Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

Paul_Scholes18

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Could be a really bad season this one. Ole is really struggling to improve us so much that we have actualy regressed. If our wingers can get going again with Rashford and Sancho then things could maybe work.
 

Sviken

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Yeah, as long as you think tallying up the transfer spend represents a meaningful measure of expected results over the same period. Which it of course isn't. Also, you need to get a grip on where we actually were when OGS took over, which was in crisis. No one expected United to win anything in 19/20, and the focus was firmly - and rightly - on doing a proper rebuild job.

Don't know what you thought ahead of 19/20, for my part I thought 5th place looked like a reasonable aim. That was without knowing our two best offensive players would be out with injuries for long periods. Luckily, it was also without knowing we'd buy a transformative player in late January. But in any case, where we were at the end of that season was well ahead of anything I'd expected at the beginning of it.

For 20/21, with the limited reinforcements in that transfer window, I expected further progress. Which we got. All good.

Now with major signings this summer, there is every reason to expect us to perform at roughly the same level as the other 3 top clubs. We haven't so far. But come on, "3 years and 300 million, where are my trophies?", that's just crude.
On what criteria should Ole be judged then? 300 million is more than enough for a "rebuild job" (as if there is anything to rebuild. we finished second with way more points than Ole has ever got before Mou lost the dressing room). Same people such as yourself would later call Pep a bald fraud because of similar spending. But at least Pep delivers, Ole has delivered absolutely nothing. And yes, trophies matter. This is what the club has always been built for. This is the most important part of the mythical "United way" that Ole inners love to harp about. It's also the main reason why this club is the commercial juggernaut it is despite the Glazers terrible management. If we cannot compete, plastics will find another club to root for, thereby we'd lose a lot of revenue and in the process our ability to compete (since we're not funded by sheikh oil).

There is no progress. You people are just delusional... I'm sorry to say. We finished second in Mourinho's season with points that Ole for 3 seasons is unable to reach still. Where is the progress? We've been stomping on the same mud ground throughout the entirety of Ole's tenure. There is also nothing in sight that would suggest that is going to change given our performances on the pitch where even this team of absolute world class players in almost every position looks disjointed and clueless in everything.

Performing "roughly at the same level as the other 3 top clubs" is also nowhere near good enough. We should be competing for the title. Period. Ole has spent close the same as Pep and vastly more than Klopp and Tuchel. The time for excuses is over. If he is unable to compete in the league, then he better deliver on the other fronts, especially the CL. But our performances in Europe are even worse than in the league so I can never see that happening, but with CL you never know. It's a knockout competition. We can be completely shit and still win it, but I wouldn't bank on it. Suffice to say - honeymoon period is over

I'm not sure how any fan can pretend to have knowledge of how coaches perform behind the scenes.
I do not know what is going behind the scenes, but I do know what is going on the pitch and it is not pretty by any means. I also notice how much consulting Ole seems to be doing with Carrick during matches which makes me worried. On match day it seems like Carrick is more of the manager than Ole.
 

SAFMUTD

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I havent read the atheltic article but based on the quotes that are on twitter I genuinely dont know what does Ole actually do. They say McKenna and Carrick conduct the day to day training sessions with McKenna being the tactitian and Carrick being the motivator, the one putting "the hand over the players shoulder". So genuine question, what does Ole actually do? He seems to be just a pretty face saying the "correct" phrases here and there. I don't think he's putting his print on the team, that if he even has a print at all, besides "the united way" which is so abstract that it cant be proven or disproven.

Every week that goes by is another week wasted, ultimately we all know it wont be better than this. We will hardly have a better squad than this, so if we're not playing great football at this point we simply wont, not under Ole and the current coaching staff at least.
 

justsomebloke

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On what criteria should Ole be judged then? 300 million is more than enough for a "rebuild job" (as if there is anything to rebuild. we finished second with way more points than Ole has ever got before Mou lost the dressing room). Same people such as yourself would later call Pep a bald fraud because of similar spending. But at least Pep delivers, Ole has delivered absolutely nothing. And yes, trophies matter. This is what the club has always been built for. This is the most important part of the mythical "United way" that Ole inners love to harp about. It's also the main reason why this club is the commercial juggernaut it is despite the Glazers terrible management. If we cannot compete, plastics will find another club to root for, thereby we'd lose a lot of revenue and in the process our ability to compete (since we're not funded by sheikh oil).

