Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[AshRK]

Considering it was you who came up with this thread last year:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/eight-games-away-from-another-disastrous-season-under-ole.455231/

I'm surprised you're so circumspect in your evaluation of the progress, considering just one year ago, we were supposedly teetering on the brink of disaster? Something not adding up here, I wonder what it could be...

Isn't it funny. First they predict a disaster of a season and when we finish well they change the goalpost. I remember when the window shut down in october many predicted us to finish below top 4 and some even outside top 6 but now they are again using the points metric.

I am disappointed with how we are ending our season in the league campaign but after the villa game all the remaining league games became meaningless.

 

[rotherham_red]

Stopped reading at “obviously not good enough”

Despite leading us to a 2nd place finish (all but 2nd place) and a deficit of 12 points compared to 33 point difference between top and us last year. But yeah “not good enough eh



We were arguably the most inform team in the league before the Liverpool game got called off!

When Chelsea "won the transfer window" and Liverpool bought Thiago, I'm sure that guy was expecting a Utd team who had bought almost no one to fix any of the longstanding issues they had to finish above those teams

 

[OleBoiii]

He absolutely has. It's why I keep banging on about it repeatedly. Ole has not been backed to anywhere near the same extent as Jose and LvG before him. He has had to contend with subpar support from those above him and he still somehow made it work. He deserves immense credit for that but will likely never get it.

That's because his critics purposely choose to look past context and the deeper meaning behind the numbers to suit their agenda.

Ole has finished 3rd and 2nd in his first two attempts, which is way better than his predecessors? Ok, let's ignore league position entirely and focus on points(as if that matters nearly as much).
Ole's rebuild is going better than his predecessors? Ok, let's look at his net spend and completely forget that the market has gone insane and certain player prices have doubled in the span of just 2-3 years.

If we ever win the PL and fail to defend the title, I guarantee you that the same posters will want him out immediately and claim that the title was just a fluke.

 

[Mickson]

He absolutely has. It's why I keep banging on about it repeatedly. Ole has not been backed to anywhere near the same extent as Jose and LvG before him. He has had to contend with subpar support from those above him and he still somehow made it work. He deserves immense credit for that but will likely never get it.

Maguire for £80m, AWB for £50m, Fernandes for £50m, VdB for £45m, Telles for £20m, James for £20m, Cavani on big wages among other players. He has been backed PLENTY. FYI, somewhere in Liverpool sits Klopp and complains that he didn't get Reus or someone like that. You can't get everything you want, which we know with Pep too since we snapped Maguire and Fred from his hands (and Sanchez too). Ole is no victim, we can't feel sorry for him. The important thing is what you do with the money, and I don't trust United for one bit there. The only signings I think have been working out great are Bruno and Cavani. Maguire to a point although we splashed way too much of our budget on him.

 

[rotherham_red]

Maguire for £80m, AWB for £50m, Fernandes for £50m, VdB for £45m, Telles for £20m, James for £20m, Cavani on big wages among other players. He has been backed PLENTY. FYI, somewhere in Liverpool sits Klopp and complains that he didn't get Reus or someone like that. You can't get everything you want, which we know with Pep too since we snapped Maguire and Fred from his hands (and Sanchez too). Ole is no victim, we can't feel sorry for him. The important thing is what you do with the money, and I don't trust United for one bit there. The only signings I think has been working our great is Bruno and Cavani. Maguire to a point although we splashed way too much of our budget on him.

again,. read @OleBoiii's post. And your figures are way off for VDB, Telles, and James, and Bruno too.

 

[rotherham_red]

That's because his critics purposely choose to look past context and the deeper meaning behind the numbers to suit their agenda.

Ole has finished 3rd and 2nd in his first two attempts, which is way better than his predecessors? Ok, let's ignore league position entirely and focus on points(as if that matters nearly as much).
Ole's rebuild is going better than his predecessors? Ok, let's look at his net spend and completely forget that the market has gone insane and certain player prices have doubled in the span of just 2-3 years.

