I agree with @sammsky1 that Ole has a group of players that aren't as good as some of the opposition but are definitely in contention for the various competitions. Credit to Ole - shame he wasn't backed further this summer as we're probably 2-3 players away from having a squad that matches City/Liverpool.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Hope he can get us over the line in the League Cup. Solskjaer's got us in the best shape of any manager post Ferguson and deserves something to show for it.
These 2 years under Ole have really been much more enjoyable then anything we saw since Fergie left. Even if he fails in the end we'll be left with much stronger team then there was when Ole took over.
Probably unluckiest manager when it comes to cup draws though. 2018/19 FA cup (Arsenal away, Chelsea away, Wolves away), PSG then Barca in UCL. 2019/20 got Chelsea in 4th round of league cup, City in semis. This season got PSG and Leipzig in UCL group, now Everton then City again in Carabao cup.
Probably unluckiest manager when it comes to cup draws though. 2018/19 FA cup (Arsenal away, Chelsea away, Wolves away), PSG then Barca in UCL. 2019/20 got Chelsea in 4th round of league cup, City in semis. This season got PSG and Leipzig in UCL group, now Everton then City again in Carabao cup.
I am sorry but some fans behave like club operate with monopoly money. We spent nearly 300mil in two years. I am not sure are we no1 in that but we are defo in top 3.
He got all players who he wanted. On some of them we overpayed just because he wanted them by name (Harry, AWB, Bruno). That is bloody backing.
This year when clubs are losing tons of money and most of clubs avoided spending money, we spent over 100mil. That is backing.
He didn't get Sancho. But it was 120 mil transfer. It was impossible transfer in these covid time. How you or anybody else can blame Glazers for that?
Ole outUnbeaten in domestic away games since January
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Where did we finish last season and what is our league position right now?
Agreed, without a doubt the most enjoyable time since Fergie left.
Have been following United since the days of Big Ron. No United manager in my lifetime has got as many short straws in cup draws as Ole has in the last two years.
He got everything right today.
I liked the positive substitution he did near the end of the match...
Brought on Luke Shaw for Telles - commentary were puzzled by it saying, "Telles is a penalty taker, took several for Porto"
...Ole clearly not thinking about penalties and a few minutes later we break the deadlock through Cavani
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Will break my reply down into parts so it doesn't become a wall of waffle.
1.) We've spent just shy of £200m (net) since Ole became manager. This is not crazy levels of investment given the state of the squad he took over and how much it's improved in this time.
2.) I don't think we overpaid on Maguire, AWB or Bruno relative to the market. Thinking about it, they're probably all contenders for 'best signing in position' over the past 12 years. Can't think of a better CB, CAM or RB we've signed than those 3!
3.) We spent £60m (net) over the summer, which again is not a huge amount. Understandable given the circumstances that we spent less, though.
It's unfair to paint Ole as a chequebook manager when his spending has been in-line (or less) than all of his peers. For that reason, and the fact we didn't land a RM/CDM target this summer, I think that he's performing beyond expectation currently.
I wish Liverpool thought like this when they hired Klopp. He'd be out and they'd still be in the wilderness.
Not to say Ole will get us back to our "glory" days, but my he need time to continue doing what he is so clearly doing. Setting targets like this as ultimatums just sets unrealistic expectations that will ultimately result in disappointment.
Give the guy some time, he is setting us up to do great things, with or without him, and that's his words. He knows, no one is bigger than the club. Himself included.
I’m enjoying myself these days. I just have to remind myself to avoid the wrong threads here on the wrong days, lest I get myself convinced that life is depressing.
He does possess a Mourinho-esque mindset in games like this, doesn't he?
I mean yeah if our forwards were more clinical we could've won but I'd bet Mourinho would say this about a lot of games he lost or drew.
When the team doesn't stamp their authority against teams like Leicester, the result will often hinge on just those few moments that could go either way.
I mean yeah if our forwards were more clinical we could've won but I'd bet Mourinho would say this about a lot of games he lost or drew.
When the team doesn't stamp their authority against teams like Leicester, the result will often hinge on just those few moments that could go either way.
It turns out that he's a pragmatic manager. Which is funny because when he became the care taker manager, people thought we had a manager that would go 'attack attack attack', make his team play fluid football and score loads of goals. The first few months he looked like a complete opposite of Mourinho.
