Ole has no system that I can see ..... or do I just need better glasses?

[Lentwood]

Most people aren’t qualified to determine whether a football team is playing a particular system and whether they are playing it effectively.

First of all, most posters will never have played football to any kind of reasonable standard - so have never been coached by professional grade coaches

Secondly, most people only have a very basic grasp of tactics, which usually starts and ends with the actual formation a team is playing

Finally, it’s nearly impossible to tell on the TV whether a team are playing a particular system and whether they are playing it effectively. The side-on angle and the close-ups make it very difficult. Ideally, you need to be sat much higher and have more of a top-down view of the pitch.

It was certainly an eye-opening experience sitting in East Stand T2 during LvGs spell in charge. You could clearly see the instructions the players were (trying) to follow and it was unlike anything I’d seen before. Arguably, it is was the clearest and most coherent system we’ve had for years. Whether it was effective and whether we had the players to pull it off...arguably not!

 

[Stetcg]

United played their best football in years last season, just saying.

Getting a massive 66 points in the process 2 more than David Moyes......not exactly a reason to celebrate.

 

[Resch]

Ole is too onedimensional. We have all the players to play a 4 2 2 2 or 4 3 1 2.
Martial and Rashford in front of VdB and Bruno. Pogba and Fred / McT would be great.
Press your opponent, force errors and attack. This should be Oles idea. Look at Salzburg, they use this system, without wingers and with one attacking FB and defensive FB, one forward likes to drift out wide and without a 6.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Ole may have a system in place, it's just a pity we don't have the players to implement it. Playing out from the back when 4 out of 5 of them haven't got a clue isn't the way to go. Playing with a high line when we have 2 of the slowest CBs in the league isn't the way to go. Throwing balls into the box when we don't have anyone there isn't the way to go. Playing AWB as an attacking outlet isn't the way to go. Playing Pogba deep isn't the way to go and having Ole trying to bring it all together isn't the way to go.

 

[UmbroDays]

I struggle to see any tactics beyond play your position; I'm no expert though...

But for some reason, this doesn't make sense for Martial. He was playing up front as the loan strike, but almost everytime we went on the attack he wasn't in the 16-yard area. He was on the wing, taking a pass from Pog or James and I'm like "GET INTO THE BOX!!!!".

That makes me thing we aren't playing any special tactics beyond Rash play down the wing and cut in, James do the same, Pog pick up the ball and connect with Bruno e.g. basic football.

There's no overlapping, there are no deep midfield runs beyond the striker, there are no corner/freekick plays, nothing. James, Rashford, AWB and Shaw just run down the wing and look utterly confused about what to do next. It's just luck if we have an overlapping or inside runner. To me this just seems like lack of training plays, etc.

I swear some of our training staff need to watch NFL and learn about playbooks for almost every situation and drill it into our lads

 

[Davie Moyes]

Most people aren’t qualified to determine whether a football team is playing a particular system and whether they are playing it effectively.

First of all, most posters will never have played football to any kind of reasonable standard - so have never been coached by professional grade coaches

Secondly, most people only have a very basic grasp of tactics, which usually starts and ends with the actual formation a team is playing

Finally, it’s nearly impossible to tell on the TV whether a team are playing a particular system and whether they are playing it effectively. The side-on angle and the close-ups make it very difficult. Ideally, you need to be sat much higher and have more of a top-down view of the pitch.

It was certainly an eye-opening experience sitting in East Stand T2 during LvGs spell in charge. You could clearly see the instructions the players were (trying) to follow and it was unlike anything I’d seen before. Arguably, it is was the clearest and most coherent system we’ve had for years. Whether it was effective and whether we had the players to pull it off...arguably not!

Good post. I agree. I'm the definition of a armchair fan so would not pretend to know about team's formation and tactics.

Could you elaborate a bit further on what you saw during LVG tactics? I'm intrigued!

 

[Tom Cato]

No of course we don't have a system or a gameplan. Ole tells the captain to pick the team based on who he likes, and then they all get a "go have fun" pat on the back before kickoff.

 

[Untd55]

30 goals in the PL where Bruno Fernandes played (Fernandes (14 games) - 8 goals and 7 assists =15 goal direct contribution) - In terms of just assists and goals, Fernandes contributed to 50% of our goals in the Premier League after he joined.

36 goals in the PL - De Bruyne (last 14 games - 6 goals and 5 assists = 11 goals direct contribution) - In terms of just assists and goal, De Bruyne contributed to 30% of Man City's goals.

