Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[The Oracle]

I wonder what his fanboys would say If he does not win EL? any football fan with little knowledge can see the huge difference between him and Klopp, Pep. How a club in the size and prestige like our club accept the fact that our rivals have a 10 times better manager than us is unbelievable.

Agree with this.

We literally play shit on a stick football with the odd moment of individual brilliance.

City play possession football and are brilliant at it.

Liverpool play a high pressing game, and are relentless at it for a whole 90 minutes.

We have reached as far as we can with Ole; and if we win the Europa next week then it's just simply icing on a shit cake.

 

[Bebestation]

He took a team finished second with 82 points.

Jose Mourinho is a short term manager. He didn’t leave shit.
He hardly leaves anything at his clubs post his management arguably except At Chelsea. The fact his third season was not 2nd but 7th highlighted this.

 

[gazbradley]

Ole is a steady manager who keeps it all fairly simple, he’s shown he’s better than his CV suggests but there’s also probably not a lot more to come.

Finishing season poorly is understandable, players are thinking about final and after long and difficult season it was always likely to happen.

A good transfer window is needed as is better management and coaching. Ext season should be make or break for Ole, needs a big step forward but he has done enough to be given that opportunity.

Pretty much sums up how I feel. I’ll happily say I was wrong and he’s done a better job than I expected, although I’m still not convinced he’s the one to take us to the next level he definitely deserves a go at next season. The one thing I am confident with him when or if he does leave is the next manager will definitely inherit a good squad to build on and it may be a weird scenario where Oles contribution is rated higher once he’s gone for instilling a lot key values back into our club.

 

[Karlos PFC]

Give him the money Pep has been given first, then a second squad that would comfortably compete for a top 4. Only after that we could be sure about.

P/s: and a guy as good as Txiki Begiristain.

Yeah cause that's the only difference between Ole and Pep. City are a rich club, compared to poor Ole that has to compete with Brighton and Sheffild for players.

P/s : why would he need Txiki Begiristain, he has his buddies Carrick and Fletcher

 

[romufc]

Agree with this.

We literally play shit on a stick football with the odd moment of individual brilliance.

City play possession football and are brilliant at it.

Liverpool play a high pressing game, and are relentless at it for a whole 90 minutes.

We have reached as far as we can with Ole; and if we win the Europa next week then it's just simply icing on a shit cake.

So why did Klopp need to spend £75m on a CB and £60m on a keeper? Surely if he is as good as you say he is he should win the league with the squad he had?

I have never seen a manager not rely on individual brilliance. This is why players cost what they do, they can produce magic.

So where has being relentless for 90 mins got Liverpool this season?

Again, acting as if they don't rely on individual brilliance? Salah has scored numerous goals that have come out of nothing.

If you watched us play, there are quite clear patterns of play that you can see he wants us to play, which for most teams that want to win stuff requires good individual players.

 

[Sylar]

The 'only Relying on individual brilliance' line is stupid, as i remember many times under Fergie we relied on individual brilliance of RVP, or Ronaldo, Or RVN or before that Cantona.
And the 'greatest team ever in barca' relied upon Messi many times for his brilliance.

 

[romufc]

2). Go on good cup runs, but ultimately fail to get to a final

3). Occasionally get to the top of the Premier League, but ultimately choke and fall back down the table.

We finished 3rd last year and 2nd this year... so much for choking.

We have a final to look forward to.....

Stop the agenda for once please.

 

[RedSky]

Remember when Jose sacrificed our league position to ensure he won the Europa League? No real difference here (with the exception that Ole has us finishing 2nd rather than 6th), Ole's been managing the squads fitness since the Villa game to ensure the players are ready for the final.

Not happy with the result yesterday but him taking off Greenwood and Cavani was no problem. The same people bitching about Ole taking them off were the same people bitching about him not making subs or not putting Diallo on. He's in a no win situation with these fans.

