Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[tomaldinho1]

This has become Messi v Ronaldo thread mark II of Ole in v Ole out
I genuinely fear what will happen in here if we don't beat Wolves.

 

[Gazza]

It's funny. Before Tuchel took over at Chelsea, everyone here felt we had a better defence and attack than Chelsea. Midfield in the engine room they were ahead and number 10s we were superior. Now, supposedly we've gone back to the narrative of "we need XXXX to compete with Chelsea" despite us having spend 100 million on two excellent players and them having signed a quality 9. The difference is that the same squad of theirs is viewed in a much better light - that's what top managers do. Now Chelsea's awful defence is a strength. Their midfield and possession play is more refined and their attack, while not great prior to Lukaku, got the job done in the CL.

Indeed. About as predictable as the posters who were posting emojis in the Tuchel thread when West Brom spanked them, who are now silent.

 

[AshRK]

Explain what you actually mean so I can respond to you.

Your post suggested LVG should have been given more money when in fact he spent shit load of money. SO why pretend he was working on a limited budget in comparison to Ole or even Jose. All the manager since sir alex retired have spent good amount of money. LvG had his chance and he failed. If Ole finishes outside Top 4 he will also be getting the boot, no different.

 

[Gazza]

Elite players need elite coach. Usually with top coaches, you see what they want to play from the very beginning and then think "wow, this looks really good, imagine what could happen if he had better players available". People call Guardiola a checkbook manager but you can be completely sure that you would immediately recognize his style even if he trained a mid table club. We'll never see it but things like positional play, runs, pressing resistance and so forth don't require world class talent and other coaches have proven that you can implement those basics regardless of the player quality. My impression from watching you play and following your transfer activities in the media is that Solskjaer is a manager, not a coach. He still understands his job as assembling a team and improving the players, not dictating the style and the tactics.

And that's only taking you so far. It will never get the best out of all the players because there's too much randomness and not enough shared purpose in the attacking patterns. If you watch Tuchel, Klopp or Guardiola teams, you see that the goal of the system is too constantly bring players into situations in which they can utilize their strengths. I don't get that feeling from watching you play. I see a team consisting of brillant individuals who play brillantly when all things align and look totally lost the other day.

As a club, you sometimes need to make unpopular and harsh decisions. Right now, there's probably no elite coaching talent available but if this changes, I believe you better not hesitate.

Spot on, this.

 

[AshRK]

This has become Messi v Ronaldo thread mark II of Ole in v Ole out
I genuinely fear what will happen in here if we don't beat Wolves.

It will be a tiring two weeks. I feel constructive criticism should be allowed. Ole is not perfect and should be criticized but to call him names or say he worse than Moyes at United or Lampard or Arteta sounds petty statements. It feels we have fans from both sets who are more interested in being more proven right than have sane discussion.

 

[432JuanMata]

The manager got us 2nd place in the toughest league in the world. Hahahaha. How is that sack worthy?

And the team above us have one of the greatest of all time in charge with a blank cheque book to spend. Get in the real world.

I don’t think most will say he didn’t do well last season in the league I certainly won’t. But I feel that while he has fixed the right areas and got us with a squad that looks the best in years, I feel like some that while he made this team he isn’t capable of taking it and challenging

 

[Gazza]

I think these are the kind of comments that are the reason people (myself) included believe there will always be a constant stream of excuses and moving of goalposts when it comes to Ole. There will literally never be a time where we can fairly judge him with this logic . He will literally need a 23 man squad of hand picked, world class 50 million plus signings.

The idea that this time a year ago Chelsea just needed a centre forward would be disingenuous so why would it be the case now?
You talk about bolstering a strong defence, I don’t remember anybody raving about Chelsea’s defence last year until Tuchel came in. Christensen and Rudiger are regular starters atm. Absolutely nobody was describing these players as being part of an ‘already strong defence’.
The reason you’re saying now it is because of Thomas Tuchel, you just don’t seem to be aware of it.
I also remember talk of Chelsea needing a winger to replace Hazard. They still haven’t replaced him.
Tuchel simply utilised what he had, changed formation and now they don’t need one.

