Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[7even]

This old song and dance, eh? This club has been around for 141-years and you managed to list our two most successful managers of all time. In other words; outliers. The statistical and practical (based on what we've seen) likelihood that Solskjaer is going to be able to replicate even a modicum of the aforementioned legends' success is highly unlikely. The fact of the matter is, managers get sacked all of the time for being subpar and incompetent. I'm not going to sit here and claim that every decision to do so was, is and will be justified, but very much like players, top level managers are scarce. The revolving door is always in motion and for good reason.

Let's look at our first season post Sir Alex, shall we. By the end of the 2013/14 season, 12 Premier League managers had been sacked. Twelve. Take a gander at this casualty list below.

Paulo Di Canio
Ian Halloway
Martin Jol
Steve Clarke
Andre Villas-Boas
Malky Mackay
Michael Laudrup
Rene Meulensteen
Chris Hughton
David Moyes (shudders)
Pepe Mel
Tim Sherwood

What an inspiring list of managerial powerhouses. I suppose they should have all been granted 3-5 years and unmitigated access to their respective club's funds.

Unfortunately for us, Ole and any future manager, our owners and upper management are rotten to the core. However, that's not to say a superior manager wouldn't be helpful. I mean, we had zero shots on target against AZ Alkmaar and Ole publicly claimed it was a "good performance." Have I've been smacked over the head and sent back in time to "Moyes' Boys" era? I get it, we fielded a young squad so giving them a bit of motherly love makes sense. Unfortunately, it's not something that inspires a lot of confidence in the context of his time here as a permanent manager.

His gleeful facade started to crack many moons ago and he's had to resort to full-on denial. It's the pitch, it's bad luck, it's the ref, it's this, it's that, I forgot to my lucky tie in the wash. Obligatory statement where I state that Ole is one my favorite strikers of all time (he is), but this constant barrage of thinly veiled excuses is downright insulting.

Quality post.

Apart from all above every manager needs a portion of luck and timing to truly succeed. In a period of three month as a interim manager Ole had timing and all the luck in the world. His first ten games and the away game against PSG involves all the ingredients of timing, luck and the momentum going in his favor. Just so there is no misunderstandings. At that time he was the right person to help us out as a caretaker and he did nothing wrong.

This season we see the other side of the spectra. Missed penalties, injuries and a squad without its initial energy level and motivation and together with his competence as a coach the results is the opposite of his first period as a caretaker.

People who knows what they’re doing can overcome periods of setbacks and unlucky moments. Time works in their favor. When you don’t have what it’s takes time is your worst enemy.

 

[el3mel]

The fact that some are bringing Fergie and Sir Matt in Ole discussion to tell us to wait for him several more years is just beyond comical this time. Do they really believe in their mind that Ole will become Fergie MK2 5 years from now?

 

[dogwithabone]

I’m all for a bit of stability and long termism but OGS has had approaching a year at the helm and I cannot see any clear identity to our play. What are we ? Possession based ? Counter attacking ? High press ? Long ball ? I honestly couldn’t say, it’s a mishmash from one week to the next.

I thought I read somewhere that he wanted to implement a high pressing, energetic game but we have, quite literally, one midfielder only who is remotely capable of playing that way. Further upfield we have two, Rashford and James, who will press but that’s it.

Most incoming managers after six months you will see something happening whereby further down the line you can visualise the formation of a proper team. I’m just not seeing that all.

 

[zenith]

I'm still inclined to give him a couple of more transfer windows ( Jan and summer). Right now, no decent manager is available and if we sack ole then Carrick would be in charge till the end of the season. Now, what would be the point in that.

This season was always going to be a write off and I'd say anyone would did not see that coming is a bit too optimistic. Fully agree that ole is not the guy for us in the long run but I would trust him with the rebuild of the squad and basically trimming the deadwood.

Also we should wait to see how the results are once pogba and martial are back. Most teams would struggle with their two most attacking players being out injured.

