Exactly. If we want to specifically blame Woodward there is an angle that we can exploit. As a CEO, he is supposed to be a driving force and someone that sees the big picture, should spot structural issues and try to fix them by convincing the rest of the board that his vision is correct. After 6 years, it's fair to say that he either have zero influence on the board, can't spot structural issues or can't find solutions to these problems and that's a big problem for the club. For me that's enough to justify a change at the CEO position but we really shouldn't blame him for incoming and outgoing players when all the managers said that they were the one taking the decisions until they failed at that point it was someone else's fault.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
- Status
Would make a bigger statement if he walked from the job, but the ££££ fireing package will make him shut up about any potential negative elements in the club.
Yup spot on. The biggest flaw is his reluctance to change the footballing structure from the top to bottom. Maybe it's his fault or the board's fault, depending who is taking the final decision, but that's the biggest stick to beat him with.
No use in having an eye for talent if he thought we were fine to go into a PL season with Martial and Rashford as our only recognized strikers. Not to mention the state our midfield is in.
I'm not convinced by this consensus either.
know him personally do you?
there's an old saying 'when you point your finger there's three pointing back at you'
jeez it's too easy for anybody to post rubbish on here... but what's really laughable is people actually believe it!
I think it's a mix of both. His comments on DoF that this summers window showed our way is the best way makes me believe he really don't think we have problem with recruitment. We shouldn't be relying on managers for transfers.
Edit: Nothing to do with Ole or any other manager, I'm talking about his comments on DoF in general.
What difference does waiting on ole does?
We're bottom table, goes into penalty against rochdale and it's a boring match.
I'd wait and give time if i see progress, as in our player plays like a team, knows how to pass the ball and actually attacks in patterns. I see none, just spray and pray.
I never expected ole to challenge for the title, not even top 4. But if he cant produce the goods with the likes of pogba on the field against rochdale giving him another 3 years will probably made up top 4 at best, and that's a stretch
We're bottom table, goes into penalty against rochdale and it's a boring match.
I'd wait and give time if i see progress, as in our player plays like a team, knows how to pass the ball and actually attacks in patterns. I see none, just spray and pray.
I never expected ole to challenge for the title, not even top 4. But if he cant produce the goods with the likes of pogba on the field against rochdale giving him another 3 years will probably made up top 4 at best, and that's a stretch
I don't get the eye for talent thing either. Giggs gave him the heads up on James as reported. Maguire is probably the best English CB and AWB is one of the best RBs in the league. Not unearthed gems.
Nothing mind blowing about our signings or be it they are good signings and ones I am happy about.
Correct, i'd go one step further and argue that, if we ultimately fail to find any kind of form & a coherent style, he'll have massively overrated the capabilities of the youngsters (Marcus & Tony included) which is the last thing we need from a future DoF.
But nevermind that as it's still up for debate and consider the absurdity of this idea which is currently doing the rounds on here. Imagine going into a new job and being told on your first day that your supervisor, the man you'll have to work with and answer to, is actually the same person who had to be removed from the position, your position, because he wasn't good enough.
The fact that Arsenal didn't offer the role to someone like Wenger (one of the most important figures in their enrire history) because of the complications it could create is a lesson good enough to kill off any silly ideas like this one.
Yes it's true his caretaker stint was phenomenal, like a breath of fresh air after Mourinho's third season but what worries me there is when you analyse it, Ole himself said he didn't tinker tactically with Jose's system and so all that changed was the players started 'trying' again. That's not to absolve Mourinho of blame but it was an emotional, psychological change not anything tactical when he first came in.
Now, it's still the remnants of Mourinho's system but without the feel good factor that came with Ole's arrival. It still kind of feels like he's a caretaker because he doesn't seem to have the force of personality to make this team his own, it's like we're in stasis and waiting for something to happen.
I agree, I seem to remember a similar comment about the structure of the club and how the Glazers fit the club because they are big on tradition. I'm 100% sure that in their collective minds, they believe that they can unearth a new SAF which is incredibly stupid. It's reminiscent of "why don't we sign the next Messi?".
Yeah, we are just refusing to move on. We can't unearth SAF and even if we unearth SAF he can't replicate what 'The SAF' achieved. Club is so huge and the level of detail is so high that it's not a job for just 1 person. We should be hiring specialist for each roles.
