Klopp is special, sure. But even he took a while before he won the league so demanding Ole to do more than he has so far is not reasonable.
Pep inherited a squad that had had pretty much won titles before.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Pep inherited a squad that had had pretty much won titles before.
Well pep spent 200 million in his first season and won nothing and to improve further he spent another 200 plus million on new players in 17-18 season and won the title. So technically pep was dependent on money to be successful. Heck he spent another 100 plus million on defenders this season too.
And also pep and klopp are special managers, not just better than Ole but also better than many other managers so if it can take time for them to build something special, why so much impatience with Ole.
Ole inherited a team that won the Europa League. We could literally do this twist of faiths forever.
The point still remains time waits for no-one. Jose currently manages Tottenham because it’s clearly obvious now he can nolonger do what Pep and Klopp can. But for some reason we still believe there’s money in an empty envelope.
Well it wasn’t £200m was it now... But he didn't get sacked in his first season after making top 4. For Pep do you think that fair? He then got rid of his full backs and replaced them. Do you think that fair? Bare in mind across the road we was breaking transfer fees still finishing behind them.
You cannot say he relies on money and then say he’s special
. But I get your point special managers win league titles. Well we all know that just look at the Prem History. Theirs odd anomalies, so I take it that’s what we are praying for. A miracle.Pep asked for Walker, Mendy, Danilo, Bravo, Ederson, Stones for his first league title with City. Klopp asked for Fabinho, Allison, Robertson, VVD, Matip, Klavan, Karius for his first trophy with Liverpool. Both managers needed to change the whole defense by signing lot of defensive players before they can start winning or challenging the league.
Anyone should be able to see the clear picture based on this season. The Everton game is a good prime recent example of the potential of the team, very good going attack, how the manager is willing to and can play open, play good attacking football and which area we need improvement for next season. If it’s not enough to show you that he deserves the backing and we could be so much better if we have minimum a top centre back and a top keeper next season then there is nothing I can help you.
Not sure what you mean. Has be made mistakes? Definitely, quite a few of them actually. Has he "lost the plot"? Far from it actually. He is the reason why we look forward to games - a far cry from the dark days of LVG and Mourinho.
He is still learning on the job which isn't such a bad thing. Manager who had already "learned" it came here with their ideas and failed to deliver. In Mourinho's case, he left us much worse that how he found us. Given our history of only being successful with managers who spent a prodigious amount of time with the club, I am willing to give him time over the new flavor of the month manager.
Ultimately, his fate will be determined by results at the end of the season. If he doesn't see his blind-spots around in-game tactics and brings someone in his team who can do it better than him then he will suffer the same fate as LVG and Mourinho. Although, he will leave us in a much better position that those two.
There are only 6 left. One is ageing, one is turning into deadwood now and at least the keeper is becoming a debate that he needs to be replaced.
Pep won a title with no LB but we need a complete team to just start competing.
Klopp won a Champions League with arguably the best CB in the world. But his partner was Matip and Gomez not Vidic. A LB from Hull City and a RB from the youth team who use to play CM. But we can’t defend because we haven’t got Upamacano and Donnnrumma.
Like why is this hard to grasp. Yes you need quality players but there has to be a lot of responsibility on the coach to make the most of the tools they have.
Moyes - not a top level manager. West Ham is his level.
LVG- the game passed him by. Without LVG there is no Pep but this was also the same guy that had Barca in the bottom half of the table and told Riquelme he can’t use him.
Jose- please tell me when he’s ever played good football and lasted longer than 3 years. He did what he said on the tin. Unfortunately he didn’t have a Covid season. He might have won us a league. However I’d still have wanted him gone. He’s BORING and always has been.
Danilo and Mendy were his left back when he won the league title. He didn’t even challenge or even compete before he signed those two despite of signing new keeper, new centre back and already had proven top centre back Kompany.
Liverpool also couldn’t defend before they won CL because they hadn’t got Allison & Fabinho.
Both of those managers also needed to change the whole defense by signing lot of defensive players. Remember, Klopp was criticised before on his defensive coaching skill and people said VVD, Allison & Fabinho wouldn’t make difference because he can’t coach his defense. Same with Pep.
Winning the Europa League is far far from winning the Premier League.
I don’t know what team you was watching but Fabian Delph was Left back.Danilo and Mendy were his left back when he won the league title. He didn’t even challenge or even compete before he signed those two.
What’s wrong with that? They also couldn’t defend because they hadn’t got Allison & Fabinho.
Both of those managers also needed to change the whole defense by signing lot of defensive players. Remember, Klopp was criticised before on his defensive coaching skill and people said VVD, Allison & Fabinho wouldn’t make difference because he can’t coach his defense. Same with Pep. Look at now
They couldn’t defend because they had Lovern and Matip. All they did was get a world class CB. Fabinho needed to settle in it started off with Henderson, Gini, Ox and Milner. He got in eventually but just take a look at our team. Our team isn’t that bad to not be competing and winning medals. Yes we could do with a world class CB but maybe we should be going back to the drawing board and wondering why our £80m CB and £50m RB still means we can’t defend. Add to that our LB is arguably player of the season.
