Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

UnofficialDevil

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I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
Comparing each of their first 100 games in charge for Man Utd -

Ole -

Goals for - 181

Goals against - 100

Games won - 55

Games lost - 24

Draws - 21

Points Per Game - 1.86

Clean Sheets - 38

Trophies won in that time - 0

Mourinho -

Goals for - 180

Goals against - 70

Games won - 62

Games lost - 15

Draws - 23

Points Per Game - 2.09

Clean Sheets - 49

Trophies won in that time - 3

Should make interesting reading for anyone who wants to approach the issue objectively and fairly…

Ole has scored 1 more goal. The rest of the comparisons are all heavily won by Mourinho.
Well well well…. Plus Mourinho won trophies too.
 

romufc

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I remembering having similar discussions with you last season. I had these concerns then, while you didn't agree at that point. It's good to see you haven't planted your flag and refused to acknowledge other things as I believe that's what a lot of people have done, on both sides.
Yep, I was Ole in, I was willing to see how he develops given some of the constraints. I was supportive of Ole as I thought he was the man we needed a the time, he has not managed to step up a level.

There is only so much you can back someone, I was happy to see a rebuild but once complete the expectation is higher. The really worrying thing is it seems we are going backwards, we have got better players but not improved.

Defensively, better players but dont look anywhere near the standard we should, even with 2 DM's
Passing, we cannot pass the football forward without losing it
Counter attack, we were good at this but recently, we cant seen to do that either
Corners, we cannot score or defend from them, our attacking corner seems to turn into a counter attack for the other team, Wolves, Villareal, Everton are all examples
Creativity, I mean we are lacking in that with Bruno and Pogba on the pitch

We have to face the fact, we are poor in all areas of the pitch at the moment, if after 3 years you cannot get 1 thing right, what is more time going to achieve?
 

passtheball

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Comparing each of their first 100 games in charge for Man Utd -

Ole -

Goals for - 181

Goals against - 100

Games won - 55

Games lost - 24

Draws - 21

Points Per Game - 1.86

Clean Sheets - 38

Trophies won in that time - 0

Mourinho -

Goals for - 180

Goals against - 70

Games won - 62

Games lost - 15

Draws - 23

Points Per Game - 2.09

Clean Sheets - 49

Trophies won in that time - 3

Should make interesting reading for anyone who wants to approach the issue objectively and fairly…

Ole has scored 1 more goal. The rest of the comparisons are all heavily won by Mourinho.
I presume this also includes Mourinho's meltdown half-season in 18/19? What a damning statistic.
 

Sviken

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Well well well…. Plus Mourinho won trophies too.
Problem is that Mourinho achieved much of this playing Fellaini, Rojo, Smalling, Ashley Young, Lingard, Baily and Valencia. Ole is stagnating with much, much better squad. It's sad how many people Ole has fooled that we've become "better" since Mourinho days. We have not. Neither in football quality nor results. If we exclude Mourinho's meltdown season, he performed by every measure much better than Ole has.
 

romufc

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Well well well…. Plus Mourinho won trophies too.
Ole's been backed fully as well, obviously Jose was to an extent but Ole has actually been given what he wants.

Bottom line us, Jose's time was bad, Ole's time is up, people need to realise this is not going to get better, there is no magic wand to fix loads of issues in our football.

Why wait to be 6th/8th and wait for us to be rock bottom before making changes, we need to be proactive.
 

elmo

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Surprised at those stats, the perception feels totally different, apart from the trophies obviously.
It's because Jose's team was a constant slog which got 1-2 goals a game whereas Ole's team peppers in a few 3/4 goals wins while going on a run of games going goalless.

People only remember the worst of Jose's time due to how it ended and they want to believe that Ole will come good which is why they purposely leave out the abject performances and keep harping back to his stint as the interim manager as if the performances back than reflects the actual performance we've been having.

It'll take him to be gone before most people admit that Ole's stint wasn't as good as most of them are saying it is.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Jose back in then?

I'm sorry but those stats don't paint a true story of how the club was doing then. It felt totally broken come his 3rd season and like the whole club had given up. It was toxic beyond belief.

He didn't actually make back to back CL finishes either. Ole has.

The only thing toxic about our club now is the fanbase. The club is in the best shape it's been since 2013.
That wasn’t your point though was it? Your point was that Ole’s football is much better and he scores way more goals. You’re moving the goalposts now rather than taking a step back and being fair.