 

[Zen86]

It's a disappointing end to the season, but we're still second and we're still in the EL final. We've progressed from last season in a year that's been fairly unprecedented, suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. We're quite clearly not the finished article though and quite clearly have issues we need to fix.

The squad is certainly better placed than it was 2 or 3 years ago. However we still need 2-3 good acquisitions in the summer if we want to challenge next year, we knew this before the season began and we still know it now.

The summer is basically make or break for this club.

 

[youngrell]

Yeah cause that's the only difference between Ole and Pep. City are a rich club, compared to poor Ole that has to compete with Brighton and Sheffild for players.

P/s : why would he need Txiki Begiristain, he has his buddies Carrick and Fletcher

That's the whole point isn't it? Guardiola already has the experience and credentials AND he also has the best squad and finances on top.

Until there's a more level playing field with regards to the latter, we have no idea if Ole is capable of consistently winning the top prizes.

 

[elmo]

I wonder what his fanboys would say If he does not win EL? any football fan with little knowledge can see the huge difference between him and Klopp, Pep. How a club in the size and prestige like our club accept the fact that our rivals have a 10 times better manager than us is unbelievable.

Ole isn't backed by the club because they didn't sign Kane, Grealish and Sancho for him and instead forced VDB on him.

We don't have enough quality players on the bench.

Unlucky that Maguire got injured.

We've a young squad that's inexperienced.

He's giving playing time to the youngsters.

 

[The Hilton]

He took a team finished second with 82 points.

He took over a team that had historically achieved that, but that wasn't where we were when he took over - it's about as relevant as saying he took over a team that won the CL back in 2008.

Ole took over a team that was 6th, in free fall, full of dead weight and with players desperate to get out. The salvage job he's done has been excellent

If you can't be honest about where we were when he took over then your opinion about where we're going under him carries very little weight.

 

[romufc]

He took a team finished second with 82 points.

This is news to me... Ole took over in the summer?

My recollection was he took over from Jose in December when we were 6th..

 

[romufc]

The 'only Relying on individual brilliance' line is stupid, as i remember many times under Fergie we relied on individual brilliance of RVP, or Ronaldo, Or RVN or before that Cantona.
And the 'greatest team ever in barca' relied upon Messi many times for his brilliance.

Its one of the worst arguments I have ever seen.

There is a reason teams with best players do well. They are individually brilliant. If Pep, Klopp and the like do not rely on individual brilliance, they would not need to spend £100-200m on players, they should be able to win leagues with anyone.

I mean its not like City rely on KDB to unlock a defence or Liverpool rely on their full backs?

It's one of the biggest flawed arguments I have seen, only Manutd fans complain of being second and EL final because they don't like the manager.

 

[Giggsyking]

He took over a team that had historically achieved that, but that wasn't where we were when he took over - it's about as relevant as saying he took over a team that won the CL back in 2008.

Ole took over a team that was 6th, in free fall, full of dead weight and with players desperate to get out. The salvage job he's done has been excellent

If you can't be honest about where we were when he took over then your opinion about where we're going under him carries very little weight.

The team he took over was 2nd in the league 5 months before his arrival.
Anyhow, it is not important now. What is important now is to win the league next season. If he cant promise fighting for the league (as Liverpool did in two seasons) then he is not worth the wait.

 

[RedSky]

This is news to me... Ole took over in the summer?

My recollection was he took over from Jose in December when we were 6th..

This was the top 10 when Jose was sacked.

Club	Games	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
Liverpool	17	14	3	0	37	7	30	45
Manchester City	17	14	2	1	48	10	38	44
Tottenham Hotspur	17	13	0	4	31	16	15	39
Chelsea	17	11	4	2	35	14	21	37
Arsenal	17	10	4	3	37	23	14	34
Manchester United	17	7	5	5	29	29	0	26
Wolverhampton Wanderers	17	7	4	6	19	19	0	25
Everton	17	6	6	5	24	22	2	24
West Ham United	17	7	3	7	25	25	0	24
Watford	17	7	3	7	23	25	-2	24

 

[RedSky]

What is important now is to win the league next season.

