Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[R77]

All fair points but why not buy a mobile DM instead of spunking £80mil on a CB that needs 2 DMs to cover him?

No idea. A mobile midfielder that can defend and pass really well would be huge, as big as a genuine wide player that isn't DJ. We could even stick to the way we currently set out, but immediately be much more coherent going forward due to needing less fixes. I don't think anyone could have predicted the Maguire situation though, mindful of his flaws or not.

Also your assertion it’ll work better with DVdB than Pogba, why so? He’s had a few cameos in the League & played decently in a cup game. . .

Workrate, tactical awareness, and efficiency with the ball. PP would be very good as one of the 8s, two such players is a big increase in risk under pressure for the state we're currently in. Obviously a lot of guesswork on my part though.

Pogba has won quite a few trophies in a 3 man midfield & playing Bruno as a 10 can isolate him/doesn’t make the most of his all round game.

France have one of the best squads in the world, loaded with top players to get distracted by, and international football is a very different kettle of fish to the Premier League.

To not try a 3 with 1 DM because we think it won’t work & continue with a 4-2-3-1 that doesn’t work is foolhardy. I doubt Pogba is the answer long term but the dross on the ball that is Fred & McAverage isn’t getting us much further.

McFred are the best solution to the problem at this juncture. A problem partly caused by attempts to play a more expansive game failing hard, and PP's form being an aspect of that. I also think that while disgruntlement at a percieved adherence to 4231 is just, it's also slightly misplaced, as it doesn't reflect what we actually do on the ball quite often.

 

[Litch]

Going to have to find a way of getting the best player on the pitch otherwise won't win enough games. The fear of losing has made him revert back to being quite defensive minded. It's a shame cause whichever manager has the balls to win games, will win the most open prem for years!!!

 

[crossy1686]

And then basically stopped asking for players for a few windows?

You absolutely have to take into account that without Barcelona paying stupid money for Coutinho, he wasn't getting VVD and Alisson.

Then why haven't we sold Pogba or Martial to fund those purchases? We've got players here we're hanging on to just in case they come good somewhere else. Liverpool had the balls to sell Coutinho and sign players who would balance the team. We're being stupid by not only keeping players against their will but also hanging on for an extra £5m.

 

[justsomebloke]

My point was that some of you constantly defend Ole with Klopp and Fergie examples. It is cherry picking. Those two got time so Ole must too. There are dozens and dozens other examples which can be used. Good and bad. I want him out but i have never said that he deserves sacking just because he didn't do Conte or Ranieri.
Lets just look at what Ole is doing so far. And nothing else. It doesn't matter what Klopp did, Conte did or Pep did.

Well, a good start then might be to compare the performances against PSG in spring 2019 and last week respectively?

In the first case, we were comprehensively outclassed and dominated, despite winning. I still recall the moment when it dawned on me that we might actually pull it off, and thinking that would be the robbery of the decade.

In the second case, we played on an even footing - while a draw would not have been unfair, a win wasn't either. At least on that night, we looked as good a team as PSG. I'd say that amounts to progress in 18 months.

There had to be a rebuild, and it's not done yet. It will take time. The squad is not good enough to be expected to win titles yet. If you change the manager, the process most likely takes longer rather than shorter. Patience is required.

What matters at this stage is mainly the direction of travel. The achievement last season was ahead of the curve, in my opinion - more than could reasonably be expected. They took more points than any other team after the January window closed. The way the team is playing now, first 3 PL games aside which I think can reasonably be attributed mainly to the virtual absence of a pre-season, tells much the same story. This is now a team that is much better than we were this time last year, or the year before. In addition to being the youngest squad in the top flight of any of the European top 6 leagues last season. I think that's more than sufficient to justify continuity.

Maybe there comes a time when all the necessary pieces are in place and OGS still can't get them over the bump. That's when it's time for a change. But not now.

 

[Andycoleno9]

And their lies the problem.

Fans want a title challenge based on what you said above.. You claim Ole was backed in this summer because of the players you have listed.