A good coach will make a system that works with the players he has. It is ridiculous to play like City or Barca with this squad.
So use the players in a way they can play. Surely at this level they can or should be able to be coached in trying to get at least one corner kick right?
So use the players in a way they can play. Surely at this level they can or should be able to be coached in trying to get at least one corner kick right?
True Drebin. But who do we replace him with though?
We're doing just that and also on past players/managers as advisers.
So far all incoming players are either based on current reputation like Maguire, AWB, etc - players who are well noted and followed by many clubs, or someone the manager has worked with - Fellaini, Matic, or whoever the manager/coaching staff/past players recommend.
We have zero research or we don't listen to our scouts one bit.
We're buying 16-17 years olds from Europe - the only use we have of scouts probably, yet they don't really help the first team one bit at the moment.
And yes it doesn't concern Moyes, Ole or Jose it is what it is because of the structure left by Fergie - or the lack of it above him.
Well he also decided Lukaku doesn’t fit into his system, whatever system that is. He is just naive. He has all these ideas but in reality none of them work. I wouldn’t even call them good ideas, they’re just generic ones any fan could bleat on about. The talk about youth, attacking, pressing.
That would mean we need a more defensive coach at the current point. Caf won't like that.
Well given our forward line was Greenwood, Lingard, Pereira, and Chong, it's very possible that they lack that individual quality. Forget the name Man Utd, that was a poor forward line, Greenwood aside.
Such a line tasked with breaking down a 10-man bus will always struggle regardless of tactics. In a more open game, they stand more of a chance.
Jones, Young, Matic, Mata and Lingard are all still here
Basically OGS is a sacrificial lamb isn't he. He's done a job which had to be done - shipping out all the high-earners - even though he might get sacked at the end of it. None of the big-name managers would have accepted that particular mission.
Not sure he'll be given the chance to complete the project but we'll all be grateful to him in a few years.
Not sure he'll be given the chance to complete the project but we'll all be grateful to him in a few years.
Seriously? We are still an impossible club to turn down for 80% of managers currently employed by clubs & national sides, probably 99% impossible to turn down for managers, not in a job.
He absolutely should not be DOF. Basing your opinion off him signing James is crazy. It does not take a DOF to sign AWB and Maguire at record fees.
It doesn't take a DoF to sell too many without replacement either. That would be shit planning, so Ole for a DoF role would be bizzare.
Not sure if serious...
New contracts for Jones, Mata, Young.
Bumper, 1st choice CF contract for 'Rashy'.
James was spotted by Giggs (who also spotted Martial).
Maguire was scouted by Mourinho.
Signings at Cardiff were utterly woeful.
Posters being desperate to keep playing legends in the club. Picking executive roles out of a hat. It’s bizzare.
I think I remember reading on here an account of Ole's time at Molde where a fan said he started messing around with a successful formula and results dropped before he went back to his original formation and things started to pick up again.
At this point, he might be as well to go back to the 4-3-3 because the formation this season hasn't brought good results.
At this point, he might be as well to go back to the 4-3-3 because the formation this season hasn't brought good results.
The DoF talk has to be one of the worst ideas that had come out from United fans in a while.
Yes, seems like the kind of thinking that converts failed wingers to full backs and hands them new contracts because they "can do a job".
We need specialists, everywhere.
Not necessarily. I mean about being more defensive than now. When you look at the way we play, we are too open in the middle. That's because we play with two midfield players only. We need to be more compact in the middle. Matic can't play anymore. I would put Jones there and his job is to play football really but to stop other team from playing thru the middle.
Put Rojo on the left side of the midfield and push Pogba up to the top of the diamond and play Scott on the right of midfield. Play Martial and James/ Rashford up front. Depending on the opposition can drop Pogba into midfield and play James on top of the diamond.
The main purpose is to remain in touch with the top 4 for now instead of trying to achieve things we can't achieve for right now.
I know people don't like Rojo but he is a good football player and he is good going forward, is reasonably quick, can dribble, can shoot from range and is a good header of the ball. He has played in defence and hence defend a lot better than Pogba. Also pushing Pogba forward would make other teams defend more too. They closer Pogba is to their box the more defensive they have to be and also the more opportunities for Pogba to create a goal or score one.
