Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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beer&grill

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People make a lot of excuses for Ole so I thought about giving my two cents on them.

Even Pep or Klopp can’t do better with this squad.
Ok, so what is the role of the manager then? Why do clubs pay big wages for managers if all it takes is good players? If they can’t do better than Ole, maybe the reverse is true aswell, so we can hire a sunday league manager who can’t do worse than him and save some wages.

SAF was given time and the rest is history.
The times have changed, and people seem to forget that their resumes don’t really compare. One has worked miracles both in Europe and Scotland with underdogs, while the other has managed most of his career in a Mickey Mouse league and the single time he managed outside of it has relegated his team.

Should be given more transfer windows to make the team his own.
Why is that? What did he do to deserve it? If you did nothing notable in your 10 years career, then you either click immediately or get the sack. You don’t get the leeway because you simply don’t deserve it. Other managers get it because they showed in the past that they are capable. You can make arguments for Mourinho being past it, but I think it’s clear to see why giving him time and money wasn’t a bad idea, at least in theory. In business, you sometimes invest money in good ideas and lose, and that’s fine. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t invest anymore in ideas with high probability of succes just because it doesn’t work 100% of the time. Imagine appointing from now ‘til 2100 only managers like Ole, or only managers like Mourinho, Poch, even Alegri and think about which strategy would be more succesful long term.

He cleared deadwood.
Not really, Lukaku wasn’t the greatest but was hardly a deadwood compared to other rightful deadwoods. The same can be said for Smalling. Ok, Sanchez was a flop, I’ll give you that, but this clearing of deadwoods is hardly quantum physics, is it? It’s such a small fraction of what a manager is supposed to do that it doesn’t even matter, and like I said, it isn’t an achievement that any other manager couldn’t do.

His signings have been very good.
Very early to tell for sure, but paying the world record fee for a CB and an expensive RB, they better be. Again, hardly an achievement considering the prices.

Also, I see a lot of people comparing Ole with Lampard to put Ole in a favorable light. Please remeber than one is a true rookie which shows potential, and one is a seasoned manager with 10 years that has shown nothing.
 

roonster09

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Maybe create your own view instead of i don’t know. He said he wanted a replacement but all the leaked replacements apart from Ben Yedder was reactive swap deal crap. That tells me he didn’t have a clue who we was trying to get. Again he was happy to have Martial and Rashford. That was the plan.

No.. he does sit there. He’s a crap manager. Like they was crap player/managers for us.
Yeah, manager said during the preseason that if Lukaku or Pogba leaves they should be replaced, then again later said he wanted Lukaku replacement but somehow he was happy with Martial and Rashford.

Plenty of reasons to criticize Ole but people still invent things.

So do we have to abuse Sir Bobby Charlton, Sir Alex for hiring Moyes? As they were crap board members.
 

Enigma_87

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:houllier: At least read the post properly, it might be hard but at least try.
What do I need to read about?

You keep looking for excuses when Ole himself came out and said he's happy with the squad. He's a crap manager that managed 10 years in Norway, got relegated at Cardiff and was our worst appointment till date. Yet you still refuse to believe it. Let's see how it goes with the season advances and the schedule becomes even more congested.

Just one question, according to you - was he a bad appointment and if he was sacked at the end of the season with a new manager coming in and starting the rebuild would it have been better in the long run?
 

roonster09

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What do I need to read about?

You keep looking for excuses when Ole himself came out and said he's happy with the squad. He's a crap manager that managed 10 years in Norway, got relegated at Cardiff and was our worst appointment till date. Yet you still refuse to believe it. Let's see how it goes with the season advances and the schedule becomes even more congested.

Just one question, according to you - was he a bad appointment and if he was sacked at the end of the season with a new manager coming in and starting the rebuild would it have been better in the long run?
Yeah, it's not his fault in your eyes and it will never be. Always the board. Keep up the blind faith.
When you come up with crap like this then it's obvious you don't even read posts and blindly copy past whatever you have typed in notepad.

He is bad appointment, just like how all the 3 we appointed post SAF were bad ones. We are stuck in this infinite loop where we keep hiring poor managers.
 

Foxbatt

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I have no problems if we can't play tiki taka or thread a pass through the opposing defense.
But I DO have problems when we can't even get a corner right even once.
 

Mourinhonista

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Well who’s fault is that? Like I said with my Rojo point any of our players could go there and bad that team up. Piereira would probably look like Coutinho for them. The point it we didn’t lose because of quality, we lost because of no system and no confidence. But it’s all a mess. Chong has spent two seasons messing around in the reserves where he clearly needs a loan. We sent Andreas to the Spanish league twice and if we really wanted him to play this knuckle up football why wasn’t he sent on loan to Burnley? We are clueless and with no DOF all these failings fall on the manager.
Personally i'd focus on the quality of the players who were available and as aformentioned all four of them look really poor. Of course there are better coaches then Solskjaer out there, but the gap between who we could've got and him isn't as big as the gap between someone like Dembele and Pereira. United should have already cut their ties with Pereira, don't know why he's still here and playing. In most months Lingard doesn't even get one scorer point.