Our priority was RW, CB, CM

This is the difference between our fans who expect a title challenge based on "backing" compared to what backing looks like.

Klopp got a player he doesnt want - the player in 2 seasons before joining liverpool got 76 goals in the 2 seasons before. We got 3 RW who didn't even have 76 first team appearances combined.

We got a CF who was on his way to retirement, whilst other managers are getting players who have just come off a brilliant season.

That is the difference, now if you telling me getting one 18 year old winger and 17 year old who is to join in January is backing then I do not want to discuss this further.

You clearly have made your mind up that Ole out regardless, wanting him to challenge for a title and giving him championship standard players.

Even football anomalies like City or Psg don't work in a way that manager gets every A target and player for every position in general.
Ole was backed better than most of managers in the world in last few years. He got his A targets in Bruno, Maguire and AWB ( or you or anybody else want to say that they weren't his A choice?). James for sure wasn't his A or B choice but he could have said no, right?
VDB is his choice. He had only praise for him and talked how we tracked him for a year and rumours also were how Ole spoke with VDB before transfer. Was he A or B choice is not matter, Ole wanted him and even if not, he could have said no to that transfer.
He wanted striker. Haaland was A choice, it was not on Ed why he refused to join us. Cavani and Ighalo were offered to him and he accepted. Again, if he didn't want them he could and should have name B,C,D options. If he didn't then it is up to him, right?
He got left back. Nothing to say about that.
Getting new defender after he spent 80 mil on one and having 5 others in squad was irrational thing to expect. I mean, come on, only City can back their manager like that.

So, it is only that right wing. And now comes something where we are in dark. Sancho was his wish but he was too expensive. Blaming club for not spending 120+ on one player while club is taking a huge hit because of covid is spoiled. IF Ole had B or C options for reasonable price and Ed failed to sign them then it is on Ed. If Ole was "Sancho or nothing" then it is on Ole. And in the end he got two young right wingers so he can work with them.

So he was basically fully backed in reality. If we live in FM world then Jose wasn't backed because he didn't get Perisic and Alderveireld for 50 mil each. Moyes wasn't backed because he didn't get Bale and Fabregas.
And what to say about LVG and his A list which includes 10 world stars (Ramos, Lewa, Neymar, Kante, Mane, Higuain...).

 

[Withnail]

Then why haven't we sold Pogba or Martial to fund those purchases? We've got players here we're hanging on to just in case they come good somewhere else. Liverpool had the balls to sell Coutinho and sign players who would balance the team. We're being stupid by not only keeping players against their will but also hanging on for an extra £5m.

That's a separate point. I was talking in the context of him being backed. Liverpool's owners have sold well, topped up what they've gotten in sales to bring in players and have a good hit rate with them.

However, they got lucky with Coutinho and I don't believe balls had anything to do with it. What club is going to turn down 160m? If Barca weren't in for him I don't think there is any chance VVD and Alisson would both be at the club.

I also find it very hard to believe Klopp didn't want any players last year so I'm not convinced he's been backed as much as you are claiming.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Then why haven't we sold Pogba or Martial to fund those purchases? We've got players here we're hanging on to just in case they come good somewhere else. Liverpool had the balls to sell Coutinho and sign players who would balance the team. We're being stupid by not only keeping players against their will but also hanging on for an extra £5m.

Has any club showed solid interest in them and willing to slap the cash down?

 

[romufc]

Even football anomalies like City or Psg don't work in a way that manager gets every A target and player for every position in general.
Ole was backed better than most of managers in the world in last few years. He got his A targets in Bruno, Maguire and AWB ( or you or anybody else want to say that they weren't his A choice?). James for sure wasn't his A or B choice but he could have said no, right?
VDB is his choice. He had only praise for him and talked how we tracked him for a year and rumours also were how Ole spoke with VDB before transfer. Was he A or B choice is not matter, Ole wanted him and even if not, he could have said no to that transfer.
He wanted striker. Haaland was A choice, it was not on Ed why he refused to join us. Cavani and Ighalo were offered to him and he accepted. Again, if he didn't want them he could and should have name B,C,D options. If he didn't then it is up to him, right?
He got left back. Nothing to say about that.
Getting new defender after he spent 80 mil on one and having 5 others in squad was irrational thing to expect. I mean, come on, only City can back their manager like that.