You are saying we should play Rojo and Jones in midfield?
It isn't if Phelan is rubbish, as you say Fergie was not fool where his coaches were concerned. It is more if his coaching is relevant in today's football. The other two are inexperienced regarding training first team professional footballers.
Out of a hat? I'm hardly the first person to suggest it! https://www.forbes.com/sites/sampil...er-director-of-football-at-manchester-united/
Also plenty of the best DOF either had their biggest success at a club they played at (Overmars, Monchi, Begiristain, Zorc for example) without (or with minimal) previous experience in a role of that size.
The 3 players he brought in are the best performing this season. As for being previously scouted by a different manager or recommended by someone else, all players are scouted its about who the manager brings in.
He's retained some dead weight like Jones, Mata, Matic and Young for sure but most likely because of the influence they bring to the dressing room.
As for replacements, its not been ideal for sure and a definite failing but it didn't help that Lukaku dragged on for so long in a pivotal window.
Last edited:
Rojo is a tactical nuisance mate. You can't put such players in midfield in pivotal roles. He's liability and won't put him anywhere near apart from the bench.
James needs to be on the wing as he's a player that would use space, top of a diamond he'd be wasted.
A narrow diamond with AWB and Shaw as full backs isn't optimal.
Exactly. That's what I am saying. In a diamond. Jones instead of Matic and Rojo on the left.
If you ask them to play tiki taka or passing football it's obvious they can't do it. But if their job is to stop other team playing and give the ball to Pogba and our two players up front they can do it.
We need water carriers in our side now. They are decent players who can do a particular job. SAF had got Jones to do that in midfield. He certainly will be more effective than Matic if he is fit.
If you ask them to play tiki taka or passing football it's obvious they can't do it. But if their job is to stop other team playing and give the ball to Pogba and our two players up front they can do it.
We need water carriers in our side now. They are decent players who can do a particular job. SAF had got Jones to do that in midfield. He certainly will be more effective than Matic if he is fit.
They didn’t park the bus though and Your telling me Rochdale defence is better than our attack?
Then we get opened up. There is no other choice than go narrow and compact now. We simply don't have the players to play in another way.
It's for the time being till we get players to play in a different way.
Rojo being a nuisance is exactly why he can play there. He will bring that amount of steel and tackling into the left side of midfield. He is not a bad football player. Playing as left back he gets beaten one v one. Playing in midfield he doesn't have to deal with a quick winger.
But he won't.
Woodward is making the Glazers money and while he continues to do this, he'll stay in place.
IMO, while Woodward is at the club, the club will remain in the doldrums. No manager can work well, under Woodward. For this reason, I haven't been venting at Ole or the players. All my ire is directed towards Woodward. He is a dreadful DoF.
That is my opinion (not about having to be nice obviously), you do not have to like it, personally irrespective of what you think, I still think he would make a better DOF than a manager, he has the right ideas, he is more willing to implement youth, than say going out to buy Zlatan or Matic or Mata, Maguire AWB & James have looked a lot better than the heap we have had, granted having Jones, Smalling & Valencia at the back it was not difficult.
And in regards to the youth aspect again not like he has had much choice with that either, but it had to happen at some point, Jones, Smalling etc had/has to go at some point, yes Ole's tactics are pants, no question about that, being a DOF football does not mean he has control over the next managers tactics. They have input with the next manager yes, in the end, it will still come down to the Glazers, on how much they are willing to depart with, but the DOF would jut be the filling in the sandwich.
And again yes I do belive he would make a better DOF than a manager, he would not have sole control of how the team plays, that would come down to the manager, he may have some input on the direction of the team, i.e look at younger players, and not continue to waste money on players who are knocking on the door of 30.
In the end, when you think about it, it's been that long, the next DOF & Manager would need to make it the United way again, but what is the United way now? If someone on the forum has the "magical answer" to that question then perhaps they need to go knock on the office at Carrington or go have a chat with Ed " the clown" Woodward.
While I agree with the vast majority of your post, Solskjaer should certainly never be considered as DoF given that he probably struggles to find his own nose in the mirror.
So so so so so weird that people are STILL calling for Ole to be DOF, it's as if nothing is learnt on here, people want to see us make terrible decisions after terrible decisions.
- Status