 

[edgar allan]

Dug this post up, because the forum permanently needs a reminder.

Or he might not be a great manager and we will have wasted 3-4 years?

 

[Oldham]

I'm not sure.
He seems to be out of his league but can we keep on sacking managers?

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

I'm still inclined to give him a couple of more transfer windows ( Jan and summer). Right now, no decent manager is available and if we sack ole then Carrick would be in charge till the end of the season. Now, what would be the point in that.

This season was always going to be a write off and I'd say anyone would did not see that coming is a bit too optimistic. Fully agree that ole is not the guy for us in the long run but I would trust him with the rebuild of the squad and basically trimming the deadwood.

Also we should wait to see how the results are once pogba and martial are back. Most teams would struggle with their two most attacking players being out injured.

There are always risks. What if it doesnt work out and a new more experienced manager comes in who believes more in experience rather then youth which at that point in time will consist of atleast 50 procent of the squad... a new rebuild phase? The cycle would then start all over again, with phase 1 entailing that the manager needs time only before time will reach phase 2, where fans will call for the managers job because of poor results. Thats United in a nut shell post Sir Alex.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm not sure.
He seems to be out of his league but can we keep on sacking managers?

Yes we can keep on sacking managers, everyone does it included the most successful teams. If a manager isn't good, he simply isn't good.

 

[Oldham]

Yes we can keep on sacking managers, everyone does it included the most successful teams. If a manager isn't good, he simply isn't good.

That's not true...
Successful teams tend to stick to their manager..
We did for 30 years or something...

 

[Judas]

I just can't understand anyone thinking we should give this bloke years in charge. He's shown nothing in his entire career to suggest he's the right person for the job. It's like a Mcdonalds working turning up at Apple headquarters and getting the job as CEO because he's got a lot of iPhones.

 

[JPRouve]

That's not true...
Successful teams tend to stick to their manager..
We did for 30 years or something...

That's not the norm, we were a massive anomaly. At the first sign of bad results managers are on the hot seat in the vast majority of clubs.

 

[DomM]

There is nothing to show that OGS is a good manager, he had a terrible time at Cardiff and so far hasnt shown he has the quality to manage Utd. It's all very well bringing in youngsters but the play is awful, no pattern to our play, where are we heading, playing players out of position and persisting with players that quite clearly aren't good enough.

So far it hasnt been particularly impressive especially as the style of play is so poor and boring but let's see at the end of the season.

 

[Bosnian_fan]

There are always risks. What if it doesnt work out and a new more experienced manager comes in who believes more in experience rather then youth which at that point in time will consist of atleast 50 procent of the squad... a new rebuild phase? The cycle would then start all over again, with phase 1 entailing that the manager needs time only before time will reach phase 2, where fans will call for the managers job because of poor results. Thats United in a nut shell post Sir Alex.

And that's exactly how this club has been run for years. That simply doesn't happen because, well, you find a manager that believes in youth. That's easy to do, even clubs in smaller leagues that have far more difficulties than Manchester United are able to outline a philosophy that surpasses any individual. If a club is all about attacking football and promoting youth players, than you simply appoint a manager able to play attacking, progressing football, and who has proven record of promoting youth.

Contrary to some people's beliefs, there are people who actually track these things, and neither manager appointment is made out of the blue. Manchester United is hiring without any coherent plan.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I'm not sure.
He seems to be out of his league but can we keep on sacking managers?

Yes if we're looking more likely to finish bottom half and near relegation than top four.

 

[Wolff]

This old song and dance, eh? This club has been around for 141-years and you've managed to list our two most successful managers of all time. In other words; outliers. The statistical and practical (based on what we've seen) likelihood that Solskjaer is going to be able to replicate even a modicum of the aforementioned legends' success is highly unlikely. The fact of the matter is, managers get sacked all of the time for being subpar and incompetent. I'm not going to sit here and claim that every decision to do so was, is and will be justified, but very much like players, top level managers are scarce. The revolving door is always in motion and for good reason.