If we ever win the PL and fail to defend the title, I guarantee you that the same posters will want him out immediately and claim that the title was just a fluke.

Yep, and just like that, Mickson comes in and proves your point

 

[pierrethesnack]

Considering it was you who came up with this thread last year:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/eight-games-away-from-another-disastrous-season-under-ole.455231/

I'm surprised you're so circumspect in your evaluation of the progress, considering just one year ago, we were supposedly teetering on the brink of disaster? Something not adding up here, I wonder what it could be...

 

[Mickson]

again,. read @OleBoiii's post. And your figures are way off for VDB, Telles, and James, and Bruno too.

Way off? Okay, I just looked up Bruno, he cost £47M. Big difference... I read his post, I don't see what that has to do with much. Am I impressed with what Ole has done? Not really. He is the manager of the biggest club in the world. Has he done a decent job? Yes, to some extent, but he and someone else could do it better, no doubt. I'm not impressed by his signings and why should I be? No top manager would buy James or AWB, and for that money it's crazy. Telles is a really mediocre player too and Ole doesn't seem to have ANY idea whatsoever for VdB. What's to be impressed by, in the biggest club in the world? We are not Bolton. If he wins the league, I will be impressed. If he buys a good player, I will be impressed (like with Bruno and Cavani) but if he isn't, why would I be impressed? There's some crazy talk that "we would not give him credit if he won the league". He's not going to, but if he would, then yes, I would be impressed. To summarize: Ole has done a decent job with some things, and especially some managerial things like happiness in the squad, morale, and stabilized the club. I think he has done a pretty good job with transfers out too. But his coaching is not going to take us places. That's why we have this discussion. I don't think Liverpool had it after Klopp's impressive team play when Liverpool dominated almost all games (but didn't get the points all the time). If Ole would show that style of play, that type of dominance, then I would be more hopeful. I think we are a really dull team with some tactical weaknesses. Add to that our transfer dealings, which I talked about earlier.

 

[romufc]

Maguire for £80m, AWB for £50m, Fernandes for £50m, VdB for £45m, Telles for £20m, James for £20m, Cavani on big wages among other players. He has been backed PLENTY. FYI, somewhere in Liverpool sits Klopp and complains that he didn't get Reus or someone like that. You can't get everything you want, which we know with Pep too since we snapped Maguire and Fred from his hands (and Sanchez too). Ole is no victim, we can't feel sorry for him. The important thing is what you do with the money, and I don't trust United for one bit there. The only signings I think have been working out great are Bruno and Cavani. Maguire to a point although we splashed way too much of our budget on him.

Firstly, I like the fact you use figures to aid your point. Telles was £13m and Donny was £35m but thats fine, you need to make it look the sums look bigger.

Net spend -

LVG - 181m
Jose - 310m
Ole - 189m

You can talk about Cavani's wages but don't forget Jose got Zlatan and Alexis.

You can talk about signings that worked or not but if you look at it Ole's signings have had more of an impact.
Bruno - Starter
Maguire - Starter
AWB - Starter

When he spends big, they all go into the first 11.

LVG on the other hand, sold Di Maria after a year
Jose didnt even use Sanchez, fell out with Pogba, didnt trust Fred, dalot, Lindelof, Sold Mikhi.

 

[Mickson]

Firstly, I like the fact you use figures to aid your point. Telles was £13m and Donny was £35m but thats fine, you need to make it look the sums look bigger.

Net spend -

LVG - 181m
Jose - 310m
Ole - 189m

You can talk about Cavani's wages but don't forget Jose got Zlatan and Alexis.

You can talk about signings that worked or not but if you look at it Ole's signings have had more of an impact.
Bruno - Starter
Maguire - Starter
AWB - Starter

When he spends big, they all go into the first 11.

LVG on the other hand, sold Di Maria after a year
Jose didnt even use Sanchez, fell out with Pogba, didnt trust Fred, dalot, Lindelof, Sold Mikhi.