I don’t really know what you expect. We’re not talking about Mourinho complaining about a single innocuous chance in a 0-0 bore fest here, we’re talking multiple glorious chances which are missed, time and time again.
No matter how you play, if you don’t take your chances, you’re not going to win the game, plain and simple.
There's no way the United under Mourinho scores 2 goals there. We created tons of chances in the game (Rashford should have had a hattrick easy). Under Jose we'd still be talking about that one chance Lukaku could have had had his touch not been shit.
Leicester didnt teach us much new as they will come and attack us, which always plays into our hands.
I still dont see much organisation going on. Our defensive shape is good but we allow too much pressure, whilst our attack is a free for all. We dont have repeated patterns of play beyond our counter attacks. Day to day it's unlikely that's Ole's fault as thats what Carrick, McKenna and co are for, but it all falls on him eventually.
If Ole is to take us to the next level i think he needs to get better coaches in. Look how much SAF relied on coaches like Quieroz. Hes assembled a good squad and the players are motivated under him, but that's not going to be enough on it's own.
I still dont see much organisation going on. Our defensive shape is good but we allow too much pressure, whilst our attack is a free for all. We dont have repeated patterns of play beyond our counter attacks. Day to day it's unlikely that's Ole's fault as thats what Carrick, McKenna and co are for, but it all falls on him eventually.
If Ole is to take us to the next level i think he needs to get better coaches in. Look how much SAF relied on coaches like Quieroz. Hes assembled a good squad and the players are motivated under him, but that's not going to be enough on it's own.
Exactly. A lot of lucky people on this forum seem to have forgotten what it was like to watch us play under Mourinho and Van Gaal.
We do play fluid football and score loads of goals, he certainly isn't anywhere near the level of Mourinho in pragmatism but I will admit he does appreciate the oppositions strengths and normally has some sort of set up to deal with it.
Yesterday for example he was worried about Leicesters pace on the counter, we still pressed Leicester at times but not complete gung ho with a suicidal high line so that when leicester beat the press they weren't running in behind our defence, we left the space infront so we could reorganise and drop back. In turn bringing Leicester forward and giving us the option to use our pace on the counter attack.
It's nothing more than having tactical awareness, and it worked Leicester had 2 shots on target both of which were half chances that both took unfortunate deflections to take them past de gea, in other words they got lucky.
You can just go gung ho against good counter attacking teams who are more than capable of working there way out of a press, City tried it earlier in the season against leicester and got beat heavily.
We found out after the game why Axel didn't start so the Lindelöf RB situation was forced on him as despite his talk he clearly doesn't trust Williams. The only real critique of Ole yesterday was starting James, as we know he offers little in compact games and Mason has shown he can do the graft if instructed, I'm guessing Rashford couldn't play RW because Cavani can't start back to back games. Bottom line is we win the game yesterday if Bruno, McTominay, Maguire and Bailly don't feck up simplistic shit, scoring 2 goals away to a team that is 2nd in the league should be enough.
What was the reason for Tuanzebe not starting?
So right about the cup draws! Hopefully things improve for us next season in that regard.
So glad the ridiculous Sack or Keep Ole thread has gone! Well done mods.
Agree.
I never understand the logic of some of our supporters that whenever we drop points Ole is termed a defensive manager. Well he is not a defensive manager ffs. We cannot organize a defense, have people even seen how open we look. We attack well but defend like amateurs, surely that is not a sign of defensive manager..
Being blunt would be personally distraught and livid if this season ends trophyless. Wouldn't relive Jose's time here for anything but also wouldn't trade those trophies for a barren season. Already antsy at being trophyless for 2 seasons. This is new territory for us. We've tended to win trophies even in our post-Fergie years. At least we should see out the league cup. Ties like Wolves away are nothing, winners of domestic cups have always had to beat 2 big teams to get there. Drawing a team like Wolves away is a giftwrap. Our CL draw was unfortunate but we haven't run into much misfortune in the other cups this season just yet
Not ready to roll over and die just because we don't get an easy draw
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The league doesn't lie and Ole has managed to get Utd into a good position. The result agaist Leicester was ok and, whilst the performance deserved a win, has left Utd in a good position in the league.