They did get questioned I agree but there style hasn’t changed. Which is another big problem I have. We don’t have a style so therefore I don’t know what players we need. If we replace DDG do we get a keeper with feet. To okay out from the back you would think so but we’d probably buy Donnrumma. We need a fast dominating CB but I’ve never seen evidence that this benefits Harry Maguire. Stones isn’t that player. Evans isn’t that players and he played well with them.
Yes but we couldn’t even do that. You knew what my point was.
Non of that mattered. Otherwise Rafa Benetiz would have won the league and Champions league with Real Madrid if they never sacked him.
Yeah I don’t believe in that stuff. I’m just using it as and example. Do the same for City’s team that won their first title and tell me how many of them won the premier league before.There are only 6 left. One is ageing, one is turning into deadwood now and at least the keeper is becoming a debate that he needs to be replaced.
We played a sevilla side that was harder than anything Jose faced in his run to the final. You're just making weird comparisons here.
Lets give credit to Ole for us being where we are now. He has to be given the credit when we win. He also has to take the responsibility when we lose due to bad game management and bad planning. The first goal is on one person and one person only. DeGea. But when we defending a goal and in the last minute of the game, are you going to send on Greenwood or Matic? I know I am being harsh but Axel is one of the worst headers in our side along with AWB and Lindelof. He has had a mare of games recently. Has been booked 6 times in his last 12 games. You need a cool head and Matic was the only option. You may as well send Brandon instead of Axel.
Oh please. Stop dragging this on. It was a stupid point and I jumped on it. It doesn’t matter what went on before otherwise Moyes wouldn’t have had us out of a Champions league top 4. So I don’t care how easy or hard both runs was. Good managers get teams over the line.
The original point was Pep took over winners. But yet he had to spend £400m. Like non of the points add up and they aren’t intended to. Just excuses.
No don’t get me wrong. He does deserve credit and done are the days where I’ll just try and crucify Ole. But I just don’t like when people tell lies about what is actually happening.
Goes to show you, he won the Europa league with a back four of Smalling Blind Darmian and Valencia. Like to see Ole do that.There are only 6 left. One is ageing, one is turning into deadwood now and at least the keeper is becoming a debate that he needs to be replaced.
Valencia was very good right back in 2016/2017 & 2017/2018. He even was our player of the year in 16/17. Smalling was still very good at that time in his best year especially after his performance under LVG while Blind was the semi finalist of CL centre back with Ajax. These three were good players mate. You look at Jose’s route to win that EL & Ole’s route to EL last season, Sevilla was miles better than that Ajax and the other teams. Sevilla beats Inter Milan in final and went to extra time 1-1 against Bayern Munich
Oh come,at least admit the truth. Man knows how to set up a team to defend, Ole with a back four of Valencia Blind Smalling and Dallot would be a shipwreck, and you know it.
I know it sounds silly but I think scoring the most goals doesnt necesarily means you are the most espectacular. You mentioned yourself Leeds and theyre not between the top 5 scorers. I know it goes hand to hand but I hope Im making myself clear. Again, like I said in many other posts, Im not saying we are a boring team Im just saying I dont consider us as espectacular. Yes entertaining games, but I don't think in the future well look back to this season and say "hey remember the days under Ole? wow that was some espectacular football". We are ok, nothing special IMO.
There's a difference between entertaining and spectacular. Football is entertaining, almost every match if you like it. But spectacular is something special, no one in their right mind would ask for spectacular every single time, its imposible.
Hopefully it will, if we hit another two-three players like Bruno (hard but possible) I think we could make it, even if not having a worldclass manager. Unfortunately players like Bruno dont come often.
15 of those goals were scored against two teams one of those playing with a man less for the whole match. In other matches we have scraped wins.
We are not the most entertaining team to watch, up until a couple of matches ago we were counter attack fc, it's only against Leeds and Everton that we played entertaining football, and Southampton where we had the advantage of an extra player for the whole match.
Liverpool under Klopp
2015/16 ( joined October 2015)
Won no trophy finished 8th in the league.
2016/17
Won no trophy finished 4th in the league
2017/18
Won no trophy finished 4th in the league.
His transfer windows January 2016 to September 2018 he with the help of Michael Edwards signed.
Matip, Mane, Wijnaldum, Salah, Robertson, Van Dijk, Keita, Fabinho, Alisson among others. The end result of replacing dead wood with good quality players was a first trophy won in 7 years and the following year a first league title for 30 years.
2015/16 ( joined October 2015)
Won no trophy finished 8th in the league.
2016/17
Won no trophy finished 4th in the league
2017/18
Won no trophy finished 4th in the league.
His transfer windows January 2016 to September 2018 he with the help of Michael Edwards signed.