Mourinho should’ve been replaced after his 2nd season, without doubt.

But he clearly did far better than Ole has thus far - as the post above makes plainly clear.

Ole should’ve been sacked by now. He’s offering nothing.

Nobody’s suggesting that Ole isn’t a better man manager than the curmudgeonly Mourinho - but if you’re gonna set the bar that low to manage Man Utd, I’d question whether your understandable love of Ole is somewhat limiting your ability to look at the bigger picture at this point.

If Mourinho was that bad… how has he beaten Ole in every possible metric?

If Mourinho needed to be sacked… how can Ole possibly be allowed to carry on?

If Mourinho’s reign was a failure… what on Earth is Ole’s at this point?
 

SAFMUTD

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Comparing each of their first 100 games in charge for Man Utd -

Ole -

Goals for - 181

Goals against - 100

Games won - 55

Games lost - 24

Draws - 21

Points Per Game - 1.86

Clean Sheets - 38

Trophies won in that time - 0

Mourinho -

Goals for - 180

Goals against - 70

Games won - 62

Games lost - 15

Draws - 23

Points Per Game - 2.09

Clean Sheets - 49

Trophies won in that time - 3

Should make interesting reading for anyone who wants to approach the issue objectively and fairly…

Ole has scored 1 more goal. The rest of the comparisons are all heavily won by Mourinho.
Damn, I expected at least a bigger difference in goals scored.

Can't be clearer than this, the illusion about us performing better is just based in nothing but positivism. Stats shows we are below what we achieved with Mourinho, 3 years 400M and a rebuild later.
 

Lynty

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Comparing each of their first 100 games in charge for Man Utd -

Ole -

Goals for - 181

Goals against - 100

Games won - 55

Games lost - 24

Draws - 21

Points Per Game - 1.86

Clean Sheets - 38

Trophies won in that time - 0

Mourinho -

Goals for - 180

Goals against - 70

Games won - 62

Games lost - 15

Draws - 23

Points Per Game - 2.09

Clean Sheets - 49

Trophies won in that time - 3

Should make interesting reading for anyone who wants to approach the issue objectively and fairly…

Ole has scored 1 more goal. The rest of the comparisons are all heavily won by Mourinho.
Jose was brilliant at the start. I dislike the man, but he's unquestionably a better manager than Ole.

He decided to drive us off a cliff though because he's mentally unstable.
 

Nou_Camp99

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That wasn’t your point though was it? Your point was that Ole’s football is much better and he scores way more goals. You’re moving the goalposts now rather than taking a step back and being fair.

Mourinho should’ve been replaced after his 2nd season, without doubt.

But he clearly did far better than Ole has thus far - as the post above makes plainly clear.

Ole should’ve been sacked by now. He’s offering nothing.

Nobody’s suggesting that Ole isn’t a better man manager than the curmudgeonly Mourinho - but if you’re gonna set the bar that low to manage Man Utd, I’d question whether your understandable love of Ole is somewhat limiting your ability to look at the bigger picture at this point.

If Mourinho was that bad… how has he beaten Ole in every possible metric?

If Mourinho needed to be sacked… how can Ole possibly be allowed to carry on?

If Mourinho’s reign was a failure… what on Earth is Ole’s at this point?
Because I think the understanding was under Ole we weren't going to throw 300m at 28 years olds or above and try and turn back the hands of time to Fergie days just like that. It was always going to take time.

Under Ole we've improved from 5th place (half season) to 3rd and then to 2nd and we have finally started to buy players that mostly fit the remit of a United player.

There is progression. There is a plan that is evident. But there's no instant success so the plastics want blood.
 

Shark

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The comparisons with LVG and Mourinho are on here just remind me how tragic we've been as a club for the past decade tbh. I've been indifferent to Ole for a long time but at least he's brought back some feel good factor to the club despite not delivering trophies or any real challenges for the title. The previous two on the other hand offered some silverware but the mood around the club was generally grim and the teams were for the large part unlikeable with many players just coming for one last pay day or didn't want to be here in the first place. At the end of the day Solskjaer is the only one who's managing to build something at least and has brought in players that actually want to play for the club. That's not to say Ole is anywhere close to being good enough but he deserves a massive amount of credit for turning us around in at least some regards.
 