Ole is coming across much better in interviews than he did early on. He still gets into word muddles which I dislike, I actually think he should speak less and say more.
Utd's squad looks great and Ole has moved them into striking distance. A few more bodies out the door and some shrewd signings and Utd could be contenders.
I kind of think alot of posters on here would only be happy if they themselves were manager. Champions league exit was maybe Ole's fault but he will learn from that. I am definately warming to him.
Ole is coming across much better in interviews than he did early on. He still gets into word muddles which I dislike, I actually think he should speak less and say more.
Utd's squad looks great and Ole has moved them into striking distance. A few more bodies out the door and some shrewd signings and Utd could be contenders.
I kind of think alot of posters on here would only be happy if they themselves were manager. Champions league exit was maybe Ole's fault but he will learn from that. I am definately warming to him.
To be fair, we had more than enough chances to beat Leicester. The blame lies with the players so far as I’m concerned. Losing two points so late is shite, but it can be looked back on as a positive draw if we can lay down the law to Wolves and Villa. A bit like how our point against City looks okay in retrospect.
More positive football after going ahead, so often even in our comebacks we retreat way too much in our half and just wait for the attacks from the opposition after scoring.
3 goals in 5 games against last year's top 6 and Arsenal, the goals we conceded apart from the Spurs game weren't because we were too attacking or anything like that.
My points against him
1. The pressing, we press like a Sunday league football team, a player jog here another walking there, Bruno running his ass out while Rashford and Martial doing only visual pressing. These pressing patterns is 100% a coaching style, of course the players must do it on the ground, but if a player not obeying the managers instructions then he should be out and the manager is responsible for that.
2. Our defensive form, despite him spending 150m on defenders we are shit, and by shit I mean in regards to how much we invested in the back 4. Why are we poor at the back? he bought 3 players all of the considered to be between the best in their position. It is totally on him and his coaching style.
3. Set pieces and crosses, does he and his staff ever train the players on defending set pieces and crosses? Every fecking corner feels like a penalty. I am more afraid from corners than free kicks on the edge of the box.
4. Mentality , we often go into big games as underdogs, why the feck is this? and even against lesser teams sometimes, This has cost us the CL next stage.
5. Changing the formation too much, style of play, why do we need to change the formation every 2-3 games, today diamond, tomorrow 5 at the back, back to 4231 shifting to 433? I bet it confuses the players too much, it is of course very good to have a team that can adapt to different tactics, but ffs we need to have a style first. We play nothing like a possession football team (Pep), and nothing like high press team (Munich, Liverpool, etc). What is our style?
6.In-Game management, just look at his decision making in PSG home game! It was pure stupidity! I have to give him credit for the times he get it right during the game, but he needs to make more right calls than making stupid ones.
My points with him
1,The squad is much better, he has done a good job in cleaning the squad, all the players he bought I think are good players, even Dan James we could argue is not a total loss cause he did not cost that much.
2.The club's environment, he has done a very good job in removing the toxicity that Jose implanted in the club, it took few months but he did it well.
3. He is a club Legend, There is nothing better than winning titles with a club legend in charge. He is loved by all united fans and hated by our rivals. He is maybe the cause hundreds of millions of supporters started supporting the club after his 99 final goal.
4.The players do believe in him, I think it is not a coincidence every time things gets tough, he come out of it because I feel he gets some fight from the players and that is because he trusted them and made a good working environment.
5,despite the negativity around him he is still in the fight, I like that he has continued his work despite everything going around him, can be tough to hear other managers names being mentioned all the time when it gets tough.
With all the love I have for him as a united legend, I dont think he is the one to get us back to the titles, there are many flaws in him that means we can keep pushing for top 4 but never have the edge to win big things. I did not want him to be permanat manager from the begging, the job is too big for him, it broke Jose and LVG who are bigger managers than him. He earned a chance to stay another year after finishing 3rd (despite the fact it was historically low point for a 3rd). But this year should be the title race as I said in the beginning of the season, he should show a title challenge performance, otherwise if is top 4 fight again that runs to the last game of the season, then no he should go.
1. The pressing, we press like a Sunday league football team, a player jog here another walking there, Bruno running his ass out while Rashford and Martial doing only visual pressing. These pressing patterns is 100% a coaching style, of course the players must do it on the ground, but if a player not obeying the managers instructions then he should be out and the manager is responsible for that.