Why the club didn't want to add at least one quality attacking player to the lineup has to remain a mystery. Sancho, Dembele or Chiesa and the club would look so much better. Yedder scored vs. United and would have been a good goalscorer, but no, don't do it. The blame has to be put solely on the Glazers, they tell Woodward what to do.

I like Ole and the football at the start of this reign looked good to me. Furthermore he's trying to be always positive and put United under a positive limelight. That's what most people wanted. I liked Jose too, but he said it as it is and most people don't like that.
 

Wolff

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Yeah, it's not his fault in your eyes and it will never be. Always the board. Keep up the blind faith.
What’s with the blind faith? Stop making things up and pretend you are a world beater because you managed to win on FM. You have no clue what goes on at the club or in training. Last three matches have been shit. The players know it. The manager certainly knows it and the fans know it. Some seem to not grasp what being a supporter is. And the last thing the club needs is reactionary supporters like yourself trying to be cute. Come may, and things are shit. Have a Go. But now? It’s like Chapman day. Pure stupidity..
 

Enigma_87

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When you come up with crap like this then it's obvious you don't even read posts and blindly copy past whatever you have typed in notepad.
Well not really. I don't buy the excuse he wanted to replace Lukaku. He spent 150m in the Summer, he knew Lukaku was off and alienated him from the start. He said he's happy with the squad, he was happy with Rashford and Martial, he said Greenwood will get minutes and happy with his development. All of those point that he took the decision going into the season without a replacement for Lukaku.

There was rumors about Ben Yadder and that was it, I wouldn't even call Dybala a striker and Ben Yadder moved clubs this Summer. If we wanted him I'm pretty sure we would've gotten him.

He is bad appointment, just like how all the 3 we appointed post SAF were bad ones. We are stuck in this infinite loop where we keep hiring poor managers.
That doesn't mean we should give up.
 

Enigma_87

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What’s with the blind faith? Stop making things up and pretend you are a world beater because you managed to win on FM. You have no clue what goes on at the club or in training. Last three matches have been shit. The players know it. The manager certainly knows it and the fans know it. Some seem to not grasp what being a supporter is. And the last thing the club needs is reactionary supporters like yourself trying to be cute. Come may, and things are shit. Have a Go. But now? It’s like Chapman day. Pure stupidity..
So, since you have a clue, are you willing to bet that Ole makes it?

I have a clue what happens on the pitch in the last 9 months. Seems like you don't or refuse to see it.
 

roonster09

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Well not really. I don't buy the excuse he wanted to replace Lukaku. He spent 150m in the Summer, he knew Lukaku was off and alienated him from the start. He said he's happy with the squad, he was happy with Rashford and Martial, he said Greenwood will get minutes and happy with his development. All of those point that he took the decision going into the season without a replacement for Lukaku.

There was rumors about Ben Yadder and that was it, I wouldn't even call Dybala a striker and Ben Yadder moved clubs this Summer. If we wanted him I'm pretty sure we would've gotten him.
fecking hell same tedious arguments everyday. What's the point when everything is just ignored.


That doesn't mean we should give up.
No one said we should give up.
 

Enigma_87

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fecking hell same tedious arguments everyday. What's the point when everything is just ignored.
I really don't get it. I read your posts again. You said that he wanted a replacement for Lukaku, but then after that he said he's happy with the squad and players will get minutes and that Martial will be our striker. We didn't get linked with many players apart from Ben Yadder and Mandžukić - both of whom easily available. Why do you keep believing he didn't make the decision we were ok in attack as it is?
 

Djemba-Djemba

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We're as boring to watch now as we were under the worst of Van Gaal only now we lose more often too.

It's grim and what's worse is we've actually won 3 of the last 4 games, albeit 2 of them were against Astana and Rochdale, and yet I feel totally depressed about us.

We'll probably look back at these last few weeks as the best period of the season...
 

DomesticTadpole

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Problem is not criticizing Ole the manager, problem is always calling him silly names. Every fan rate manages differently, that's why we always have arguments but some bumbfeck calling him donkey, cretin is just pathetic.
I don't agree with the name calling. It really doesn't sit well with me. He is a nice bloke who is out of his depth. Say that, don't get personal.
 

Wolff

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So, since you have a clue, are you willing to bet that Ole makes it?