I just took the numbers out of my head, I didn't look them up so you are probably right. That was not really my point though. I'm not trying to say that he spent more than Mourinho or LvG, I just said that he has been backed, plenty in fact.

 

[rotherham_red]

Way off? Okay, I just looked up Bruno, he cost £47M. Big difference... I read his post, I don't see what that has to do with much. Am I impressed with what Ole has done? Not really. He is the manager of the biggest club in the world. Has he done a decent job? Yes, to some extent, but he and someone else could do it better, no doubt. I'm not impressed by his signings and why should I be? No top manager would buy James or AWB, and for that money it's crazy. Telles is a really mediocre player too and Ole doesn't seem to have ANY idea whatsoever for VdB. What's to be impressed by, in the biggest club in the world? We are not Bolton. If he wins the league, I will be impressed. If he buys a good player, I will be impressed (like with Bruno and Cavani) but if he isn't, why would I be impressed? There's some crazy talk that "we would not give him credit if he won the league". He's not going to, but if he would, then yes, I would be impressed. To summarize: Ole has done a decent job with some things, and especially some managerial things like happiness in the squad, morale, and stabilized the club. I think he has done a pretty good job with transfers out too. But his coaching is not going to take us places. That's why we have this discussion. I don't think Liverpool had it after Klopp's impressive team play when Liverpool dominated almost all games (but didn't get the points all the time). If Ole would show that style of play, that type of dominance, then I would be more hopeful. I think we are a really dull team with some tactical weaknesses. Add to that our transfer dealings, which I talked about earlier.

Telles 13.6m. VdB 34m, James 15m...

 

[rotherham_red]

I just took the numbers out of my head, I didn't look them up so you are probably right. That was not really my point though. I'm not trying to say that he spent more than Mourinho or LvG, I just said that he has been backed, plenty in fact.

Learn about inflation and then come back to me please

 

[AshRK]

Way off? Okay, I just looked up Bruno, he cost £47M. Big difference... I read his post, I don't see what that has to do with much. Am I impressed with what Ole has done? Not really. He is the manager of the biggest club in the world. Has he done a decent job? Yes, to some extent, but he and someone else could do it better, no doubt. I'm not impressed by his signings and why should I be? No top manager would buy James or AWB, and for that money it's crazy. Telles is a really mediocre player too and Ole doesn't seem to have ANY idea whatsoever for VdB. What's to be impressed by, in the biggest club in the world? We are not Bolton. If he wins the league, I will be impressed. If he buys a good player, I will be impressed (like with Bruno and Cavani) but if he isn't, why would I be impressed? There's some crazy talk that "we would not give him credit if he won the league". He's not going to, but if he would, then yes, I would be impressed. To summarize: Ole has done a decent job with some things, and especially some managerial things like happiness in the squad, morale, and stabilized the club. I think he has done a pretty good job with transfers out too. But his coaching is not going to take us places. That's why we have this discussion. I don't think Liverpool had it after Klopp's impressive team play when Liverpool dominated almost all games (but didn't get the points all the time). If Ole would show that style of play, that type of dominance, then I would be more hopeful. I think we are a really dull team with some tactical weaknesses. Add to that our transfer dealings, which I talked about earlier.

See your expectations are way over the top. You expect all the transfer signings to be 10/10, doesn't happen with Pep or Klopp either. You want us to win the league this season when this squad was never going to win, also confirmed with most of our predictions prior to the season began. You say we are not Bolton, where have we acted like Bolton. You acting like Ole is managing like Arteta where we are 9th and are happy. We are 2nd and that too have been in that position since January. Yes that is not saying we should celebrate and to be fair no one here is celebrating but the fact that when people like you act as if we were winning league title after league title before Ole took over and finishing 2nd this season is a failure is funny.

 

[romufc]

I just took the numbers out of my head, I didn't look them up so you are probably right. That was not really my point though. I'm not trying to say that he spent more than Mourinho or LvG, I just said that he has been backed, plenty in fact.

I am sure you know what it takes to win the league now?

£190m in 2 seasons is an average of £95m a year.