Leftback99

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Comparing each of their first 100 games in charge for Man Utd -

Ole -

Goals for - 181

Goals against - 100

Games won - 55

Games lost - 24

Draws - 21

Points Per Game - 1.86

Clean Sheets - 38

Trophies won in that time - 0

Mourinho -

Goals for - 180

Goals against - 70

Games won - 62

Games lost - 15

Draws - 23

Points Per Game - 2.09

Clean Sheets - 49

Trophies won in that time - 3

Should make interesting reading for anyone who wants to approach the issue objectively and fairly…

Ole has scored 1 more goal. The rest of the comparisons are all heavily won by Mourinho.
You don't get points for cup games. Mourinho's first two seasons were very good, particularly in the cups helped by some favourable draws.
 

SER19

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You don't get points for cup games. Mourinho's first two seasons were very good, particularly in the cups helped by some favourable draws.
These comparison are very often absolutely pointless. I've gotten to the point where I've lost faith in solskjaer but there are simply far too many factors and variables to read anything into these stats. Every manager inherits new problems and squads and solskjaer took over a complete shit show for example. I couldn't care what mourinho did in his first 100 even if he won 90. The amount of times I see people point to mourinhos 81pts and second as some sort of stock to beat solskjaer with is just madness, should we just pretend his final season didn't even happen? He left us in a total mess. I think solskjaer should be replaced now unfortunately, but he'd leave us in a far better standing for the next manager than any predecessor, so in that sense he's done the best job. Would i swap it for a league cup and europa league if it meant the next manager took over a toxic mess of jumbled squad? Obviously not
 

AjaxCunian

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No one can fight against the fact that our league positions have improved. But in terms of points tallies we barely have or even failed to meet Mourinho's best season.

Has the competition actually gotten more as some suggests? Liverpool and City have been better than us for a long time.

Under Mourinho, werent we up against Conte's Chelsea that was better than Lampard's. Arsenal with Sanchez, Ozil, Ramsey who were a better side than they are now. Spurs who were also easily better drilled than they have been the past years. How much of an improvement has it actually been? Mourinho's last season was awful but it wasnt the general performance or status of his tenure here.

I do think the quality of the mid-table teams have severely improved.
 

FreakyJim

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Damn, I expected at least a bigger difference in goals scored.

Can't be clearer than this, the illusion about us performing better is just based in nothing but positivism. Stats shows we are below what we achieved with Mourinho, 3 years 400M and a rebuild later.
Rebuild isn't done yet though. Ole needs another 500mil to round it up to a cool billion spent, get Rice, Trippier and whoever else AND then and just then we can start judging.
 

AjaxCunian

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These comparison are very often absolutely pointless. I've gotten to the point where I've lost faith in solskjaer but there are simply far too many factors and variables to read anything into these stats. Every manager inherits new problems and squads and solskjaer took over a complete shit show for example. I couldn't care what mourinho did in his first 100 even if he won 90. The amount of times I see people point to mourinhos 81pts and second as some sort of stock to beat solskjaer with is just madness, should we just pretend his final season didn't even happen? He left us in a total mess. I think solskjaer should be replaced now unfortunately, but he'd leave us in a far better standing for the next manager than any predecessor.
Solksjaer will be leaving it far better, but there is also a notion that he has far improved us results/performance wise and that is very debatable.

He has basically built a much better squad (which is good but expected with that net spend), a better atmosphere but has done 0 with it.
 

hobbers

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So just to reiterate again, transfer funding doesn't work in the way that you Inject Coin and out comes Immediate Result, and your continued trotting out of transfer sums merely underlines the shallowness of your reasoning and its underlying assumptions. You spend money to improve the team, and improved us it has.
Nobody said it does. That doesn't detract from the importance of the transfer fees Ole has spent at all. And I have absolutely no doubt that if we'd spent relatively little on new signings people like you would be trotting that out in every post to excuse Ole's failures.

Even if you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore all the money Ole has spent on transfers, and on ridiculous new contracts for dead wood, it doesn't change the equation at all. We're 3 years in, brought in 10 new players, and there's no identifiable improvement in our playing style and no sustained improvement in results.
 