I have a clue what happens on the pitch in the last 9 months. Seems like you don't or refuse to see it.
Are you unable to respond to a post? I dont know if the team, the manager or the club makes it. No one does! Certainly not you!
Thats not the point. I have been around long enough in football to exerience that things often get worse before they come good. Thankfully fans at the stadium is still on board with reality, and people like yourself mostly get by un noticed. Only wish your mother didn’t allow you so much internet time, becouse this place is having a mare with posters like yourself.
 

roonster09

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I really don't get it. I read your posts again. You said that he wanted a replacement for Lukaku, but then after that he said he's happy with the squad and players will get minutes and that Martial will be our striker. We didn't get linked with many players apart from Ben Yadder and Mandžukić - both of whom easily available. Why do you keep believing he didn't make the decision we were ok in attack as it is?
So did you believe Jose was happy with not signing CB? You said at least Jose said he wanted CB in the media, same thing Ole did in not twattish way, saying he wanted Lukaku's replacement and before that players if they leave should be replaced when he was asked about Lukaku and Pogba.
 

Andycoleno9

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He has free ride from the mods. I wouldn't be surprised he gets promoted.
Ole had huge impact on that. He brought so many likes to newbies like wolf. Lets face it, it is easier to get like for being positive than negative. It is not dig on scouts, it is just like it is. And "support" and praise for your coach, players and tea lady, especially in dark times like this is positive stuff.
 

Bobcat

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"Lack of coaching"

I've probably seen this posted a hundred times now the last couple of days. "Lack of coaching"....what does it even mean? Do you think Ole, Phelan, Carrick and McKenna are just fecking around at Carrington? Letting the players run around freely while they sit and sip tea?

Anyone who has played football at any organized capacity know that it is not rocket science. If you play LB, MF or CF, even at 10 years old you largely know how to perform your role in the team, so its not like these players are completely unable to perform their role unless the manager tells them specifically how to do it. They are not toddlers! If you played football you also know that training is largely the same mundane stuff like fitness drills, technical drills or set pieces, and its not that different in top level football. Here the manager/coaches plays a part because they decide what they focus on so the team can improve in areas they need improving. Its a poorly kept secret that Ole was not happy with the fitness levels of the squad when he took over, and we heard rumors of players complaining about "running a lot" in training so we have to assume the focus has been fitness, which was clearly needed.

For what it's worth, i met a guy who is best mates with Daniel Berg Haestad (played under Ole in Molde) and he told me Ole mostly trusts his coaches to do training, while he observed in the back and very often he did not even show his face on the training field at all.

So because we have focused on fitness the last couple of months, does that mean that all prior knowledge or technical skill of these players just went out the window? No, im not buying that. And regarding our coaches, Ferguson kept Phelan around for years so hes clearly not some clueless clown. Carrick and McKenna i dont know, but Carrick is one of the most intelligent footballers i've seen play, so i have no doubt he knows a thing or two about how to organize a midfield

Then comes stuff like team selection and in game tactics. Team selection is not rocket science. Hell, every armchair expert on this forum has an opinion about it so i would go as far as saying team selections are easy and yes even the famous tea lady can do them. In game tactics is more tricky, but its not the end all be all of football management. I would say the best in class is probably Mouhrino. Hes a reactive tactician, but he regularly outfoxed Ferguson between 04-08 and even here we saw some glimpses of his tactical skills, like completely shutting down Hazard with Herrera which spawned a whole lot of memes. Ferguson was not even that great of a tactician, yet he will go down as the greatest manager of all time because he had two key skills:

Squad building and man management/leadership skills. Anyone read his book? Its a reason he went all over the world to hold leadership seminars because that is what made him a good manager. That and his ability to identify and recruit the right players was what made him so successful. If coaching/tactic is all it takes, then it means everyone can become a pro footballer and any decent manager can turn any league 1 side into world beaters only by the power of their training methods and divine tactical knowledge. If coaching and tactics is all there is, then it means Pep could make MK Dons PL winners, but we all know thats not true.

Pep and Klopp as an example are both pretty unique in the tactical department as they are breaking new ground with their tactical system, but do people here sincerely believe that alone is what makes City and Liverpool good? What sets City and Liverpool apart today is not tactics, its the fact that their players will run themselves into to the ground and they are also insanely talented. Because Pep and Klopp are great at building squads and they are great at motivating their players. Not because of some superb tactical secrets that we mere mortals can not understand.

Man management (or lack thereof) is the reason Jose failed here. When things did not go his way, he had a complete meltdown and we all know how shite the atmosphere was in and around the club. There is no doubt Jose is a great manager, but when things got as bad as they did, there was not really any other choice than letting him go. Then Ole came and we won 10 games in a row. That was probably more down to relief than Ole being a superb motivator, but it still happened. Not going to defend the recent results and the way we have been playing, because its been shite, but is that only down to Ole and his (lack of) man management? The players seems to love him, maybe he is to nice? My point is thats its a bit to early to tell if Ole can motivate his players or not. The second half of last season is a write off since the season was over by Christmas anyway so i would not read to much into what happened then, both positive or negative. This season has started really badly, but building a winning mentality is not done overnight, and even if you do have the ability to motivate and get the very best out of your players, you need the right type of players...which brings me to my last point

This squad is bad. Really, really bad. Its a hodgepodge of four former managers and it is painfully obvious that too many lack both the character and the skill to play for a club with high ambitions or they are simply past it. Giving Sanchez that massive contract also hurt us badly and caused a lot of unrest and unhappiness in the team since the other players found it unfair that a player that barely featured was paid 2x or 3x as much as them. Of all the bad decisions the club has made post Fergie, this was probably the worst one

Rojo, Baily and Jones are injury prone as feck, and despite showing glimpses of quality all of them regularly have brain farts, something you really dont want defenders to be having too often. Lindelof i dont know. He looked good for a while, but has now reverted to being timid and weak. Young is a good professional, but a former winger turned fullback and we all know hes past it. Tuanzebe and TFM are still very young so not much can be said about them.