To put things into context City spent £365m in Pep's first two seasons.
Liverpool done very well to sell coutinho and have a positive net spend but that didnt stop them, the summer after they went and spent £163m because they knew they needed a GK and DM.

Chelsea spent £200m net last summer, I am sure they would spend similar amounts if required

Now, lets see 3 other clubs spending in the last 2 years since Ole's first window

Arsenal - £161m
Villa - £230m
Spurs - £163m

£80-90m a year gets you in line with teams in mid table, to be able to compete for the title, it is clear we need to spend alot more.

 

[Adnan]

Imo its both. If we had prime Carrick (or Scholes) in midfield alongside Fred i am confident we would have been much, much better at playing out the back. It would make us better at beating the high press and it would also mean we could get much more variety in our build up play. Lindelof and Maguire are ok at hitting those long balls into space for Greenwood/Rashford, but having a player who are consistently able to find those runs with the ball are going to make a world of difference

I also think a RW(Sancho) is a necessity. Our attack is way to loopsided right now which means teams who want to shut us out can pack the center and tell their RW to stay deep so they can double up on the left side and shut out Shaw and Rashford/Pogba. Having a another creative outlet on the right means they have to spread out more or risk Sancho tearing them apart from the right

I know getting Sancho + the next Carrick is a tall order and probably impossible in this climate

The problem is the opposition have on a number of occassions blocked the passing lanes to the forwards which is the problem. The opposition want the likes of McTominay, Fred and AWB to have the ball in the first phase of the build up. And there-in lies the problem, which isolates the forwards and means less passing options IMO.

Sancho is at a club who transition play better than us, where each player in attack has extra passing options due to the volume of players they commit forward. Take Sancho for example, when he was deployed as a inside forward on the right in the 19/20 season, where he was in a partnership with Hakimi who was providing the width on the right, but also had Axel Witsel or on occassions Dahoud to play on the right side . So the game against Spurs in the UCL in 2019, where Dortmund won 3-0, Sancho had Hakimi and Dahoud on his right flank providing the width to a high level(Hakimi) and also providing the extra pass option in the half space (Dahoud) which allows Sancho to thrive. Now compare those players with AWB and McTominay who are both technically inferior in comparison on the right side when it comes to transitioning play. So throwing Sancho in on the right with our current starting RB and RCM won't see the desired results unless at least one of the positions is upgraded, which is likely gonna be the midfield due to the money spent on AWB.

 

[Mickson]

Learn about inflation and then come back to me please

So Ole hasn't been backed? Name two clubs who have spent more money during Ole's time here.

 

[Robbie Boy]

@rotherham_red picking fights with the use of condescending, deflecting bollox, with anyone who dares to share a contrasting opinion to his own.

Quite the 'character' indeed.

*pretends to be shocked*

 

[VP89]

I am sure you know what it takes to win the league now?

£190m in 2 seasons is an average of £95m a year.

To put things into context City spent £365m in Pep's first two seasons.
Liverpool done very well to sell coutinho and have a positive net spend but that didnt stop them, the summer after they went and spent £163m because they knew they needed a GK and DM.

Chelsea spent £200m net last summer, I am sure they would spend similar amounts if required

Now, lets see 3 other clubs spending in the last 2 years since Ole's first window

Arsenal - £161m
Villa - £230m
Spurs - £163m

£80-90m a year gets you in line with teams in mid table, to be able to compete for the title, it is clear we need to spend alot more.

We need to spend smart. Not just go "blarghh we need moar money".

 

[united_99]

I have made my calculations using the Essien calculator and some muppet imagination

We raise around 100 mil by selling:
- Pogba (to PSG or RM)
- Mata on a free but wages saved
- Lingard
- James
- Matic
- Bailly (pls Jose, take him)

We sign:
- Sancho
- Rice
- Torres or Varane

Donny to step up and rotate with Bruno, Rice and McFred. We would challenge for the league I believe if the above happened.

