Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Owners aren’t going anywhere, all they care about is top 4, but it’s not a reason to persist with a manager who isn’t good enough. Two separate issues that combined ensure we are screwed for a while yet.
We need a manager that has the drive and ability to succeed in spite of them, that’s not Ole.
Does anyone have this? Or could someone summarize it?
I can accept this point but unfortunately none of us are on the board and can do anything about this.
I do agree that if a manager succeeds here, it will be despite the ownership and board.
In every draw we had this season, Rashford bottled at least 1-2 100% chances. He is letting Ole down massively. Can’t remember a single game this season that was decided by him in a positive way.
We had a lot of nothing games under SAF and we won by having a world class striker.
I reckon at least 7 of our draws in the league this season would have been wins if we had someone like Rooney, RVP, RVN etc.
A team can go so far without a great striker.
Cavani is good, but he is old.
Martial is championship level this season.
Rashford has been massively disappointing.
I reckon the only option for Ole at this point is trying to play Greenwood centrally.
We suffered massively for not going after Sancho or Haaland.
We had a lot of nothing games under SAF and we won by having a world class striker.
I reckon at least 7 of our draws in the league this season would have been wins if we had someone like Rooney, RVP, RVN etc.
A team can go so far without a great striker.
Cavani is good, but he is old.
Martial is championship level this season.
Rashford has been massively disappointing.
I reckon the only option for Ole at this point is trying to play Greenwood centrally.
We suffered massively for not going after Sancho or Haaland.
You mean the article, or the answer to the question?
The article.
Stop the page from loading before the paywall part sets in
I think the issue is clear and it has been for almost a year now.
He's a nice guy, probably a good man manager to get behind too with a positive outlook on how he wants us to play football. But he needs an all-star team because he does not coach to the required level or instil a pattern of play that's familiar to the viewers or evidently to the players. It's been coined by so many different journalists, analysts, pundits in their own respectable terms.
I think it was Andy Cole who suggested we look like we play "free style football", Neville has said many times how our attack looks disjointed, many others call us "hot and cold", etc.
The Totally Football Show had an interesting line that I think goes as far back as last season, a very abstract parallel. I think it was Duncan Alexander who said a bunch of trained squirrels will get more nuts in a park than a bunch of non-trained ones. But at the end of the day, they're squirrels so they'll find some nuts - and Ole just has some very good squirrels
It was quite abstract but I saw his point, that good players will get you points here and there and you can get a run out from default of getting through some games. Like the Cavani performance vs Southampton, the Pogba performance vs I think Sheffield United? The scrape against West Brom thanks to Bruno, there are so many examples.
Relying on players to work out attacks on their own through a neat exchange here and there or a moment of brilliance has its drawbacks - one obvious one being its not sustainable. It will work for a period where things pull off for them, they get confident, in the groove and can get a mini-run. But then it will always fizzle out and they need to find their spark again on their own. And that boom-bust cycle is reflective of his entire tenure here.
He's a nice guy, probably a good man manager to get behind too with a positive outlook on how he wants us to play football. But he needs an all-star team because he does not coach to the required level or instil a pattern of play that's familiar to the viewers or evidently to the players. It's been coined by so many different journalists, analysts, pundits in their own respectable terms.
I think it was Andy Cole who suggested we look like we play "free style football", Neville has said many times how our attack looks disjointed, many others call us "hot and cold", etc.
The Totally Football Show had an interesting line that I think goes as far back as last season, a very abstract parallel. I think it was Duncan Alexander who said a bunch of trained squirrels will get more nuts in a park than a bunch of non-trained ones. But at the end of the day, they're squirrels so they'll find some nuts - and Ole just has some very good squirrels
It was quite abstract but I saw his point, that good players will get you points here and there and you can get a run out from default of getting through some games. Like the Cavani performance vs Southampton, the Pogba performance vs I think Sheffield United? The scrape against West Brom thanks to Bruno, there are so many examples.Relying on players to work out attacks on their own through a neat exchange here and there or a moment of brilliance has its drawbacks - one obvious one being its not sustainable. It will work for a period where things pull off for them, they get confident, in the groove and can get a mini-run. But then it will always fizzle out and they need to find their spark again on their own. And that boom-bust cycle is reflective of his entire tenure here.