That leaves Shaw, AWB and Maguire. The latter two have been our best defenders this season and both were brought here by Ole

Midfield is even worse. Fred, Pereira and Lindgaard are not Premier League quality players. Not even close. Mata and Matic are well past it, Gomes and Garner are unblooded teenagers, which leaves Pogba, McTomminay and James. We all know how good Pogba can be, but he seems to have some serious primadonna problems about him and seems to be more about himself than the team. McTomminay is alright, but not really someone we would have seen as a first team regular in a Fergie side. Then we have James, probably one of the few bright spots so far this season and he was brought here from the fecking Championship. When a Championship player comes in and shows up supposed PL stars then you know something is not right

We are super thin in attack, we knew this when the season started and now injuries have made it even worse. Rashford and Martial are alright, but they are both super inconsistent and Greenwood is just a kid. Pretty far from the days of Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov eh? Our squad is not top 4, its not even top 6. Thats how bad it has gotten. The game yesterday was pretty telling because usually in cup ties like these were PL sides face lower league teams you can clearly see the difference in quality between the players, but that was hard to see yesterday...simply because so many of these players are not that much better than the Rochdale players

Ole gutted the squad this summer and some of the responsibility lies with him, but most of it lies with Ed and the former managers. People say this is as bad as Moyes, but people seems to forget that Moyes inhereited the PL winners that had players like Rooney, RvP, Vidic, Nani, Kagawa and Evra. Players that would improve the current United immensely. Getting rid of so many players at once has left us utterly bare bones, but it had to be done sooner or later and its clear this was about thinking in the long term rather than the short term. Ole says hes happy with the squad to the press, but thats clearly not true and the alternative would be to say "No most of these players are shite and are going to get axed pretty soon" does not build squad harmony does it? If Ole is actually happy with the squad, then hes an idiot and there is simply no hope, but i really doubt that is the case.

Considering the dire state our club and our squad was in, making us look good again within one summer was always an impossible task. Out net spend this summer was only 70 million, but i'd rather we spend time and sign the right players, rather than sign more players like Fred, Sanchez, Matic and Lukaku. And as i said, there is no way Ole can be happy with the current squad. If he is, then hes clearly insane

Now, this wall of text is not some grand defense from some Ole fanboy. To be honest, if he was sacked tomorrow and replaced with Poch, i would be just as happy. But i really doubt changing managers now would do us any good. So hypothetically, say we get Poch and he fails to get into the top 4? "Unacceptable. Sack him" cries the Caf. Hes been at Spurs 5 years now and they have started the season just as badly as us, with a much better squad. He would come in, fail to get into top 4 because the team is not even a halfway finished article, then the fans would turn on him because nothing but instant success is good enough it seems.

After the summer we all knew it was going to be a long and painful season. The second we see signs of players downing tools because Ole cant motivate them, or if Ole is truly happy with the squad hes got here, then he needs to be replaced immediately, but right now i dont see what benefits that would bring. We cant go on sacking and hiring new managers every 1-2 years, especially now consider the state of our squad. As i said, i would be just as happy if we got Poch tomorrow, but when he failed to get into the top 4 come May, the narrative would shift from him being a savior to "the job being to big for him" or something like that and we would start looking for yet another manager
 

Chaky_Best

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We'll finish 8th or 9th in the league, we'll be out next round against Chelsea, we'll lose in Feb/March in Europa league against a supposed weaker side, and Ole will be out this summer.

As much as we loved him as player, we must start putting our feelings on the side, and checking the reality.

If it was United's Mourinho against Rochdale, it would have been a massive call out.

He's not strong enough to put a stamp on this side, didn't had enough material to work with this summer and he'll be inevitably gone this summer
 

edgar allan

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We're as boring to watch now as we were under the worst of Van Gaal only now we lose more often too.

It's grim and what's worse is we've actually won 3 of the last 4 games, albeit 2 of them were against Astana and Rochdale, and yet I feel totally depressed about us.

We'll probably look back at these last few weeks as the best period of the season...
Things are not good but we are not as boring to watch as LVG, nowhere near.
 

DomesticTadpole

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"Lack of coaching"

I've probably seen this posted a hundred times now the last couple of days. "Lack of coaching"....what does it even mean? Do you think Ole, Phelan, Carrick and McKenna are just fecking around at Carrington? Letting the players run around freely while they sit and sip tea?