Liverpool you could easily argue need another centre back, a central midfielder to replace Wijnaldum. They’ve arguably needed a number ten for some time and Firmino is another player Liverpool could upgrade on if the funds were there. Luckily they don’t have the funds so won’t be. But it deffo isn’t a “touch here and there”.

And city “might need a striker” is one hell of an understatement. I mean I’ll fall short of feeling sorry for them but you can’t play it down like you have whilst trying to make out it’ll be a huge thing for us next summer. They literally have one senior striker in their books and essentially played without one half of last season and you’ve acknowledge they managed to win the league without it last year but again this is partly due to having a world class manager who adapted and managed without one. We have four senior players on our books capable of playing centre forward.

Id also add if you’re short a centre midfielder and striker it’s probably not a good idea to spend 45 million on an attacking midfielder who you then never use.

This is all true but especially the last point: Ole has been here 3 years and hasn’t signed a central midfielder. It’s been holding us back all throughout that time. That’s just baffling and not really acceptable tbh

 

[Mainoldo]

Your post suggested LVG should have been given more money when in fact he spent shit load of money. SO why pretend he was working on a limited budget in comparison to Ole or even Jose. All the manager since sir alex retired have spent good amount of money. LvG had his chance and he failed. If Ole finishes outside Top 4 he will also be getting the boot, no different.

Think you’ve responded to the wrong guy. I said nothing of the sort. Hence why I asked you to explain it.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It will be a tiring two weeks. I feel constructive criticism should be allowed. Ole is not perfect and should be criticized but to call him names or say he worse than Moyes at United or Lampard or Arteta sounds petty statements. It feels we have fans from both sets who are more interested in being more proven right than have sane discussion.

Yep - as long as it's fair praise or criticism it's cool. If someone has a point, it can be anything as long as they have some reasoning to why they think it.

That's the issue with the caf now, two entrenched sides who stop the rest having a normal debate because one is way to defensive/spends 50% of their time in the Poch thread pointing out his every wrong move and the other giving the impression of wanting United to fail under Ole to prove them right.

 

[Stacks]

It's insane Carragher has a better perspective of what Utd's expectation should be rather than the stream of context and excuses.

Ole - undeniable good jod thus far, no one can take that away from him but he simply needs to deliver that he can improve the quality of the squad from his management and coaching, not by spending more. We need to be contending and dominating our opponents. If we don't get a title or cup at the end of the season, fair enough but nobody can look at Southampton's game and think 'yes this is an anamoly and he dragged them to the best they could be'.

Neville just waffling. So they tried a world class manager so the different approach is give more money and time to an inferior manager and never try a world class manager again? remind me were LVG and Jose world class when we hired them or on their way out? Who are they currently coaching? Neville clearly protecting his mate. Its admirable

 

[Robbie Boy]

I think these are the kind of comments that are the reason people (myself) included believe there will always be a constant stream of excuses and moving of goalposts when it comes to Ole. There will literally never be a time where we can fairly judge him with this logic . He will literally need a 23 man squad of hand picked, world class 50 million plus signings.

The idea that this time a year ago Chelsea just needed a centre forward would be disingenuous so why would it be the case now?
You talk about bolstering a strong defence, I don’t remember anybody raving about Chelsea’s defence last year until Tuchel came in. Christensen and Rudiger are regular starters atm. Absolutely nobody was describing these players as being part of an ‘already strong defence’.
The reason you’re saying now it is because of Thomas Tuchel, you just don’t seem to be aware of it.
I also remember talk of Chelsea needing a winger to replace Hazard. They still haven’t replaced him.
Tuchel simply utilised what he had, changed formation and now they don’t need one.

Liverpool you could easily argue need another centre back, a central midfielder to replace Wijnaldum. They’ve arguably needed a number ten for some time and Firmino is another player Liverpool could upgrade on if the funds were there. Luckily they don’t have the funds so won’t be. But it deffo isn’t a “touch here and there”.

