the reinforcements.. He got Suarez for Rodgers, but that was it, as far as I remember.
I remember at the start of that season Liverpool went to Arsenal and completely played them off the pitch, won 2-0 and I'd have massively backed them to finish above Arsenal and in the top 4. In the end it was Arsenal who finished comfortably ahead of them.
Liverpool seemed to draw a shed load of games 1-1 that season home and away so not as awful performance wise as the previous season under Woy but still letting loads of points slip through their fingers against mediocre opposition.
Can remember one game v QPR they were 2 up with twenty minutes left and they somehow lost it 3-2.
Liverpool seemed to draw a shed load of games 1-1 that season home and away so not as awful performance wise as the previous season under Woy but still letting loads of points slip through their fingers against mediocre opposition.
Can remember one game v QPR they were 2 up with twenty minutes left and they somehow lost it 3-2.
Liverpool hit the woodwork on 33 occasions in the Premier League during 2011/12 under King Kenny. I'm not sure what the average is per season, but that is quite an amazing stat. Fine margins in football. If those had gone in, he'd have never been sacked.
Actually, Liverpool was playing pretty well up until Suarez was banned for 8 games. Even then, the midfield was holding up well but things got worse after Lucas Leiva got injured against Chelsea in League Cup match i think, and out for the rest of the season. Jay Spearing played in his position next game against Fulham in the league and we lost badly. It was really the start of bad games from then on. Before Lucas got injured, although there were some draws defensive side of the team is still quite good. Only in attack, Dirk Kuyt and Suarez were hitting posts a lot and missing penalties. Even Charlie Adams, who was known for set-piece and penalties before coming to Liverpool, missed some that season.
I remembered Gary Neville pointing out Spearing's shortcomings compared to Lucas during half-time analysis during that Fulham game. He looked good previously when playing alongside Lucas but he cannot replace him at all. Before Lucas was injured, even if Liverpool doesnt score much and ended the game with a draw, he was shielding the defence quite well and the team got some sort of control and was creating chances. Only the finishing was lacking so ended up with draws. There were only two losses (against Stoke and Spurs successively in September) before he got injured. Losses piled up after that because there was no one to control the game from midfield. Gerrad missed most of the first half of season as well only return to action after late December/January that season.
Lucas Leiva after that injury was never the same as before as well. Maybe it was partly due to the change in playing style under Rodgers.
I remembered Gary Neville pointing out Spearing's shortcomings compared to Lucas during half-time analysis during that Fulham game. He looked good previously when playing alongside Lucas but he cannot replace him at all. Before Lucas was injured, even if Liverpool doesnt score much and ended the game with a draw, he was shielding the defence quite well and the team got some sort of control and was creating chances. Only the finishing was lacking so ended up with draws. There were only two losses (against Stoke and Spurs successively in September) before he got injured. Losses piled up after that because there was no one to control the game from midfield. Gerrad missed most of the first half of season as well only return to action after late December/January that season.
Lucas Leiva after that injury was never the same as before as well. Maybe it was partly due to the change in playing style under Rodgers.
Don't forget that Kenny wasn't just a player for us, he managed us in the late 80s and had a team that was incredible doing the double in 86 and guiding the club through the the period in our history. He took over from Hodgson when the club was on its knees. It was about 3 weeks after Liverpool was in court and a few hours from liquidation. Liverpool could have gone the same way as Bury if our current owners hadn't stepped in and the club was in an awful place on and off the pitch.
For Kenny to reach two finals, winning one and uniting the club again was incredible. The league season wasn't good by any stretch of the imagination but he restored some pride in us again.
Ole hasn't done anything for you yet apart from a good night in Paris and a few good results against top 6 teams. With your history and the size of the club, he's going to need more than that to survive at Old Trafford much longer
For Kenny to reach two finals, winning one and uniting the club again was incredible. The league season wasn't good by any stretch of the imagination but he restored some pride in us again.
Ole hasn't done anything for you yet apart from a good night in Paris and a few good results against top 6 teams. With your history and the size of the club, he's going to need more than that to survive at Old Trafford much longer
It's Kenny by far which shows how shite Ole has been and all the more confusing that he still has so much support.
As much as we joked about Dalglish's reign, I have to pick him and that hurts to be honest.