There is no progress. You people are just delusional... I'm sorry to say. We finished second in Mourinho's season with points that Ole for 3 seasons is unable to reach still. Where is the progress? We've been stomping on the same mud ground throughout the entirety of Ole's tenure. There is also nothing in sight that would suggest that is going to change given our performances on the pitch where even this team of absolute world class players in almost every position looks disjointed and clueless in everything.

Performing "roughly at the same level as the other 3 top clubs" is also nowhere near good enough. We should be competing for the title. Period. Ole has spent close the same as Pep and vastly more than Klopp and Tuchel. The time for excuses is over. If he is unable to compete in the league, then he better deliver on the other fronts, especially the CL. But our performances in Europe are even worse than in the league so I can never see that happening, but with CL you never know. It's a knockout competition. We can be completely shit and still win it, but I wouldn't bank on it. Suffice to say - honeymoon period is over


I do not know what is going behind the scenes, but I do know what is going on the pitch and it is not pretty by any means. I also notice how much consulting Ole seems to be doing with Carrick during matches which makes me worried. On match day it seems like Carrick is more of the manager than Ole.
I've never said that about Pep, and never will either. Otherwise not much to add to add to what I've already written. Don't think you've got much of an argument.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Yeah, as long as you think tallying up the transfer spend represents a meaningful measure of expected results over the same period. Which it of course isn't. Also, you need to get a grip on where we actually were when OGS took over, which was in crisis. No one expected United to win anything in 19/20, and the focus was firmly - and rightly - on doing a proper rebuild job.

Don't know what you thought ahead of 19/20, for my part I thought 5th place looked like a reasonable aim. That was without knowing our two best offensive players would be out with injuries for long periods. Luckily, it was also without knowing we'd buy a transformative player in late January. But in any case, where we were at the end of that season was well ahead of anything I'd expected at the beginning of it.

For 20/21, with the limited reinforcements in that transfer window, I expected further progress. Which we got. All good.

Now with major signings this summer, there is every reason to expect us to perform at roughly the same level as the other 3 top clubs. We haven't so far. But come on, "3 years and 300 million, where are my trophies?", that's just crude.
I tend to agree with this.

Ole has raised expectations at the club. That is because his rebuild has been good.

Yes they are some question marks. I hope he improves this season. All the so called United fans cheering any perceived Ole mistake are weird. Most Prem managers don't last more than 2 years anyway, so I'm sure they'll get their wish soon enough.
 

Sviken

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I've never said that about Pep, and never will either. Otherwise not much to add to add to what I've already written. Don't think you've got much of an argument.
I never got your argument. Explain to me in short what would it take for Ole to deserve a sacking in your opinion?
 

roonster09

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I am not a wum, I can assure you of that.

If you can't read what I've put and explained why I believe that this is is first full year of having his team. Then you're more blinkered than you believe I am.

Stick me on Ignore.

I'll state it again, how dare you call me a WUM. Based on my own personal opinion?
So finally Ole built his team, what's the expectation for this season?
 

hobbers

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On the real one. Not the one where fans count transfer money and feel insulted they haven't got a trophy.
So we finish on 81 points in 17/18. Mou then has a meltdown and Ole takes over mid season, we finish on 66 points in 18/19.

You seriously believe that it's "better than we could reasonably expect", that we finished on 66 and 74 points in the following 2 seasons?

After spending £150m in Ole's first summer, £50m on Bruno mid season, and £80m in his second summer.

So just to reiterate again, £280m spent to achieve an 8 point gain in the league, no titles, no trophies, and not playing attractive football. And you think that's "better than we could reasonably expect".....

Crikey. I'd hate to see what 'less than we could reasonably expect' would look like to you. Maybe demotion to conference north?
 

UnitedSofa

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:lol: @UnitedSofa You’ve had an absolute mare in this thread. I suggest logging out and giving yourself a break pal.
I'll respond to the below and then take some time away. Certainly was a Weston, I'll give you that! :lol:



So finally Ole built his team, what's the expectation for this season?
Like most around here, but with a less than pessimistic view on it, much like Neville, if I remember correctly he said the team is good enough to reach the title but doesn't quite expect them to win it just yet.