And city “might need a striker” is one hell of an understatement. I mean I’ll fall short of feeling sorry for them but you can’t play it down like you have whilst trying to make out it’ll be a huge thing for us next summer. They literally have one senior striker in their books and essentially played without one half of last season and you’ve acknowledge they managed to win the league without it last year but again this is partly due to having a world class manager who adapted and managed without one. We have four senior players on our books capable of playing centre forward.

Id also add if you’re short a centre midfielder and striker it’s probably not a good idea to spend 45 million on an attacking midfielder who you then never use.

Yup, good post. The shifting of goal posts is amazing. I honestly thought this was the season the excuses would stop, but I guess I was wrong.

I'm still on board with Ole though. I think we'll have a very good season, but if we have a mare, it's time to say good riddance. A title challenge is a fair expectation, and despite the poor display on Saturday, I reckon we'll be there or thereabouts.

 

[Kiwi Man]

I like Ole and think he's a very good man manager. Is he the person that's going to get United back to the top? I don't think so.

This may be an unpopular opinion but I would rather have Moyes over Ole. A lot more more astute tactically and knows how to get the best out of the players at his disposal. I don't mark him down for his period at United. Taking over SAF was a poisoned chalice- Klopp, Pep would have struggled with that side and the expectation to get the best out of them like SAF did.

 

[croadyman]

G Nev should just avoid United related questions. The simple answer to Carragher's point (which is fair) is just to say it's been two games & we're sure United will be in the running this season (which is true, I hope), not to launch into a defensive speech which is so easily picked apart, it just makes him seem biased. Ole has had time, he has had money, this is the season we need to see the progress in the tangible form of challenging for major honours.

Yeah that's exactly what he should have said rather than resorting to defending Ole's honour with all his might

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think these are the kind of comments that are the reason people (myself) included believe there will always be a constant stream of excuses and moving of goalposts when it comes to Ole. There will literally never be a time where we can fairly judge him with this logic . He will literally need a 23 man squad of hand picked, world class 50 million plus signings.

The idea that this time a year ago Chelsea just needed a centre forward would be disingenuous so why would it be the case now?
You talk about bolstering a strong defence, I don’t remember anybody raving about Chelsea’s defence last year until Tuchel came in. Christensen and Rudiger are regular starters atm. Absolutely nobody was describing these players as being part of an ‘already strong defence’.
The reason you’re saying now it is because of Thomas Tuchel, you just don’t seem to be aware of it.
I also remember talk of Chelsea needing a winger to replace Hazard. They still haven’t replaced him.
Tuchel simply utilised what he had, changed formation and now they don’t need one.

Liverpool you could easily argue need another centre back, a central midfielder to replace Wijnaldum. They’ve arguably needed a number ten for some time and Firmino is another player Liverpool could upgrade on if the funds were there. Luckily they don’t have the funds so won’t be. But it deffo isn’t a “touch here and there”.

And city “might need a striker” is one hell of an understatement. I mean I’ll fall short of feeling sorry for them but you can’t play it down like you have whilst trying to make out it’ll be a huge thing for us next summer. They literally have one senior striker in their books and essentially played without one half of last season and you’ve acknowledge they managed to win the league without it last year but again this is partly due to having a world class manager who adapted and managed without one. We have four senior players on our books capable of playing centre forward.

Id also add if you’re short a centre midfielder and striker it’s probably not a good idea to spend 45 million on an attacking midfielder who you then never use.

Good post.

Depressing but good.

The whole “we only need one or two more signings” rhetoric is depressing and exactly what we heard from Liverpool fans for decades. All of the really top managers have an uncanny knack of finding solutions from within. Either moulding youngsters into quality first team regulars or taking players that have previously been written off and rejuvenating their career.

If you ever find yourself trying to argue that success is only possible by buying a new player to replace every under-performer then it’s a sure sign that a better manager would get more out of the squad than the current one.