(Back to reality we will probably chase Kane the entire summer, then won’t sign him anyway and just make some last minute underwhelming signing instead.)

 

[Ali Dia]

We need to spend smart. Not just go "blarghh we need moar money".

Yup. We let them get too far ahead organisationally to just decide to outspend them one day and that’ll be enough. We need to be adding the right 2/3 players every season and sometimes some of them wont work out. It’s slow but it’s the responsible way to do it when you don’t have infinite cash to fix mistakes

 

[romufc]

We need to spend smart. Not just go "blarghh we need moar money".

Agreed, we need to make smarter transfer choices.

I think we have been better recently, which is why I do not think we will go for Kane.

Some of the rumours of the players we are linked with suggest the same. Sancho is a long term target, CB and CDM we have seen links with lesser known players. I will not be opposed to getting Sancho and spending £60m combined for a CB and CDM

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

What a poor ending for us. Does not matter much for us apart from failure to stop Liverpool which sucked, but we need to win the final.

Not sure what Ole plans to do? Rest players or go strong vs Wolves?

 

[rotherham_red]

@rotherham_red picking fights with the use of condescending, deflecting bollox, with anyone who dares to share a contrasting opinion to his own.

Quite the 'character' indeed.

*pretends to be shocked*

Aw is someone still sore from when @golden_blunder had to put them in their place?

Diddums

 

[He'sRaldo]

I don't buy the spending argument.

1) We've spent a lot of money under Ole, on occasion even beating out City (in fact we've beat out City pretty much every time we compete for a player).

2) We of all clubs should know better than anyone that just spending huge sums and splashing cash around isn't a guarantee of anything. For instance we've signed 90M Pogba, 80M Maguire, 80M Lukaku, 50M Fred, 50M AWB, 40M Donny etc and none have reached the level of our rivals' players.

3) Even if we didn't spend the absolute most money in the league and have the best first 11 and best squad, other teams and managers have shown that you can win vs City without doing all that.

The way some people go on about it, it seems we're just hoping to cheque-book Ole to success. I too would love to have the best super squad in the league, but we must be realistic and realize that the probability of that happening is not high. Not because we don't spend huge sums of money, but because our recruitment and squad planning has not at the same level as our competition, and more money is not the solution to that.

 

[rotherham_red]

So Ole hasn't been backed? Name two clubs who have spent more money during Ole's time here.

a) learn what inflation means, and b) learn to read, please. Where did I say he wasn't backed? I said he wasn't backed as much as LvG and Jose. Two managers who between them couldn't sustain two top 4 finishes and the messes of whom Ole had to clean up.

 

[Mickson]

a) learn what inflation means, and b) learn to read, please. Where did I say he wasn't backed? I said he wasn't backed as much as LvG and Jose. Two managers who between them couldn't sustain two top 4 finishes and the messes of whom Ole had to clean up.

I don't know why you keep talking about inflation, it has nothing to do with what I'm trying to say. We have spent, plenty, more than 99% av ALL the other teams in the world. He has been backed and has no excuses regarding money spent. If he has spent more or less than Mourinho, I don't care one bit of that. Mourinho wasn't good enough, nor was LvG. Irrelevant comparison.

 

[The Oracle]

So why did Klopp need to spend £75m on a CB and £60m on a keeper? Surely if he is as good as you say he is he should win the league with the squad he had?

I have never seen a manager not rely on individual brilliance. This is why players cost what they do, they can produce magic.

So where has being relentless for 90 mins got Liverpool this season?

Again, acting as if they don't rely on individual brilliance? Salah has scored numerous goals that have come out of nothing.

If you watched us play, there are quite clear patterns of play that you can see he wants us to play, which for most teams that want to win stuff requires good individual players.

You make good points.

Thinking about it, if we had Alisson and Salah in our team, we would be a completely different outfit.

Same if we had De Bruyne in our team etc.

You are right, World class players make a heck of a difference to a team.

Before Liverpool signed Alisson and VVD, they weren't winning anything.

