Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Mainoldo]

So why shouldn't you give credit to Ole due to the fact that our squad has been well built so far, well developed so far, and shown improvement to reach their potential then? Unlike Pep, Ole wasn't blessed with 5 already top top players with some PL winning league title experiences when he joined. Unlike Pep, Ole hasn't got 5 years time to develop his non top players and his young players to his full potential.

Because I don’t believe the spin. Why am I giving him credit for being here two years and winning nothing.

Meanwhile 4 of our players he sold off to Inter (well one got their eventual) are about to win a title. Like fair play to him he’s done better than I expected him to. But it doesn’t mean it’s enough or that he’s done a good job for our standards.

Conte could have got the job at the end of his interim and we probably would be 5 points clear at the top.

You just feel better knowing it’s Ole.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Because I don’t believe the spin. Why am I giving him credit for being here two years and winning nothing.

Because you need to open your mind and eyes that in order to win the league title you need to build a proper good squad first and it takes time and sacrifices in the process. The process is still going the right path and showing progress which based on the squad has evolved each year, how the squad shown improvement and being well developed is what you should see as sign of progress going the right path. We are in the similar phase of what Klopp went through in his first 3 years at Liverpool. Did Klopp win something in that first 3 years? No.

Meanwhile 4 of our players he sold off to Inter (well one got their eventual) are about to win a title. Like fair play to him he’s done better than I expected him to. But it doesn’t mean it’s enough or that he’s done a good job for our standards.

Conte could have got the job at the end of his interim and we probably would be 5 points clear at the top.

You just feel better knowing it’s Ole.

Yeah it's Serie A mate, you can't compare it to EPL that tier above it. None of this season Serie A teams are even comparable to Man City. And the fact that there is no longer Serie A teams are still in UCL and only one team AS Roma in EL sums it up.

 

[NZT-One]

Because you need to open your mind and eyes that in order to win the league title you need to build a proper good squad first and it takes time and sacrifices in the process. The process is still going the right path and showing progress which based on the squad has evolved each year, how the squad shown improvement and being well developed is what you should see as sign of progress going the right path. We are in the similar phase of what Klopp went through in his first 3 years at Liverpool. Did Klopp win something in that first 3 years? No.

Yeah sure, this would make a great text on brochure, wouldn't it? Warm feelings and statements that mostly are very difficult to prove or prove against.
Let's examine though what you did there: you brought Klopp into the comparison. Klopp in the end of his 3rd year was in a CL final and got 89 points in the league. He came to Liverpool having won the Bundesliga two times went to a CL final with Dortmund. Lets not go further into it, it just isn't a good comparison.

You infer that somebody who doesn't share your view about progress and aspirations has to have a closed mind and eyes. Well, that's bolt, isn't it? How come your opinions and arguments carry more weight than others?
No need to defend Mainoldo and I disagree with a lot of his statements but we should level the playing field once and for all: For all the trust you have in Ole and the progress he makes, you don't know the outcome. And you also don't know, if we wouldn't be at the exact same spot or maybe even better with a different coach. Nobody knows it.

Pretending you would know that is no better than suggesting that we would certainly be better off with a different manager.

So one of Mainoldos statement holds a deep truth: you made the decision to perceive matters on a very positive way for the current manager. That's well and fine. But it doesn't make you more right, a better fan or anything in comparison to people who decide to perceive matters not as positive as you do.

 

[RedSky]

As a neutral I can clearly say United and Burnley are the worst teams to watch in the league.

To say you prefer United just means you prefer to be in our position and not in a relegation battle.

Which club do you support then?

 

[spontaneus1]

Which club do you support then?

Liverpool.

 

[RedSky]

Liverpool.

Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Mainoldo]

Because you need to open your mind and eyes that in order to win the league title you need to build a proper good squad first and it takes time and sacrifices in the process. The process is still going the right path and showing progress which based on the squad has evolved each year, how the squad shown improvement and being well developed is what you should see as sign of progress going the right path. We are in the similar phase of what Klopp went through in his first 3 years at Liverpool. Did Klopp win something in that first 3 years? No.



Yeah it's Serie A mate, you can't compare it to EPL that tier above it. None of this season Serie A teams are even comparable to Man City. And the fact that there is no longer Serie A teams are still in UCL and only one team AS Roma in EL sums it up.