Personally feel that's just not realistic and you're setting him up to fail.

I want us to be challenging for the title and pushing hard till May, 80 point finish as a minimum. Have another good run in the cups and establish ourselves back in the CL as a team aiming for the quarters as a minimum benchmark. Do that next season and I'll be happy and see that as continued progress.

 

[romufc]

This was the top 10 when Jose was sacked.

​

Club	Games	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
Liverpool	17	14	3	0	37	7	30	45
Manchester City	17	14	2	1	48	10	38	44
Tottenham Hotspur	17	13	0	4	31	16	15	39
Chelsea	17	11	4	2	35	14	21	37
Arsenal	17	10	4	3	37	23	14	34
Manchester United	17	7	5	5	29	29	0	26
Wolverhampton Wanderers	17	7	4	6	19	19	0	25
Everton	17	6	6	5	24	22	2	24
West Ham United	17	7	3	7	25	25	0	24
Watford	17	7	3	7	23	25	-2	24

Exactly, closer to Watford in 10th. Not 2nd like some posters here are stating.

We were 8 points of Arsenal,. If people cannot see progress then I dont know what to say.

 

[anant]

This is news to me... Ole took over in the summer?

My recollection was he took over from Jose in December when we were 6th..

And we were closer to 13th than we were to 5th then

 

[RedSky]

Exactly, closer to Watford in 10th. Not 2nd like some posters here are stating.

We were 8 points of Arsenal,. If people cannot see progress then I dont know what to say.

What's clear to see is that Ole has made us a tough team to beat, he's also restored our tenacious personality and got us scoring a feck ton of goals. However, we also have a really soft belly and leak way too many goals, that needs addressing next season if we want to take the next step.

 

[romufc]

What's clear to see is that Ole has made us a tough team to beat, he's also restored our tenacious personality and got us scoring a feck ton of goals. However, we also have a really soft belly and leak way too many goals, that needs addressing next season if we want to take the next step.

Ofcourse, no one saying we are the finished article.

If you look at the big games this season, we haven't conceded that many goals and you can also see Ole is trying to change the way we play those games with more possession.

We have a CDM pairing that would probably not get into the Everton first 11. There is clear room for improvement, we get this window right and I think we can start dominating more games.

 

[The Hilton]

The team he took over was 2nd in the league 5 months before his arrival.
Anyhow, it is not important now. What is important now is to win the league next season. If he cant promise fighting for the league (as Liverpool did in two seasons) then he is not worth the wait.

Still irrelevant, as the players had clearly downed tools and we were in a horrible state. You can't honestly tell me we'd have made this kind of recovery under Mou.

I agree with you that we should expect a real title challenge next season, as that's the next step to continue the progress we've made. There's a question about whether Ole can take us to the top level, next season will go a long way to answering it, one way or another.

 

[red4ever 79]

Switched it off half time. Cant fathom and stomach this bullshit any longer. McFred at home to a relegated team and we get a 1-1. If Ole doesnt buy a CDM in the summer or switch the setup I wont be tuning in.

 

[RedSky]

Ofcourse, no one saying we are the finished article.

If you look at the big games this season, we haven't conceded that many goals and you can also see Ole is trying to change the way we play those games with more possession.

We have a CDM pairing that would probably not get into the Everton first 11. There is clear room for improvement, we get this window right and I think we can start dominating more games.

From my perspective I feel like we're getting closer and slowly closing the gap. But this window is huge, make or break for this team. If its another summer of messing about with Sancho and failing then i'll be livid.

 

[OleBoiii]

- Ole is the only manager post Fergie who has shown a consistent upwards trajectory.
- He's the only manager to not finish outside the top 4 when given a full season.
- He's the only manager capable of getting his players to give 100%(provided there is something to play for).
- He's instilled a never-say-die attitude unlike anything we've seen post Fergie. Our comeback ability is unmatched.
- He's a damn rock in the media. Practically always says the right things.
- His rebuild is way better than Van Gaal's and Mourinho's.