I think we were about 12th when Kenny took over in Jan 2011 and, considering we had been flirting with relegation and were in a complete mess, he steered us to a respectable 6th place finish. We were also playing some good football, with Maxi Rodriguez, Suarez and Kurt linking up well. It was looking promising but then the summer transfer window brought Hendo (struggled for a long time but turned out good eventually), Downing (consistently inconsistent), Adam (what the feck) and progress stalled. We were good in the cups but very inconsistent in the league - I remember a week after we won the League Cup we played Arsenal at Anfield. Absolutely battered them but didn't take our chances and got done by a late smash n grab from RVP. After that we were rubbish and finished 8th. We then lost the FA cup final to Chelsea and he was sacked soon afterwards.
At the time I thought he should have got till Xmas of the next season. But looking back I think it was just the red tinted glasses and the love of a club legend. I think he might have got sacked even if we had won the FA cup - failure to get top 4 and going backwards in the league cost him.
To be honest I don't think there is a lot of difference between Kenny and Ole - the pattern is very similar. Join midway thru a season, get a boost which eventually tails off, make some British signings which aren't great (although I think Ole's are better), talk alot about the history and culture of the club. From a managerial perspective Dalglish had proved himself at the top level but was too long out of the game whereas Ole hasn't proved himself at the top level but has at least been involved in the modern game. From a boardroom perspective LFC acted ruthlessly whereas MUFC seem to be content to accept mediocrity - at least in the short term. Although in fairness Ole may not survive after this season if you don't make Top 4 or win EL. This would mean he ended up doing 18 months, which was the same as Kenny.
At the time I thought he should have got till Xmas of the next season. But looking back I think it was just the red tinted glasses and the love of a club legend. I think he might have got sacked even if we had won the FA cup - failure to get top 4 and going backwards in the league cost him.
To be honest I don't think there is a lot of difference between Kenny and Ole - the pattern is very similar. Join midway thru a season, get a boost which eventually tails off, make some British signings which aren't great (although I think Ole's are better), talk alot about the history and culture of the club. From a managerial perspective Dalglish had proved himself at the top level but was too long out of the game whereas Ole hasn't proved himself at the top level but has at least been involved in the modern game. From a boardroom perspective LFC acted ruthlessly whereas MUFC seem to be content to accept mediocrity - at least in the short term. Although in fairness Ole may not survive after this season if you don't make Top 4 or win EL. This would mean he ended up doing 18 months, which was the same as Kenny.
Ole will have a better season if he wins the league cup/Fa cup and finishes higher than god knows wherever we finished that year, 8th was it.. I gave up following us in the league most of the time, far too many false dawns under him like Ole's now. We'd gear ourselves up to beat Man City, United at home, Everton & Arsenal away, Chelsea we beat 4 times under him, Spurs were the only ones we couldn't beat back then. Then we'd follow it up with shit draws at home to Norwich, Swansea, Blackburn etc, and disasters like the QPR away when we were 2-0 at HT and fecked it up. The league from from March-May went massively downhill losing to Wigan, Fulham, West Brom at home etc. It was only the cup runs that kept me invested to the end and I think the same with the owners.
The Pool squad back then was worse then this current United one. I think Ole's signings will prove more long term and he will be in market for better players than what Dalglish could aim for at the time. Hiring the worst director of football in Damien Commoli was our first mistake, who was sacked later on because of the transfers he made thinking he could implement Billy Deane's 'moneyball' method in to football. Two terrible transfer windows followed a season of hitting the woodwork 100+ times and not scoring one goal, hoping Carroll would get on the end of Stewart Downings crosses that never happened or Downing never scoring for that matter, the trio of goalkeeping cockups from Reina, Doni, and Brad Jones. The t-shirt and Evra & Suarez fiasco. It was a tough year thinking of it that somehow culminated with a trophy and possibly could have been two.
The Pool squad back then was worse then this current United one. I think Ole's signings will prove more long term and he will be in market for better players than what Dalglish could aim for at the time. Hiring the worst director of football in Damien Commoli was our first mistake, who was sacked later on because of the transfers he made thinking he could implement Billy Deane's 'moneyball' method in to football. Two terrible transfer windows followed a season of hitting the woodwork 100+ times and not scoring one goal, hoping Carroll would get on the end of Stewart Downings crosses that never happened or Downing never scoring for that matter, the trio of goalkeeping cockups from Reina, Doni, and Brad Jones. The t-shirt and Evra & Suarez fiasco. It was a tough year thinking of it that somehow culminated with a trophy and possibly could have been two.
