Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[amolbhatia50k]

Okay, so hoe much has Ole spent on attack?

He decided to spend more on defence and that's his choice. All in all, around 185 million spent before this summer and around 250 million till date, and you'd expect a team coached by a top class manager to show more progress than we have after that spending.

Also, Livepool's midfield/attack was far worse than ours when he took over.

Either way this is semantics. Top managers improve the teams they take charge of considerably. They elevate the team and you can see their imprint. Not seeing that with Ole.

Different managers make different progress. Okay so progress in your eyes is based on good football? So are you the judge of good football? People say City play good football and still havent got to a CL final?

No, I think bad football is a sign of progress.

Pep has won back to back PL titles and other domestic trophies. Getting his team to play good football won him big trophies.

Since when does good football translate to trophies?

Usually? At least at big clubs it does. Bad football certainly doesn't. Not sure what point you're making.

 

[crossy1686]

What a simplistic take.

Ask yourself if you think any of the players signed this summer improve our first 11, will any of them allow us to kick on to new heights in the league or any competition? The reality is we spent a lot of money strengthening our bench, which won't win us the league because the first 11 are still not good enough to do so.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Ask yourself if you think any of the players signed this summer improve our first 11, will any of them allow us to kick on to new heights in the league or any competition? The reality is we spent a lot of money strengthening our bench, which won't win us the league because the first 11 are still not good enough to do so.

The people who are critical of Ole aren't so because he can't win the league right now ,it's because they dont' feel he is the man who can do that anytime soon.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

The people who are critical of Ole aren't so because he can't win the league right now ,it's because they dont' feel he is the man who can do that anytime soon.

Do these same people think Ole is building a squad that can win the league?

 

[VP89]

Do these same people think Ole is building a squad that can win the league?

Not aimed at me but just want to point out: building a squad that can win the league and implementing good football with consistency are two different points.

I think he has an extremely talented and adaptable squad - good hustlers in the middle, talented play makers, good wingers, full backs and not a bad defense at all. I am expecting a far better level of sustained consistency as a result, so the ups and downs that we saw last year would not be tolerable. This isn't limited to Ole, but any manager who would be approaching his 2nd year in the managerial seat and 2 summer windows under his belt.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Ask yourself if you think any of the players signed this summer improve our first 11, will any of them allow us to kick on to new heights in the league or any competition? The reality is we spent a lot of money strengthening our bench, which won't win us the league because the first 11 are still not good enough to do so.

So you would have preferred for us to make first team signings rather than strengthen our bench that was very weak last season. So what positions in the first team should we have signed players in

 

[CG1010]

Not aimed at me but just want to point out: building a squad that can win the league and implementing good football with consistency are two different points.

I think he has an extremely talented and adaptable squad - good hustlers in the middle, talented play makers, good wingers, full backs and not a bad defense at all. I am expecting a far better level of sustained consistency as a result, so the ups and downs that we saw last year would not be tolerable. This isn't limited to Ole, but any manager who would be approaching his 2nd year in the managerial seat and 2 summer windows under his belt.

Based on the fact that post-January we have had good set of results, I do expect something like 75-80 points. At the same time I don't expect us to do beyond that as the club didn't really improve much this year.

 

[Stacks]

Well, United had the best record in the PL from 1 Feb onwards. So yes.

Scholes suggested it was an easy run in as we weren't expected to win anything and played without the pressure of losing a title. Many of those games we weren't as good as people think but got over the line. I am not convinced. We don't even know what our best line up is

 

[rotherham_red]

Not aimed at me but just want to point out: building a squad that can win the league and implementing good football with consistency are two different points.

I think he has an extremely talented and adaptable squad - good hustlers in the middle, talented play makers, good wingers, full backs and not a bad defense at all. I am expecting a far better level of sustained consistency as a result, so the ups and downs that we saw last year would not be tolerable. This isn't limited to Ole, but any manager who would be approaching his 2nd year in the managerial seat and 2 summer windows under his belt.