Anyone who has played football at any organized capacity know that it is not rocket science. If you play LB, MF or CF, even at 10 years old you largely know how to perform your role in the team, so its not like these players are completely unable to perform their role unless the manager tells them specifically how to do it. They are not toddlers! If you played football you also know that training is largely the same mundane stuff like fitness drills, technical drills or set pieces, and its not that different in top level football. Here the manager/coaches plays a part because they decide what they focus on so the team can improve in areas they need improving. Its a poorly kept secret that Ole was not happy with the fitness levels of the squad when he took over, and we heard rumors of players complaining about "running a lot" in training so we have to assume the focus has been fitness, which was clearly needed.

For what it's worth, i met a guy who is best mates with Daniel Berg Haestad (played under Ole in Molde) and he told me Ole mostly trusts his coaches to do training, while he observed in the back and very often he did not even show his face on the training field at all.

So because we have focused on fitness the last couple of months, does that mean that all prior knowledge or technical skill of these players just went out the window? No, im not buying that. And regarding our coaches, Ferguson kept Phelan around for years so hes clearly not some clueless clown. Carrick and McKenna i dont know, but Carrick is one of the most intelligent footballers i've seen play, so i have no doubt he knows a thing or two about how to organize a midfield

Then comes stuff like team selection and in game tactics. Team selection is not rocket science. Hell, every armchair expert on this forum has an opinion about it so i would go as far as saying team selections are easy and yes even the famous tea lady can do them. In game tactics is more tricky, but its not the end all be all of football management. I would say the best in class is probably Mouhrino. Hes a reactive tactician, but he regularly outfoxed Ferguson between 04-08 and even here we saw some glimpses of his tactical skills, like completely shutting down Hazard with Herrera which spawned a whole lot of memes. Ferguson was not even that great of a tactician, yet he will go down as the greatest manager of all time because he had two key skills:

Squad building and man management/leadership skills. Anyone read his book? Its a reason he went all over the world to hold leadership seminars because that is what made him a good manager. That and his ability to identify and recruit the right players was what made him so successful. If coaching/tactic is all it takes, then it means everyone can become a pro footballer and any decent manager can turn any league 1 side into world beaters only by the power of their training methods and divine tactical knowledge. If coaching and tactics is all there is, then it means Pep could make MK Dons PL winners, but we all know thats not true.

Pep and Klopp as an example are both pretty unique in the tactical department as they are breaking new ground with their tactical system, but do people here sincerely believe that alone is what makes City and Liverpool good? What sets City and Liverpool apart today is not tactics, its the fact that their players will run themselves into to the ground and they are also insanely talented. Because Pep and Klopp are great at building squads and they are great at motivating their players. Not because of some superb tactical secrets that we mere mortals can not understand.

Man management (or lack thereof) is the reason Jose failed here. When things did not go his way, he had a complete meltdown and we all know how shite the atmosphere was in and around the club. There is no doubt Jose is a great manager, but when things got as bad as they did, there was not really any other choice than letting him go. Then Ole came and we won 10 games in a row. That was probably more down to relief than Ole being a superb motivator, but it still happened. Not going to defend the recent results and the way we have been playing, because its been shite, but is that only down to Ole and his (lack of) man management? The players seems to love him, maybe he is to nice? My point is thats its a bit to early to tell if Ole can motivate his players or not. The second half of last season is a write off since the season was over by Christmas anyway so i would not read to much into what happened then, both positive or negative. This season has started really badly, but building a winning mentality is not done overnight, and even if you do have the ability to motivate and get the very best out of your players, you need the right type of players...which brings me to my last point

This squad is bad. Really, really bad. Its a hodgepodge of four former managers and it is painfully obvious that too many lack both the character and the skill to play for a club with high ambitions or they are simply past it. Giving Sanchez that massive contract also hurt us badly and caused a lot of unrest and unhappiness in the team since the other players found it unfair that a player that barely featured was paid 2x or 3x as much as them. Of all the bad decisions the club has made post Fergie, this was probably the worst one

Rojo, Baily and Jones are injury prone as feck, and despite showing glimpses of quality all of them regularly have brain farts, something you really dont want defenders to be having too often. Lindelof i dont know. He looked good for a while, but has now reverted to being timid and weak. Young is a good professional, but a former winger turned fullback and we all know hes past it. Tuanzebe and TFM are still very young so not much can be said about them.