People will point out that we were the best team in the league from February, but seem to fail to understand that it was completely unsustainable. De Bruyne is widely regarded as the best midfielder in the league and even he only has 30% contribution in those 14 games, whilst Fernandes has 50%.

The tactics in those 14 games were to hope that Fernandes does something or hope he scores a penalty; they were not great tactics. It was over realiance on a player to win us games, which was completely unsustainable. He did manage to do it for a while, but as his form tailed off towards the end of the season, you could see our performances dipped massively. We will see a hit this season, just based on that.

Solskjaer has also shown quite the inability to turn the game around from open play. There are a lot of concerning signs towards the end of last season with how the team failed to turn the game around unless we won a penalty. The penalty was a turning point in a multitude of games, and we started to become reliant on it.

I do not think we play any great tactics at all; it is more setup in a 4-3-3 and hope that the players will win the game. That is why we are only effective at counter-attacking because we are incapable of breaking down teams if Fernandes doesn't do something.

We are slow at passing the ball around; players refuse to get in the box, making crosses pointless; we play no overlaps; pressing is average/non-existent etc. It is no wonder we are so bad at breaking teams down; we have no fluidity when we play against them.

There were a lot of holes in last seasons performances that are only going to get bigger and bigger unless Solskjaer changes something. I don't Sancho alone will be enough.

 

[anant]

30 goals in the PL where Bruno Fernandes played (Fernandes (14 games) - 8 goals and 7 assists =15 goal direct contribution) - In terms of just assists and goals, Fernandes contributed to 50% of our goals in the Premier League after he joined.

36 goals in the PL - De Bruyne (last 14 games - 6 goals and 5 assists = 11 goals direct contribution) - In terms of just assists and goal, De Bruyne contributed to 30% of Man City's goals.

People will point out that we were the best team in the league from February, but seem to fail to understand that it was completely unsustainable. De Bruyne is widely regarded as the best midfielder in the league and even he only has 30% contribution in those 14 games, whilst Fernandes has 50%.

The tactics in those 14 games were to hope that Fernandes does something or hope he scores a penalty; they were not great tactics. It was over realiance on a player to win us games, which was completely unsustainable. He did manage to do it for a while, but as his form tailed off towards the end of the season, you could see our performances dipped massively. We will see a hit this season, just based on that.

Solskjaer has also shown quite the inability to turn the game around from open play. There are a lot of concerning signs towards the end of last season with how the team failed to turn the game around unless we won a penalty. The penalty was a turning point in a multitude of games, and we started to become reliant on it.

I do not think we play any great tactics at all; it is more setup in a 4-3-3 and hope that the players will win the game. That is why we are only effective at counter-attacking because we are incapable of breaking down teams if Fernandes doesn't do something.

We are slow at passing the ball around; players refuse to get in the box, making crosses pointless; we play no overlaps; pressing is average/non-existent etc. It is no wonder we are so bad at breaking teams down; we have no fluidity when we play against them.

There were a lot of holes in last seasons performances that are only going to get bigger and bigger unless Solskjaer changes something. I don't Sancho alone will be enough.

If you want to analyze it this way, then remove the penalties from the haul here. Bruno has obviously helped us and it pushed our players' performances up by 10% or so, but including pens here isn't the best comparison especially as he won maybe just a penalty or two

 

[Pretzels81]

Clear 4-2-3-1.

Main problem is that Lindy sucks and Pogba+attackers are inconsistent.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

No of course we don't have a system or a gameplan. Ole tells the captain to pick the team based on who he likes, and then they all get a "go have fun" pat on the back before kickoff.

Ole does have a system but would you agree if we don't have the players to implement it it's basically a waste of time? For example do you think we should be playing out from the back when De Gea, Maquire, Lindelof and AWB enter in panic mode when they have the ball and they're starting being closed down? A team should play to their strengths and this definitely isn't one of ours.

 

[reelworld]

Ole does have a system but would you agree if we don't have the players to implement it it's basically a waste of time? For example do you think we should be playing out from the back when De Gea, Maquire, Lindelof and AWB enter in panic mode when they have the ball and they're starting being closed down? A team should play to their strengths and this definitely isn't one of ours.

Which is ironic since he bought half the players you mentioned

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Ole does have a system but would you agree if we don't have the players to implement it it's basically a waste of time? For example do you think we should be playing out from the back when De Gea, Maquire, Lindelof and AWB enter in panic mode when they have the ball and they're starting being closed down? A team should play to their strengths and this definitely isn't one of ours.

Therefore it's a bad system. Why we (Ole especially) persist with this is no one knows.