This squad is 3rd at best and needed proper quality coming in to relegate some of those who started a lot of our matches last season to the bench.

The business we did this summer, hasn't done that. It's increased the squad in terms of numbers, but the only player who has come in who you could argue can displace a current starter is Alex Telles. Everyone else is either too green (Pellistri, Diallo), too old and largely past it (Cavani), or not really required at this moment in time (VdB - though I do feel Pogba will be leaving at the end of the season, so he will in all likelihood take his place).

The squad depth itself was never the issue. It was the quality of those options, as well as the quality of some elements of our starting XI. Signings like Bruno, AWB, and Maguire were needed, as they displaced the likes of Smalling, Jones, Young and Lingard and Pereira. We needed a similar level of player to displace Greenwood from the RW (and let him develop as a striker), Matic/McTominay/Fred and Lindelof. None of those came in.

Buying more squad players does absolutely nothing for us, and most likely, has only created more deadwood for us to clear off the wage bill in the next few years.

 

[VP89]

This squad is 3rd at best and needed proper quality coming in to relegate some of those who started a lot of our matches last season to the bench.

The business we did this summer, hasn't done that. It's increased the squad in terms of numbers, but the only player who has come in who you could argue can displace a current starter is Alex Telles. Everyone else is either too green (Pellistri, Diallo), too old and largely past it (Cavani), or not really required at this moment in time (VdB - though I do feel Pogba will be leaving at the end of the season, so he will in all likelihood take his place).

The squad depth itself was never the issue. It was the quality of those options, as well as the quality of some elements of our starting XI. Signings like Bruno, AWB, and Maguire were needed, as they displaced the likes of Smalling, Jones, Young and Lingard and Pereira. We needed a similar level of player to displace Greenwood from the RW (and let him develop as a striker), Matic/McTominay/Fred and Lindelof. None of those came in.

Buying more squad players does absolutely nothing for us, and most likely, has only created more deadwood for us to clear off the wage bill in the next few years.

I think we have improved materially since last summer. You can point to Telles as a starter, Cavani as a potential starter if not a brilliant plan B to change games where teams defend deep (we struggled massively with this last season).VDB is also a player who is capable of unlocking teams with his positional awareness and again improves our quality.

I think our first XI is more dynamic as a result of the transfers we made, we can field a defensive midfield duo like we did vs PSG, or we can go for a more flexible creative approach with VDB + Bruno with 1 holding midfielder. If Tuanzebe stays fit that's a big improvement we didn't have last season and as mentioned, Cavani adds a brilliant dimension to our attack.

We are missing a natural right winger, and we may not miss a pacy center back if Tuanzebe stays fit. I disagree that we have not completed summer business to relegate the starts last year. VDB is more than capable of benching an ineffective Pogba or Dan James, Cavani will breathe down Martial's neck if he doesn't perform, Telles does the same to Shaw. It's just up to Ole to show the bottle to do this. He has in some ways, he hasn't yet in others.

 

[romufc]

He decided to spend more on defence and that's his choice. All in all, around 185 million spent before this summer and around 250 million till date, and you'd expect a team coached by a top class manager to show more progress than we have after that spending.

Also, Livepool's midfield/attack was far worse than ours when he took over.

Either way this is semantics. Top managers improve the teams they take charge of considerably. They elevate the team and you can see their imprint. Not seeing that with Ole.


No, I think bad football is a sign of progress.

Pep has won back to back PL titles and other domestic trophies. Getting his team to play good football won him big trophies.


Usually? At least at big clubs it does. Bad football certainly doesn't. Not sure what point you're making.

So you are giving Ole 5 games before deciding he is crap this season?

You cannot see any Ole imprint on the team then?

Pep took over City, did he improve them considerably? they were title challengers before Pep got there, they reached further in the CL without Pep..

 

[VP89]

So you are giving Ole 5 games before deciding he is crap this season?

You cannot see any Ole imprint on the team then?