 

[eire-red]

I think Ole has done enough to be fully backed this summer, regardless of the EL final. If we spend well on a CB, CM and the potential acquisition of Sancho (Cavani staying has me believing we won't be signing a CF), then a proper title challenge and going deep into the knockout stages of the CL is minimum requirement for me.

I'll give the team and Ole the benefit of doubt on this tumescent end to the season, given the fixture list, nature of our season as a whole, and having nothing to play for. Let's hope we can turn it on for next week.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Its one of the worst arguments I have ever seen.

There is a reason teams with best players do well. They are individually brilliant. If Pep, Klopp and the like do not rely on individual brilliance, they would not need to spend £100-200m on players, they should be able to win leagues with anyone.

I mean its not like City rely on KDB to unlock a defence or Liverpool rely on their full backs?

It's one of the biggest flawed arguments I have seen, only Manutd fans complain of being second and EL final because they don't like the manager.

Those posters would rather have 11 cloggers working together as a unit, it seems They are probably Jose fans.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Those posters would rather have 11 cloggers working together as a unit, it seems They are probably Jose fans.

It's not an either or Doc. We are man utd and our quality players should work hard and together as a unit.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

It's not an either or Doc. We are man utd and our quality players should work hard and together as a unit.

The key point you make DE is quality players, which we do have. From some posts (not necessarily yours) I do get the feeling that people don't like the fact that some of our players are capable of those moments, which is completely bonkers ridiculous.

That said, one or two do need "upgrading" in that respect. By upgrading I don't mean more skill but things like focus and workrate, which you also allude to above.

 

[Desert Eagle]

The key point you make DE is quality players, which we do have. From some posts (not necessarily yours) I do get the feeling that people don't like the fact that some of our players are capable of those moments, which is completely bonkers ridiculous.

That said, one or two do need "upgrading" in that respect. By upgrading I don't mean more skill but things like focus and workrate, which you also allude to above.

Fair enough. It's probably the difference between those who loved the tiki taka style and those who couldn't stand it. I understand our history at united is more the maverick, risk taker type but we also have to recognize football evolves and it could be argued at the highest level now the consistency gained from being very well drilled is the difference.

 

[Bobcat]

The problem is the opposition have on a number of occassions blocked the passing lanes to the forwards which is the problem. The opposition want the likes of McTominay, Fred and AWB to have the ball in the first phase of the build up. And there-in lies the problem, which isolates the forwards and means less passing options IMO.

Sancho is at a club who transition play better than us, where each player in attack has extra passing options due to the volume of players they commit forward. Take Sancho for example, when he was deployed as a inside forward on the right in the 19/20 season, where he was in a partnership with Hakimi who was providing the width on the right, but also had Axel Witsel or on occassions Dahoud to play on the right side . So the game against Spurs in the UCL in 2019, where Dortmund won 3-0, Sancho had Hakimi and Dahoud on his right flank providing the width to a high level(Hakimi) and also providing the extra pass option in the half space (Dahoud) which allows Sancho to thrive. Now compare those players with AWB and McTominay who are both technically inferior in comparison on the right side when it comes to transitioning play. So throwing Sancho in on the right with our current starting RB and RCM won't see the desired results unless at least one of the positions is upgraded, which is likely gonna be the midfield due to the money spent on AWB.

Maguire and Lindelof are fine in possession, so is AWB really. The problem is that both Fred and McTominay tend to treat the ball like a hot potato at the start of our build up, so unless Bruno drops down to help it, it tend to go out to either wing 9 times out of 10. Adding another attacking threat on the right will also mean (smart) teams will be vary of committing too many players forward in press, since we then can effectively counter them on both wings and through the middle

Cant agree with that bolded part. We are actually quite good on the transition on our day and Dortmund have hardly been very impressive this year

 

[Adnan]

Maguire and Lindelof are fine in possession, so is AWB really. The problem is that both Fred and McTominay tend to treat the ball like a hot potato at the start of our build up, so unless Bruno drops down to help it, it tend to go out to either wing 9 times out of 10. Adding another attacking threat on the right will also mean (smart) teams will be vary of committing too many players forward in press, since we then can effectively counter them on both wings and through the middle

Cant agree with that bolded part. We are actually quite good on the transition on our day and Dortmund have hardly been very impressive this year

Maguire and Lindelof are fine in possession in a deeper block with midfield and fullback cover, hence Solskjaer wanting another CB.