 

[R'hllor]

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This is what I mean when I say every result that isn't a win is the signal for a meltdown on here. I've never seen anything like it. Every win is just a stay of execution and every draw (never mind a loss) is seen as proof positive of his apparent failure.

At this point I'm just tired of having to discuss it time and time again. I thank God the club don't have such a myopic view of the situation and the team are secure in the knowledge that they can continue to progress and build towards success.

Yea thank God the club dont have such view, i mean why should they, success in their eyes aint the same thing as in majority of the fans i believe.

 

[Bastian]

Wasn't comparing them as coaches. Ole is a club legend like Wenger is for them. Different reasons but still legends.

Ole isn't doing a bad job either. Are we now the club who sacks manager for coming 2nd? Deary me.

Nice framing.

 

[R'hllor]

Why do you criticize players then? Why don't you grow a pair and support every player? Show support to Martial or James or Matic or Fred. What is the difference?
I would really want to get an answer why is allowed to criticize players and call for their selling (so in other words sacking) but for manager it is disgrace.

Martial and Fred are totally bashed last few days. Lets support them. Why to sign defensive midfielder? We have Fred. Have faith in Fred. Give time to Fred. Support Fred.

Because that type of posters are just fake double standards feckers who wants to present themself as true supporters on this forum, acting supportive, while calling others moaners, drama queens, glory hunters and my favorite, telling them to go and support some other team, in reality they support personel that they like and if among those people is man in charge, every single player that makes the boss look bad or is used against the boss, can get fecked.

There are so many examples, ever since JM days as United manager. Bunch of hipocrits nothing else.

 

[passing-wind]

The same question is coming up with Ole irrespective of those who support him, or the media or the pundits and it's his development with coaching the team. The team still lacks an identity which is causing the poor cohesion in areas such as possession play, build up phases and consistency in performance.

Ole shouldn't be sacked (out of the question) but what is the club's expectation ? He can't continue to spend millions and remain in the top four as a nominal achievement. 85-90 points should be the club's target if we are to assess the manager actually improving the team as more quality is added. Once Rashford is back the club is only maybe a midfielder away from being at a peak concerning new signings making a significant difference. Much like how City are now and Madrid having been under the earlier years of Zidane's tenure.

The club (near future) is getting to a point where signings will begin to retract due to the strength of the team and that's when Ole's influence is called into question.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I don’t think most will say he didn’t do well last season in the league I certainly won’t. But I feel that while he has fixed the right areas and got us with a squad that looks the best in years, I feel like some that while he made this team he isn’t capable of taking it and challenging

That's what we will find out this season. He's had enough time and investment now. It's time to kick on and become serious challengers.

 

[croadyman]

Happy to clear up my concerns on him are still there whatever the results, my feelings just gets enhanced a bit more particularly when it's a game we shouldn't be dropping points. The first one is what the hell is going on with Donny because we aren't in a position to just waste money in midfield. The second is why we still only have a finished Matic as our only DM and still he's done nothing about it since taking over the club. The third is not planning ahead and bringing in coaches more inexperienced at this level, particularly when he calls himself a Fergie disciple and he did exactly that when it was needed. I would feel exactly the same about him if I was going to games regularly so not in that keyboard warrior club that non match goers generally get put into by the die hards.

 

[R'hllor]

Ole In/Ole out thing is such a nonsense, i understand there are two extreme sides of lunatics but in general, expressing your issues with certain aspects of Ole as manager aint equal to Ole out, same goes with mentioning names of other managers aint equal to attacking indirectly Ole or wanting them to replace him. Last bit actually created attitude towards other managers calling them hipsters, hell we even had threads how Ole was shitting on them, we all know how that turned out at end.

Hope Ole wins a title this season because its just tiring watching two camps going back and forth in here, rather have all them weirdos on the same side.