Pep took over City, did he improve them considerably? they were title challengers before Pep got there, they reached further in the CL without Pep..

I think its clear that he's not evaluating Ole just from 5 games, and Pep took over City after they finished 3rd, 15 points adrift of 1st.

 

[crossy1686]

So you would have preferred for us to make first team signings rather than strengthen our bench that was very weak last season. So what positions in the first team should we have signed players in

We should have signed players that improved the first team and benched current first team players. Sancho in, Dan James benched. Grealish in, Pogba benched. These are the players Solskjaer wanted. Same applies for CB, DM and ST. We should be signing first team players (where available of course) to improve our first 11.

Signing these players strengthens the first team and the bench, not just the bench.

 

[VP89]

We should have signed players that improved the first team and benched current first team players. Sancho in, Dan James benched. Grealish in, Pogba benched. These are the players Solskjaer wanted. Same applies for CB, DM and ST. We should be signing first team players (where available of course) to improve our first 11.

Signing these players strengthens the first team and the bench, not just the bench.

It's fairy tale thinking to suggest we (or any club) were going to fork out whatever the clubs asked for Sancho and Grealish in this environment. Unsurprisingly no other club even bothered despite them being big talents.

Regardless, the thinking of improving the squad is not binary to just "do they improve our XI". Our first XI is dynamic - some games demand suitable wingbacks, in which case Telles is a fantastic upgrade (For what it's worth he's arguably an upgrade on LB too).
Some games require a ruthless target man against deeper blocks (Cavani would be great to start this). Also I'd argue DVB can bench Pogba in a pivot partnership with Bruno as his off the ball pressing is brilliant and he appears to be more aware from a positional perspective.

Telles, Cavani, VDB all have quality and pedigree to start in any given XI, so I'd argue that he been given a material improvement.

 

[crossy1686]

It's fairy tale thinking to suggest we (or any club) were going to fork out whatever the clubs asked for Sancho and Grealish in this environment. Unsurprisingly no other club even bothered despite them being big talents.

Regardless, the thinking of improving the squad is not binary to just "do they improve our XI". Our first XI is dynamic - some games demand suitable wingbacks, in which case Telles is a fantastic upgrade (For what it's worth he's arguably an upgrade on LB too).
Some games require a ruthless target man against deeper blocks (Cavani would be great to start this). Also I'd argue DVB can bench Pogba in a pivot partnership with Bruno as his off the ball pressing is brilliant and he appears to be more aware from a positional perspective.

Telles, Cavani, VDB all have quality and pedigree to start in any given XI, so I'd argue that he been given a material improvement.

This conversation has rumbled on as various other people have got involved at different points, mentioning things that were previously discussed.

My original point raised is that we should have been looking to sell Pogba or someone else in the summer to fund the Sancho move, just as Liverpool sold Coutinho to fund their purchases which made them a better and more balanced team. Obviously, we are limited to what we can do in the current climate but once upon a time, a family called the Glazers tried to buy Manchester United. They went to every broker they could and all of them told them what they were trying to do would never work because the banks wouldn't agree to their terms. All except one broker that is, you know what his name was? Ed Woodward...

Now you're telling me the man who made it possible for the Glazers to buy United can't get creative with the funds?

I'm not unhappy with the business we've done this window, we needed these players to come in. However, we have to be realistic with our expectations this summer because we're not a better team than we were last season. We have better players on the bench but that won't win us a title if the players on the pitch are still better than the players on the bench.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

This conversation has rumbled on as various other people have got involved at different points, mentioning things that were previously discussed.

My original point raised is that we should have been looking to sell Pogba or someone else in the summer to fund the Sancho move, just as Liverpool sold Coutinho to fund their purchases which made them a better and more balanced team. Obviously, we are limited to what we can do in the current climate but once upon a time, a family called the Glazers tried to buy Manchester United. They went to every broker they could and all of them told them what they were trying to do would never work because the banks wouldn't agree to their terms. All except one broker that is, you know what his name was? Ed Woodward...