Similar situation, we are like Liverpool 9 yrs ago
Klopp has come to the rescue of Liverpool. I don't care what people say about how great their owners are. It was their sliding doors moment .
Like it was for is when we got Fergie. No one at the time were saying how great our owners were back then. Fergie took all the praise (rightly so) and Klopp should be taking all the praise too. (Not their lucky owners).
Something changed in their club structure, LeBron James has know the 2% of the club, so he understood that there was a situation with an interesting future
From Lambert and Ings to Salah and Mane
Klopp has been signed after a popular movement with thousand of fans asking for his signing
So the fans had a role as well
There you go:
2011/12
Liverpool: 33
Fulham: 24
City:21
2012/13
Utd: 24
Everton:21
Fulham & Liverpool:19
2013/14
Liverpool: 27
Chelsea:19
City:19
2014/15
City: 18
Southampton:17
QPR:16
2015/16
Arsenal: 21
Spurs:19
West Ham:19
2016/17
Spurs:22
City:20
Bournemouth & Utd:19
2017/18
City:23
Arsenal:17
Liverpool & Utd:16
2018/19
Chelsea & City: 21
Liverpool: 19
Will Ole generate the same output?
Brendan Rodgers.
Brendan Rodgers.
I would say owners deserve some credit for getting Klopp to Liverpool and putting in place a system that combines the best of football and non-football management aspects seamlessly. Klopp has himself mentioned a few times how Edwards and team add so much value to his coaching.
The truth is, the board didn't really want to give him the job full-time in the first place. He got appointed in the wake of the Hodgson fiasco, and was tasked with steadying the ship. The original plan was to bring in a young, up-and-coming coach to be the permanent gaffer (as they would eventually do with Brendan Rodgers). But, in a manner not dissimilar to what happened with Solskjær, he had a great start and everyone got carried away (including the board) and he got the job full time. I think Fenway appointed him against their own better judgement, having become swept up in the romance of the idea of the 'Return of the King.'
I actually think he didn't do too badly, to be honest. We were unbelievably unlucky in his only full season back in charge, getting seemingly endless draws when we should've won numerous games. We won a cup and got to the final of another cup competition. But a lot of his buys didn't pay off* (the aftermath of that summer's transfer window was felt by Damien Comolli, who lost his job before Dalglish) and he handled the Suarez thing pretty badly. In the end, the club went back to their original plan and brought in Rodgers.
It's been fascinating watch United make a similar mistake with your current manager. At least Fenway realised their mistake early on and were ruthless enough to make a decisive move.
*Actually, thinking about it, his transfer record wasn't too awful - he did buy Suarez and Henderson.
At least dalglish had been a respected manager, won the league with Liverpool and blackburn. He had credentials. Ole works off 'express yourselves' and the Cliff training ground
One of the things i distinctly remember throughout that season before we lost to Arsenal at Anfield and pretty much sealed any hope of getting top 4, was that we were always 3 to 6 points away of top 4. Any time we had chances to just win the next game and at least momentarily be in the top 4, we drew or lost, every time. That kinda reminds me of your season so far, in that sense.
We played a lot of good and entertaining football with very poor finishing in the first half of the season. Clarke had helped us implement a very high line of defence well and there was a clear game plan. Yet despite the high number of chances, we couldn't buy a goal. Part of it was luck, part of it jinxing ourselves with lacking belief and confidence that we could even score. And a big part of it was also that we didn't really create that many high quality chances. A lot of them were snapping at goal with a defender in your back and such. Still, it seemed like something to iron out of a good project.
Then sometime in the new year, the wheels just came off. We'd start games well, fail to score, and then turn to shit.
I was a bit surprised he got sacked. Yes, what happened in spring was awful (still won a cup), but what came before that was not.
In hindsight, it wasn't a bad decision, though I reckon he'd probably have done better in his second season than Rodgers did the next season.
Overall, I'd rather have that than what solskjaer is doing so far. But then again, Dalglish had actually won league titles with different teams in England. Vastly different CV.
Then sometime in the new year, the wheels just came off. We'd start games well, fail to score, and then turn to shit.
I was a bit surprised he got sacked. Yes, what happened in spring was awful (still won a cup), but what came before that was not.
In hindsight, it wasn't a bad decision, though I reckon he'd probably have done better in his second season than Rodgers did the next season.
Overall, I'd rather have that than what solskjaer is doing so far. But then again, Dalglish had actually won league titles with different teams in England. Vastly different CV.