So, it is only that right wing. And now comes something where we are in dark. Sancho was his wish but he was too expensive. Blaming club for not spending 120+ on one player while club is taking a huge hit because of covid is spoiled. IF Ole had B or C options for reasonable price and Ed failed to sign them then it is on Ed. If Ole was "Sancho or nothing" then it is on Ole. And in the end he got two young right wingers so he can work with them.

So he was basically fully backed in reality. If we live in FM world then Jose wasn't backed because he didn't get Perisic and Alderveireld for 50 mil each. Moyes wasn't backed because he didn't get Bale and Fabregas.
And what to say about LVG and his A list which includes 10 world stars (Ramos, Lewa, Neymar, Kante, Mane, Higuain...).

Like you said he was backed. He got backed an was given an objective to get top 4? He delivered.

Now we all know to go further, you need to spend more money on the right players.

VDB was not an Ole target though was he? As for Ole having nice things, which player has Ole slagged of publicly?

Well, if you are a manager and Ed Woodward comes to you and says 2 days before deadline day, we cannot get anyone but we can get you Telles and Cavani, with the squad how it was, you would be crazy to say no? So you have to take that because it is better than nothing.

If you are telling me Cavani and Telles were first choice, why were they signed on deadline day?

 

[SoCross]

Lovely little excerpt about Ole here.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...kjaer-making-of-the-manager-manchester-united

Apologies if already posted.

 

[Striker10]

Then why haven't we sold Pogba or Martial to fund those purchases? We've got players here we're hanging on to just in case they come good somewhere else. Liverpool had the balls to sell Coutinho and sign players who would balance the team. We're being stupid by not only keeping players against their will but also hanging on for an extra £5m.

How much did Barcelona pay for Coutinio? We have created a problem for ourselves. The owners/board know we make money but they waste a lot when they give average players big wages. We have trouble shifting players. I'm sure if Sancho played for Madrid, we'd have offered Pogba in exchange. But no one wants to go Dortmund so it's not so simple. Clubs get greedy. You offer Pogba for 50 million? Clubs will offer below that because they would sense despiration else why sell for so low etc

I don't think we had a bad summer. We invested in the future and who knows! But the problem is how they conduct their business. We went into the season, under a clowd thanks to them clowns. Perception is important. I admire Oles vision. I think Sancho would be great here and he wants to come but the owners have to have common sense. In business, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. So hopefully we can move on. But the owners must understand you can save money by be prudent when handing out contracts.

 

[hungrywing]

 

[Stacks]

And their lies the problem.

Fans want a title challenge based on what you said above.. You claim Ole was backed in this summer because of the players you have listed.

Our priority was RW, CB, CM

This is the difference between our fans who expect a title challenge based on "backing" compared to what backing looks like.

Klopp got a player he doesnt want - the player in 2 seasons before joining liverpool got 76 goals in the 2 seasons before. We got 3 RW who didn't even have 76 first team appearances combined.

We got a CF who was on his way to retirement, whilst other managers are getting players who have just come off a brilliant season.

That is the difference, now if you telling me getting one 18 year old winger and 17 year old who is to join in January is backing then I do not want to discuss this further.

You clearly have made your mind up that Ole out regardless, wanting him to challenge for a title and giving him championship standard players.

How do you know what the priority was unless you are privy to the transfer committee discussions?

Salah scored 33 goals in the 2 seasons prior to joining Liverpool but I understand your sentiment in he was more proven than our wide players no doubt although Telles bagged about 13 goals, along with VDB who bagged 10 so they are proven but not getting games at the minute, which is a decision made.