Okay well he did it at Chelsea too. The EPL. You said that these things take time. It’s taken Conte a year and now two years to deliver a title for both clubs. Quality does exist in managers too. I love Martial but I have no doubt Kane and Haaland would do a better job. Simply because they are better players. The same goes for managers. Yes they need backing and yes other factors can come into play. But like a said if we brought Conte in he would probably have us challenge as in top or close to top right now because he’s a far better manager.

 

[Mainoldo]

Which club do you support then?

You doing a Netflix series catch up on the Ole Gunner Solskjaer thread?

 

[RedSky]

You doing a Netflix series catch up on the Ole Gunner Solskjaer thread?

Not answered the question. Which club do you support? We need to enter the details on your profile. Cheers.

 

[Withnail]

Not answered the question. Which club do you support? We need to enter the details on your profile. Cheers.

I think it's lost in translation.

Without my United bias. Never heard the phrase watching as a neutral?

I've never heard someone use that phrase when they weren't a neutral before.

 

[RedSky]

I think it's lost in translation.

Well given that he's already admitted to trolling on the forum before. Doesn't look like a good post to me.

 

[Mainoldo]

Not answered the question. Which club do you support? We need to enter the details on your profile. Cheers.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer FC

 

[Matriac]

Well given that he's already admitted to trolling on the forum before. Doesn't look like a good post to me.

That's most his posts really. Either a wum or a plonkard. Made an early entry to my prestigious ignore list.

 

[anant]

Well given that he's already admitted to trolling on the forum before. Doesn't look like a good post to me.

Genuine question - How's he not been banned yet. Sammsky, Goldtrafford have, and rightly so, but surely he's as bad if not worse than them

 

[edgecutter]

Tuchel beats Athletico = what a tactician, brilliant chelsea.

Ole beats Milan= why no sub, why is Ole smiling, boring United

You can't compare Athletico to Milan.

Athletico have been a European heavyweight for some time and are always a challenger when it comes to the Champions League.

 

[RedSky]

Genuine question - How's he not been banned yet. Sammsky, Goldtrafford have, and rightly so, but surely he's as bad if not worse than them

Magic 8-Ball says... "feck knows".

 

[AshRK]

You can't compare Athletico to Milan.

Athletico have been a European heavyweight for some time and are always a challenger when it comes to the Champions League.

But a win is a win. Just last week people were bashing him and even a thread was created how our season will end this week. So credit should be given.

 

[united_99]

Genuine question - How's he not been banned yet. Sammsky, Goldtrafford have, and rightly so, but surely he's as bad if not worse than them

Very good question indeed

 

[Withnail]

But a win is a win. Just last week people were bashing him and even a thread was created how our season will end this week. So credit should be given.

That was a wum thread though.

 

[united_99]

You can't compare Athletico to Milan.

Athletico have been a European heavyweight for some time and are always a challenger when it comes to the Champions League.

Well this forum is obsessed with traditional big 6 teams in the league. Milan are traditional European heavyweights whereas Atletico have as many Champion League / European Cup trophies as City

 

[edgecutter]

But a win is a win. Just last week people were bashing him and even a thread was created how our season will end this week. So credit should be given.

I get that, but there is no comparison. Chelsea are in the QF of the Champions League while we are in the EL, a competition that is even remotely important to our season (unless we couldn't qualify for the Champions League through our league form).

 

[Wumminator]

Genuine question - How's he not been banned yet. Sammsky, Goldtrafford have, and rightly so, but surely he's as bad if not worse than them

No idea. It’s ridiculous really.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Yeah sure, this would make a great text on brochure, wouldn't it? Warm feelings and statements that mostly are very difficult to prove or prove against.
Let's examine though what you did there: you brought Klopp into the comparison. Klopp in the end of his 3rd year was in a CL final and got 89 points in the league. He came to Liverpool having won the Bundesliga two times went to a CL final with Dortmund. Lets not go further into it, it just isn't a good comparison.

You infer that somebody who doesn't share your view about progress and aspirations has to have a closed mind and eyes. Well, that's bolt, isn't it? How come your opinions and arguments carry more weight than others?
No need to defend Mainoldo and I disagree with a lot of his statements but we should level the playing field once and for all: For all the trust you have in Ole and the progress he makes, you don't know the outcome. And you also don't know, if we wouldn't be at the exact same spot or maybe even better with a different coach. Nobody knows it.

Pretending you would know that is no better than suggesting that we would certainly be better off with a different manager.