So for me:

Top 3, (with a massive preference for top 2)
Semi Final in UCL
Final in FA Cup

Following season though, I personally would expect some silverware and challenge to the wire for the title, as I'd expect the club to fix the following areas in the team in the next two transfer windows.

ST (Haaland)
DM (Rice)
RB (Trippier in January)
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I'll respond to the below and then take some time away. Certainly was a Weston, I'll give you that! :lol:





Like most around here, but with a less than pessimistic view on it, much like Neville, if I remember correctly he said the team is good enough to reach the title but doesn't quite expect them to win it just yet.

So for me:

Top 3, (with a massive preference for top 2)
Semi Final in UCL
Final in FA Cup

Following season though, I personally would expect some silverware and challenge to the wire for the title, as I'd expect the club to fix the following areas in the team in the next two transfer windows.

ST (Haaland)
DM (Rice)
RB (Trippier in January)
Ole is not going to get almost 200m to buy Haaland Rice and Trippier if he can't at least challenge for the title with this team this season
 

MichaelRed

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I'll respond to the below and then take some time away. Certainly was a Weston, I'll give you that! :lol:





Like most around here, but with a less than pessimistic view on it, much like Neville, if I remember correctly he said the team is good enough to reach the title but doesn't quite expect them to win it just yet.

So for me:

Top 3, (with a massive preference for top 2)
Semi Final in UCL
Final in FA Cup

Following season though, I personally would expect some silverware and challenge to the wire for the title, as I'd expect the club to fix the following areas in the team in the next two transfer windows.

ST (Haaland)
DM (Rice)
RB (Trippier in January)
So it's fine if Ole finishes 3rd with the team he has? But we just finished 2nd last season so why is it okay to go backwards after 3 world class signings? Even if we finish 3rd on 85 points, you said earlier yourself that points are irrelevant and it's all about the position the points get you to. Honestly, it's a joke that people think Ole just needs Haaland & Rice & Trippier to add to De Gea, Shaw, Varane, Maguire, Pogba, Bruno, Greenwood, Rashford, Ronaldo, Martial, Sancho, Donny, AWB, Henderson etc to be able to challenge for a title. The Harlem Globe Trotters being coached by Mr Bean ffs.

Edit: Sorry, forgot Ole doesn't do the coaching. It's like the Harlem Globe Trotters being 'motivated' by Mr Bean ffs.
 

Chairman Steve

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Solskjaer has spent almost 3 years rebuilding Rome!

I don’t get this logic that a new season is seen as a hard reset for teams and managers, and how fans are meant to have their memory erased Men In Black style during the summer.

You’d be crazy to suggest Solskjaer needs to be sacked if this was his first 7 league games, and anyone suggesting it would be laughed at… but we’re now 161 games in and those trends are starting to appear once again and to make it even more concerning, we’ve upgraded our player quality year on year.
 
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BusbyMalone

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Oh, come on! :lol:

Whether you think he’s the man or not, that’s your opinion and I don’t really care. But surely you can’t suggest that you expect him to win some silverware ONLY when he has attacking options consisting of Fernandes, Pogba, Ronaldo, Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, Haaland, Martial and Cavani!

Not to mention a £100m (or thereabouts) CDM. You must be on the wind up on that one.
 

the_cliff

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Oh, come on! :lol:

Whether you think he’s the man or not, that’s your opinion and I don’t really care. But surely you can’t suggest that you expect him to win some silverware ONLY when he has attacking options consisting of Fernandes, Pogba, Ronaldo, Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, Haaland, Martial and Cavani!

Not to mention a £100m (or thereabouts) CDM. You must be on the wind up on that one.
After that they'd still say we need a rb but it's only a matter of time tbh, Ironically I think the signing of Ronaldo will be the downfall of Ole.
 
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No lies told..
 

hobbers

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Zero improvement is a hyperbole statement.
No it isn't.

We played our best spells of football under Ole during his first 10 games in charge. And in the brief period between Bruno arriving and lockdown.

Compare the first 10 games of this season with either period. It's not just zero improvement it's an alarming decline.
 

rotherham_red

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No lies told..
A lot of lies told, actually.

