Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[#07]

He won't get a free pass if we fail to make top 4.

Chelsea are severely weakened and Arsenal are Arsenal.

There is nothing that could turn me against Ole. I still remember how happy I was when he scored against Charlton after years out with injury.

To me Ole means more than any of the bluffers in the dressing room. Keane was right that these players will throw Ole under the bus. Knowing this I'm not expecting Ole to be the second coming of Sir Alex Ferguson. I'm just going to enjoy seeing someone I love manage my team.

Frankly, Ole is one of the few things I actually like about Man Utd right now. We're like a poundshop Chelsea: Sacking managers to keep slacker players on side but failing to win big pots during the periods where the dressing room is 'happy.' Considering where we were 10 years ago its incredible that we've basically become a knock off version of Roman's empire.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

He wasn't even permanent manager at that time and Chelsea didn't have manager.

I know - he had been appointed caretaker manager and led the team to an FA Cup win and a CL win. He hadn't been appointed permanently, but it was pretty obvious that he would be.

Also you just turned everything into rosy, it was anything but rosy. Chelsea had no choice as he won CL, so they had to offer him contract when it was obvious it will end in one way.

I didn't turn anything 'into rosy' - I said things looked rosy at the time. The bolded sentence is hilarious given how vociferously you have challenged anyone that has similar concerns about OGS!

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

That hire was always stupid by Chelsea.

That Chelsea CL title was arguably a bigger fluke than Greece at the Euros.

They got completely dominated by both Bayern and Barcelona and somehow won it all. They didn't even play good defense(like they did vs Barca in 2009). They got literally dominated in their final 2 games of the campaign.

I agree. Always dangerous to appoint a guy permanently off the back of a short period of caretaker management isn't it?!

 

[Castia]

I'll be blunt here.

Given our current links he seems to be identifying a awful lot of mediocre shite as transfer targets.

I can see what we are trying to do, we're going after young 'talented' players the problem is the targets being linked aren't exactly 'talented'. Instead of a squad of overpaid players we're going to be full of players simply not good enough.

 

[roonster09]

I know - he had been appointed caretaker manager and led the team to an FA Cup win and a CL win. He hadn't been appointed permanently, but it was pretty obvious that he would be.

I didn't turn anything 'into rosy' - I said things looked rosy at the time. The bolded sentence is hilarious given how vociferously you have challenged anyone that has similar concerns about OGS!

It wasn't Rosy, they had no choice but to appoint him. So Di Matteo > SAF as Hazard rejected ManUtd, that itself should tell you how important manager is when it comes to signing players.

Re other part, meh, Same shit another day.

 

[Enigma_87]

That hire was always stupid by Chelsea.

That Chelsea CL title was arguably a bigger fluke than Greece at the Euros.

They got completely dominated by both Bayern and Barcelona and somehow won it all. They didn't even play good defense(like they did vs Barca in 2009). They got literally dominated in their final 2 games of the campaign.

Sounds familiar like our PSG game. The outcome - manager sacked after couple of months in the next season would probably be too.

 

[Enigma_87]

It wasn't Rosy, they had no choice but to appoint him. So Di Matteo > SAF as Hazard rejected ManUtd, that itself should tell you how important manager is when it comes to signing players.

Re other part, meh, Same shit another day.

This has always been a non argument to me. Chelsea were the CL winners. They were 2nd the season before, won it under Ranieri. They were top team no doubt.

We never know whether or not they offered him more money which could've been turning point as well. There are ton of other players that joined us due to Ferguson and saying otherwise is going to be a non argument.

Would you say that many players didn't join us during Fergie years because of the manager and who he was? One player rejecting us is not a rule.

It's the same if a certain player joins a club due to the manager to say that it's 100% important isn't it?

 

[roonster09]

This has always been a non argument to me. Chelsea were the CL winners. They were 2nd the season before, won it under Ranieri. They were top team no doubt.

We never know whether or not they offered him more money which could've been turning point as well. There are ton of other players that joined us due to Ferguson and saying otherwise is going to be a non argument.