Another point that requires more attention: adjusted for football market inflation*, he's probably spent significantly less money than Van Gaal and Mourinho.

* Something happened in the transfer market around 2017/2018. Prices suddenly got insane. Shaw and Wan Bissaka are practically the "same" signing, yet the latter cost almost twice as much. A player like Maguire would cost maybe 40 million in 2016. And imagine what 23 year old superstar Pogba would have cost in this market. 80 million would be considered robbery! Dortmund wanted 120 million for Sancho, for feck's sake!

Truth be told, Ole has been operating under a much tighter budget than his predecessors if you consider how crazy the market has become.

 

[romufc]

From my perspective I feel like we're getting closer and slowly closing the gap. But this window is huge, make or break for this team. If its another summer of messing about with Sancho and failing then i'll be livid.

Agreed. It might not be the way some of us want but people are really underestimating the job he has done. I mean there was calls for him to be sacked twice this season, he kept the faith of the players.

He needs to be backed properly this time around. I cannot see progress if we spend 8 weeks chasing one player. We need to get players in early.

 

[Karlos PFC]

That's the whole point isn't it? Guardiola already has the experience and credentials AND he also has the best squad and finances on top.

Until there's a more level playing field with regards to the latter, we have no idea if Ole is capable of consistently winning the top prizes.

The key word here is credentials. By hiring Pep everyone knew what they were getting, instead a club the size of Man United took the risk for hiring an unproven coach. That noone knows if he can win trophies consistently. And by most fans we can't win the league or play great football until we have the best and most expensive squad.

Why not hire a coach that can compete with Pep and Klopp and has some actual credentials that can prove this. Improving every year by 5 points is progress but not something that we must hold on to and keep renewing his contract. With this rate we'll be lifting the league in 20 years time.

Even though he's earned his 3rd season, I can't help but feel that next year we'll be struggling for 5th or 6th.

Also we must win the Europa league, if not then serious questions need to be asked. The amount of times we bottled a competition is staggering

 

[UnitedSofa]

Personally feel that's just not realistic and you're setting him up to fail.

I want us to be challenging for the title and pushing hard till May, 80 point finish as a minimum. Have another good run in the cups and establish ourselves back in the CL as a team aiming for the quarters as a minimum benchmark. Do that next season and I'll be happy and see that as continued progress.

Definitely realistic to win the league next year.

We are 2-3 signings off winning the league and/or really challenging and putting up a fight. We're 9 points off 80 as it is, there's quite a few games that we lost/drew when we should've won, the Everton game definitely springs to mind for that! There's your 80 points and that's with an injured Pogba for most of the season!

There's every reason to believe we'll be challenging next year.....with a few signings. That's the key.

 

[UnitedSofa]

The key word here is credentials. By hiring Pep everyone knew what they were getting, instead a club the size of Man United took the risk for hiring an unproven coach. That noone knows if he can win trophies consistently. And by most fans we can't win the league or play great football until we have the best and most expensive squad.

Why not hire a coach that can compete with Pep and Klopp and has some actual credentials that can prove this. Improving every year by 5 points is progress but not something that we must hold on to and keep renewing his contract. With this rate we'll be lifting the league in 20 years time.

Even though he's earned his 3rd season, I can't help but feel that next year we'll be struggling for 5th or 6th.

Also we must win the Europa league, if not then serious questions need to be asked. The amount of times we bottled a competition is staggering

Just WHY?! There's no reason to believe we'd have such a downwards trajectory. Such a ridiculous statement to make.

We're close to winning the league than we are just hitting a major freefall in progression. Makes no sense.