From Wright saying "he's just vibes", to Dave Jones on Sky telling Poch that his next team is red on MNF, where is this notion that he gets an easy ride coming from? And that's before we get to the likes of Oli Kay, Miguel Delaney, Jonathan Wilson et al who have done nothing but criticise since he got the job.

Also, this is the same Carragher who said this regarding Lampard:


I look forward to his equally impartial analysis of Liverpool when Stevie G inevitably gets the gig.
 

SER19

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Could be a really bad season this one. Ole is really struggling to improve us so much that we have actualy regressed. If our wingers can get going again with Rashford and Sancho then things could maybe work.
Were so far behind its untrue. Somehow behind despite easy opening 6 games. By December it will be clear how far off we are. We basically flopped a huge chance to start season ahead
 

rotherham_red

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A lot of lies told, actually.

From Wright saying "he's just vibes", to Dave Jones on Sky telling Poch that his next team is red on MNF, where is this notion that he gets an easy ride coming from? And that's before we get to the likes of Oli Kay, Miguel Delaney, Jonathan Wilson et al who have done nothing but criticise since he got the job.

Also, this is the same Carragher who said this regarding Lampard:


I look forward to his equally impartial analysis of Liverpool when Stevie G inevitably gets the gig.
Also, this:

 

Chesterlestreet

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Ignoring his * odd choice of words and generally poor use of the English language, he fails to take into account the current situation.

Ole's United could reasonably (yes, very much so) finish 4th this season, having done a fairly decent job.

Unless you think Pep, Klopp and Tuchel aren't all that - and that the players at their disposal aren't all that either.

* Spitting boy, I mean.
 

rotherham_red

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Were so far behind its untrue. Somehow behind despite easy opening 6 games. By December it will be clear how far off we are. We basically flopped a huge chance to start season ahead
Let's wait and see. The way I see it every team around us has had dips this season.

Liverpool drew with Brentford, City lost to Spurs and drew with Southampton. Our results are known and Chelsea are picking up results which their performances haven't deserved.

We're two positive results in fixtures which we historically have done well in under Ole away from having a more than decent start.
 

DJ_21

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I’ve seen calls for ole to bring Rene meulensteen back, he’s really good tactically apparently and was fergies right hand man for in game adjustments. Surely bringing in the right coaches can only improve us and improve Solskjær as a manager. Maybe bring in a few coaches from Germany, they certainly know how to coach and play good football.
 

meamth

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No it isn't.

We played our best spells of football under Ole during his first 10 games in charge. And in the brief period between Bruno arriving and lockdown.

Compare the first 10 games of this season with either period. It's not just zero improvement it's an alarming decline.
There are many games we completely trashed other teams, not just that first 10 games in charge. Come on now.

Yes, you have the right to criticize our style of play now, not going to lie I'm also beginning to lose some patience.

But considering the fact that players are in really awful form, players not in sync and that midfield problem, I'm optimistic that we have a style of play once those problems fixed.

Now Ole needs to get the players back to their level.
 

Sviken

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I’ve seen calls for ole to bring Rene meulensteen back, he’s really good tactically apparently and was fergies right hand man for in game adjustments. Surely bringing in the right coaches can only improve us and improve Solskjær as a manager. Maybe bring in a few coaches from Germany, they certainly know how to coach and play good football.
Doubt Ole has that power. Seems like Carrick and McKenna are some club appointees given that they were there under Mourinho and I doubt Mourinho was all too happy about having coaches with next to zero experience at the top level.
 

AltiUn

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No it isn't.

We played our best spells of football under Ole during his first 10 games in charge. And in the brief period between Bruno arriving and lockdown.

Compare the first 10 games of this season with either period. It's not just zero improvement it's an alarming decline.
It is, it's an objectively untrue statement. Solskjaer took over us in 6th place, 11 points off top 4, last year we finished the season in second place and reached a European final. There's been undeniable, objective, improvement since he took over. You can argue about it until you're blue in the face but I don't think there's a single metric that hasn't improved since he took over, compared to what it was when Mourinho was sacked. And this is from someone who actually thinks he needs to go.