Would you say that many players didn't join us during Fergie years because of the manager and who he was? One player rejecting us is not a rule.

It's the same if a certain player joins a club due to the manager to say that it's 100% important isn't it?

I didn't say manager are not part of the package at all, I said small part of the package.

We missed out on many players under SAF. Shearer rejected us twice. Ronaldo was desperate to leave ManUtd and play for Madrid when they had some average joe as manager. Ramsey rejected SAF after agreeing fee and signed for Wenger. Kluviert rejected us and that's when we signed Yorke. There are rumors that VDS rejected ManUtd in 1999 and signed for Juventus. Obi Mikel signed for us and then got out of contract to sign for Chelsea. Gazza rejected SAF to sign for Spurs. Lucas rejected Manutd to sign for PSG and we were so close to signing him. Bale also rejected ManUtd when he moved to Spurs (have to check the story again). Benzema rejected us to sign for Madrid who had Pellegrini as manager.

 

[Enigma_87]

I didn't say manager are not part of the package at all, I said small part of the package.

We missed out on many players under SAF. Shearer rejected us twice. Ronaldo was desperate to leave ManUtd and play for Madrid when they had some average joe as manager. Ramsey rejected SAF after agreeing fee and signed for Wenger. Kluviert rejected us and that's when we signed Yorke. There are rumors that VDS rejected ManUtd in 1999 and signed for Juventus. Obi Mikel signed for us and then got out of contract to sign for Chelsea. Gazza rejected SAF to sign for Spurs. Lucas rejected Manutd to sign for PSG and we were so close to signing him. Bale also rejected ManUtd when he moved to Spurs (have to check the story again). Benzema rejected us to sign for Madrid who had Pellegrini as manager.

Ronaldo joined us due to Ferguson in the first place.

Here's what he said when he joined:

“After the game some of my teammates said: ‘Listen, you’re going to go to Manchester, trust me!’

“Sir Alex Ferguson was there, and [his team-mates said] he wants to speak with you. I go to the dressing room, he introduced me to the [United] players.

“For me, I was a little bit shy. And Sir Alex Ferguson said to me: ‘Listen, I want you now.'”

Ronaldo to Sky Sports.

Berbatov joined us and pushed for the move due to working with Fergie. Ferguson was United for large portion of his stay at the club and most of the top players that we bought joined due to who he was. Sure you can't sign them all and there are plenty of other options around but it's disingenuous to say that Sir Alex wasn't a big pull to 80-90% of the players we signed in the last 20-30 years.

 

[roonster09]

Ronaldo joined us due to Ferguson in the first place.

Here's what he said when he joined:



Berbatov joined us and pushed for the move due to working with Fergie. Ferguson was United for large portion of his stay at the club and most of the top players that we bought joined due to who he was. Sure you can't sign them all and there are plenty of other options around but it's disingenuous to say that Sir Alex wasn't a big pull to 80-90% of the players we signed in the last 20-30 years.

Now you are making up points I didn't make.

 

[Enigma_87]

Now you are making up points I didn't make.

You are saying that managers are said small part of the package and gave Fergie as an example.

To me Fergie was big part of the package in terms of pull in the last 20-30 years when he was our manager - regardless whether we missed several targets. Fergie is actually the worst example you can come up with to highlight that managers don't have a pull.

 

[roonster09]

You are saying that managers are said small part of the package and gave Fergie as an example.

To me Fergie was big part of the package in terms of pull in the last 20-30 years when he was our manager - regardless whether we missed several targets. Fergie is actually the worst example you can come up with to highlight that managers don't have a pull.

Err, I gave managers are small part of the package and gave examples of players who rejected SAF's team.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

It wasn't Rosy, they had no choice but to appoint him. So Di Matteo > SAF as Hazard rejected ManUtd, that itself should tell you how important manager is when it comes to signing players.