So one of Mainoldos statement holds a deep truth: you made the decision to perceive matters on a very positive way for the current manager. That's well and fine. But it doesn't make you more right, a better fan or anything in comparison to people who decide to perceive matters not as positive as you do.

Where did I infer somebody? People can agree and disagree about it, you are all free to choose. But don't start making unfair comparison between Ole & Pep situation, that was the problem. One manager already had top top players KDB, Kompany, Fernandinho, Silva & Aguero before he was hired, which is the reason why time wasn't the issue for Pep to build his winning squad. While the other manager only had Pogba before he was hired, which is the reason why time was the issue for Ole to build his winning squad. And then one manager had 5 years (more or less) to develop and improve their recruitment to reach their full potential like Gundogan, Stones, Bernardo, Rodri and etc. While the other manager only had around 2 years or less to develop and improve players to reach their full potential like Rashford, Bissaka, Shaw, McTominay, VDB and etc.

End of the day, if it takes Pep around 5 years to make players like Gundogan & Stones to reach their full potential then it's only fair for Ole to be given more time than what he has so far to develop our young players to reach their full potential. Nobody knows the outcome but are you going to deny that our squad is not showing improvement?

Klopp finished with 75 points in his 3rd season. And you clearly miss the whole point as you now started brought up Klopp at Dortmund because it's irrelevant to the point I was making.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Okay well he did it at Chelsea too. The EPL. You said that these things take time. It’s taken Conte a year and now two years to deliver a title for both clubs. Quality does exist in managers too. I love Martial but I have no doubt Kane and Haaland would do a better job. Simply because they are better players. The same goes for managers. Yes they need backing and yes other factors can come into play. But like a said if we brought Conte in he would probably have us challenge as in top or close to top right now because he’s a far better manager.

Okay, Do I need to repeat this again but change the Pep's name into Conte? Just like Pep, Conte also had top top players who were still in their prime that won the PL title when he was hired as Chelsea manager. Thus why the time and development were not an issue when Conte already had top top players in their prime age.

As soon as he lost just two of his players that won the PL and spent huge to replaced them, Conte finished from PL winner to 5th in one year period. So if we brought Conte, we could still be in the same situation or may be worse than where we are right now. End of the day, this current squad is still considered in developing stage compare to Man City because Man City have much more experiences players to win the PL. Players like Stones, Gundogan and etc who stepped up this season were being developed in longer period than what Ole had been in charged here.

 

[Foxbatt]

Ole is not going to win the PL and neither would have Conte. Conte would not have got anything out if this lot either.

 

[Mainoldo]

Okay, Do I need to repeat this again but change the Pep's name into Conte? Just like Pep, Conte also had top top players who were still in their prime that won the PL title when he was hired as Chelsea manager. Thus why the time and development were not an issue when Conte already had top top players in their prime age.

As soon as he lost just two of his players that won the PL and spent huge to replaced them, Conte finished from PL winner to 5th in one year period. So if we brought Conte, we could still be in the same situation or may be worse than where we are right now. End of the day, this current squad is still considered in developing stage compare to Man City because Man City have much more experiences players to win the PL. Players like Stones, Gundogan and etc who stepped up this season were being developed in longer period than what Ole had been in charged here.

All perspective isn’t it. We will never know. What I do know is Ole got as much money as Conte at Inter.

 

[DWelbz19]

As a neutral I can clearly say United and Burnley are the worst teams to watch in the league.

To say you prefer United just means you prefer to be in our position and not in a relegation battle.

 

[Olecurls99]

Okay. We are just going back to the beginning. Let’s just give Pep credit for being able to build a team and make them Champions. Those same players finished equal with us on points the year before he came in and they was lucky to achieve that. If we didn’t blow the West Ham game and they didn’t get lucky on the last day of the season again. They would have been 5th.

You're right. They owe all they have to Pep. Including the league titles they won before he arrived. All hail Pep.

 

[NZT-One]

Where did I infer somebody? People can agree and disagree about it, you are all free to choose. But don't start making unfair comparison between Ole & Pep situation, that was the problem. One manager already had top top players KDB, Kompany, Fernandinho, Silva & Aguero before he was hired, which is the reason why time wasn't the issue for Pep to build his winning squad. While the other manager only had Pogba before he was hired, which is the reason why time was the issue for Ole to build his winning squad. And then one manager had 5 years (more or less) to develop and improve their recruitment to reach their full potential like Gundogan, Stones, Bernardo, Rodri and etc. While the other manager only had around 2 years or less to develop and improve players to reach their full potential like Rashford, Bissaka, Shaw, McTominay, VDB and etc.


