Which teams are good to watch out of interest in the Prem?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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I never said his achievement is similar to that of reaching qf in CL. My point was whenever Ole passes a hurdle the goal posts keeps on changing to criticize Ole. I thought Thursday night was a professional performance, wish we did that against Leipzig away (naive that day tactically). The first thing couple of posters werw moaning was about Ole not making subs and how we should score more but I don't see such claims put for tuchel and chelsea when they win 1-0. Again no way comparing athletico and Milan but it is not like Milan are some championship side or some average side. They are decent and they probably would have knocked the likes of arsenal out.
I don't care if people don't rate Ole, I have my issues with Ole's management too but criticizing someone for the sake of it just shows one's pettiness, which some posters are culprit of. You could identify them by their name and the moment you see their post you know it will be all moaning and whining.
He would have to reach a CL final this season too.
I would even ask which team are good to watch in general right now? Games are coming thick and fast and one could see every team is grinding out results. Real madrid, juve, barca, even psg, leipzig, Inter, AC all are going game by game and none of them are consistently playing pretty football this season. I saw somewhere this was our 30th game since December 1st (or maybe something like that) week and we have literally played 3 games every week since then. How do people expect us to just run over opponents is beyond me?
If I were Ole I'll focus on purchasing players with high technical quality, high football intelligence. This is the biggest flaw of the team at the moment, it the biggest reason we struggle to play with any rhythm or fluidity. Guys like James, Fred, Mctominay have other strengths but are average to poor technically at this level, so which ever position he's going to add to this team come this summer, being technically good and being intelligent in decision making needs to be a strong quality.
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That’s a long ass ten plus years of negativity.
Sorry, and like I said, quite sad or petty of me to search but I was curious and it just made me laugh.
This is quite sad of me but it did make me laugh, the first 3 I thought of were @Mainoldo @Schmeichel's Cartwheel and incouldnt remember the last one, unrelated pseudo or unofficial devil or something like that so just searched @UnofficialDevil to see what posts he had made and if it was him or not I was thinking of, and there’s people from 2010 calling him out for being negative , then again in 2012
That’s a long ass ten plus years of negativity.Sorry, and like I said, quite sad or petty of me to search but I was curious and it just made me laugh.
If he wins a trophy or hopefully 2 and gets second place then there will be no arguments he doesn't deserve next year. A poster above said we need a defender and attacker and for the board to back him. I'd argue our biggest need is a top class CM. If we start the season with Mcfred as our most played cm partnership we aren't competting for the big trophies. I don't think Ole is good enough. He has issues with subs, squad rotation, tactics and talent recognition. I'd love to proven wrong and for him to win the trophies we want but keeping this season aside, we need a big summer. Keep Pogba, sign a midfielder and one other signing and ole should have no excuses when it comes to his team.
Im still all for Declan Rice. Rice and Sancho should be enough.
I honestly haven't seen enough of him to have a solid opinion. As someone who was wrong about Jack Rodwell and considering how we overpaid for awb and Maguire I'd rather we buy non English players if possible. Ndidi is my number one option.
Yeah very funny. The only other time I was negative was when Moyes was manager. And yes it is sad to have to search 10 years of posts.[
This is quite sad of me but it did make me laugh, the first 3 I thought of were @Mainoldo @Schmeichel's Cartwheel and incouldnt remember the last one, unrelated pseudo or unofficial devil or something like that so just searched @UnofficialDevil to see what posts he had made and if it was him or not I was thinking of, and there’s people from 2010 calling him out for being negative , then again in 2012
Sorry, and like I said, quite sad or petty of me to search but I was curious and it just made me laugh.
That's not the point. The point is lot of players don't start hitting their full potential before 25. Read what I wrote. Not every players develop in early phase like Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi.
You are still ignoring it that both Klopp & Ole didn't inherit top/world class players in their prime like Pep and Conte had at City & Chelsea thus both Klopp and Ole needed much more time to build and develop the squad to win title. Stones is an example of how player needs time to develop and Pep was only able to win the title previously not because Stones but because he had players like Kompany, Aguero, KDB, Silva and Fernandinho, you are also still ignoring that he had those players together at their prime.
All perspective isn’t it. We will never know. What I do know is to win those trophies is you need a proper squad, either you already have those bunch of top/world class players or you need to build and develop the squad which takes time.
I just typed your username in mate and there they were on first page, I didn’t go through 10 years of posts
I didnt realise moyes was our manager in 2010
Really.Well mate. The only time I've been negative was with Moyes and now with Ole because I don't think ether of them are good enough. So you found a post from 2010 about something I didn't agree with. Still think that's sad. Its probably you that's miserable.I just typed your username in mate and there they were on first page, I didn’t go through 10 years of posts
I didnt realise moyes was our manager in 2010
I don’t want to make a fuss out of it, I’m sorry if I upset you. I just thought you was a poster I found was overly negative, searched the words unofficial and devil to see as I might have got it wrong and the very first page was posters moaning about you being negative, one in 2010 and the other in 2012. That is all
I understand but we have to see what we require. Ndidi doesn’t have the passing capability we require. AWB wasn’t well scouted from an attacking sense. So wouldn’t surprise me if we get a CDM who can’t pass.