Nope. This is ONLY Ole 2nd full season. Literally no one in world football would be in a position to mount a title challenge so I dunno where you got the idea he should challenge for a title now. I expect top 4 finish again due to the pandemic limiting our spending. if anything this season Ole gets a slight bye from me.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Like you said he was backed. He got backed an was given an objective to get top 4? He delivered.

Now we all know to go further, you need to spend more money on the right players.

VDB was not an Ole target though was he? As for Ole having nice things, which player has Ole slagged of publicly?

Well, if you are a manager and Ed Woodward comes to you and says 2 days before deadline day, we cannot get anyone but we can get you Telles and Cavani, with the squad how it was, you would be crazy to say no? So you have to take that because it is better than nothing.

If you are telling me Cavani and Telles were first choice, why were they signed on deadline day?

In some way we agree. I don't think too that Cavani or those two rw kids were his targets but i wonder who was then except Sancho?
Telles was his target. Or one of his targets. He was signed in last days because we wanted to get him for right price. By that logic, Smalling, Mendy, Diaz, Thiago weren't targets of their new clubs?
About VDB. It is all about what some of us want to believe. I think he was our target. Classy player who offers depth where we didn't have it. Fits all boxes what Ole wants from players.

I agree about levels of backing. For me, he is backed enough for title challenge. If he does that and fails to win it, no problem. Oppo was better. But he must challenge.
If he got on top of all this, Sancho and Upamecano then i would expect title in next two years.

 

[romufc]

How do you know what the priority was unless you are privy to the transfer committee discussions?

Salah scored 33 goals in the 2 seasons prior to joining Liverpool but I understand your sentiment in he was more proven than our wide players no doubt although Telles bagged about 13 goals, along with VDB who bagged 10 so they are proven but not getting games at the minute, which is a decision made.

Nope. This is ONLY Ole 2nd full season. Literally no one in world football would be in a position to mount a title challenge so I dunno where you got the idea he should challenge for a title now. I expect top 4 finish again due to the pandemic limiting our spending. if anything this season Ole gets a slight bye from me.

So you were in Liverpool's transfer commitee to know that Salah wasn't Klopp's choice?

The difference is we have two players who can play number 10. If we signed Onana, would you say Ole is being backed? No because we already have 2 keepers. That is wasting money.

Telles is a good signing, I agree.

Finally something we agree on, we should not expect a title challenge this season, so what is the point of sacking Ole if the aim is not winning the title? Surely the next manager should be judged on trophies?

Ole was brought in to carry out a rebuild, if he can get us challenging its a positive, if not, in my view he was here to get a squad ready for the next man to mount a title challenge.

If we go and get Poch or someone else, the target is the title not top 4.

 

[romufc]

In some way we agree. I don't think too that Cavani or those two rw kids were his targets but i wonder who was then except Sancho?
Telles was his target. Or one of his targets. He was signed in last days because we wanted to get him for right price. By that logic, Smalling, Mendy, Diaz, Thiago weren't targets of their new clubs?
About VDB. It is all about what some of us want to believe. I think he was our target. Classy player who offers depth where we didn't have it. Fits all boxes what Ole wants from players.

I agree about levels of backing. For me, he is backed enough for title challenge. If he does that and fails to win it, no problem. Oppo was better. But he must challenge.
If he got on top of all this, Sancho and Upamecano then i would expect title in next two years.

Ofcourse, from one fan to another we will have some contrasting views but the bottom line is, we want United to do well.

Telles was a target, I can agree but Cavani, Pellestri, Diallo? I dont know.

VDB, he may be a club target, was available for a good price so we pushed it through, but I can guarantee you that he is not going to be what transforms a team. He needs creative players around him because Donny isnt the one to find the passes, he is more of a link the play by finding space and receiving the ball well.

Which is more or less what I am saying? get 10 points within the champions.