That leaves Shaw, AWB and Maguire. The latter two have been our best defenders this season and both were brought here by Ole

Midfield is even worse. Fred, Pereira and Lindgaard are not Premier League quality players. Not even close. Mata and Matic are well past it, Gomes and Garner are unblooded teenagers, which leaves Pogba, McTomminay and James. We all know how good Pogba can be, but he seems to have some serious primadonna problems about him and seems to be more about himself than the team. McTomminay is alright, but not really someone we would have seen as a first team regular in a Fergie side. Then we have James, probably one of the few bright spots so far this season and he was brought here from the fecking Championship. When a Championship player comes in and shows up supposed PL stars then you know something is not right

We are super thin in attack, we knew this when the season started and now injuries have made it even worse. Rashford and Martial are alright, but they are both super inconsistent and Greenwood is just a kid. Pretty far from the days of Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov eh? Our squad is not top 4, its not even top 6. Thats how bad it has gotten. The game yesterday was pretty telling because usually in cup ties like these were PL sides face lower league teams you can clearly see the difference in quality between the players, but that was hard to see yesterday...simply because so many of these players are not that much better than the Rochdale players

Ole gutted the squad this summer and some of the responsibility lies with him, but most of it lies with Ed and the former managers. People say this is as bad as Moyes, but people seems to forget that Moyes inhereited the PL winners that had players like Rooney, RvP, Vidic, Nani, Kagawa and Evra. Players that would improve the current United immensely. Getting rid of so many players at once has left us utterly bare bones, but it had to be done sooner or later and its clear this was about thinking in the long term rather than the short term. Ole says hes happy with the squad to the press, but thats clearly not true and the alternative would be to say "No most of these players are shite and are going to get axed pretty soon" does not build squad harmony does it? If Ole is actually happy with the squad, then hes an idiot and there is simply no hope, but i really doubt that is the case.

Considering the dire state our club and our squad was in, making us look good again within one summer was always an impossible task. Out net spend this summer was only 70 million, but i'd rather we spend time and sign the right players, rather than sign more players like Fred, Sanchez, Matic and Lukaku. And as i said, there is no way Ole can be happy with the current squad. If he is, then hes clearly insane

Now, this wall of text is not some grand defense from some Ole fanboy. To be honest, if he was sacked tomorrow and replaced with Poch, i would be just as happy. But i really doubt changing managers now would do us any good. So hypothetically, say we get Poch and he fails to get into the top 4? "Unacceptable. Sack him" cries the Caf. Hes been at Spurs 5 years now and they have started the season just as badly as us, with a much better squad. He would come in, fail to get into top 4 because the team is not even a halfway finished article, then the fans would turn on him because nothing but instant success is good enough it seems.

After the summer we all knew it was going to be a long and painful season. The second we see signs of players downing tools because Ole cant motivate them, or if Ole is truly happy with the squad hes got here, then he needs to be replaced immediately, but right now i dont see what benefits that would bring. We cant go on sacking and hiring new managers every 1-2 years, especially now consider the state of our squad. As i said, i would be just as happy if we got Poch tomorrow, but when he failed to get into the top 4 come May, the narrative would shift from him being a savior to "the job being to big for him" or something like that and we would start looking for yet another manager
Think a lot of people have been scathing of the coaches and their quality. If it is true that Ole does take a back seat and leaves them to it then that says a lot. To do that you need top quality coaches.
 

StrettyEnder07

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Christ all bloody mighty, could not actually believe what I was watching last night, you have to feel sorry for the kids because they have these "senior players" next to them, they must be thinking guys you are absolute tripe!

Being carried by a 17 year old year, Tuanzebe needs to be given game time now, arguably our best bloody CB and is defo far more solid than Lindelof. That's it for me, if Ole does not realise that Greenwood/Gomes/Tuanzebe should be starting ahead of the likes of Rashford, Lingard, Pereira, Mata then I am lost for words.

Absolutely comical last night, Chelsea away next haha you could not make it up!
 

Djemba-Djemba

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Things are not good but we are not as boring to watch as LVG, nowhere near.
I never thought we could get as boring as we were under Van Gaal but so far this season I think we're there or thereabouts in terms of dullness.

Take the Chelsea game out of it and we're scoring 1 goal a game and in the League itself we're barely creating anything.
 

red4ever 79

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Obviously things going on behind the scenes as well now. Tuanzebe being selected captain ahead of Pogba tonight, Pogba not even taking one of the penalties. All is not rosy behind the scenes
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
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Messages
36,889
Nah, personally i am just trying to find some fun in this depressing situation. And i have really really slow day at work
Yeah depressing times. It's so hard to watch this club being ripped apart. Great man took this club to greatest heights and worked for 26-27 years, after that Woodward and co just ripped it apart in 5-6 years.

Hopefully at least the next manager will be good one who can set the team to play attacking and fearless football.
 

Halal Jalal

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Enough is enough. He's been here since December and we're worse than we've ever been in PL era. Absolutely non-existent attacking patterns, defensive cohesion, tactical substitutions... the team doesn't even look like it's coached.
Plan A: Pass it to Pogba and pray he does everything on his own (he usually does)
Plan B: Hoof it to "Rashy" and pray he doesn't trip over his own feet in goalscoring chance (he usually does)

Just look at Ole, he's aged 10 years since the bad form started. You can tell he genuinely cares but has no clue what do to, he needs to be put out of his misery. He should be a shooting coach or something if he wants to be involved with the club, teaching the young strikers not to sh*t their pants in front of goal. People rightfully complained about Moyes but he was just a midtable manager who delivered midtable playstyle and midtable results. Simply a bad appointment. I'm not saying that Ole is a crap manager - I'm saying that he's not a manager at all. Laughable appointment.
 