 

[youngrell]

The key word here is credentials. By hiring Pep everyone knew what they were getting, instead a club the size of Man United took the risk for hiring an unproven coach. That noone knows if he can win trophies consistently. And by most fans we can't win the league or play great football until we have the best and most expensive squad.

Why not hire a coach that can compete with Pep and Klopp and has some actual credentials that can prove this. Improving every year by 5 points is progress but not something that we must hold on to and keep renewing his contract. With this rate we'll be lifting the league in 20 years time.

Even though he's earned his 3rd season, I can't help but feel that next year we'll be struggling for 5th or 6th.

Also we must win the Europa league, if not then serious questions need to be asked. The amount of times we bottled a competition is staggering

You keep missing the point. City already have the best coach AND the best squad AND the most money to spend. The odds are well and truly stacked against whoever we appoint, so I imagine we'd be having the very same conversations no matter who it is.

Ole has already closed the gap a little and has shown that he can match up to these managers when they face-off, so there is certainly room for optimism should he be able to build up the squad to something resembling the strength of the opponent.

It is completely insane to acknowledge that the opponent has the upper hand in almost every department and simultaneously expect us to over take them.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Jose Mourinho is a short term manager. He didn’t leave shit.
He hardly leaves anything at his clubs post his management arguably except At Chelsea. The fact his third season was not 2nd but 7th highlighted this.

to be fair to Jose, he also left a very strong team when he departed Madrid in 2013, they had Casillas, Ramos, Marcelo, Varane, Modric, Kroos, Di Maria, CR7, Benzema (Madrid signed Bale, Carvajal, Isoc & Casmeiro after Jose's departure).

But I agree with your assessment that Jose is focused on immediate success, hence his short term planning, which negatively impacted Inter & Manchester

 

[RedSky]

Definitely realistic to win the league next year.

We are 2-3 signings off winning the league and/or really challenging and putting up a fight. We're 9 points off 80 as it is, there's quite a few games that we lost/drew when we should've won, the Everton game definitely springs to mind for that! There's your 80 points and that's with an injured Pogba for most of the season!

There's every reason to believe we'll be challenging next year.....with a few signings. That's the key.

I just don't see it because City this season have been without a CF all year and still got above 80 points. You know full well that they'll sign at least 1 if not 2 new CFs and that will push their points total up even further. We certainly have the potential next season of hitting 80-85 points, but I just look at City and they're a CF away from being back close to the 90+ point marker. Gündogan is their top scorer this season with 13 goals. Pogbas only missed 8 PL games with injury, one of Oles strengths is having fixed our injury issues, props to him and the medical team.

It's why I think automatically assuming we should be winning the title next season as a benchmark is a little unrealistic. Challenge for the title is fair, but winning it out right just seems utterly naïve.

 

[padzilla]

He has taken us back to around the same level that Mourinho did before it imploded in his third season. That is not exactly incredible progress but it's a start. Realistically this summer will be the acid test if the club wants to go on and win the league, which will require seriously investment on at least three to four players in key positions good enough to slot straight into the first team. Instead I suspect we will sign maybe one and renew contracts for several squad players who just are not good enough. The doomsday scenario is not addressing the central defensive / defensive midfield situation and going into next season with Lindelof McT and Fred starting key games for us and our midfield being out of balance because the defence is so vulnerable and not having a natural DM to play in the holding position by himself. If the club even pretends bringing the likes of Lingard back into the fold while renewing Mata's contract is a positive step then we know once and for all they are taking the piss. City were ruthless to let Auguero go because they know that's a winning mentality whereas with us we are constantly rewarding mediocrity.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

It was obvious from the Liverpool fixture being cancelled that we were going to limp to the finish. All eyes on the EL final lets hope we don't pick up any more injuries.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

The team he took over was 2nd in the league 5 months before his arrival.
Anyhow, it is not important now. What is important now is to win the league next season. If he cant promise fighting for the league (as Liverpool did in two seasons) then he is not worth the wait.

Genuine question, what if the club does not back him with the right players? is it fair to expect a league challenge from Ole & the team?