What is subjective is when we played our best football. I happen to think we've played loads of good football sporadically over the last couple of years, with our best being played most consistently last year.
 

meamth

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I’ve seen calls for ole to bring Rene meulensteen back, he’s really good tactically apparently and was fergies right hand man for in game adjustments. Surely bringing in the right coaches can only improve us and improve Solskjær as a manager. Maybe bring in a few coaches from Germany, they certainly know how to coach and play good football.
Nagelsmann himself famously said:

A young man on the touchline who’s been able to supplement technical know-how with a well-developed sense of man-management. “Thirty per cent of coaching is tactics, 70% social competence,” he told Süddeutsche Zeitung in August, “every player is motivated by different things and needs to be addressed accordingly. At this level, the quality of the players at your disposal will ensure that you play well within a good tactical set-up – if the psychological condition is right.”

You can bring all the German coaches you want, but that is how I view a manager. Ole is a good man manager, the players just need to click now and we're back playing good football.
 

mav_9me

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I'll respond to the below and then take some time away. Certainly was a Weston, I'll give you that! :lol:





Like most around here, but with a less than pessimistic view on it, much like Neville, if I remember correctly he said the team is good enough to reach the title but doesn't quite expect them to win it just yet.

So for me:

Top 3, (with a massive preference for top 2)
Semi Final in UCL
Final in FA Cup

Following season though, I personally would expect some silverware and challenge to the wire for the title, as I'd expect the club to fix the following areas in the team in the next two transfer windows.

ST (Haaland)
DM (Rice)
RB (Trippier in January)
Is that bolded part your expectation for this season?
 

The Dane

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It has probably been said before in this forum but here goes again, if OGS was sacked tomorrow I don’t think he will be picked up by any club outside of Norway. Tuchel, Klopp or Guardiola can more or less choose themselves were they want to work.
If we want to compete with City, Chelsea and Liverpool we need a Manager who can match theirs because our squad/first 11 are not better than theirs. Unless of course you are of the opinion that Managers don’t make a difference. Then we are all good.
 

lex talionis

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I share the growing concern that United are poorly managed, a concern I scoffed at over the summer.

This squad should not have been humbled by Young Boys, West Ham and Everton.
 

LJJT

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The Ole out narrative seems to be building by the day, from media and fans it seems. I sincerely hope the board stick to their convictions and ignore all the hysteria around the club and hope Ole can get the team performing to silence a lot of this noise. A lot of it in my view is plain wrong and being built up by the media as not a lot else going on at the minute and it’s making clicks and it’s influencing fans no matter what any one says. Ole has his short comings but he’s done very well up to this point the club is in far better shape than it was when he arrived and I’m not convinced there’s any one available out there who can continue his good work so far.
 

RedDevil@84

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The Ole out narrative seems to be building by the day, from media and fans it seems. I sincerely hope the board stick to their convictions and ignore all the hysteria around the club and hope Ole can get the team performing to silence a lot of this noise
Ya. Everyone is going to shut up if we go on a winning streak. So let's go for it and get in win after win after wins.
 

SAFMUTD

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Let's wait and see. The way I see it every team around us has had dips this season.

Liverpool drew with Brentford, City lost to Spurs and drew with Southampton. Our results are known and Chelsea are picking up results which their performances haven't deserved.

We're two positive results in fixtures which we historically have done well in under Ole away from having a more than decent start.
Problem its we've been lucky in all honesty. We didnt deserve to win against Wolves and deserved to lose against Saints. Without mentioning West Ham with De Gea's last minute penalty save. Truth is we are much closer to being way below than unlucky not to be upfront.
 

hobbers

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It is, it's an objectively untrue statement. Solskjaer took over us in 6th place, 11 points off top 4, last year we finished the season in second place and reached a European final. There's been undeniable, objective, improvement since he took over. You can argue about it until you're blue in the face but I don't think there's a single metric that hasn't improved since he took over, compared to what it was when Mourinho was sacked. And this is from someone who actually thinks he needs to go.

What is subjective is when we played our best football. I happen to think we've played loads of good football sporadically over the last couple of years, with our best being played most consistently last year.
The single metric that has improved is going from 66 points to 74. That's it. Which for the money spent is laughable. The European final represents a step backwards from Mourinho. Because we got there by stinking up the CL group stage and we lost in the final. Same story with the domestic cups.

And in any case I'm talking about the style of football, quality of football, performance levels, energy levels, focus etc. It's all going backwards almost game by game.