Yagami

Good post resistant
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
13,706
Excuse me?
It's just from your posts you come across as quite condescending and rude.

Like, even if I don't agree with your initial points in regards to United, the points/opinions themselves are fine. Nothing wrong with that. It's just the sly digs of saying "real fans", claiming someone else's opinion is stupid, insinuating people should be embarrassed for having an opinion that you may disagree with, outright saying that a post is shit, etc..

Again, I have nothing against your opinion on our current situation, but you could be a bit more civil to those you disagree with. After all, we are all on the same side in terms of wanting what's best for United.
 

Strelok

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Jan 10, 2018
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5,279
"Lack of coaching"

I've probably seen this posted a hundred times now the last couple of days. "Lack of coaching"....what does it even mean? Do you think Ole, Phelan, Carrick and McKenna are just fecking around at Carrington? Letting the players run around freely while they sit and sip tea?

Anyone who has played football at any organized capacity know that it is not rocket science. If you play LB, MF or CF, even at 10 years old you largely know how to perform your role in the team, so its not like these players are completely unable to perform their role unless the manager tells them specifically how to do it. They are not toddlers! If you played football you also know that training is largely the same mundane stuff like fitness drills, technical drills or set pieces, and its not that different in top level football. Here the manager/coaches plays a part because they decide what they focus on so the team can improve in areas they need improving. Its a poorly kept secret that Ole was not happy with the fitness levels of the squad when he took over, and we heard rumors of players complaining about "running a lot" in training so we have to assume the focus has been fitness, which was clearly needed.

For what it's worth, i met a guy who is best mates with Daniel Berg Haestad (played under Ole in Molde) and he told me Ole mostly trusts his coaches to do training, while he observed in the back and very often he did not even show his face on the training field at all.

So because we have focused on fitness the last couple of months, does that mean that all prior knowledge or technical skill of these players just went out the window? No, im not buying that. And regarding our coaches, Ferguson kept Phelan around for years so hes clearly not some clueless clown. Carrick and McKenna i dont know, but Carrick is one of the most intelligent footballers i've seen play, so i have no doubt he knows a thing or two about how to organize a midfield

Then comes stuff like team selection and in game tactics. Team selection is not rocket science. Hell, every armchair expert on this forum has an opinion about it so i would go as far as saying team selections are easy and yes even the famous tea lady can do them. In game tactics is more tricky, but its not the end all be all of football management. I would say the best in class is probably Mouhrino. Hes a reactive tactician, but he regularly outfoxed Ferguson between 04-08 and even here we saw some glimpses of his tactical skills, like completely shutting down Hazard with Herrera which spawned a whole lot of memes. Ferguson was not even that great of a tactician, yet he will go down as the greatest manager of all time because he had two key skills:

Squad building and man management/leadership skills. Anyone read his book? Its a reason he went all over the world to hold leadership seminars because that is what made him a good manager. That and his ability to identify and recruit the right players was what made him so successful. If coaching/tactic is all it takes, then it means everyone can become a pro footballer and any decent manager can turn any league 1 side into world beaters only by the power of their training methods and divine tactical knowledge. If coaching and tactics is all there is, then it means Pep could make MK Dons PL winners, but we all know thats not true.

Pep and Klopp as an example are both pretty unique in the tactical department as they are breaking new ground with their tactical system, but do people here sincerely believe that alone is what makes City and Liverpool good? What sets City and Liverpool apart today is not tactics, its the fact that their players will run themselves into to the ground and they are also insanely talented. Because Pep and Klopp are great at building squads and they are great at motivating their players. Not because of some superb tactical secrets that we mere mortals can not understand.

Man management (or lack thereof) is the reason Jose failed here. When things did not go his way, he had a complete meltdown and we all know how shite the atmosphere was in and around the club. There is no doubt Jose is a great manager, but when things got as bad as they did, there was not really any other choice than letting him go. Then Ole came and we won 10 games in a row. That was probably more down to relief than Ole being a superb motivator, but it still happened. Not going to defend the recent results and the way we have been playing, because its been shite, but is that only down to Ole and his (lack of) man management? The players seems to love him, maybe he is to nice? My point is thats its a bit to early to tell if Ole can motivate his players or not. The second half of last season is a write off since the season was over by Christmas anyway so i would not read to much into what happened then, both positive or negative. This season has started really badly, but building a winning mentality is not done overnight, and even if you do have the ability to motivate and get the very best out of your players, you need the right type of players...which brings me to my last point

This squad is bad. Really, really bad. Its a hodgepodge of four former managers and it is painfully obvious that too many lack both the character and the skill to play for a club with high ambitions or they are simply past it. Giving Sanchez that massive contract also hurt us badly and caused a lot of unrest and unhappiness in the team since the other players found it unfair that a player that barely featured was paid 2x or 3x as much as them. Of all the bad decisions the club has made post Fergie, this was probably the worst one

Rojo, Baily and Jones are injury prone as feck, and despite showing glimpses of quality all of them regularly have brain farts, something you really dont want defenders to be having too often. Lindelof i dont know. He looked good for a while, but has now reverted to being timid and weak. Young is a good professional, but a former winger turned fullback and we all know hes past it. Tuanzebe and TFM are still very young so not much can be said about them.