Thats ok, thanks for saying sorry, no worries. I probably do come across as negative because I'm not happy with Ole as our manager and most of my posts are about that. I made the same mistake of posting too much when Moyes was manager and got the Anti Scottish tag..
Well we don’t have any players of that level so basically you are hoping on a miracle? I can see why we aren’t going nowhere fast. The club probably think like you. We’ll wait for Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi to develop out of Rashford, Martial and Scotty.
Mate Conte had Hazard. Everyone else was just good players. Stop bringing confirmation bias to this argument.
Again Pep hasn’t been to one Champions League final with his superior squad, Klopp’s team that made his first final for Pool was standard to say the least. So all perspective.
We will win the league and when we do everything you believe in now will have nothing to do with why we win it.
Klopp finished on 75 points and 4th in his 3rd season. Lying to prove a point isn't really helping the debate here.
He also got knocked out early in the league cup and fa Cup so perhaps the comparison is fair.
Someone can get their facts wrong without them actually lying. Unless you know the poster was deliberately trying to deceive, you may want to back away from calling people liars.
I disagree with most of the post you were replying to as well but Klopp finished 4th with 75 points while we’re on track to finish 2nd with 75 points.
He then went on to win the Champions League the next season while finishing 2nd in the league with 97 points. And then went on to win the league the season after that with 99 points.
I wish people would stop using Klopp and Liverpool’s progress as a comparative. It’ll only end in disappointment.
WTF are you on about?
Hazard, Costa, Matic, Azpi, Cahill, Courtois, Willian and etc. These are players who were still in their prime that not too long ago won the PL before Conte came in. Neither Klopp & Ole had the same bunch level of players when they came in, players that were still in their prime.
Isn't it the main reason why Pep was heavily criticised because his poor delivery in UCL despite of the squad and money he had and was given.
You haven't counter the point at all so the point still stands that you need a proper squad to win the title, if you don't have the proper squad then you need to rebuild the squad again by developing and improving the current top talent players which what we are doing now and we have shown progress in this, and if there are areas that we don't have the right players to develop then we need to buy in the market which the board failed to deliver last summer and it's not Ole's fault.
The fact that you think two additional players should be enough in your other post/conversation with Desert Eagle shows that we are currently on the right track to build a proper team that can challenge or win the title, squad is well rebuilt & well developed, players are showing improvement to reach their full potential.
I was quietly never convinced by Ole at the start of his tenure and still feel the same way unfortunately, however, this team is the best we have seen post fergie imo.
I hope Ole can be here for a long time and improve as a manager. It's so satisfying to see a manager who genuinely cares about the club and just gets it. I am fully behind him as things stand.
I hope Ole can be here for a long time and improve as a manager. It's so satisfying to see a manager who genuinely cares about the club and just gets it. I am fully behind him as things stand.
That was Klopp's 2nd full season in charge. It's true that Liverpool finished 4th with 75 points that season but didn't mention that they also played in the Champions League final which OGS won't acheive at the end of his 2nd full season in charge of United.
The point of using Klopp is not about the comparative of their progress to ours. But instead, it is used to show people that you need to have proper squad to win those trophies, if you don't have the proper squad then you need to rebuild the squad. It will take time and sacrifices/cost.
Those time should be used to develop & improve the young talented players which what we are doing. And sign players for area that we don't have top talent players to develop which the board fail to deliver last summer. Unlike us, Liverpool board delivered what the squad needed in those period when they were still in transition to build the team before they won their first trophy. The sacrifices/cost will be similar to what happened to Klopp at Liverpool that they won nothing in those transition years.
Klopp needed 4. 5 to win itStones just fits in well with this new system. It’s not 5 years of development waiting for this very season for him to come good. You could have probably got him for £25m in the summer if anyone wanted to spend the money.
But meanwhile whilst he was ‘developing’
Anyway nice attempt you tried hard to back your corner of needing time. But it’s quite simple good managers know how to build teams whilst also getting results fast. There’s numerous recent examples but feel free to let me know what manager had needed 5 years to get a team in a position to be title contenders.
You are ignoring the fact that Liverpool board delivered the players that Klopp needed to upgrade his XI every window before they won their first trophy because that also plays important part in their CL final. If they never give Klopp player to upgrade their XI in 2017/2018, do you think he would get into the CL final?
Our board back Ole in his first full season but not last summer. We failed to deliver any of our priority targets to upgrade the XI last summer.