So if things weren't rosy for Chelsea when they 'had no choice but to appoint' their caretaker manager permanently, with an FA Cup and Champions League in the bag how are things looking for United who had 'had no choice but to appoint' our caretaker manager after a good run of wins and then witnessed the worst form for 60 odd years?

Re other part, meh, Same shit another day.

Can you see how hypocritical all of this seems?

 

[roonster09]

So if things weren't rosy for Chelsea when they 'had no choice but to appoint' their caretaker manager permanently, with an FA Cup and Champions League in the bag how are things looking for United who had 'had no choice but to appoint' our caretaker manager after a good run of wins and then witnessed the worst form for 60 odd years?

Can you see how hypocritical all of this seems?

No one said everything is good at Manutd isn't it?

No all I can see is same nonsense posted every day.

 

[Bondi77]

Over the years I am sure we have heard the same arguments over and over again like;
We need a top manager to attract top talent

Players do not respect manager as he was not a top player himself. The manager should not get job at top club because he has no previous success at another top club or clubs.

For everyone of these arguments there are examples of managers who have been successful without the above so in my humble opinion we just have to see how it unfolds under Ole but what I do know about him are as follows;
He was a top player at a top club and he had great technique which I would imagine he values in a player
He prioritise high fitness levels which are a must at high level sport
He is Attack minded.

If the group bond together and share the managers view and put in the required effort then we should be successful and if not then no matter which players come or go we will not be,

It is as simple as that.

 

[Enigma_87]

Err, I gave managers are small part of the package and gave examples of players who rejected SAF's team.

Someone rejecting Fergie doesn't make him a less of a pull for other players we signed over the years. Of course managers are not 100% the reason why players join clubs, but Ferguson himself played a big part over almost all the players we recruited over the years, hence him being small part of the package is completely untrue.

You really can't claim he wasn't a big pull for players that joined us based on the fact others rejected us for various reasons.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

No all I can see is same nonsense posted every day.

Whereas your posting is incredibly diverse and salient?

No one said everything is good at Manutd isn't it?

No it's shite. But I'm specifically talking about the managerial situation, as that is what we're discussing on this thread. How can it have been 'not rosy' at Chelsea when they appointed Di Matteo and yet all summer you've been shouting down anyone that expresses similar concerns about OGS?

 

[roonster09]

Someone rejecting Fergie doesn't make him a less of a pull for other players we signed over the years. Of course managers are not 100% the reason why players join clubs, but Ferguson himself played a big part over almost all the players we recruited over the years, hence him being small part of the package is completely untrue.

You really can't claim he wasn't a big pull for players that joined us based on the fact others rejected us for various reasons.

Well that's what I said. I didn't say they are not part of transfers, I said club's position, financial package are bigger part. Under SAF we were winning machine and offered good wages too.

 

[roonster09]

Whereas your posting is incredibly diverse and salient?

Yes compared to yours.

No it's shite. But I'm specifically talking about the managerial situation, as that is what we're discussing on this thread. How can it have been 'not rosy' at Chelsea when they appointed Di Matteo and yet all summer you've been shouting down anyone that expresses similar concerns about OGS?

I didn't shout down on anyone, I said he should be given time to judge as he took over midseason that lacked confidence, fitness and everything. In the discussion I was asked why I backed Solskjaer and I gave reasons on why. Now don't ask me what are those, I have posted them many times.

 

[Enigma_87]

Well that's what I said. I didn't say they are not part of transfers, I said club's position, financial package are bigger part. Under SAF we were winning machine and offered good wages too.

My point was big part vs small part

Fergie was a big part for us. Every player that joined us had to consider him as a figure as the club was basically ran by him, hence he played a major role, not just being a successful manager.

 

[roonster09]

My point was big part vs small part

Fergie was a big part for us. Every player that joined us had to consider him as a figure as the club was basically ran by him, hence he played a major role, not just being a successful manager.

We were winning machine back then and offered good wages. That played huge part, of course once in a life time manager plays a role higher than your regular managers.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Yes compared to yours.

Ha ha, in your opinion.