Now you're telling me the man who made it possible for the Glazers to buy United can't get creative with the funds?

I'm not unhappy with the business we've done this window, we needed these players to come in. However, we have to be realistic with our expectations this summer because we're not a better team than we were last season. We have better players on the bench but that won't win us a title if the players on the pitch are still better than the players on the bench.

We should have signed players that improved the first team and benched current first team players. Sancho in, Dan James benched. Grealish in, Pogba benched. These are the players Solskjaer wanted. Same applies for CB, DM and ST. We should be signing first team players (where available of course) to improve our first 11.

Signing these players strengthens the first team and the bench, not just the bench.

Did you not see our squad last season? You think one transfer window is enough to build a team that can win a title? Sancho and Grealish in one window plus ST and CB? As the saying goes, this isn't football manager.

 

[Stacks]

Klopp got the players he asked for to improve the first 11. Solskjaer got back up players because the board didn’t want to spend the money.

Van Der Beek is a Dutch first teamer who contributed 21 G + A last season, Telles is Brazil 3rd choice LB and contributed 25 G + A last season. They weren't all back up players and would probably be first team eventually this season.

 

[passing-wind]

Can't believe people are moaning over the transfers this current team is near enough its peak. Who's going to make a considerable difference to our starting 11 ? One thing I'm certain of and it's that if we have a more attacking coach and not a pragmatic individual like Ole the team will achieve more beyond its current capabilities. We don't need a renown name we just need an attacking manager with an innovative and creative ideology.

Every week pundits are complaining trying to make sense of our midfield focusing too much on surnames and not enough on the mentality of the manager. I truly believe another manager can balance the entire team simply from coaching implementation. Before anyone tells me Solskjaer is a good coach we haven't played one fixture aside against Cardiff whereby the duration of the match was positive possession and utilisation of space. Ole has also NEVER been considered a good coach it doesn't just come out of thin air.

Hansi Flick is the perfect example and analogy of one group of players being bang average under one manager and completely changing fortunes under another. This is what the reality will be unless Ole can overnight become more proficient in his ability to move the team forward. But given his years in management, the lack of consistency at the club I don't see him making this transition.

 

[alexanderplatz]

the problem with this is we only achieved 66 pts last season so I dunno where or how we are suddenly contenders. this season may require 85pts plus rather than the normal 95+ or maybe even 83 but its still nearly 20 pts above our level. Some will try to break last season into pre and post bruno yet we have all our players now and still look like a side on course for the 60s in terms of points. it is early days but I feel we have too many holes to break the 80 pts barrier. This will of course change if our new signings hit the ground running (Telles, VDB and Cavani).

Good points. My point was that everyone is a lot weaker now and completely agree with your thoughts on the number of points required. That said, we have improved sufficiently to approach that 80 points barrier in my opinion (appreciate that is not shared by everyone). I think the last few years have been so competitive that it was ok to be falling short but I feel this year should be a test of the ability to rise above. I believe that if we are just going to finish far off in a real low points season, just like in a regular season, then it would be a problem that points to the mentality and motivation of the team. Minimising the mistakes and even competing for much of the season before falling off would be an improvement

 

[romufc]

I think its clear that he's not evaluating Ole just from 5 games, and Pep took over City after they finished 3rd, 15 points adrift of 1st.

Yeh took over a team that had KDB, Kompany, Sterling, Aguero, Silva and spend £470m before winning the league.

Ole has spent £250m and we are giving hi 5 games this season?

Did he not achieve the target set last season?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Do these same people think Ole is building a squad that can win the league?

I doubt it. Besides, a squad doesn't win anything without a manager getting them to perform like a really cohesive collective, barring some rare occasions when they've anyway been winning the past too.

 

[Shark]

If we we were to lose or draw at home tonight, when is the last time we've actually won a home game under Ole?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

So you are giving Ole 5 games before deciding he is crap this season?