 

[crossy1686]

How much did Barcelona pay for Coutinio? We have created a problem for ourselves. The owners/board know we make money but they waste a lot when they give average players big wages. We have trouble shifting players. I'm sure if Sancho played for Madrid, we'd have offered Pogba in exchange. But no one wants to go Dortmund so it's not so simple. Clubs get greedy. You offer Pogba for 50 million? Clubs will offer below that because they would sense despiration else why sell for so low etc

I don't think we had a bad summer. We invested in the future and who knows! But the problem is how they conduct their business. We went into the season, under a clowd thanks to them clowns. Perception is important. I admire Oles vision. I think Sancho would be great here and he wants to come but the owners have to have common sense. In business, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. So hopefully we can move on. But the owners must understand you can save money by be prudent when handing out contracts.

I think we had a decent summer, it wasn’t a complete train wreck but the main issue is we didn’t sign a single player that strengthens the first 11, we bought squad depth and players that won’t come good for another 3 seasons or so.

My point about Liverpool was that when Klopp wanted VVD he got him, when he wanted Alison, he got him. They were expensive but they got their targets that improved the first 11. They also sold Coutinho to fund those moves. These are things we should be thinking about also.

Does selling Pogba allow us to fund a move for Sancho? Does selling Martial fund a move for Grealish? We’re at a point where we’ve got to ask ourselves what the need is to persist with some players that have been so inconsistent.

 

[crossy1686]

Has any club showed solid interest in them and willing to slap the cash down?

I think Madrid and Juventus shown an interest but were only willing to go as high as €50m

 

[Strelok]

Guys please do not turn this into another OleIn vs OleOut thread. Please.

I'm really tired of that and this is probably the last place here I find that people can talk about Ole without that shite.

 

[FootyGirl88]

I think Madrid and Juventus shown an interest but were only willing to go as high as €50m

Both players are worth more than €50mil anything below is insulting quite frankly.

 

[Stacks]

So you were in Liverpool's transfer commitee to know that Salah wasn't Klopp's choice?

The difference is we have two players who can play number 10. If we signed Onana, would you say Ole is being backed? No because we already have 2 keepers. That is wasting money.

Telles is a good signing, I agree.

Finally something we agree on, we should not expect a title challenge this season, so what is the point of sacking Ole if the aim is not winning the title? Surely the next manager should be judged on trophies?

Ole was brought in to carry out a rebuild, if he can get us challenging its a positive, if not, in my view he was here to get a squad ready for the next man to mount a title challenge.

If we go and get Poch or someone else, the target is the title not top 4.

https://www.sportbible.com/football...s-he-almost-didnt-sign-mohamed-salah-20171217

https://www.football365.com/news/klopp-eyed-german-forward-didnt-really-want-salah
https://www.teamtalk.com/news/liverpool-chief-says-it-wasnt-klopp-who-wanted-to-sign-salah



I don't subscribe to sacking Ole right now by the way. I was just questioning the idea that he isn't backed because we didn't break the transfer window for him every summer including the pandemic window.

 

[crossy1686]

Both players are worth more than €50mil anything below is insulting quite frankly.

They are, but they’re both among our most saleable assets and that’s how much other teams think they’re worth. Goes to show how high their stock is outside of United

 

[alexanderplatz]

Looking at the way things are going at the moment United really should be looking at a title run. Ordinarily I would have thought we’d be some way off but it appears that everyone has so many problems atm that I think why not? I’m not saying that this is a great United team but frankly we have a squad that is good enough to be pushing in the current climate. Ole (who I have backed the whole time) needs to show he can at least get the team competing in this type of season or he will be in difficulty. I can accept lowering of expectations but not when so many opportunities seem to be presenting themselves and so many teams struggling to show anything.

 

[Stacks]

Looking at the way things are going at the moment United really should be looking at a title run. Ordinarily I would have thought we’d be some way off but it appears that everyone has so many problems atm that I think why not? I’m not saying that this is a great United team but frankly we have a squad that is good enough to be pushing in the current climate. Ole (who I have backed the whole time) needs to show he can at least get the team competing in this type of season or he will be in difficulty. I can accept lowering of expectations but not when so many opportunities seem to be presenting themselves and so many teams struggling to show anything.

the problem with this is we only achieved 66 pts last season so I dunno where or how we are suddenly contenders. this season may require 85pts plus rather than the normal 95+ or maybe even 83 but its still nearly 20 pts above our level. Some will try to break last season into pre and post bruno yet we have all our players now and still look like a side on course for the 60s in terms of points. it is early days but I feel we have too many holes to break the 80 pts barrier. This will of course change if our new signings hit the ground running (Telles, VDB and Cavani).