End of the day, if it takes Pep around 5 years to make players like Gundogan & Stones to reach their full potential then it's only fair for Ole to be given more time than what he has so far to develop our young players to reach their full potential. Nobody knows the outcome but are you going to deny that our squad is not showing improvement?


Klopp finished with 75 points in his 3rd season. And you clearly miss the whole point as you now started brought up Klopp at Dortmund because it's irrelevant to the point I was making.

What do you think about other people here on the forum when you feel the need to make sure some thoughts are always met with a certain reaction?


Look, you gave the touching point away in your post: it seems like you think, that Ole only inherited Pogba in the worldclass category. But that isn't true. He also inherited players like Rashford, De Gea, Martial, Greenwood, McTominay, Fred, Matic and Shaw. These weren't bad players just because some struggled under Mourinho. Half of them are still in the 1st team. Maguire and Wan Bissaka were mostly already lined up so Ole only had to pull the trigger, it is not like he came up with these names, they were the obvious ones back then. It seems like the squad wasn't that bad after all and underperformed under Mou. Ole was successful in taking away that negative influence. For me, we are now performing more to the real level of our players. What I am asking is - wouldn't it be great to have them overperform once in a while?

I am not denying that the results improved. Ole earned as much and even a bit more credit for it as the team itself. We are more entertaining to watch than under LVG and Mourinho, I'll give you that - but whats the real value of that? Is that because we play so good under Ole or because we played badly under the other guys? For sure I know my stance on that...

I kind of struggle to see other improvements. Maguire became a laughing stock beginning of this season - it is common now to name him when the topic is overpaying for players. AWB was targeted by opposition managers because of his subpar technique - not a good sign even if that doesn't seem to be a very big issue these days. Rashford was better last season when he was asked to create more, he struggles badly this season. Martials emergence last year was seemingly not connected with the manager because then it shouldn't have imploded like it did this season. McTominay seemed always to be a big game player with great mentality. And he improved by getting more reliable. But did he improve his passing? His positioning? His shooting? Which aspect of the game do you think has been worked on? The same with Rashford - which area specifically?

Maybe, just maybe - our squad didn't just live up to their potential only because of Mourinho's missing positive impulses but because of the negative impulses he created. Especially to Shaw. The best performances in the last two years have been in the caretaker time. When everybody felt free, we hadn't even Bruno back then. Would you agree, that all the improvements you see (and I only do partly) are maybe due to the non-existence of negative influence (i.e. Mourinho) at least as much as because of the positive influence of the current manager?

There were threads here called "zombie passing" years ago. It is still an issue except for the odd game where the opposition is daft enough to have a go at us. If Brighton manages to perform quick passing play, if the second string of AC Milan manages to do it, how is it possible to insist that we just don't have the players to do it? If we have a manager, who should only be held responsible when he has the best of the best at his disposal, then we always have to pray that transfers work out like they did with Bruno. Is that a good idea looking at our transfer history?

 

[RashyForPM]

2019-20

Premier League - 3rd
Europa League - Semi final
FA Cup - Semi final
League Cup - Semi final, knocked out by the competition winners.

2020-21

Premier League - 2nd, 12 points more than we had at this stage last season.
Europa League - Quarter final, heavy favourites to advance.
FA Cup - Quarter final, 50-50 to advance
League Cup - Knocked out in the semis by the likely competition winners.

In the cold light of day, we have definitely made progress this season. Most importantly though, we have to keep this up, finish 2nd in the PL and win one of the cups, preferably the EL but I’d take any trophy, just to foster a winning mentality in the squad. We need to at least maintain this current style of play too until the end of the season, because even if our attackers are just playing off the cuff, we do create chances and score loads of goals playing this way. Should we achieve all this, giving Ole a new contract would be the right call.

At the same time, next season, first and foremost, the board needs to back him with at least one top defender and attacker. Then, we do need to see further development on coordinated attacking play. Patterns of play, if you like, because that’s the phrase going around now. All top teams score goals where you think ‘that’s the managers work’. I gave a bit of credit to his football atm in the last paragraph because it’s better than that of his 3 predecessors, but that’s still not good enough. In terms of results, it’s simple. CL quarter final and a real title challenge where we either win the PL or push our competitors right to the 90th minute of GW38.