Giggsy13

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It’s amazing that so many are convinced that the football is better under Ole yet our teams under Ole have only scored 1 more goal in comparison to Jose’s teams in the first 100 games! Our views have been skewed by a few massive results and only goes to show the inconsistency of a better squad under Ole. The season so far as a small sample size shows the Jekyl & Hyde nature of our squad. 9 goals against Leeds and Newcastle but only 5 goals in our other 5 games. The most damning statistic so far is that we’ve only managed to keep 1 despite significant investment in our back 4.
 
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Roboc7

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I fundamentally disagree with that. Embarking on a full rebuild was in my view the completely correct thing to do in 2019, and we should have done so much earlier. The measure of that approach is where it leaves us at the end of it, ie this season and next, and United does not have a God-given right to "always be up there". Also, fan expectation that we nevertheless will is just counterproductive to that. It took Klopp several seasons to get Liverpool to their current level, and finished 8th and 4th in his first two seasons.
In his third they got over 90 points and won the Champions League, this is Ole’s third and this is the point so many people miss. There is a huge advantage to giving Klopp more time as he is an elite manager, it’s not an accident Liverpool progressed so much in that season whilst we’ll most likely regress.
 
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redshaw

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What are the stats in the last hundred or so games? I'd rather compare the latter side if we're talking about progression and improvements made by either manager. Quick search says Ole has 142 game in charge.

There was a stat recently that Ole's win percentage is now higher than Jose.

Not that I'm trying to back up Ole, the football has been generally negative from Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole. LVG must top the lot with so few goals and awful football when we came 5th with 49 goals.

The first 18 months with Jose was quite good, started off the second season well but by around Christmas time and City coming to OT and beating us it all turned sour as it was clear we couldn't maintain a challenge. Sanchez arrived and added more issues, talk of Pogba wanting to leave. We then managed to hold onto second with some very poor football in the second half of that season.
 
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DWelbz19

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Comparing each of their first 100 games in charge for Man Utd -

Ole -

Goals for - 181

Goals against - 100

Games won - 55

Games lost - 24

Draws - 21

Points Per Game - 1.86

Clean Sheets - 38

Trophies won in that time - 0

Mourinho -

Goals for - 180

Goals against - 70

Games won - 62

Games lost - 15

Draws - 23

Points Per Game - 2.09

Clean Sheets - 49

Trophies won in that time - 3

Should make interesting reading for anyone who wants to approach the issue objectively and fairly…

Ole has scored 1 more goal. The rest of the comparisons are all heavily won by Mourinho.
Wow. That's pretty damning.
 

Robbie Boy

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What are the stats in the last hundred or so games? I'd rather compare the latter side if we're talking about progression and improvements made by either manager. Quick search says Ole has 142 game in charge.

There was a stat recently that Ole's win percentage is now higher than Jose.

Not that I'm trying to back up Ole, the football has been generally negative from Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole. LVG must top the lot with so few goals and awful football when we came 5th with 49 goals.

The first 18 months with Jose was quite good, started off the second season well but by around Christmas time and City coming to OT and beating us it all turned sour as it was clear we couldn't maintain a challenge. Sanchez arrived and added more issues, talk of Pogba wanting to leave. We then managed to hold onto second with some very poor football in the second half of that season.
Jose: P144 W84 D32 L28 Win % 58.3
Ole : P161 W89 D36 L36 Win % 55.3
 

largelyworried

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Comparing each of their first 100 games in charge for Man Utd -

Ole -

Goals for - 181

Goals against - 100

Games won - 55

Games lost - 24

Draws - 21

Points Per Game - 1.86

Clean Sheets - 38

Trophies won in that time - 0

Mourinho -

Goals for - 180

Goals against - 70

Games won - 62

Games lost - 15

Draws - 23

Points Per Game - 2.09

Clean Sheets - 49

Trophies won in that time - 3

Should make interesting reading for anyone who wants to approach the issue objectively and fairly…

Ole has scored 1 more goal. The rest of the comparisons are all heavily won by Mourinho.
That is pretty interesting & genuinely not what I expected on the goals front. How many games did Jose last for?

I think the real question is trajectory. To me, Jose always felt like he might win the league like, but he was building a team for the short term. On the other hand Ole feels to me like he could never win the league, but he's at least building a team for the long term. So while he may leave with a worse record than Mourinho, I feel like his contribution will be more enduring.
 