Matip, Mane, Wijnaldum, Salah, Robertson, Van Dijk, Keita, Fabinho, Alisson among others. The end result of replacing dead wood with good quality players was a first trophy won in 7 years and the following year a first league title for 30 years.
No one knows what the future ia but if we go on to win major trophies next season then definitely people will look back at this time and say we could see good football and the progress. Again it also could mean nothing and we are back to square one. But right now I do think we play good football.
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Came across this stats and honestly this is encouraging. Like I said with the similar stats were we managed by poch or tuchel many would have just praised the manager.
We have been entertaining in more than just a handful of games. Newcastle, Everton, West Ham away. Coming from behind to beat Southampton and Sheffield United. We took Leipzeig, Leeds, Southampton and Liverpool apart at home. Beat PSG on their own pitch and deserved to. Yes, there have been some wins where we have had to dig deep against teams who just parked the bus against us, but the table doesn't lie. We fully deserve second at the moment, and we are getting closer to where we want to be. The deficiencies in our team are obvious, but easy to rectify. We are not talking about a major squad overhaul now, just 1 or 2 additions and we will be sound. And there is so much talent in the academy at the moment, You can see 4 or 5 of them breaking through to the first team in the next 2/3 years.
feck me the quantity of big chances missed is incredible, lets get ourselves a proper killer striker.
I look at all them names and non of them on paper look exceptional but yet we are upset and the manager didn’t get backed because we didn’t get Sancho.
He signed Mendy & Danilo in 2017, that was the season when he won the league. If Delph was enough to solve the issue, why did Pep spend big money on Mendy and others then? Why didn’t Pep win or challenge the league in 2016/2017 when Delph was around? Even with Kompany in his defense, why did he still need 290m investment on just defense before he won his first league title? And yet he still didn’t stop spend money on his defense after the 290m investment.
So if you want to go back to the drawing board on wondering about our 130m investment on those two then go answer those questions above, even Klopp also needed to invest 200m on defense first before finally winning trophy.
So Klopp couldn’t defend because he didn’t have top top CB and top top keeper and that’s why his defensive coaching was also questioned before, the similar thing happened to Pep. The Klopp & Pep cases are just weakening your argument on Ole here mate.
It’s your problem that you can’t see our style and the direction of where the manager is going. After watching us this season, even our last game against Everton and also very my first and second posts of our conversation, if you still don’t understand and can’t see it then that’s your problem that I can’t solve any longer.
So we need to improve our defence and also get a killer striker, but yet City are top with Gabriel Jesus.
The warning signs are so obvious but we keep going back to transfers to fix our problems. It will never be fixed under this structure.
he needs to sign Bamford imo - we have preyed upon smaller clubs in the past and picking up their best players - think Yorke at Villa, Cole at Newcastle - we have problems up top. Cavani is short term. Bamford’s not perfect but we could get him for under 50m easily and he’d have even more supply than he has at Leeds (something I feel we probably have to give them credit for). I don’t expect this to be a popular opinion but I believe it id right.
It’s true he knows how to set up the defense better than Klopp, Pep, Ole and lot of managers out there even with a draw back to become boring football.
But let’s not discredit those players. Valencia was very good right back in 16/17 and 17/18 and the fact he won the player of the season in one of them sums it up. Smalling was playing in his best years won our player of the season in 15/16 which 2016 was the year when Jose took in charged. And lot of people in here rated Blind better than Lindelof.
So how will it be fixed? By sacking manager.
I still think we need to improve on Ole, but that stat is clear as feck. How are we missing so many chances? Its awful.
United needs more additions. Woodward, Judge wasted the summer window on Sancho whom they were never going to get and then let January go without signing anyone.
Since Ole arrived in December 2018 a lot more players have been let go than brought in.
Mendy got a knee injury and was out for the season. Don’t believe me there’s an Amazon prime documentary.
My point is our defence is better than Klopp’s and Pep’s. There’s literally no Lovern, no Mangela, no Matip, no Sagna, no Clichy, no Karius, no Bravo, no Morano. You are over stressing what they brought in and what we had. I told you Pep won a league with no left back and you overlooked it. Klopp won a championship league and league with no striker. Everything isn’t going to be perfect but you have to a plan. Trying to play out from the back with a keeper and RB with no feet and wanting to play a high line after buying a slouch CB whilst selling your fasted CB, to me shows that the plan isn’t solid. Players can fail that’s a given.. but Pep and Klopp’s players all have the same characteristics. Name me a Pep signing who didn’t have good technical ability (good with their feet). They all know what they require to play how they need to play. We don’t sign for style.
We are but it’s not a problem if we stop leaking goals. We don’t lack fire power.. Rashford, Bruno, Martial, Cavani and Greenwood will always score goals. We aren’t going to sign a lethal striker and score more goals. You’ll find those around him will just score less.
It’s the RVN -Saha scenario. We; me included all love RVN he’s a goat. But I think we can all accept what top level football had become. Wide forward is still the successful play. We need a good RW not a striker.
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