Do you think a new manager would?
How do i do that?
Where the refresh button is on the page, when it's loading it should be an 'X' click that before the paywall part comes up
Every season is the same.
A run of good form followed by a longer run of terrible form that the management team fails to turn around and the season closing out in a whimper.
It's progress apparently though.
A run of good form followed by a longer run of terrible form that the management team fails to turn around and the season closing out in a whimper.
It's progress apparently though.
This a hundred percent. We are relying on individual brilliance to bail us out.I think the issue is clear and it has been for almost a year now.
He's a nice guy, probably a good man manager to get behind too with a positive outlook on how he wants us to play football. But he needs an all-star team because he does not coach to the required level or instil a pattern of play that's familiar to the viewers or evidently to the players. It's been coined by so many different journalists, analysts, pundits in their own respectable terms.
I think it was Andy Cole who suggested we look like we play "free style football", Neville has said many times how our attack looks disjointed, many others call us "hot and cold", etc.
The Totally Football Show had an interesting line that I think goes as far back as last season, a very abstract parallel. I think it was Duncan Alexander who said a bunch of trained squirrels will get more nuts in a park than a bunch of non-trained ones. But at the end of the day, they're squirrels so they'll find some nuts - and Ole just has some very good squirrels
Relying on players to work out attacks on their own through a neat exchange here and there or a moment of brilliance has its drawbacks - one obvious one being its not sustainable. It will work for a period where things pull off for them, they get confident, in the groove and can get a mini-run. But then it will always fizzle out and they need to find their spark again on their own. And that boom-bust cycle is reflective of his entire tenure here.
Ok i will try.
Ha ha it worked. Thanks.
Basically saying we have no clear direction or philosophy. Sometimes we press high. Sometimes we look to counter.
I have never known this trick until now, thanks.
I think your all correct.
I think Ole's brief is to secure a top four finish, and only then would the owners sanction a spend on new players. Even then I think Ole will be told to sell three or four players, especially CB's, before he can bring new blood in, and I would think the owners will be hoping that a number of our academy prospects, plus Diallo and Pellistri, will make the first team squad over the next year or two, so paying out on 'big' players will be nullified.
Realistically, we haven't the squad to make a concerted effort at winning the Prem, but we are in a tussle for second, and still in with a shot at two cups.
Ole has done well to get the club where we are, but we still need a bit of investment to take the next step, which, I believe, the owners are unwilling to do to the degree that we need, we can hope that Diallo, Pellistri, Mejbri, Garner, Laird et al, all come good.
Glad someone asked.
No problem guys, enjoy!
But that's more a reflection of the variety in his approaches and is a positive.
I'd argue the problem is we only look good when we counter cuz that relies on individual quality and we have that in Bruno and Rashford. When it comes to actual pressing we are not good enough and attacking a packed defense we are not good.
That's quite a fall.
Top of the league on 12 January - we will be 20 points behind City by this time next week.
it is. But to me, the only truly bad results in there are the sheffield west brom and palace ones.
Both Arsenal and Liverpool felt like they were there for the taking and we really should be beating Everton at OT.
Even leaving that all to one side, Sheffield, West Brom and Palace is still seven points dropped, which would have seen us 14 clear of Chelsea, and 15 clear of Liverpool. Chelsea could be a point behind us next Monday!
It is really a huge turnaround.
“Only 1 defeat, and 5 clean sheets. Absolutely fantastic that”
You, Sir, are a genius. Take a bow.
No problem mate, I can't take credit, I read about it on Reddit
OGS is clueless when facing a team sitting deep...we try to slowly do the same things over and over again that do not work...picking 2 DM´s when facing this playing method will not do...why the heck does he not start with 2 strikers against a team like that...Palace marked Fernandez out the game and Rashford and Greenwood were awful...Cavani did not get any service and when Luke Shaw is your most potent attacking force you know there is something seriously wrong...we are slow, lacking movement from players and it´s just like watching a rerun...same fecking sideways and backwards passing and never being able to break the lines. I like OGS the person and hoped he would lead us to better times but compare him to Ancelotti and Tuchel and see the difference they make to a team instantly...clear structure and playing style ....OGS is just not good enough..sadly
I am just fed up at this stage. I am having a nervous breakdown with us. The last eight or nine years, post ferguson, have just been shite. When are we going to play good attacking football. I will probably be dead by the time we win the PL again.