That would be success. All credit to Ole, he’s largely navigated choppy seas and his job security is as secure as it’s been since he arrived. However, he’s not out of the woods just yet. As I said, a title challenge would greatly help with that.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

What do you think about other people here on the forum when you feel the need to make sure some thoughts are always met with a certain reaction?


Look, you gave the touching point away in your post: it seems like you think, that Ole only inherited Pogba in the worldclass category. But that isn't true. He also inherited players like Rashford, De Gea, Martial, Greenwood, McTominay, Fred, Matic and Shaw. These weren't bad players just because some struggled under Mourinho. Half of them are still in the 1st team. Maguire and Wan Bissaka were mostly already lined up so Ole only had to pull the trigger, it is not like he came up with these names, they were the obvious ones back then. It seems like the squad wasn't that bad after all and underperformed under Mou. Ole was successful in taking away that negative influence. For me, we are now performing more to the real level of our players. What I am asking is - wouldn't it be great to have them overperform once in a while?

I am not denying that the results improved. Ole earned as much and even a bit more credit for it as the team itself. We are more entertaining to watch than under LVG and Mourinho, I'll give you that - but whats the real value of that? Is that because we play so good under Ole or because we played badly under the other guys? For sure I know my stance on that...

I kind of struggle to see other improvements. Maguire became a laughing stock beginning of this season - it is common now to name him when the topic is overpaying for players. AWB was targeted by opposition managers because of his subpar technique - not a good sign even if that doesn't seem to be a very big issue these days. Rashford was better last season when he was asked to create more, he struggles badly this season. Martials emergence last year was seemingly not connected with the manager because then it shouldn't have imploded like it did this season. McTominay seemed always to be a big game player with great mentality. And he improved by getting more reliable. But did he improve his passing? His positioning? His shooting? Which aspect of the game do you think has been worked on? The same with Rashford - which area specifically?

Maybe, just maybe - our squad didn't just live up to their potential only because of Mourinho's missing positive impulses but because of the negative impulses he created. Especially to Shaw. The best performances in the last two years have been in the caretaker time. When everybody felt free, we hadn't even Bruno back then. Would you agree, that all the improvements you see (and I only do partly) are maybe due to the non-existence of negative influence (i.e. Mourinho) at least as much as because of the positive influence of the current manager?

There were threads here called "zombie passing" years ago. It is still an issue except for the odd game where the opposition is daft enough to have a go at us. If Brighton manages to perform quick passing play, if the second string of AC Milan manages to do it, how is it possible to insist that we just don't have the players to do it? If we have a manager, who should only be held responsible when he has the best of the best at his disposal, then we always have to pray that transfers work out like they did with Bruno. Is that a good idea looking at our transfer history?

You labelled my post for being infer to somebody and yet you also acted the similar way by calling my view as ''is not true''. Is it really not true though? Well, let me tell you something what you are missing.

No one say that Ole inherited bunch of bad players, there are some ''talented'' bunch of players but talented that is still in their early age is different to talented that already in their prime age. This is what you didn't read in my post is that unlike Pep, Ole didn't inherit players that ''already top/world class in their prime age''. The only players who were considered as already top/world class and still in their prime age were Pogba & DDG but one of them (DDG) already shows sign of decline before Ole took in charge. Other players like Rashford, McTominay, Martial, Shaw and etc, they were just talented players that hasn't been well developed under Mourinho and those players weren't in their prime age means it's natural that the manager will need time to develop them to reach their full potential when they reach their prime age. Other players like Mata, Matic, Sanchez, Valencia and etc, they already past their best, they couldn't even play week in week out anymore.

It would be great for players to over-perform but you cannot ask players who are still 19-24 to perform in their full potential because that range of age is still considered as development age. Not everyone are like Rooney, Messi & Ronaldo. Look at John Stones for example, it took Pep 5 years to develop him until he reached his full potential at 26. Look at Shaw for example, it took Ole 3rd seasons to develop him until he became one of the best left back in the league now at 25.

The real value here is about building the team so we can have good squad to challenge or win the league title. It will take time and sacrifices because the players that he inherited need to be developed first to reach their full potential and some need to be replaced.