Let's look at our first season post Sir Alex, shall we. By the end of the 2013/14 season, 12 Premier League managers had been sacked. Twelve. Take a gander at this casualty list below.

Paulo Di Canio
Ian Halloway
Martin Jol
Steve Clarke
Andre Villas-Boas
Malky Mackay
Michael Laudrup
Rene Meulensteen
Chris Hughton
David Moyes (shudders)
Pepe Mel
Tim Sherwood

What an inspiring list of managerial powerhouses. I suppose they should have all been granted 3-5 years and unmitigated access to their respective club's funds.

Unfortunately for us, Ole and any future manager, our owners and upper management are rotten to the core. However, that's not to say a superior manager wouldn't be helpful. I mean, we had zero shots on target against AZ Alkmaar and Ole publicly claimed it was a "good performance." Have I've been smacked over the head and sent back in time to "Moyes' Boys" era? I get it, we fielded a young squad so giving them a bit of motherly love makes sense. Unfortunately, it's not something that inspires a lot of confidence in the context of his time here as a permanent manager.

His gleeful facade started to crack many moons ago and he's had to resort to full-on denial. It's the pitch, it's bad luck, it's the ref, it's this, it's that, I forgot to my lucky tie in the wash. Obligatory statement where I state that Ole is one my favorite strikers of all time (he is), but this constant barrage of thinly veiled excuses is downright insulting.

And you could flip that coin. The same people who go out and calling Ole shit manager are the same people who say you can’t call the three signings a success in such short time. Total hypocrisy. And through history of football,I can not remember a single manager who had success without actually assembling their own team and football philosophy. Maybe Pepe and Zidane in Spain, to some extent. But they where also part of the club set up before.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Ole will be our Di Matteo this season and he'll be gone sometime in November if these poor performances continue.

United would be wise to start looking for (another) caretaker manager.

 

[dove]

I wonder what the excuse will be after yet another game where we drop points against shite team like Newcastle. Surely “but... but.... they have a better squad” is not gonna work, will need to get a bit more creative.

 

[AlwaysRed66]

Ole will be our Di Matteo this season and he'll be gone sometime in November if these poor performances continue.

United would be wise to start looking for (another) caretaker manager.

You mean the same Di Matteo that won the Champions League. We could only wish.

 

[Wolff]

Quality post.

Apart from all above every manager needs a portion of luck and timing to truly succeed. In a period of three month as a interim manager Ole had timing and all the luck in the world. His first ten games and the away game against PSG involves all the ingredients of timing, luck and the momentum going in his favor. Just so there is no misunderstandings. At that time he was the right person to help us out as a caretaker and he did nothing wrong.

This season we see the other side of the spectra. Missed penalties, injuries and a squad without its initial energy level and motivation and together with his competence as a coach the results is the opposite of his first period as a caretaker.

People who knows what they’re doing can overcome periods of setbacks and unlucky moments. Time works in their favor. When you don’t have what it’s takes time is your worst enemy.

Simply wrong. There has been done in depth analysis on what and when Ole changed things. What he got was a team of players going for it and doing the task asked they where asked. You don’t see that now, the team is unable to recreate. The theory behind that by the most active and reactionary 10 posters on here, who post on the borderline of spamming, is that Ole has coached it out of them. He has gone from good tactics to worse. He knew what he was doing back in February, but some how forgot. Or it was just down to luck. That is simply not true.

 

[FrankDrebin]

You mean the same Di Matteo that won the Champions League. We could only wish.

I was more comparing Ole with Di Matteo who later signed on as fulltime manager after the success with the CL.
Another sentimental appointment.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Your hatred towards Pogba is something else. Now you're turning Pogba playing while injured into an attack on posters for merely calling you and others (who were wrong about him not giving his all) out.

Erm I wasn’t just talking about Pogba there so don’t get your knickers in a twist.