Adding another attacking threat on the right with inferior technical players to Witsel and Hakimi in support isn't gonna provide the platform for Sancho to succeed. Hakimi for example is clearly superior to Wan Bissaka on the ball and the same apllies to Dortmund's right sided midfielders compared to ours.

We transition play in a reactive manner whilst Dortmund have been transitioning play with a higher defensive line in a proactive manner, where they have upto 6 or 7 players involved in the transition. Sancho has better support out wide and better midfield support to create triangles which helps open up space and stretches play.

 

[rotherham_red]

It's not an either or Doc. We are man utd and our quality players should work hard and together as a unit.

I'd argue that we do have a hard working unit of players, and a few of those are quality. The issue we have is that we need a bit more quality. Be it through the players' natural progression and development, or by buying upgrades.

 

[rotherham_red]

Isn't it funny. First they predict a disaster of a season and when we finish well they change the goalpost. I remember when the window shut down in october many predicted us to finish below top 4 and some even outside top 6 but now they are again using the points metric.

I am disappointed with how we are ending our season in the league campaign but after the villa game all the remaining league games became meaningless.

It's the same story, season in and season out under Ole unfortunately. Some people are just desperate to be proven right, no matter what. It's a bit sad when you think about it.

 

[Adnan]

I'd argue that we do have a hard working unit of players, and a few of those are quality. The issue we have is that we need a bit more quality. Be it through the players' natural progression and development, or by buying upgrades.

Agreed. We need upgrades IMO via promoting youth (Hannibal/Garner) or buying a right sided mid if possible.

 

[rotherham_red]

Agreed. We need upgrades IMO via promoting youth (Hannibal/Garner) or buying a right sided mid if possible.

Yeah, though ideally, I'd prefer if we bought someone in to tide us over during this in-between period we have right now as I don't think Hannibal and Garner are going to be ready to be decisive players for us for at least the next season or two. I'd also add Mengi to that list of prospects as well.

I like Fred and McTominay but I think they are squad players in a good Utd team, and that's no shame for them. The value and worth of players like them are accentuated during times of success, just as Fletcher changed his perception among the fans after 2005.

The key for us is to finally give Ole the sort of transfer window that LvG and Jose got. Two genuine first teamers, and I think you'll see the progression from this team come on leaps and bounds, even if one of them is a CB as opposed to a DM which is my preference. And then next summer, get a striker and DM, be that Garner or an experienced player.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I'd argue that we do have a hard working unit of players, and a few of those are quality. The issue we have is that we need a bit more quality. Be it through the players' natural progression and development, or by buying upgrades.

I'd say it's debatable. Bruno, Cavaniand a few others are definitely hard workers but some like Pogba and rashford are not. The unit part is also iffy as our pressing and set piece defending for example is sub par.The player development and you could say optimization is my biggest concern. If Ole is given 100 plus million this summer I hope we stop using the quality players line.

 

[Adnan]

Yeah, though ideally, I'd prefer if we bought someone in to tide us over during this in-between period we have right now as I don't think Hannibal and Garner are going to be ready to be decisive players for us for at least the next season or two. I'd also add Mengi to that list of prospects as well.

I like Fred and McTominay but I think they are squad players in a good Utd team, and that's no shame for them. The value and worth of players like them are accentuated during times of success, just as Fletcher changed his perception among the fans after 2005.

The key for us is to finally give Ole the sort of transfer window that LvG and Jose got. Two genuine first teamers, and I think you'll see the progression from this team come on leaps and bounds, even if one of them is a CB as opposed to a DM which is my preference. And then next summer, get a striker and DM, be that Garner or an experienced player.

Agreed.