This year, we draw too many easy games and our home form is disastrous, even with an unbeaten away record, i still think we dropped too many easy points, so, could we expect from the current squad to compete next season? (assuming everyone stays and everyone is healthy)

 

[anant]

I really think people over here underestimate how difficult it is to finish in top 4 in PL. I know that is not our end objective and ofcourse no one is going to be happy with another season of just top 4.

And before people start going, "Oh, my standards are higher than yours" and "The problem has been that our standards have lowered" and all that BS, take a moment and let me know 1 manager in PL in the past 10 years (2010-11 season onwards as that's when City became this force) who has finished in top 4 in 2 different seasons (consecutively maybe twice in 3 years) who you think did not win a title/ was not capable of winning a PL.

 

[Cast5]

The team he took over was 2nd in the league 5 months before his arrival.
Anyhow, it is not important now. What is important now is to win the league next season. If he cant promise fighting for the league (as Liverpool did in two seasons) then he is not worth the wait.

The team he took over was a toxic mess.

 

[rotherham_red]

- Ole is the only manager post Fergie who has shown a consistent upwards trajectory.
- He's the only manager to not finish outside the top 4 when given a full season.
- He's the only manager capable of getting his players to give 100%(provided there is something to play for).
- He's instilled a never-say-die attitude unlike anything we've seen post Fergie. Our comeback ability is unmatched.
- He's a damn rock in the media. Practically always says the right things.
- His rebuild is way better than Van Gaal's and Mourinho's.

Another point that requires more attention: adjusted for football market inflation*, he's probably probably spent significantly less money than Van Gaal and Mourinho.

* Something happened in the transfer market around 2017/2018. Prices suddenly got insane. Shaw and Wan Bissaka are practically the "same" signing, yet the latter cost almost twice as much. A player like Maguire would cost maybe 40 million in 2016. And imagine what 23 year old superstar Pogba would have cost in this market. 80 million would be considered robbery! Dortmund wanted 120 million for Sancho, for feck's sake!

Truth be told, Ole has been operating under a much tighter budget than his predecessors if you consider how crazy the market has become.

He absolutely has. It's why I keep banging on about it repeatedly. Ole has not been backed to anywhere near the same extent as Jose and LvG before him. He has had to contend with subpar support from those above him and he still somehow made it work. He deserves immense credit for that but will likely never get it.

 

[wolvored]

Ole will be here next season no matter how the season ends. He has to make a proper challenge next season for the title and champions league to improve further. He knows some of these players are not good enough to do that and will probably have a 1,2,3 in positions he wants. I expect the glazers will back him after what has gone on to appease the fans. He will succeed or fail on the next season. If we are no better than we are now he should be sacked. I hope he succeeds but im 50/50 on whether this will happen.

 

[rotherham_red]

He has taken us back to around the same level that Mourinho did before it imploded in his third season. That is not exactly incredible progress but it's a start. Realistically this summer will be the acid test if the club wants to go on and win the league, which will require seriously investment on at least three to four players in key positions good enough to slot straight into the first team. Instead I suspect we will sign maybe one and renew contracts for several squad players who just are not good enough. The doomsday scenario is not addressing the central defensive / defensive midfield situation and going into next season with Lindelof McT and Fred starting key games for us and our midfield being out of balance because the defence is so vulnerable and not having a natural DM to play in the holding position by himself. If the club even pretends bringing the likes of Lingard back into the fold while renewing Mata's contract is a positive step then we know once and for all they are taking the piss. City were ruthless to let Auguero go because they know that's a winning mentality whereas with us we are constantly rewarding mediocrity.

Considering it was you who came up with this thread last year:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/eight-games-away-from-another-disastrous-season-under-ole.455231/

I'm surprised you're so circumspect in your evaluation of the progress, considering just one year ago, we were supposedly teetering on the brink of disaster? Something not adding up here, I wonder what it could be...