 

[red4ever 79]

Our worst start ever to a Premier league season. Havent won away from home since March. Since that last win against PSG in terms of competitive games
P22
W6
L10
D6

That form alone should be the reason why he should be fired, and if it wasnt a former Utd player, he would have been

 

[chb23]

I think we need to keep him. I don't mind his long term vision/player recruitment. We can't keep changing managers and style.

Keep him for another 2-3 Windows where we pull in similar players to Maguire, AWB, James. Then switch to a better manager.

 

[FrankDrebin]

What "style" ?
If we had a evident playing style ,which was good on the eyes, Ole and his staff would be getting far more leeway.

 

[JK-27]

I think we need to keep him. I don't mind his long term vision/player recruitment. We can't keep changing managers and style.

Keep him for another 2-3 Windows where we pull in similar players to Maguire, AWB, James. Then switch to a better manager.

But what if that manager wants to play a different style and needs different players to do it? Or prefers other players to those brought in under Ole? Your logic makes no sense. You're not talking about a manager anymore, you're talking about a coach who works with the players given to him. And if he can't win with those players he's sacked until we find a manager who can win with the players Utd have bought. That's a dangerous road to go down.

 

[Enigma_87]

We can and should improve on Woodward. But my bigger concern about him is the overarching vision of the club and selection of managers. If we need a DoF or CEO to help Ole 'unearth' well known players like the ones City and Liverpool have signed we are delusional. Liverpool signed Mane Firmino while we signed Memphis and co. They picked better players coached them better. There are things the manager simply has to be accountable for, and can't pass on to the club.

I think it’s also a huge chunk on the board, along with Woodward - choosing the manager that is.

I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[VP89]

But what if that manager wants to play a different style and needs different players to do it? Or prefers other players to those brought in under Ole? Your logic makes no sense. You're not talking about a manager anymore, you're talking about a coach who works with the players given to him. And if he can't win with those players he's sacked until we find a manager who can win with the players Utd have bought. That's a dangerous road to go down.

Which is why you start the road right. Our rebuild has not yet started given 2/3rds of our side needs a serious revamp.

Its abundantly clear Ole isn't the guy for the job. I'd rather see a proven coach instead who can be involved in the rebuild earlier, I. E. Before the Summer window.

 

[NYAS]

I was on the fence during this rough period but he lost me after his comments on Thursday night.

Choosing to take the fans for mugs and being delusional has nothing to do with Ed Woodward.

When he came in he was all about “we’re Man United” and “we’ve got high standards” and suddenly you don’t hear that anymore. You hear stuff like the West Ham game “could have gone either way” and that because Alkmaar beat Feyenoord, a draw at their place is “a good point away from home” and that he was pleased with a performance in which Manchester United had zero shots on target.

It’s a very different Ole and one I had desperately hoped we would never see, but at the same time, sadly predictable. It must be incredibly depressing for him to see his dream crashing down and to finally realise he isn’t good enough for the job he’s always wanted. But that doesn’t mean he has to take us with him on his merry ride of self-deceipt in an alternate reality just so he can have a coping mechanism for his failure.

 

[red4ever 79]

I was on the fence during this rough period but he lost me after his comments on Thursday night.

Choosing to take the fans for mugs and being delusional has nothing to do with Ed Woodward.

When he came in he was all about “we’re Man United” and “we’ve got high standards” and suddenly you don’t hear that anymore. You hear stuff like the West Ham game “could have gone either way” and that because Alkmaar beat Feyenoord, a draw at their place is “a good point away from home” and that he was pleased with a performance in which Manchester United had zero shots on target.

It’s a very different Ole and one I had desperately hoped we would never see, but at the same time, sadly predictable. It must be incredibly depressing for him to see his dream crashing down and to finally realise he isn’t good enough for the job he’s always wanted. But that doesn’t mean he has to take us with him on his merry ride of self-deceipt in an alternate reality just so he can have a coping mechanism for his failure.