I didn't shout down on anyone, I said he should be given time to judge as he took over midseason that lacked confidence, fitness and everything. In the discussion I was asked why I backed Solskjaer and I gave reasons on why. Now don't ask me what are those, I have posted them many times.

You and a couple of others have been like attack dogs - every time anyone posts anything that could considered as even slightly critical of Solskjaer there you are (204 posts in this thread alone - wow). And yet, here you are acknowledging that Chelsea 'had no choice' but to appoint Di Matteo and what a dire mistake it turned out to be....the exact same thing that the people on this thread have been saying about OGS that you've had your panties in a wad about. Wow.

 

[roonster09]

Ha ha, in your opinion.

You and a couple of others have been like attack dogs - every time anyone posts anything that could considered as even slightly critical of Solskjaer there you are (204 posts in this thread alone - wow). And yet, here you are acknowledging that Chelsea 'had no choice' but to appoint Di Matteo and what a dire mistake it turned out to be....the exact same thing that the people on this thread have been saying about OGS that you've had your panties in a wad about. Wow.

204 posts as there are couple of numpties (or few dumb cnuts, Mou fan boys) who keeps replying to my posts with more nonsense and same shit every day.

I have said why I believe he should be given time, for some odd reason you are too thick to read and understand and come up with same shit again and again.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

204 posts as there are couple of numpties (or few dumb cnuts, Mou fan boys) who keeps replying to my posts with more nonsense and same shit every day.

I have said why I believe he should be given time, for some odd reason you are too thick to read and understand and come up with same shit again and again.

Resorting to insults?

You're lacking a bit of self-awareness if you think that all that is going on here is 'people replying to your posts with more nonsense and same shit every day' - do you not think that it works both ways?

 

[roonster09]

Resorting to insults?

You're lacking a bit of self-awareness if you think that all that is going on here is 'people replying to your posts with more nonsense and same shit every day' - do you not think that it works both ways?

No. Usually I use that when you reply to my posts, as that's what I believe. In my opinion anyways.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

No. Usually I use that when you reply to my posts, as that's what I believe. In my opinion anyways.

I don't follow, you're gonna have to spell it out - I'm a dumb cnut you see...

 

[roonster09]

I don't follow, you're gonna have to spell it out - I'm a dumb cnut you see...

I didn't say that but you should know about yourself better than I do, so who am I to argue against that.

Good day.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Been saying this about OgS, I see him as a sacrificial lamb of sorts.

He’ll be tasked with [apparently slowly] getting rid of deadwood & playing youngsters due to no better, older options.

He’s the man before the man.

Yeah my feeling as well. Maybe Woodward is already planning to change manager and that's why we haven't spent much money so far this summer.

 

[Bojan11]

Yeah my feeling as well. Maybe Woodward is already planning to change manager and that's why we haven't spent much money so far this summer.

Woodward and planning doesn’t go together.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Woodward and planning doesn’t go together.

Ed: 'That Jose bloke is out of work'.
Staff member: 'He's already managed us Ed'
Ed: 'Has he'?

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

I didn't say that but you should know about yourself better than I do, so who am I to argue against that.

Good day.

This is like dealing with a child!

 

[roonster09]

This is like dealing with a child!

 

[JustAGuest]

This is like dealing with a child!

Can you see how hypocritical all of this seems?

 

[Enigma_87]

We were winning machine back then and offered good wages. That played huge part, of course once in a life time manager plays a role higher than your regular managers.

And this is United we're discussing and Ole at helm. Managers have always played big part at this club - from Busby till Fergie.

Players are not idiots - in the last 6 years the two figures we miss most and failed to replace are Fergie and Gill.

If Fergie was our manager now no doubt we would have more pull at the market right now, regardless of past success - it is because who he is. If Jose was our manager we would have bigger pull just like we did sign Pogba, Lukaku, Zlatan, Matic, Sanchez and other high profile names at the time. A nobody manager after 3-4 unsuccessful ones result in less pull and manager is a factor - you can of course debate if he's big or a small one.