Amir

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All the comparisons and stats are nice, but I'm only focused on one thing: I've never looked at our football under Solskjaer and thought it was the stuff that makes Champions and European Champions.

Sure, we had some great games, good attacking displays, in certain situations, but it takes more than that and we don't have that. It's not about the lack of players - of course better players can make better teams - but basics that ever lesser players should perform, and we don't.

Better than Mourinho, worse than Mourinho, better that LVG, worst than LVG... I don't care. They weren't good enough and niether is he.
 

Giggsy13

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In his third they got over 90 points and won the Champions League, this is Ole’s third and this is the point so many people miss. There is a huge advantage to giving a Klopp more time as he is an elite manager, it’s not an accident Liverpool progressed so much in that season whilst we’ll most likely regress.
I always find the Ole in mob’s comparison to Klopp both hilariously bad and lazy. It was clear within the first few years the style of play and tactics Klopp wanted to employ. As the Klopp rebuild continued, it was apparent that despite a world class attack, they were leaking goals. Cue the VVD and Allison signings and the rest is history. Not only has Ole brought in one game changing CB, he’s brought in two. He also has two starting caliber GKs! However, cue the excuses from the Ole in cult that he just needs another £100 million to address the midfield yet the problems are greater than that.
 

Robbie Boy

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Just a comparison below to Rodgers' time with Liverpool.

In 5 games time, Ole will have managed the same number of games for us, as Rodgers did with Liverpool. For me, both are very similar, in that they took their respective clubs out of a slump and left a great canvas for a better manager to work with. No matter what way you spin it, Ole's record is pretty average. Comparing him to two regimes, that people deem as 'failed regimes', is setting the bar low. However, on deeper analysis, has he really done any better? He should be credited for some of his good work, but overall, it's been a-bit average so far.

I'll reserve judgement on wanting him out for another few months, but the signs so far this season, look like he's brought us as far as his capabilities allow. He's certainly left us in a more promising position than his two predecessors did, though.

Ole : P161 W89 D36 L36 Win % 55.3
BR. : P166 W83 D41 L42 Win % 50
 

SAFMUTD

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Just a comparison below to Rodgers' time with Liverpool.

In 5 games time, Ole will have managed the same number of games for us, as Rodgers did with Liverpool. For me, both are very similar, in that they took their respective clubs out of a slump and left a great canvas for a better manager to work with. No matter what way you spin it, Ole's record is pretty average. Comparing him to two regimes, that people deem as 'failed regimes', is setting the bar low. However, on deeper analysis, has he really done any better? He should be credited for some of his good work, but overall, it's been a-bit average so far.

I'll reserve judgement on wanting him out for another few months, but the signs so far this season, look like he's brought us as far as his capabilities allow. He's certainly left us in a more promising position than his two predecessors did, though.

Ole : P161 W89 D36 L36 Win % 55.3
BR. : P166 W83 D41 L42 Win % 50
Haha what? Sorry but it looks like you didn't even bother to do a little research. Look at the squad Liverpool had when Rodgers left, literally no player besides Coutinho was in the starting XI 2 years later. He set up the bases for nothing.

Klopp brought Alisson, VVD, Matip, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Fabinho, Salah, Mane, Firminho and gave debut to TAA.
 

smi11ie

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Comparing each of their first 100 games in charge for Man Utd -

Ole -

Goals for - 181

Goals against - 100

Games won - 55

Games lost - 24

Draws - 21

Points Per Game - 1.86

Clean Sheets - 38

Trophies won in that time - 0

Mourinho -

Goals for - 180

Goals against - 70

Games won - 62

Games lost - 15

Draws - 23

Points Per Game - 2.09

Clean Sheets - 49

Trophies won in that time - 3

Should make interesting reading for anyone who wants to approach the issue objectively and fairly…

Ole has scored 1 more goal. The rest of the comparisons are all heavily won by Mourinho.

This destroys the progression arguement which I have always hated. I am Ole in but only for sentimental reasons. He is an awful manager but I would still like him to do well. Not sure he has appointed the right staff to help him succeed. The next few months will be interesting.
 

Robbie Boy

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Haha what? Sorry but it looks like you didn't even bother to do a little research. Look at the squad Liverpool had when Rodgers left, literally no player besides Coutinho was in the starting XI 2 years later. He set up the bases for nothing.