I don't need to conclude anything with finality for a season that's just begun. But we've been awful this season thus far. Let's see how it goes beyond this. Hopefully, really well.

You cannot see any Ole imprint on the team then?

A weak one.

Pep took over City, did he improve them considerably? they were title challengers before Pep got there, they reached further in the CL without Pep..

Yes, considerably. They edged us to 4th the season before he joined. After just the one transitional season he had them playing incredible attacking football, winning back to back league titles and hitting ridiculous points totals. It's tough comparison - one of the all time greats, against Ole.

 

[romufc]

I don't need to conclude anything with finality for a season that's just begun. But we've been awful this season thus far. Let's see how it goes beyond this. Hopefully, really well.


A weak one.


Yes, considerably. They edged us to 4th the season before he joined. After just the one transitional season he had them playing incredible attacking football, winning back to back league titles and hitting ridiculous points totals. It's tough comparison - one of the all time greats, against Ole.

At the end of the day, we have had managers come and go. Managers with great pedigree, trophies, playing styles and they have all flopped.

When Ole came in, no one promised the league title, it was a 3 year plan, get rid of deadwood and buy young for the future.

We have done well in that regards and If Ole fails this season, he will leave behind a squad that with a few tactical switches and 1/2 additions can challenge for the title.

I am willing to give Ole next 10 games to see what he can do, not because I think he is the best tactician, or he is the best manager. He hit his target last season for top 4, this season its to close the gap, if we are 10/12 points of the leaders in December, his position will be under massive threat.

 

[crossy1686]

Did you not see our squad last season? You think one transfer window is enough to build a team that can win a title? Sancho and Grealish in one window plus ST and CB? As the saying goes, this isn't football manager.

You can go back and look through all my messages and quote me where I said we should be challenging. People keep saying Ole's has been backed but in reality, he hasn't. They've spent money to appease people but they haven't spent it well, yet again.

 

[Bebestation]

My problem with Ole is that whilst I want Grealish, Haaland and Sancho - they were clearly being targeted to fit a 4231.

Like why? What is so good about this formation that he needs to build it as our main tactic?

Can he not build anything else?

Moyes, Mourinho and Ole are all 4231 managers and whilst I'm not Ole out - I do think having a manager who is able to build a formation that fits the players rather than buying players to fit a formation would be better for us for once.

 

[VP89]

Yeh took over a team that had KDB, Kompany, Sterling, Aguero, Silva and spend £470m before winning the league.

Ole has spent £250m and we are giving hi 5 games this season?

Did he not achieve the target set last season?

I don't think anyone is denying Pep has spent a lot of money to get his titles but at the same time you shouldn't depend only on money spent. For example Rodgers came in spent peanuts, Lampard came in spent nil last season. We ended the table a whisker away from one another, despite Ole spending almost 200m and being with the club for 6 months longer, so the money debate can really be spun in whatever angle you want it to. Liverpool won the league with what was it, 25m net spend? Should this be the barometer of Ole? Of course not, because just like they are an extreme on their spending, City were an extreme the other way on theirs.

I'm not sure why you refer to league standing as a standalone. It's never black and white in that regard, by way of reducing it to achieved or un-achieved. There is a process and it takes time to build things, I agree we need to appreciate that and put things into context.

He achieved 3rd, and he also was 90 minutes and arguably a full Leicester XI away from finishing 5th. That game shouldn't be the difference between Ole being a hit and achieving targets or being a complete miss and being sacked (even though he may well have been). What we are looking at is the impact he's made on the squad during the time here, how he's built the consistency not only by results but in our pattern of play. For example there was a strong change that was seen in every game City played under Pep or Liverpool played under Klopp, or Spurs played under Poch. One can point to this and say OK something is happening here, I can identify with how they are set out out and after a season of familiarity these sides were truly off and running.

Now I'm not saying Ole has flopped already, but I'm saying it's going to be 2 years in December so right now really is showtime for him. As for your 5 games part, I've already addressed it's not solely from that.