I mentioned this the other day. He has reverted to stupidity. When he came in it was all "we are Manchester United we are expected to win, or when we lost to Everton it was major criticism of the team'

Now it is ' we should have had a penalty, the pitch, players did well' fecking shite

 

[Enigma_87]

I think we need to keep him. I don't mind his long term vision/player recruitment. We can't keep changing managers and style.

Keep him for another 2-3 Windows where we pull in similar players to Maguire, AWB, James. Then switch to a better manager.

There is absolutely no guarantee that the next transfers will be successful. There is also no guarantee that the three we brought will be successful in the long term.

Some are calling them success after several games yet fail to identify an incompetent manager who has been here for almost an year.

He’s also a poor coach - given some time probably the likes of James, AWB and Maguire will join the “deadwood category”.

 

[Leftback99]

I wonder what the excuse will be after yet another game where we drop points against shite team like Newcastle. Surely “but... but.... they have a better squad” is not gonna work, will need to get a bit more creative.

Anyone expecting an easy game with the players we have available tomorrow will be disappointed. It's not an excuse it's just a fact that they aren't good enough.

 

[Wolff]

There is absolutely no guarantee that the next transfers will be successful. There is also no guarantee that the three we brought will be successful in the long term.

Some are calling them success after several games yet fail to identify an incompetent manager who has been here for almost an year.

He’s also a poor coach - given some time probably the likes of James, AWB and Maguire will join the “deadwood category”.

And there we have it. The total hypocrisy.

Anyone expecting an easy game with the players we have available tomorrow will be disappointed. It's not an excuse it's just a fact that they aren't good enough.

Mate, people are expecting easy games on a pitch where it take three touches getting ball control with the reserves.. If not winning it’s just another black and white stick to beat the manager, and if winning it’s just down to luck.

 

[Enigma_87]

Anyone expecting an easy game with the players we have available tomorrow will be disappointed. It's not an excuse it's just a fact that they aren't good enough.

Those players finished 2nd under Jose less than year and a half before.

He was given 150m to improve the team and made it worse since establishment of PL.

If he can’t make them play better he’s not a good manager simple as.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

It will be in the Championship, but as long as Woodward is gone, eh?

If that's what it takes to get rid then I'd take it, better that than keep pretending that sacking the manager is the going to fix everything.

 

[Enigma_87]

And there we have it. The total hypocrisy.

Yes - on your part. Or you can’t make a difference between a year and 10 games?

The state of some posters...

 

[Enigma_87]

If that's what it takes to get rid then I'd take it, better that than keep pretending that sacking the manager is the going to fix everything.

If Liverpool followed that logic and didn’t appoint Klopp they would have been worse than us now.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

If Liverpool followed that logic and didn’t appoint Klopp they would have been worse than us now.

So we're basically saying let Woodward keep having a go at getting us a decent manager appointed, chances are he's bound to get something right at some point.

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

And that's exactly how this club has been run for years. That simply doesn't happen because, well, you find a manager that believes in youth. That's easy to do, even clubs in smaller leagues that have far more difficulties than Manchester United are able to outline a philosophy that surpasses any individual. If a club is all about attacking football and promoting youth players, than you simply appoint a manager able to play attacking, progressing football, and who has proven record of promoting youth.

Contrary to some people's beliefs, there are people who actually track these things, and neither manager appointment is made out of the blue. Manchester United is hiring without any coherent plan.

It all went downhill the season sir Alex retired. The club should have went all out for a proven manager and stuck with him like Liverpool did with Klopp. Hindsight is 50/50 and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Eric7C]

And there we have it. The total hypocrisy.

Mate, people are expecting easy games on a pitch where it take three touches getting ball control with the reserves.. If not winning it’s just another black and white stick to beat the manager, and if winning it’s just down to luck.

What winning?

 

[Enigma_87]

So we're basically saying let Woodward keep having a go at getting us a decent manager appointed, chances are he's bound to get something right at some point.

I’m saying that a quality manager makes a phenomenal difference at a broken club.

There is a bigger chance in us constantly changing manager to find a right one compared to keep Ole for 5 years.

I’m not sure how people fail to see this.