Klopp brought Alisson, VVD, Matip, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Fabinho, Salah, Mane, Firminho and gave debut to TAA.
Who mentioned signings?
 

Desert Eagle

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All the comparisons and stats are nice, but I'm only focused on one thing: I've never looked at our football under Solskjaer and thought it was the stuff that makes Champions and European Champions.

Sure, we had some great games, good attacking displays, in certain situations, but it takes more than that and we don't have that. It's not about the lack of players - of course better players can make better teams - but basics that ever lesser players should perform, and we don't.

Better than Mourinho, worse than Mourinho, better that LVG, worst than LVG... I don't care. They weren't good enough and niether is he.
Amen. The next guy might not be good enough too but that's no reason to keep a manager who is clearly not going to win us the big trophies.
 

justsomebloke

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Nobody said it does. That doesn't detract from the importance of the transfer fees Ole has spent at all. And I have absolutely no doubt that if we'd spent relatively little on new signings people like you would be trotting that out in every post to excuse Ole's failures.

Even if you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore all the money Ole has spent on transfers, and on ridiculous new contracts for dead wood, it doesn't change the equation at all. We're 3 years in, brought in 10 new players, and there's no identifiable improvement in our playing style and no sustained improvement in results.
Yes there is. But there's really not much point continuing to discuss this.
 

justsomebloke

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In his third they got over 90 points and won the Champions League, this is Ole’s third and this is the point so many people miss. There is a huge advantage to giving Klopp more time as he is an elite manager, it’s not an accident Liverpool progressed so much in that season whilst we’ll most likely regress.
Well, that is indeed the issue. We'll see.
 

Robbie Boy

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With the Ole / Mourinho comparisons, how much has each spent?

Not ‘net’ etc, just in terms of outgoing fees, how much did Mourinho spend and how much has Ole spent.
Funnily enough, 'net spend' was always used as a stick to beat Liverpool with over the years. Now though, it's fair game for some reason.
 

Roboc7

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Well, that is indeed the issue. We'll see.
We don’t need to wait and see though, Ole isn’t as good as Klopp, he’s not going to achieve as much. I can never comprehend why people mention the two of them together in defence of Ole, all it shows is that a much better manager can do a much better job.

The only comparison we should be making with Klopp is to show how badly we’ve got it wrong again, every manager post SAF has been the wrong choice and we’re still out of touch and old fashioned in our approach.
 

FatTails

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I’ve done this Ole and Mourinho comparison several times now. Even including Mourinho’s meltdown pre-sack period, and including Ole’s time as interim, Mourinho’s record is better at everything except goals scored. We score a bit more goals under Ole, but concede more, and enough, so that the GD per game is worse than Mou’s.

I’m going to do an xG comparison soon because, watching us, I don’t feel that we are better at chance creation, but I am wondering if the data backs that up.
 

justsomebloke

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Haha what? Sorry but it looks like you didn't even bother to do a little research. Look at the squad Liverpool had when Rodgers left, literally no player besides Coutinho was in the starting XI 2 years later. He set up the bases for nothing.

Klopp brought Alisson, VVD, Matip, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Fabinho, Salah, Mane, Firminho and gave debut to TAA.
Well, it's not very different with us. De Gea and Pogba are the only only remaining starters from back then.
 

justsomebloke

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Comparing each of their first 100 games in charge for Man Utd -

Ole -

Goals for - 181

Goals against - 100

Games won - 55

Games lost - 24

Draws - 21

Points Per Game - 1.86

Clean Sheets - 38

Trophies won in that time - 0

Mourinho -

Goals for - 180

Goals against - 70

Games won - 62

Games lost - 15

Draws - 23

Points Per Game - 2.09

Clean Sheets - 49

Trophies won in that time - 3

Should make interesting reading for anyone who wants to approach the issue objectively and fairly…

Ole has scored 1 more goal. The rest of the comparisons are all heavily won by Mourinho.
Who cares? We can tally that up when OGS joins JM as an ex United Manager, but for now This completely misses the essential point, which is "where are we at the END of it?". With JM we were in deep crisis with no way forward, which is why he was sacked. Currently, we are two points off the top of the table, with probably the best squad and more going for us than at any point since SAF. It's where things go from here that matters, whether we can break the plateau.