 

[Womp]

Best indicator of a team that can win a title is the football being played. Anyone that genuinely watches us play and thinks this is a team coached to the required level to win major honours is kidding themselves imo

 

[432JuanMata]

Best indicator of a team that can win a title is the football being played. Anyone that genuinely watches us play and thinks this is a team coached to the required level to win major honours is kidding themselves imo

Well that’s obvious isn’t it. I said the Leeds match meant nothing in the build up vs Southampton thread. We will best teams like Leeds that play open. I said I wanted to see us against teams sitting deep as like at home last year that was the problem and we failed again.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Nice framing.

It's not nice anything. The guy has improved year upon year. 3rd then 2nd. The squad is looking good. Morale is good. World class players joining.

'fans' just want us to become Chelsea and sack anyone who doesn't come 1st. If that's what you want....go support that plastic club in West London.

 

[Womp]

Well that’s obvious isn’t it. I said the Leeds match meant nothing in the build up vs Southampton thread. We will best teams like Leeds that play open. I said I wanted to see us against teams sitting deep as like at home last year that was the problem and we failed again.

I agree and whilst I agree with the sentiment that he's not a coach and what not, it's still his job as the manager to identify what is holding the team back and implement solutions, with the aim of winning trophies. If he can't identify the issues with the coaching, then he's ultimately still failed, irrespective of if he is actually coaching the team or not

I've just seen the same issues that were prevalent last year. Still cowardice tactics, playing two deep DM's against far inferior sides. Team still looking out of ideas if the opposition can shut down the ability to build up from the back. Still terrible movement off the ball, unorganised pressing. I'm hoping it was just a bad game, but I'm not so sure

 

[R'hllor]

It's not nice anything. The guy has improved year upon year. 3rd then 2nd. The squad is looking good. Morale is good. World class players joining.

'fans' just want us to become Chelsea and sack anyone who doesn't come 1st. If that's what you want....go support that plastic club in West London.

Like a clockwork.

 

[432JuanMata]

It's not nice anything. The guy has improved year upon year. 3rd then 2nd. The squad is looking good. Morale is good. World class players joining.

'fans' just want us to become Chelsea and sack anyone who doesn't come 1st. If that's what you want....go support that plastic club in West London.

While I understand the defending Ole and yes he has improved the squad, most people here are just making posts about genuine concerns which I agree.
Yes he has built a great squad and yes he has took us forward but the question marks is whether he can do anything with what he built.

 

[croadyman]

It's not nice anything. The guy has improved year upon year. 3rd then 2nd. The squad is looking good. Morale is good. World class players joining.

'fans' just want us to become Chelsea and sack anyone who doesn't come 1st. If that's what you want....go support that plastic club in West London.

See this is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the feck off and support another club thing, brutal truth is we wouldn't have improved last year had the scousers not suffered a long term injury to their best player or Chelsea actually pulled the trigger on their "club legend" manager before January. I can admit that he has improved the quality of the squad and the morale around the club but the same problems are still holding him back at this level.

 

[Escobar]

Same issues as last season. And he still does play it too safe and dont change things up.

 

[Andycoleno9]

His biggest flaw is impact on the game. Vs Saints his subs were player for player on same position and without any change in formation or style. Last 20 minutes he just watched how Saints are dominating midfield and his solution was McT. Bloody hell

 

[Bestietom]

Keano and Robbo’s nolonger exist. We just need midfield balance. It’s not about mentality it’s about style of play and at the minute we want to slug fight through all of our games which means we never set a tempo.

As for removing deadwood. Maybe we stop renewing long serving contracts to players like Mata and we remove players on the fence like Lingard etc.

Yes I know Keano's and Robbo's are hard to find now, but I disagree that they don't exist. If we search hard enough with our huge selection of scouts, I am sure we can find a midfield general.
As regards long serving contracts to players. I hope we can rectify this now that Woodward is going and Murtough is in charge. Ridiculous contracts and wages is a huge problem for us when trying to get rid of players and it just has to change.

 

[cyberman]

Same issues as last season. And he still does play it too safe and dont change things up.

