Well I wholeheartedly disagree with your outlook. Teams are going to improve every season, unfortunately. So how many years do we do this dance, until Ole has built a team to your satisfaction, while waiting for our rivals to not invest?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
- Status
I think both teams are comparable to us, so I don't think that it's necessarily an obvious failure.
But let's say we finish 4th and there's 10 points or more up to 3rd place. That could be considered an obviously failure, imo. It's all about context.
1st point is subjective. After three years his style of play isn't going to change fyi.
So if Bruno or Pogba get injured for a couple months he's off the hook? You're gonna say he didn't have rashford for the first couple months so next year will be different?
What is do well in europe? Presumably he'll make it out of the groups this time. Quarterfinals of Cl is good?
How many points behind would you be ok with? 11?
There’s nothing wrong with wanting Conte at United, he’s a serial winner.
True. But not everyone is fan of the man himself, his football and his difficult personality.
Yes I’ve said a lot of wild stuff and will continue to for this guy. But the fact of the matter remains he’s a below average manager incharge of an elite club.
Yet you defend Pogba to the death despite him already getting more assists this season in 150 mins than in the entirety of last season's 50 apps.
Ole done ten times more for this club than the dabber has. So is it fair to say you have your favourites too then? Maybe not just Ole is it?
Most of the elite managers can be difficult in one way or another, it is why they are winners. Although Conte does take the biscuit.
First things first, Neville has absolutely no credibility when it comes to assessing managers at United. Especially one who happens to be his mate. He's admitted himself that he would never advocate for sacking a manager, and he also seems very reticent to criticize them too harshly even if it's warranted. As a result, he's incredibly disingenuous with anything he says on the matter. It means nothing.
As for my own views on Ole, I love the guy and think he's done well here, but if I could summarise my opinion on him it would be this: even if he was allowed to buy all the players that he wanted, and had HIS team, I still don't think he'd win the league. So recruitment is not even the issue here when it comes to assessing him for me.
Would love to be wrong, but that's where I stand on it, unfortunately.
As for my own views on Ole, I love the guy and think he's done well here, but if I could summarise my opinion on him it would be this: even if he was allowed to buy all the players that he wanted, and had HIS team, I still don't think he'd win the league. So recruitment is not even the issue here when it comes to assessing him for me.
Would love to be wrong, but that's where I stand on it, unfortunately.
Personally, I'm just not a fan of him or his football. I'm not saying he's not a top manager though, and I fully understand why plenty are huge fans of his.
Is that true?
I find that hard to believe. Obviously, I can only speak for myself here, but I thought the general consensus was that Chelsea had an amazing squad and it was because of Lampard that the team wasn't performing. That squad was/is incredible and it was Frank that was holding them back, not the lack of quality players.
I think you maybe misunderstood. Yes, Lampard was seen as a clown. People rated Chelsea's squad, but quite a-few on here made out we had a better first eleven. No one said they had a bad team, by any means.
Now though, since Tuchel has come in, loads of the pro-Ole group are bigging up Chelsea because they fear we'll finish behind them. The narrative last season certainly wasn't that Chelsea had an absolutely amazing side.
I was thinking about results more than style of play. If we go further down the table and get fewer points than last season then that's obviously really bad.
Nah, every team has injuries. I'm talking about a disaster here. Like Bruno and Rashford both being out for more than half the season, while a couple of other top players(Maguire, Sancho, Varane etc) also have some longer injury spells.
It also depends. If we have a very tough draw, then quarter finals cold be considered good. If we have an easy draw then I can potentially be disappointed with not making the final. It's all relative.
Behind 1st? It also depends. What if the 1st place gets 100 points? What if they get 80?
So basically nothing definite and always with a way to argue out of it. Let's hope he wins a major trophy or the excuses are going to have to get even more creative.
And yet, there's apparently no excuses
I'm curious: why are you so obsessed with making a super-detailed line that must be crossed no matter what? Is it not better to wait and see how things go, look at the context and then make a decision?
Using the power of common sense, it's not that hard to see when a manager has underperformed relative to his team and circumstances. In the case of Ole things are even more simple as he has been given a decent amount of time as well(i.e we can't blame it on lack of data).
But I want shinies!!!!!!!! Give me now, now, NOW!
Any United fans with that attitude have long fecked off to support City or Chelsea ffs
You’d fit right in with that lot to be fair.Any United fans with that attitude have long fecked off to support City or Chelsea ffs
Nah, plenty still here.Any United fans with that attitude have long fecked off to support City or Chelsea ffs
Lets just wait until our new signings are match fit and we have Cavani back in the team before everyone loses their shit over an away draw.
It'd be nice if the board can pull a finger out and actually sign a midfielder though as it's obvious to a significant amount of United fans that we've needed one for a while and we've appartently organised the Varane/Sancho deals to spread out the cost over several seasons so we've actually spent feck all money this Summer in reality. This slow rebuild of 2/3 signings a Summer is incredibly frustrating. But we have more than enough talent in the squad to have a decent season and Ole simply has to target a trophy this year, feck even a League Cup would be a start.
Riiiighhhhhtttt... You'll be promoted in no time with high quality posts like that.
Yup, I expect a good season ahead. The excuses are still absolutely nauseating though.