You cannot deny the improvement that Rashford has shown every year ever since Ole took in charged, same with McTominay, Shaw and other players. I could go into detail about what each of those players have improved but this is not the thread, even if I go into detail, you could always call them ''is not true''. But the reality is that people back then didn't think those players were even good enough, they said ''Mourinho was right'', and now people realised Mourinho were wrong after the improvement that our players have shown.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

All perspective isn’t it. We will never know. What I do know is Ole got as much money as Conte at Inter.

Do people build a building from scratch within a day by just using money? You use money to buy something, hire contractors and people but it still takes time to build it.

Look at John Stones for example. It took Pep 5 years to develop him to reach his full potential. It takes time to develop some talented players who are still in their development age.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Do people build a building from scratch within a day by just using money? You use money to buy something, hire contractors and people but it still takes time to build it.

Look at John Stones for example. It took Pep 5 years to develop him to reach his full potential. It takes time to develop some talented players who are still in their development age.

We have NO time, we MUST win now, Ole has SPENT money! WE ARE MANCHESTER UNITED!!!!

I expect a few similar replies to this

 

[Mainoldo]

Do people build a building from scratch within a day by just using money? You use money to buy something, hire contractors and people but it still takes time to build it.

Look at John Stones for example. It took Pep 5 years to develop him to reach his full potential. It takes time to develop some talented players who are still in their development age.

Stones just fits in well with this new system. It’s not 5 years of development waiting for this very season for him to come good. You could have probably got him for £25m in the summer if anyone wanted to spend the money.

But meanwhile whilst he was ‘developing’ . They was winning titles.

Anyway nice attempt you tried hard to back your corner of needing time. But it’s quite simple good managers know how to build teams whilst also getting results fast. There’s numerous recent examples but feel free to let me know what manager had needed 5 years to get a team in a position to be title contenders.

 

[Mainoldo]

We have NO time, we MUST win now, Ole has SPENT money! WE ARE MANCHESTER UNITED!!!!

I expect a few similar replies to this

Are you some kind of back up dancer.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Are you some kind of back up dancer.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

But a win is a win. Just last week people were bashing him and even a thread was created how our season will end this week. So credit should be given.

Difference between the Europa League and Champions League is massive though. Biesla won the Championship, it doesn't make his win comparable to Klopp's PL win. It is impressive but we are talking different worlds here.

 

[MattofManchester]

A win may be a win, but we are very dull to watch. So, very dull.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Stones just fits in well with this new system. It’s not 5 years of development waiting for this very season for him to come good. You could have probably got him for £25m in the summer if anyone wanted to spend the money.

It's the same manager with the same philosophy of football. Man City bought John Stones in 2016. Until last summer, people already counted him out because he didn't fulfil his potential.

But meanwhile whilst he was ‘developing’ . They was winning titles.

Do I still need to remind you again that time and development were not an issue because when Pep joined he already had the prime KDB, Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Fernandinho at the club. You can't keep ignoring this fact.

They were winning league titles when Kompany was around as their centre back alongside Otamendi and Laporte. And they didn't win it when they lost him last season.

Anyway nice attempt you tried hard to back your corner of needing time. But it’s quite simple good managers know how to build teams whilst also getting results fast. There’s numerous recent examples but feel free to let me know what manager had needed 5 years to get a team in a position to be title contenders.

Klopp is a good manager and it took him his 4th year to finally win the first trophy with Liverpool because he needed time to rebuild and develop the squad as he had no top/world class players in their prime age when he took in charged. Unlike Pep at City & Conte at Chelsea.

 

[Mainoldo]

It's the same manager with the same philosophy of football. Man City bought John Stones in 2016. Until last summer, people already counted him out because he didn't fulfil his potential.

My point exactly. They wasn’t waiting for him to come good. He’s just lucky he took his opportunity. Read what I wrote. You could have probably got him for £25m. That means he was surplus to requirements.

Do I still need to remind you again that time and development were not an issue because when Pep joined he already had the prime KDB, Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Fernandinho at the club. You can't keep ignoring this fact.

They were winning league titles when Kompany was around as their centre back alongside Otamendi and Laporte. And they didn't win it when they lost him last season.

I’m not ignoring it. You was talking about time for development. I said it’s not required, now you just telling me about externalities. You brought up Stones not me

Klopp is a good manager and it took him his 4th year to finally win the first trophy with Liverpool because he needs time to rebuild and develop the squad as he had no top/world class players in their prime age when he took in charged. Unlike Pep at City & Conte at Chelsea.

Well Ole best win the Championship League next season then. We all know he won’t