Ole’s issues with substitutions are becoming borderline ridiculous at this point and we still look clueless in an attacking sense - like a bunch of individuals deciding how to play off the cuff - but they aren't even the main concern for me.
My fundamental problem with Ole is the complete lack of identity:
- What is his style of play?
- What is his basic tactical approach?
- What is he asking the players to do in each game?
- What improvements to our obvious issues on the pitch is he trying to make?
It varies so much from game to game that you start to question if he has an underlying philosophy. I'm not debating the relative effectiveness of his style (that's a separate issue), I'm asking whether there even is one at all?
If you look at different managers around the league, their style of play or what they want from the team is pretty clear. And a lot of them have had similar (or less) time than Ole to implement these demands. As a comparison this is the amount of time different managers have been in charge of their respective clubs where I feel a clear style has been established (regardless of the effectiveness of that style):
Ole (26 months)
Rodgers (24 months)
Moyes (14 months)
Tuchel (1 month)
Ancelotti (14 months)
Smith (28 months)
Bielsa (32 months)
Hasenhüttl (26 months)
Potter (22 months)
I didn't include Arteta, Nuno, Hodgson (despite doing a great job), Dyche (similar to Hodgson), Bruce, Parker, Allardyce or Wilder because their styles are fundamentally defensive and reserved for teams in the bottom half of the league. I similarly haven't included Jose for this reason and because, well, feck Jose; he has a clear style, it's just clearly shite. Managers like Bielsa, Hasenhüttl, Potter etc. are clearly trying to implement a style typically reserved for teams in the top half of the league, they just don't have the player quality to do it.
I also didn't include Klopp (64 months) or Pep (55 months) due to the amount of time they've been in charge of Liverpool and City. But if you compare where they were at the same juncture Ole is you get this:
Klopp - December 2017 - Liverpool finished 4th and got to the Champions League final (17/18). They won the Champions League the next season and finished with 97 points in the league (18/19). The style of play was clear and was proven to be extremely effective.
Guardiola - August 2018 - City finished 1st with 100 points and scored over a 100 goals (17/18). They won the league the next season with 98 points and scored 95 goals (18/19). The style of play was clear and proven to be extremely effective.
I think it's a fair defence of Ole to say we don't have the squad to genuinely compete for the title or to seriously challenge amongst Europe's elite. But surely he's had enough time to make a squad with as much talent as ours play in a clear and distinct manner? It doesn't even have to be an attractive style of football, it just has to be a style of some sorts.
My fundamental problem with Ole is the complete lack of identity:
- What is his style of play?
- What is his basic tactical approach?
- What is he asking the players to do in each game?
- What improvements to our obvious issues on the pitch is he trying to make?
It varies so much from game to game that you start to question if he has an underlying philosophy. I'm not debating the relative effectiveness of his style (that's a separate issue), I'm asking whether there even is one at all?
If you look at different managers around the league, their style of play or what they want from the team is pretty clear. And a lot of them have had similar (or less) time than Ole to implement these demands. As a comparison this is the amount of time different managers have been in charge of their respective clubs where I feel a clear style has been established (regardless of the effectiveness of that style):
Ole (26 months)
Rodgers (24 months)
Moyes (14 months)
Tuchel (1 month)
Ancelotti (14 months)
Smith (28 months)
Bielsa (32 months)
Hasenhüttl (26 months)
Potter (22 months)
I didn't include Arteta, Nuno, Hodgson (despite doing a great job), Dyche (similar to Hodgson), Bruce, Parker, Allardyce or Wilder because their styles are fundamentally defensive and reserved for teams in the bottom half of the league. I similarly haven't included Jose for this reason and because, well, feck Jose; he has a clear style, it's just clearly shite. Managers like Bielsa, Hasenhüttl, Potter etc. are clearly trying to implement a style typically reserved for teams in the top half of the league, they just don't have the player quality to do it.