Yeah I remember they beat the mighty Roma in the semis. Cup competitions can produce shock finalists
So, so far so good then. Grealish will be our Van Dijk signing and next year we'll go close. Cup runs are hard to guage because it's often about the luck of the draw.
Bottom line, Ole needs to be backed with a big signing in his 3rd summer the way Klopp was with Van Dijk. Then the comparison will be fair and Ole won't have excuses if we don't challenge next year.
First of all points totals are completely irrelevant, you don’t get a bigger trophy for winning the league with 90+ points rather than 80+ points, this is all Liverpool and Man City propaganda to claim they were the best PL sides ever, I hardly ever heard anyone talking about points totals a few years ago.
Why is it ridiculous to compare Klopp’s time at Liverpool and Ole’s time at United? It’s not ridiculous at all. We’ll go off full seasons:
Klopp - 4th, 4th, 2nd, 1st, 6th (this season)
Ole - 3rd, 2nd (this season)
Nobody is comparing Klopp and Ole as Managers but to say their times at each club can’t be compared and to say that Klopp massively outperformed Ole in his first 2 seasons is actually laughable.
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That seems a reasonable viewpoint.
Grealish would probably have a similar impact to VVD given how many of his strengths fall in areas that we’re particularly weak in; much like Van Dijk and Liverpool before he joined.
It’s the bolded part where I think this constant comparison to Klopp will fall flat. Klopp didn’t just make Liverpool challenge - he won the Champions League and then the season after won the Premier League. It’s way too high a metric to use to judge Ole by.
It’s not ridiculous to compare their times at their respective clubs and I never said Klopp outperformed Ole in his first two seasons.
My point, quite clearly, was that if you continue to use that comparison Ole has to win the Premier League and Champions League in the next two seasons to maintain the comparison. We’re not going to do that so stop using Klopp as a metric to judge Ole.
To be fair the "proper squad" argument is biased, how could anyone argue a team that reaches a UCL final is not a "proper squad"?
Truth is while some players are always class under any manager most look good, average or bad depending on the teams level and thats on the manager.
For example Spurs went into a UCL final recently under Poch, no one will say they didnt have a "proper squad" now after changing managers they dont look remotely close to that level. Its basically the same squad, so what happened?
At the end of the day managers influence big time a players potential/level. Thinking about Klopp his squad by names was average until it wasnt, sure you may say they brought players with huge potential and its true, but at the time nobody was impressed by the likes of Robertson, Henderson, Wijnaldun, Salah, etc.
Klopp reached the Champions league final in his "second" season and the 3rd season he won the champions league and got second in the league.
We are nowhere near a CL final this year, neither are we next year and I bet no one of his supporters would dare to say we will ever reach the CL final next year never mind winning it. That is why Managers should be giving only two full season to show that they are capable of winning major trophies. In his "second" season Klopp played great football and was one step from winning the CL league. We are nowhere near that level. I am not even talking about our 3rd position with 66 points while Klopp was 4th with 76 points.
The position does not say all the truth, the points does.
Were the Leicester team that won the league better than the treble winning United team?
Oh look, the Klopp's comparison yet again. I swear people don't get tired of having the same discussions several times.
Irrelevant.
Lukaku, De Gea, Young, Rashford, Pogba, Martial, Smalling, Matic.
It’s not bad. Conte could work with that. Well we know he can. He’s about to win the league with 4 of our players.
The position absolutely is the main thing. The points totals are completely irrelevant. Just so we’re clear, Man City of 17/18 are better than United 07/08?
Klopp got to the CL final and got battered by Madrid, if Liverpool had played Madrid in the round of 16 they’d have been knocked out.
Again the point is, nobody is comparing Ole and Klopp as managers. people are comparing the jobs they have done at their respective clubs, they’re not too dissimilar. I find It quite funny when people get upset when you compare the jobs they have both done.
With Grealish we would have a fair old crack at it
Speaking of biased I think your post is biased or you didn't read the second paragraph. I'm saying this not trying to wind you up so let me explain it here in two parts.
One, Spurs had very good squad in the season when they reached UCL Final. Their squad was different to what they have now because they had prime Aldeweireld, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Trippier, Rose. Some of those players could upgrade our team. And I'm not being biased because I have been sticking to my words about this before in December 2020 I made statements that lot of players from Poch Spurs's XI are actually an upgrade to our ''current'' XI (check link below). Our players are not in their prime age right now.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/epl-title-race-20-21.459537/post-26493925
Two, who said managers don't influence big time on player's potential/level? Come on, let's not making things up here. If anything, I have been saying Ole is a big influence on how our players have shown improvement every year and being well developed. End of the day, you don't turn a baby into a man in one year because there are steps, learn how to walk, talk and etc. Same with footballers, you don't turn young age footballers to their full potential in 1-2 years.
And other thing is, read the second paragraph of the post you replied because your point makes zero sense to counter mine.
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