Without our new signings being ready just yet and with Rashford, Cavani and Scott out, surely this isnt a surprise?
How could there be improvements?

 

[Mainoldo]

Yes I know Keano's and Robbo's are hard to find now, but I disagree that they don't exist. If we search hard enough with our huge selection of scouts, I am sure we can find a midfield general.
As regards long serving contracts to players. I hope we can rectify this now that Woodward is going and Murtough is in charge. Ridiculous contracts and wages is a huge problem for us when trying to get rid of players and it just has to change.

Well if can’t name a player now it’s probably a good sign they don’t exist. We aren’t a club that is going to sign an unknown gem from amazing scouting and he’ll be as good as Robbo or Ince.

As for contracts. The Dof is in charge now and we are offering Mata a contract, finding it difficult to offload first team players and still giving coaching jobs for the boys. Nothing is changing.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Without our new signings being ready just yet and with Rashford, Cavani and Scott out, surely this isnt a surprise?
How could there be improvements?

They don't understand logic. They are also acting like we lost. 4pts from first 6 is hardly end of the world. City only have 3 ffs.

Fans on here are just so ridiculous. Same people saying we'd be mid table after last year's start and then we were top of league at new year.

 

[Mainoldo]

They don't understand logic. They are also acting like we lost. 4pts from first 6 is hardly end of the world. City only have 3 ffs.

Fans on here are just so ridiculous. Same people saying we'd be mid table after last year's start and then we were top of league at new year.

I think to make things plain and simple. We ain’t winning diddle squat with this manager as he doesn’t have a clue how to in-game manage. Some would say that’s down to his level of managerial ability. “Some would say”

 

[Bestietom]

Well if can’t name a player now it’s probably a good sign they don’t exist. We aren’t a club that is going to sign an unknown gem from amazing scouting and he’ll be as good as Robbo or Ince.

As for contracts. The Dof is in charge now and we are offering Mata a contract, finding it difficult to offload first team players and still giving coaching jobs for the boys. Nothing is changing.

Still don't think it's all doom and gloom. Yes, we need to get a few things right, but moving on Woodward who know nothing about the football side of things is 1 good move. I would be happy with a Top midfielder before deadline, and see how close we are by Christmas then.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Ole isn't a championship winning manager unfortunately. I am happy that he has left the squad in a much better position than when he found it, and established us as a top 4 team in the country again. But he has far too many flaws to take us that extra step and win the league.

 

[Litch]

Do city a team that lost their opening game look much stronger than last season having only added Jack Grealish that really doesn't offer them anything new?

I think based on the last few years, if you are ahead of city in the league, you have won the title. Don't see this changing....

 

[Bilbo]

Good post.

Depressing but good.

The whole “we only need one or two more signings” rhetoric is depressing and exactly what we heard from Liverpool fans for decades. All of the really top managers have an uncanny knack of finding solutions from within. Either moulding youngsters into quality first team regulars or taking players that have previously been written off and rejuvenating their career.

If you ever find yourself trying to argue that success is only possible by buying a new player to replace every under-performer then it’s a sure sign that a better manager would get more out of the squad than the current one.

I think the bolded part is a little unfair on Ole. Very few of our fanbase would put Fred or McTominay anywhere close to a PL best XI, and yet we've progressed in our league finishes and also gone deep in most competitions we've played in. Wouldn't that be a good example of us finding a solution from within? Lindelof & De Gea would probably also qualify seeing that nobody on here rates them.

Of course there a limit to what can be achieved with what you have, which is why Chelsea bought Lukaku instead of trying to get by with Abraham or Werner. Even City with all of their recent trophies are looking outside the club for the answers to how they take that next step and win the CL.

 

[laughtersassassin]

I'm not Ole out. I'm just not sold on him either. To me I'd think about him as being on a probationary period of a job still.

If I'm honest do I think he will ever be good enough? No I don't.

If I was to guess our season right now I'd say 4th and no trophies and I'd part ways with him if that's the case.

Atleast he'll have left a new manager with a better team if that was to happen.