One thing is for sure nobody will sign up playing for Ole as a big or small factor because he managed in a tin pot league, was big time failure at Cardiff and is on the back of the worst run for the club since 50 years. Whilst on the other hand I can see players signing up because of managers like Pep, Sarri, Klopp, Ancelotti, Conte, etc.

In our case sure the manager isn't a factor players joining us because no top player actually knows his style or his general play, especially if he saw our last 2-3 months of the season, neither he has proven track of success, neither his rebuilding plan seems 'plausible' for a top player.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Can you see how hypocritical all of this seems?

Yes, it is pretty hypocritical to spend the whole thread berating people who have their concerns about the appointment of OGS only to then later concede that Chelsea had made a huge error in appointing Di Matteo. Well spotted.

 

[Enigma_87]

Tbf that Di Matteo example is pretty odd to say for those who defend appointing Ole. Di Matteo won CL and FA cup. Ole won absolutely nothing yet Di Matteo should have not been given a chance, whilst Ole should?

 

[roonster09]

And this is United we're discussing and Ole at helm. Managers have always played big part at this club - from Busby till Fergie.

Players are not idiots - in the last 6 years the two figures we miss most and failed to replace are Fergie and Gill.

If Fergie was our manager now no doubt we would have more pull at the market right now. A nobody manager after 3-4 unsuccessful ones result in less pull and manager is a factor - you can of course debate if he's big or a small one.

One thing is for sure nobody will sign up playing for Ole as a big or small factor because he managed in a tin pot league, was big time failure at Cardiff and is on the back of the worst run for the club since 50 years. Whilst on the other hand I can see players signing up because of managers like Pep, Sarri, Klopp, Ancelotti, Conte, etc.

In our case sure the manager isn't a factor players joining us because no top player actually knows his style or his general play, especially if he saw our last 2-3 months of the season.

Well I disagree with almost everything. Everyone knows manager don't stay for long time, it's the club's position and wages that plays the bigger role. Anyways I have made my points.

 

[roonster09]

Tbf that Di Matteo example is pretty odd to say for those who defend appointing Ole. Di Matteo won CL and FA cup. Ole won absolutely nothing yet Di Matteo should have not been given a chance, whilst Ole should?

Then you have missed the whole context and everything (arguments from last 2-3 months). Jose also had better CV than any manager we can appoint, doesn't mean he would be the best appointment. Sometimes you have to look past the CV, something we are shit at and one of the big reason for this mess. If we go by your logic, Di Matteo >>> Poch.

 

[Enigma_87]

Well I disagree with almost everything. Everyone knows manager don't stay for long time, it's the club's position and wages that plays the bigger role. Anyways I have made my points.

Nowadays players don't stay for a long time either. Most of the big names would stay around 2-3 years as you can see Pogba wants to leave. A viable short term project has a lot more pull than you think

If you are Neymar for example would you join United project led by a nobody manager or say a City project led by Pep? Assuming the financial power of both clubs is about equal (and it might very well be). Successful teams nowadays are also led by successful managers - look at last year - Emery, Sarri, Pep, Klopp - those we competed with.

 

[roonster09]

Nowadays players don't stay for a long time either. Most of the big names would stay around 2-3 years as you can see Pogba wants to leave. A viable short term project has a lot more pull than you think

If you are Neymar for example would you join United project led by a nobody manager or say a City project led by Pep? Assuming the financial power of both clubs is about equal (and it might very well be). Successful teams nowadays are also led by successful managers - look at last year - Emery, Sarri, Pep, Klopp - those we competed with.

Most big players stay for more than 2-3 years, as long as they are paid good money and team is competing at highest level.

If I was Neymar, I wouldn't have joined ManUtd even when we were managed by Jose, it's not as if we were going places with better CV manager.

Funny now Sarri became successful manager when just a year back he was manager who lacked 'winning mentality' when I was defending him for the work he did at Napoli.

Why would world class player join a club in the 6th place and not making enough investments to sign better players?