 

[romufc]

I don't think anyone is denying Pep has spent a lot of money to get his titles but at the same time you shouldn't depend only on money spent. For example Rodgers came in spent peanuts, Lampard came in spent nil last season. We ended the table a whisker away from one another, despite Ole spending almost 200m and being with the club for 6 months longer, so the money debate can really be spun in whatever angle you want it to. Liverpool won the league with what was it, 25m net spend? Should this be the barometer of Ole? Of course not, because just like they are an extreme on their spending, City were an extreme the other way on theirs.

I'm not sure why you refer to league standing as a standalone. It's never black and white in that regard, by way of reducing it to achieved or un-achieved. There is a process and it takes time to build things, I agree we need to appreciate that and put things into context.

He achieved 3rd, and he also was 90 minutes and arguably a full Leicester XI away from finishing 5th. That game shouldn't be the difference between Ole being a hit and achieving targets or being a complete miss and being sacked (even though he may well have been). What we are looking at is the impact he's made on the squad during the time here, how he's built the consistency not only by results but in our pattern of play. For example there was a strong change that was seen in every game City played under Pep or Liverpool played under Klopp, or Spurs played under Poch. One can point to this and say OK something is happening here, I can identify with how they are set out out and after a season of familiarity these sides were truly off and running.

Now I'm not saying Ole has flopped already, but I'm saying it's going to be 2 years in December so right now really is showtime for him. As for your 5 games part, I've already addressed it's not solely from that.

I get what you are saying, Chelsea did finish 3rd the season before still though.

He was 90 mins from being 5th and full strength Leicester team? Like we had 0 injuries all season? We beat Leicester to get 3rd not a relegation team. The league is 38 games right? We lost the league on the final day before as well, does it say in the history book, City won the league with the last kick? or does it say champions in that year?

Again, If John Terry doesnt slip we dont have another CL title. Its always fine margins in football.

2 years in December yes, we played well in the first 11 games no? We played decent pre and post lockdown.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

You can go back and look through all my messages and quote me where I said we should be challenging. People keep saying Ole's has been backed but in reality, he hasn't. They've spent money to appease people but they haven't spent it well, yet again.

I think Ole has been backed though not enough as we could have done with a proven RW this window. I don't think the club has spent money to appease people. Tell me one player you think we've spent money on that you think Ole did not want.

 

[VP89]

I get what you are saying, Chelsea did finish 3rd the season before still though.

He was 90 mins from being 5th and full strength Leicester team? Like we had 0 injuries all season? We beat Leicester to get 3rd not a relegation team. The league is 38 games right? We lost the league on the final day before as well, does it say in the history book, City won the league with the last kick? or does it say champions in that year?

Again, If John Terry doesnt slip we dont have another CL title. Its always fine margins in football.

2 years in December yes, we played well in the first 11 games no? We played decent pre and post lockdown.

You're jumping around in your examples. Being a slip away from the Champions League or 3 points off the title doesn't take away from the fact that the squad actually challenged for the silverware up to the end. It's not really comparable to being 1 game off top 4, that is truly not the barometer for this club. The minimum expectation was a comfortable top 4 finish for Ole after 6 months in the role and a full summer under his belt - not a crazy comeback post lockdown. Credit where it's due though, he did get to the top 4 so he's met this minimum expectation.

Of course we had injuries, but our squad wasn't weaker than Leicester and for the post covid stretch they were missing Maddison, Pereira, Chilwell etc. In fact I think he had 3/4 of his back 4 out injured when they lost 1-0 to us (Pereira, Soyuncu, Chilwell out). So I'm not really interested in playing the injury excuse for Manchester United. What I'm saying is, there needs to be a consistency in the way we go about playing our football and then the results also need to reflect improved consistency.

Last year Ole met the minimum objectives of top 4, so by all accounts he deserves the right to continue based off this. But this season there will be no more tolerances for yo-yo like form, relative to other teams of course. In other words if we are up and down while other clubs aren't, then warning signs which appeared last season will be far more prominent this time.