You'll find that it's actually very hard seeing as most of the forum is divided on whether last season or the season befoer that were failures or not. Going by your metrics of disregarding everything except the PL and the CL. I'd say Ole had a B minus in the league and a D minus in the champions league last year. The line is basically win the league or the CL , maybe settle for an FA cup and being close in the other two. Ole has not shown me anything that makes me believe he can give us that winning edge over our competitors. He will be given this year and possibly even next year but for a lot of the fanbase we are hoping he proves us wrong rather than thinking he will.
That's the line huh?Like I said: using the power of common sense 
Right. Well, I don't think I misunderstood, I think I just disagree with your assertion.
Anyway, what is true is that Tuchel has come in and been transformative for Chelsea. Quite extraordinary how instant it has been, as well. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that it was evident from his first game in charge what he was about. Which goes to show the impact a world-class coach can have on a team.
And you, if ever get promoted, you gonna fit right in with a special bunch on CAF.
Yeah because he’s top5 best players in world football. Ole probably isn’t even the best coach in Norway.
I think you kind of did misunderstand... Have a look at previous posts in here echoing what I said. Hell, have a long read through Chelsea's thread from last season and you'll see plenty didn't think they were all that. Sure plenty on here made out their CL win was lucky or whatever. The narrative regarding Chelsea has most certainly shifted whether you agree or not.
Agree with your second paragraph.
That sentence had a comma btw but can't expect those arguing in bad faith to highlight a complete sentence.
After 3.5 years in charge and spending 300 plus million I stick by what i posted. What's so funny about it?
I just see a team that plays outdated football. Even when we're good, it's still chaotic and disjointed. I've absolutely no doubt that when it really matters we'll come up short. And that's my biggest problem with Ole.
Every win vs City, PSG etc feels like we've done what a plucky midtable team does on occasion. We almost never go toe to toe, we never try to make THEM adjust to us, it's always back foot stuff, always hanging for dear life waiting for a counter. Feels like we're constantly the underdog and under pressure in big games. And it's tiresome.
Funny though, for me at least, there's this aura of imminent collapse around Ole which he always overcomes with a great run of wins. So maybe his specialty, the motivating part, works for him. Hopefully this season as well.
I think he should seriously look at some new coaching additions to maybe replace Carrick and McKenna?
Every win vs City, PSG etc feels like we've done what a plucky midtable team does on occasion. We almost never go toe to toe, we never try to make THEM adjust to us, it's always back foot stuff, always hanging for dear life waiting for a counter. Feels like we're constantly the underdog and under pressure in big games. And it's tiresome.
Funny though, for me at least, there's this aura of imminent collapse around Ole which he always overcomes with a great run of wins. So maybe his specialty, the motivating part, works for him. Hopefully this season as well.
I think he should seriously look at some new coaching additions to maybe replace Carrick and McKenna?
I feel exactly the same. And I’ll reserve judgement until I see how we play with a Sancho and Varane. Varane should theoretically help us push further forward and have the mid closer to attack which should help cohesion and ball retention. Sancho should help us with balance which will make us less predictable and harder to play against. Teams won’t be able to overload their right and that will give us more space. And who knows, maybe all of that will finally mean we don’t have to play two holding mids.
If it still doesn’t work then I’ll be Ole out. Because he has most of a team now. Sure we need a cdm and for sure the club has been crap at moving on players in order to find that. But even then he makes baffling decisions. Why play Lingard for 5 mins risking injury if the only way to get that cdm is to sell him? And by playing him you make him feel like he’s part of your plans, this making him less likely to want to go. It all suggests he wants to keep him. And that’s the most baffling of all.
And why not play Donny with Matic when he’s his best partner and the best at resisting the press and unlocking a low block?
Tired of Oles in game management. It’s really poor.
But if he goes he leaves us in much better shape than when he came here. And for that I thank him.
I hope he gets it together now and properly kicks on.
He would set us back to post Mourinho days after he leaves in a coupe of seasons. It's not worth it
Nope, he's not for me at all.
You could easily beat him with the time in charge and spending stick if all our rivals had been stagnant during that time. The fact of the matter is we've just had our best window in god knows how long but Chelsea, City and to an extent Liverpool have all gone toe to toe with us, so even though we're better on paper as a team, we're probably not better than those comparatively.
If you don't buy big when you can you get left behind, and we're now playing catch up to the oil clubs who stole a march on us last season when we were shopping in the bargain bin section.
Agreed. He would be a terrible fit here.
Agreed, the short term success we had under Mourinho wasn't worth it for the shit we had to put up with the last couple of years. We finally seem to be coming out of the other side of that now. Conte would be a double dose.
Conte is nothing like Jose though. I mean it's not toxic . I don't want him because he would need another transition window to sign players to play 352. We just don't have the players now.
I just think the fit is bad, the players he would want aren't what the fans would want and wouldn't 'fit' the club, ala Lukaku etc. The football would be drab, with no intention of being anything else and at the first sign he isn't going to get a player he wants toys would be thrown out of the pram and he'd hand his notice in. Then we're left with the clean up of that and having to move on a bunch of players the next manager doesn't want.
It's just not worth it.
- Status