That leaves Shaw, AWB and Maguire. The latter two have been our best defenders this season and both were brought here by Ole

Midfield is even worse. Fred, Pereira and Lindgaard are not Premier League quality players. Not even close. Mata and Matic are well past it, Gomes and Garner are unblooded teenagers, which leaves Pogba, McTomminay and James. We all know how good Pogba can be, but he seems to have some serious primadonna problems about him and seems to be more about himself than the team. McTomminay is alright, but not really someone we would have seen as a first team regular in a Fergie side. Then we have James, probably one of the few bright spots so far this season and he was brought here from the fecking Championship. When a Championship player comes in and shows up supposed PL stars then you know something is not right

We are super thin in attack, we knew this when the season started and now injuries have made it even worse. Rashford and Martial are alright, but they are both super inconsistent and Greenwood is just a kid. Pretty far from the days of Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov eh? Our squad is not top 4, its not even top 6. Thats how bad it has gotten. The game yesterday was pretty telling because usually in cup ties like these were PL sides face lower league teams you can clearly see the difference in quality between the players, but that was hard to see yesterday...simply because so many of these players are not that much better than the Rochdale players

Ole gutted the squad this summer and some of the responsibility lies with him, but most of it lies with Ed and the former managers. People say this is as bad as Moyes, but people seems to forget that Moyes inhereited the PL winners that had players like Rooney, RvP, Vidic, Nani, Kagawa and Evra. Players that would improve the current United immensely. Getting rid of so many players at once has left us utterly bare bones, but it had to be done sooner or later and its clear this was about thinking in the long term rather than the short term. Ole says hes happy with the squad to the press, but thats clearly not true and the alternative would be to say "No most of these players are shite and are going to get axed pretty soon" does not build squad harmony does it? If Ole is actually happy with the squad, then hes an idiot and there is simply no hope, but i really doubt that is the case.

Considering the dire state our club and our squad was in, making us look good again within one summer was always an impossible task. Out net spend this summer was only 70 million, but i'd rather we spend time and sign the right players, rather than sign more players like Fred, Sanchez, Matic and Lukaku. And as i said, there is no way Ole can be happy with the current squad. If he is, then hes clearly insane

Now, this wall of text is not some grand defense from some Ole fanboy. To be honest, if he was sacked tomorrow and replaced with Poch, i would be just as happy. But i really doubt changing managers now would do us any good. So hypothetically, say we get Poch and he fails to get into the top 4? "Unacceptable. Sack him" cries the Caf. Hes been at Spurs 5 years now and they have started the season just as badly as us, with a much better squad. He would come in, fail to get into top 4 because the team is not even a halfway finished article, then the fans would turn on him because nothing but instant success is good enough it seems.

After the summer we all knew it was going to be a long and painful season. The second we see signs of players downing tools because Ole cant motivate them, or if Ole is truly happy with the squad hes got here, then he needs to be replaced immediately, but right now i dont see what benefits that would bring. We cant go on sacking and hiring new managers every 1-2 years, especially now consider the state of our squad. As i said, i would be just as happy if we got Poch tomorrow, but when he failed to get into the top 4 come May, the narrative would shift from him being a savior to "the job being to big for him" or something like that and we would start looking for yet another manager
Mother WOT but great post, can't agree more.
All I hope now is Jan comes quickly and we'd get a good CM, a really good one I hope.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Aug 21, 2012
Messages
17,246
Amazing how many manager appointments we have fecked up. Might take long time before we get the right one.
The scary part is that this one was so obvious it'd fail and yet the board still employed him.

I mean did the club not fecking learn from Moyes at all?

Did they just pretend that never happened?
 

wrtm

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Nov 6, 2017
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We're as boring to watch now as we were under the worst of Van Gaal only now we lose more often too.

It's grim and what's worse is we've actually won 3 of the last 4 games, albeit 2 of them were against Astana and Rochdale, and yet I feel totally depressed about us.

We'll probably look back at these last few weeks as the best period of the season...
What really makes me confused is why Ole still using that 2 CM formation. We don't have a proper AMF so this formation doesn't going to work in many ways. In my opinion, the best midfield line up with what we have now is 3 CM formation, with 1 DMF
 
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