 

[romufc]

You're jumping around in your examples. Being a slip away from the Champions League or 3 points off the title doesn't take away from the fact that the squad actually challenged for the silverware up to the end. It's not really comparable to being 1 game off top 4, that is truly not the barometer for this club.

Of course we had injuries, but our squad wasn't weaker than Leicester and for the post covid stretch they were missing Maddison, Pereira, Chilwell etc. In fact I think he had 3/4 of his back 4 out injured when they lost 1-0 to us (Pereira, Soyuncu, Chilwell out). So I'm not really interested in playing the injury excuse for Manchester United. What I'm saying is, there needs to be a consistency in the way we go about playing our football and then the results also need to reflect improved consistency.

Last year Ole met the minimum objectives of top 4, so by all accounts he deserves the right to continue based off this. But this season there will be no more tolerances for yo-yo like form, relative to other teams of course. In other words if we are up and down while other clubs aren't, then warning signs which appeared last season will be far more prominent this time.

And I agree with you on that. We do need to improve on that, something we have not achieved under Ole since he got the permanent job.

Again, I agree that this season injuries, number of games cannot be used as an excuse because he has got the squad to cover and every position.

In my view, if we are more than 12 points from the title winners, he should be sacked. Regardless of where we finish in the league.

 

[VP89]

This conversation has rumbled on as various other people have got involved at different points, mentioning things that were previously discussed.

My original point raised is that we should have been looking to sell Pogba or someone else in the summer to fund the Sancho move, just as Liverpool sold Coutinho to fund their purchases which made them a better and more balanced team. Obviously, we are limited to what we can do in the current climate but once upon a time, a family called the Glazers tried to buy Manchester United. They went to every broker they could and all of them told them what they were trying to do would never work because the banks wouldn't agree to their terms. All except one broker that is, you know what his name was? Ed Woodward...

There is a huge assumption here that clubs wanted Pogba. By all reports its clear that no club was willing to spend close to Pogba's worth, so it's much easier said than done. Now, if we can't sell Pogba how can we release funds to justify Sancho? All things considered I think we did a good job looking back. We had a maximum amount we'd offer for Sancho, which we knew would be rejected midway through the window. What we did not know was whether Dortmund would panic and settle at the close of the window. We had to just play it out and see for ourselves, but one thing the board was intent on was that they would not pay a stupid fee for Sancho. I like this because we showed to be moving away from just getting ripped off, when no other club was making such moves in an uncertain environment why should we bend over for it?

Now you're telling me the man who made it possible for the Glazers to buy United can't get creative with the funds?

I firmly believe if Dortmund were ready to accept a creative offer for Sancho he'd be here, but the credible reports suggest they wanted 120m in cold cash. Which was daft, no club was coming close to that.

I'm not unhappy with the business we've done this window, we needed these players to come in. However, we have to be realistic with our expectations this summer because we're not a better team than we were last season. We have better players on the bench but that won't win us a title if the players on the pitch are still better than the players on the bench.

We have players that improve our first XI, not just improve our bench. Cavani against deeper teams is a arguably better option than Martial in the 9, Donny can conceivably add more value than Pogba and Telles is an upgrade on Shaw. These players are far from just bench players.

 

[Volumiza]

Like why? What is so good about this formation that he needs to build it as our main tactic?

Can he not build anything else?

But if ultimately that fits how he wants to play, why shouldn't he buy players to fit that formation? I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to set up another way but as head coach / manager I would expect him to have a strong idea how he wants to set up. Then, when it's done, he has to live or die by the sword no?

 

[meamth]

When he took over, nobody thought he can do a job here, just to hang on until the season ends.

He proceeds to win 14 out of 19 games. Who does that?
He got to the new season, lost Martial for few months, lost Pogba for almost a year, lost Rashford most of the season, still managed to beat all the top 6. Who does that?
Managed to get 3rd even without his key players, who does that?

You're telling me this guy is a PE teacher? fecking hell.