 

[romufc]

https://www.sportbible.com/football...s-he-almost-didnt-sign-mohamed-salah-20171217

https://www.football365.com/news/klopp-eyed-german-forward-didnt-really-want-salah
https://www.teamtalk.com/news/liverpool-chief-says-it-wasnt-klopp-who-wanted-to-sign-salah



I don't subscribe to sacking Ole right now by the way. I was just questioning the idea that he isn't backed because we didn't break the transfer window for him every summer including the pandemic window.

Fair enough.

This issue of backing for me is not becuase we didnt sign Sancho and break the transfer record. I am not that deluded to think that we can cough up £100m which is a struggle in normal times.

The issue I have with the board is not signing a RW, CB or a CDM. We signed a 10 instead, it reminds me of the time we signed Sanchez, when we had 2 LW's at the club.

You have to balance the squad, we all know Greenwood isnt a RW. So who is at the club? No one really which is why James and Mata have to play.

 

[justsomebloke]

the problem with this is we only achieved 66 pts last season so I dunno where or how we are suddenly contenders. this season may require 85pts plus rather than the normal 95+ or maybe even 83 but its still nearly 20 pts above our level. Some will try to break last season into pre and post bruno yet we have all our players now and still look like a side on course for the 60s in terms of points. it is early days but I feel we have too many holes to break the 80 pts barrier. This will of course change if our new signings hit the ground running (Telles, VDB and Cavani).

I think there is every reason to divide last season into pre- and post-Bruno, because we were playing and looking like very different teams. Also, a good deal of Pre-Bruno was with Rashford, Pogba and Martial out injured.

Mathematically, we are currently on pace for 53 points. But that doesn't mean all that much, the projection changes quickly with every win at this early stage. Should we win the next one, we'd already be on pace for 63 - the same as Wolves have currently, and actually ahead of where City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham are right now. We've been lucky in that a lot of other teams in the same expectation bracket has dropped a lot of points too. Beat Everton, and we'd be on pace for 71. Getting to a projected 80+ points isn't a huge way off. Incidentally, only three teams currently project to break 80 - Aston Villa, Everton and Liverpool. And it's probably a fairly safe assumption that only one of those teams have a high likelihood of maintaining that pace.

 

[Stacks]

Fair enough.

This issue of backing for me is not becuase we didnt sign Sancho and break the transfer record. I am not that deluded to think that we can cough up £100m which is a struggle in normal times.

The issue I have with the board is not signing a RW, CB or a CDM. We signed a 10 instead, it reminds me of the time we signed Sanchez, when we had 2 LW's at the club.

You have to balance the squad, we all know Greenwood isnt a RW. So who is at the club? No one really which is why James and Mata have to play.

Yeah I understand but the difficulty is that what fans on redcafe ID as a priority for our squad compare to our manager. We nor Neville know what the manager thinks he needs so we then get mad when the board don't fill the positions that WE claim we needed. For example it seems obvious we need a DMC replace many for Matic yet we bought VDB so now we are having to play 2 DMC because we don't have one as good as prime Fernandinho, Thiago or Makalele

 

[romufc]

Yeah I understand but the difficulty is that what fans on redcafe ID as a priority for our squad compare to our manager. We nor Neville know what the manager thinks he needs so we then get mad when the board don't fill the positions that WE claim we needed. For example it seems obvious we need a DMC replace many for Matic yet we bought VDB so now we are having to play 2 DMC because we don't have one as good as prime Fernandinho, Thiago or Makalele

I do get what you are saying but I will counter that because on this occasion we do know. You would agree that we went in for Sancho? a RW, all the press over the summer was United top priority is a winger. We failed with Sancho and on deadline day thought we could get Dembele and then we signed 2 18 year old RW.