I also didn't include Klopp (64 months) or Pep (55 months) due to the amount of time they've been in charge of Liverpool and City. But if you compare where they were at the same juncture Ole is you get this:
Klopp - December 2017 - Liverpool finished 4th and got to the Champions League final (17/18). They won the Champions League the next season and finished with 97 points in the league (18/19). The style of play was clear and was proven to be extremely effective.
Guardiola - August 2018 - City finished 1st with 100 points and scored over a 100 goals (17/18). They won the league the next season with 98 points and scored 95 goals (18/19). The style of play was clear and proven to be extremely effective.
I think it's a fair defence of Ole to say we don't have the squad to genuinely compete for the title or to seriously challenge amongst Europe's elite. But surely he's had enough time to make a squad with as much talent as ours play in a clear and distinct manner? It doesn't even have to be an attractive style of football, it just has to be a style of some sorts.
I never thought about that.
You are a genius my man.Does anyone actually pay them money to read articles? Because I sure as hell will feel like I wasted my money by doing this.
yeah thats what i meant, for me we werent going to compete for the title in the long run despite being top but we should almost have second wrapped up by now. On balance of play we could have beaten arsenal and liverpool and should have beaten everton but we chucked it away. But draws away at liverpool and arsenal arent bad results all considered.
But no excuses over the other results. It would have been nice to have gone into the derby with a chance to cut city's lead to 4 points and perhaps drag the title race on. But now its a dead rubber, titles over with 10 games remaining. Reckon city will get the champs league title this season too as pep can rest players with the title secured and theres no one apart from Bayern who can give them a game
I don't think anyone is saying sack him right now. Of course he should be given until the end of the season and take things from there. What's worrying a lot of people (myself included) is that we'll scrape top 4
High expectations for failing to beat a patched up Crystal Palace side or SU at home or WBA or god forbid at least 1 win against the top 6? Those are the minimum expectations and we are still failing.
What would we be sacking him for? Not being Pep basically.
Ole doesn't have the team nor tools to take us higher than where we are. If we had the best team in the land I could understand the frustration but we don't. It's not even close. City have 5 or 6 bench players who'd start for us most games.
I think it just boils down the fact that our fanbase simply can't come to terms with us not being the best team around anymore. Got a news flash for you chaps. It's not Ole's fault we aren't the best team in the land anymore. Were you all in a coma during the 2013 to 2018 seasons? This decline goes way beyond Ole.
Ole doesn't have the team nor tools to take us higher than where we are. If we had the best team in the land I could understand the frustration but we don't. It's not even close. City have 5 or 6 bench players who'd start for us most games.
I think it just boils down the fact that our fanbase simply can't come to terms with us not being the best team around anymore. Got a news flash for you chaps. It's not Ole's fault we aren't the best team in the land anymore. Were you all in a coma during the 2013 to 2018 seasons? This decline goes way beyond Ole.
I should've caveated that was under Kidd, McLaren, Rene, Quieroz etc but it's true, as you yourself say. SAF was obviously unique in many ways, not least how he had such influence on so many aspects of the club.
There is a reason why rival fans all want us to keep him.
Maguire, AWB, Rashford and Bruno are 4 out 5 PL players who have played most minutes in 2020-2021 season in all competitions.
1. Maguire - 3495 mins
2. AWB - 3217 mins
3. Tielemans - 3178 mins
4. Rashford - 3120 mins
5. Bruno - 3119 mins.
Our players are knackered, and it is showing. Lack of rotation is not sustainable, so do not be surprised if we continue to play shite.
1. Maguire - 3495 mins
2. AWB - 3217 mins
3. Tielemans - 3178 mins
4. Rashford - 3120 mins
5. Bruno - 3119 mins.
Our players are knackered, and it is showing. Lack of rotation is not sustainable, so do not be surprised if we continue to play shite.
God forbid fans of a big club wanting to win the league. Let's wait till Pep leaves and City players are all retired before hoping for that.
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