 

[Bebestation]

But if ultimately that fits how he wants to play, why shouldn't he buy players to fit that formation? I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to set up another way but as head coach / manager I would expect him to have a strong idea how he wants to set up. Then, when it's done, he has to live or die by the sword no?

Does 4231 get the best out of our current players?

Does Rashford and Greenwood play better as LAM/RAM or LW,LF,RW &RF?

Does martial play better as the furthest player forward trying to get in to the box or deeper playing as a false 9 trying to interlink players like Rashford & Greenwood.

Neville highlighted something I've been asking for ages - why cant Bruno and Pogba play in a midfield 2 like De bruyne and Silva? Bruno has more defensive ability than Pogba yet we played Pogba in the most deepest of positions because Ole needed the 4231 to work as his tactics and fits players accordingly. If we played Pogba and Bruno as CM/CAM last season or atleast Ole had it in his mind after Pogbas return - then we could have gone for a single CDM player during the transfer window that can play like Fernandinho behind De bruyne and Silva.

Why did Mourinho buy Lukaku & Sanchez whilst wanting Perisic aswell? It's because he only uses one type of striker for one type of formation, only uses one type of inverted winger whilst the other has to provide crosses to his one and only type of striker. Do you think Jose would ever utilise a false 9 player for a whole season even if he had a young unexploded Messi at his disposal? What about Firmino? No matter how crap people assume he is - Klopp wasnt just a manager that utelises a striker like Lewandowski all the time - viewed the players at his disposal and adapted his tactics to fit those players.

I dont think alot of our choice of managers, past present and future are able to do that. I'm just tired of players being bought to fit a pre planned formation when the ideal manager should be doing the opposite, build a formation to fit their players and make an improvement from there.

 

[Volumiza]

Does 4231 get the best out of our current players?

I don't believe so no, it isn't how I would set up anyway, but I'm nothing but an armchair manager. I was just stating that is obviously Ole's preferred set up so I would expect him to buy players he thinks will fit. He will either succeed or fail on what he believes.

 

[romufc]

When he took over, nobody thought he can do a job here, just to hang on until the season ends.

He proceeds to win 14 out of 19 games. Who does that?
He got to the new season, lost Martial for few months, lost Pogba for almost a year, lost Rashford most of the season, still managed to beat all the top 6. Who does that?
Managed to get 3rd even without his key players, who does that?

You're telling me this guy is a PE teacher? fecking hell.

This. Context is important.

 

[CG1010]

When he took over, nobody thought he can do a job here, just to hang on until the season ends.

He proceeds to win 14 out of 19 games. Who does that?
He got to the new season, lost Martial for few months, lost Pogba for almost a year, lost Rashford most of the season, still managed to beat all the top 6. Who does that?
Managed to get 3rd even without his key players, who does that?

You're telling me this guy is a PE teacher? fecking hell.

To add to that bit about last season, in addition to the injuries he is left with a thread bare attack by the exit of Lukaku and Sanchez with no proper replacement. As soon as he got one in Bruno, the results picked up!

 

[crossy1686]

I think Ole has been backed though not enough as we could have done with a proven RW this window. I don't think the club has spent money to appease people. Tell me one player you think we've spent money on that you think Ole did not want.

VDB wasn't Ole's first choice and neither was Cavani. He took them because that's what he was offered, those or nothing. We needed a player like Telles but I don't think he was on our list until it became apparent he was leaving. The lateness of all our transfers suggests we were poking around in the dark all summer.

 

[VP89]

VDB wasn't Ole's first choice and neither was Cavani. He took them because that's what he was offered, those or nothing. We needed a player like Telles but I don't think he was on our list until it became apparent he was leaving. The lateness of all our transfers suggests we were poking around in the dark all summer.

VDB wasn't late. Telles was scouted early on, the work permit for Diallo was applied for early on and we were monitoring Pellistri for a while. The only last minute deal was an opportunistic grab for Cavani, which I see no problems with.