So it is clear that the manager and board knew the RW is a priority. I agree with the DMC, we may think it is but the board / manager didnt.

The winger though, I cannot believe that, we have 0 wingers at the club. Rashford is an inside forward. Greenwood is playing the same, inside forward.

Then we blame James when he plays, it is unfair on the lad. He is not up to scratch and is being played.

 

[Stacks]

I think there is every reason to divide last season into pre- and post-Bruno, because we were playing and looking like very different teams. Also, a good deal of Pre-Bruno was with Rashford, Pogba and Martial out injured.

Mathematically, we are currently on pace for 53 points. But that doesn't mean all that much, the projection changes quickly with every win at this early stage. Should we win the next one, we'd already be on pace for 63 - the same as Wolves have currently, and actually ahead of where City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham are right now. We've been lucky in that a lot of other teams in the same expectation bracket has dropped a lot of points too. Beat Everton, and we'd be on pace for 71. Getting to a projected 80+ points isn't a huge way off. Incidentally, only three teams currently project to break 80 - Aston Villa, Everton and Liverpool. And it's probably a fairly safe assumption that only one of those teams have a high likelihood of maintaining that pace.

It appeared like a bounce and when we came back from the restart with Pogba and Rashford back we started well then I felt performances got suss and we weren't as great a team as people were making out then we were getting outplayed by mistake sides. If you go through our last 10-15 matches, have we really demonstrated that we are a great side who you expect to bag 80 pts domestically

 

[rotherham_red]

Well, a good start then might be to compare the performances against PSG in spring 2019 and last week respectively?

In the first case, we were comprehensively outclassed and dominated, despite winning. I still recall the moment when it dawned on me that we might actually pull it off, and thinking that would be the robbery of the decade.

In the second case, we played on an even footing - while a draw would not have been unfair, a win wasn't either. At least on that night, we looked as good a team as PSG. I'd say that amounts to progress in 18 months.

There had to be a rebuild, and it's not done yet. It will take time. The squad is not good enough to be expected to win titles yet. If you change the manager, the process most likely takes longer rather than shorter. Patience is required.

What matters at this stage is mainly the direction of travel. The achievement last season was ahead of the curve, in my opinion - more than could reasonably be expected. They took more points than any other team after the January window closed. The way the team is playing now, first 3 PL games aside which I think can reasonably be attributed mainly to the virtual absence of a pre-season, tells much the same story. This is now a team that is much better than we were this time last year, or the year before. In addition to being the youngest squad in the top flight of any of the European top 6 leagues last season. I think that's more than sufficient to justify continuity.

Maybe there comes a time when all the necessary pieces are in place and OGS still can't get them over the bump. That's when it's time for a change. But not now.

Fully agreed. Top post.

 

[justsomebloke]

It appeared like a bounce and when we came back from the restart with Pogba and Rashford back we started well then I felt performances got suss and we weren't as great a team as people were making out then we were getting outplayed by mistake sides. If you go through our last 10-15 matches, have we really demonstrated that we are a great side who you expect to bag 80 pts domestically

Well, United had the best record in the PL from 1 Feb onwards. So yes.

 

[AneRu]

Going to have to find a way of getting the best player on the pitch otherwise won't win enough games. The fear of losing has made him revert back to being quite defensive minded. It's a shame cause whichever manager has the balls to win games, will win the most open prem for years!!!

The best player has got to meet the manager half way and stop being a complete defensive liability for that to happen. It's not exactly like we were creating chances galore with him in the team either however I think Ole just has to change his team and play a formation without wingers such that two of Pogba, Bruno and VDB are always on the pitch.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

When did Klopp finish 3rd?

He spent £228m the season they got into the CL final.

You're right, he spent that much to get them playing brilliant football and reach the CL final. That's the sign of a top manager. Ole spent around 185 million (or more?) on Maguire, Bruno, James and AWB to finish 3rd on 66 odd points and doesn't look like he's making angwhr near the same strides. It's not the same sort of progress were making at all.