2. Our defensive form, despite him spending 150m on defenders we are shit, and by shit I mean in regards to how much we invested in the back 4. Why are we poor at the back? he bought 3 players all of the considered to be between the best in their position. It is totally on him and his coaching style.
3. Set pieces and crosses, does he and his staff ever train the players on defending set pieces and crosses? Every fecking corner feels like a penalty. I am more afraid from corners than free kicks on the edge of the box.
4. Mentality , we often go into big games as underdogs, why the feck is this? and even against lesser teams sometimes, This has cost us the CL next stage.
5. Changing the formation too much, style of play, why do we need to change the formation every 2-3 games, today diamond, tomorrow 5 at the back, back to 4231 shifting to 433? I bet it confuses the players too much, it is of course very good to have a team that can adapt to different tactics, but ffs we need to have a style first. We play nothing like a possession football team (Pep), and nothing like high press team (Munich, Liverpool, etc). What is our style?
6.In-Game management, just look at his decision making in PSG home game! It was pure stupidity! I have to give him credit for the times he get it right during the game, but he needs to make more right calls than making stupid ones.
My points with him
1,The squad is much better, he has done a good job in cleaning the squad, all the players he bought I think are good players, even Dan James we could argue is not a total loss cause he did not cost that much.
2.The club's environment, he has done a very good job in removing the toxicity that Jose implanted in the club, it took few months but he did it well.
3. He is a club Legend, There is nothing better than winning titles with a club legend in charge. He is loved by all united fans and hated by our rivals. He is maybe the cause hundreds of millions of supporters started supporting the club after his 99 final goal.
4.The players do believe in him, I think it is not a coincidence every time things gets tough, he come out of it because I feel he gets some fight from the players and that is because he trusted them and made a good working environment.
5,despite the negativity around him he is still in the fight, I like that he has continued his work despite everything going around him, can be tough to hear other managers names being mentioned all the time when it gets tough.
With all the love I have for him as a united legend, I dont think he is the one to get us back to the titles, there are many flaws in him that means we can keep pushing for top 4 but never have the edge to win big things. I did not want him to be permanat manager from the begging, the job is too big for him, it broke Jose and LVG who are bigger managers than him. He earned a chance to stay another year after finishing 3rd (despite the fact it was historically low point for a 3rd). But this year should be the title race as I said in the beginning of the season, he should show a title challenge performance, otherwise if is top 4 fight again that runs to the last game of the season, then no he should go.
He has a hamstring problem and couldn't play back to back 90 minutes, he came on as Lindelof has also had back issues since October.
We were not defensive against Chelsea or arsenal. In fact Chelsea came for a draw and just sat back. Mendy and silva were their best player. Had rashford been more clinical we would have won. Against arsenal we were just awful, not defensive. City was one game where we looked defensive but then so did City. We were coming of the CL exit so it was natural to play with not lose mentality.
But I just don't buy this argument that he is a defensive coach or is similar to Jose. A defensive coach would have made sure we were not that open against Leipzig and PSG when all we needed was a point. Ole and coaching staff need to fix our defensive shape.
This really isn’t an issue, as demonstrated by beating Leeds 6-2 a few days ago. What we are is sloppy, which is the only reason why we drew yesterday.
Good post. You are absolutely right about all the negatives, and that is my biggest problem with him. He has had over two years to fix his pressing for example, yet he can't do it. Or the defense. And very few question this, I think Ole is having an easy ride because all Ole iners just say "he needs better players" despite splashing £150m on his defense alone. And how about developing the ones he got and develop a style of play. Then you obviously question his competence in certain aspects. I agree with the positives as well. He has built a pretty good squad, we have no Fellaini type of players left. Nothing against Fellaini, but he shouldn't have played for United. My biggest problem with Ole is his coaching, my biggest compliment is that he has brought happiness and built a good squad for the future.
agreed! Thanks to the mods for getting rid of it!
Sound and very reasonable post.
I think that's a reasonable summation of where many of us stand. Plenty of goodwill towards him still and an acknowledgement of all the progress that has been made but a healthy unease with the more obvious flaws in our set up.
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