And to add to that 75 million out of that was VVD a defender. So he improved the attack that much with little spending.

What's with the defensive, divisive language?

People hold different views. That's life.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Why always Klopp? Why we keep comparing Ole with Klopp? What about Conte? First season in club and he won a title with 30 wins in 38 games. Ranieri? Title in first season.

Because you must find another manager with something in common (little else) so as to draw parallels.

It's fine if there are fans who truly believe Ole to be a top class manager who is indeed the right man to win us big trophies. But the whole Klopp/SAF took X number of years doesn't really hold much weight. Base it on his great work or qualities, not on others taking time to achieve something special. For as many Klopps as there are, there are hundreds and hundreds of mangers who don't kick on.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Hold any opinion you like that wasn't the point.

What was the point exactly if you could elaborate? There are sections of fans who hold different views. I'm not referring to race or religion FFS. Didn't know we were that sensitive about things as small as views on footy.

 

[romufc]

You're right, he spent that much to get them playing brilliant football and reach the CL final. That's the sign of a top manager. Ole spent around 185 million (or more?) on Maguire, Bruno, James and AWB to finish 3rd on 66 odd points and doesn't look like he's making angwhr near the same strides. It's not the same sort of progress were making at all.

And to add to that 75 million out of that was VVD a defender. So he improved the attack that much with little spending.

Okay, so hoe much has Ole spent on attack?

Different managers make different progress. Okay so progress in your eyes is based on good football? So are you the judge of good football? People say City play good football and still havent got to a CL final?

Since when does good football translate to trophies?

 

[crossy1686]

You're right, he spent that much to get them playing brilliant football and reach the CL final. That's the sign of a top manager. Ole spent around 185 million (or more?) on Maguire, Bruno, James and AWB to finish 3rd on 66 odd points and doesn't look like he's making angwhr near the same strides. It's not the same sort of progress were making at all.

And to add to that 75 million out of that was VVD a defender. So he improved the attack that much with little spending.


People hold different views. That's life.

Klopp got the players he asked for to improve the first 11. Solskjaer got back up players because the board didn’t want to spend the money.

 

[romufc]

The problem is that some of you see the notion of us being ambitious football that should have a top class manager as "hysterics".

Says you? you want Poch over Ole... what ambition has Poch shown? He is 48 with 0 credentials.

 

[justsomebloke]

I think there needs to be a bit more precision and realism in how we asses the manager's role in recruitment. The way it works in United is that the manager defines needs and evaluates candidates in conjunction with the scouting staff, and has final say on whether to sign a player or not. He doesn't get given a budget and then go out and shop. He doesn't run the negotiations. And he doesn't decide what price and terms is acceptable or not for a given player.

That means you can reasonably hold OGS accountable for how team priorities are set, how transfer targets are evaluated in football terms and for whether it was the right decision to bring a specific player in. You cannot reasonably hold him accountable for whether those priorities are met, or for not bringing certain players in.

ie, he's got responsibility for the decision to sign Donny van de Beek. He doesn't have responsibility for the fact that Sancho or another RW was not signed.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Says you? you want Poch over Ole... what ambition has Poch shown? He is 48 with 0 credentials.

I think Pochettino did a better job at Spurs than Ole has done at the highest level for sure. You only need to see how highly regarded he is his own Spurs fans and see how highly regarded Ole is by ours.

But I wouldn't say Pochettino is a sure shot or should be our 1st choice for next manager either. He could be another case like post peak Wenger who is good at consistently achieving 4th and building a strong team but not a great one. Or he could build on what he did at Spurs and be the right man. But like I said, I think we should aim for the very best managerial talent and I don't Pochettino has done enough to be considered as such.

So yeah, not really in any Pochettino camp per say.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Klopp got the players he asked for to improve the first 11. Solskjaer got back up players because the board didn’t want to spend the money.

What a simplistic take.