I think it's plain as day we do have a system. A system that relies on individuals is also a system. A system that give freedom to players is also a system. Having no clear structure/shape is also a system. I mean that kind of system could actually works if you have players that can actually implement it effectively. We don't have enough and the "new" players that we're getting doesn't seem to make it work better either, so it's odd..

 

[tomaldinho1]

Most people aren’t qualified to determine whether a football team is playing a particular system and whether they are playing it effectively.

First of all, most posters will never have played football to any kind of reasonable standard - so have never been coached by professional grade coaches

Secondly, most people only have a very basic grasp of tactics, which usually starts and ends with the actual formation a team is playing

Finally, it’s nearly impossible to tell on the TV whether a team are playing a particular system and whether they are playing it effectively. The side-on angle and the close-ups make it very difficult. Ideally, you need to be sat much higher and have more of a top-down view of the pitch.

It was certainly an eye-opening experience sitting in East Stand T2 during LvGs spell in charge. You could clearly see the instructions the players were (trying) to follow and it was unlike anything I’d seen before. Arguably, it is was the clearest and most coherent system we’ve had for years. Whether it was effective and whether we had the players to pull it off...arguably not!

Agree with all but the bolded part. Close ups are useless but the side on view gives a different angle and a good idea of defensive organisation in particular as well as the best view of how a team tries to break the press or move their attacks forward. You can't really see passing lanes and width properly which is a big disadvantage but it's still a useful view. This is probably why so many fans (given the percentage of fans who watch United on tv versus in person is probably 99% versus 1%) are acutely aware of how badly, on the surface, our defensive unit seems to be drilled and how poorly United play between the lines offensively.

I do agree though, the usual solution presented by most fans is to simply suggest a different formation but the root cause of a lot of our issues comes from the training ground. We simply don't look well drilled and whilst it's a balancing act (i.e. you don't want players to lose motivation like Pulis did at Stoke by just non stop doing the same training exercises over and over) I do think our team needs more structure when I watch us just compare to other teams in the PL. That's really all we can do as fans, objectively and fairly compare how we play to other teams. What's hard to know now is how much of how bad we looked at the weekend comes down to a bad pre season and how much is down to coaching given it's the same squad and the same coaching team from last season - I think tracking how Wolves play (given they had a similar pre season to us & finished last season close to us) is a logical thing to do for the next 5 or so games.

 

[Foxbatt]

I do not know about most people. I know that I have and had been coached by someone (even for a short time and been his assistant) who eventually coached a club who played CL football and currently do so though he has passed away. All I see usually is get it wide and cross or play over the top in the space behind or give it to Bruno or Pogba to do something.
Why do we see our rare crosses cut off? Because the defenders cut off the space. Our attackers do not seem to know which space to be in and the crosses does not know where to cross. It is very rare to see any set patterns of passing. It is all up to the individuals to do there thing. Yes individuals need to do their thing but there has to be a set pattern how the players play. We seem to pass when there is no other option. We take too many touches. Our set pieces are ridiculously naive. Our players do not know how to utilise space or cut down space. That is why we concede so silly goals. We try to play it out from the back no matter what the situation is. I could go on and on. Our players are very naive in how they play. It is not all down to the players because they are decent to good when they play for their national teams. Ole does not know how to manage the game situation too. I think he needs better coaches than Carrick and other coaches. Being a top player does not mean a good coach all the time.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Ole isn't above criticism obviously but all the current scrutiny needs to be directed at the owners and the board, until they are gone no manager will succeed here.

 

[Foxbatt]

Ole isn't above criticism obviously but all the current scrutiny needs to be directed at the owners and the board, until they are gone no manager will succeed here.

That I agree with you. With this team not even Klopp is going to win the PL. But with better managers we will do a lot better than this for sure.

 

[Vargo Hoat]

I'm curious. Do any United supporters actually see a midfield three of Pogba, Fernandes, and van de Beek working? I'm struggling to see how they would protect the defence in a satisfying manner. Surely van de Beek is brought in to start most games when he's fully fit and accustomed to the team and league? It just seems too attack-minded to me. Thoughts?

 

[romufc]

Its pretty simple this.

Move the ball quicker and we will see a better team.

Move is slow like we do and results will be the same.

Maguire and Lindelof take way too long, the ball should be moved - one touch two max, keep it moving which means the opposition is being moved around.

Simple football really pass - move.

When it comes to pressing, we press one and that's it. If we lose the ball we should try win the ball back within 5 seconds by everyone pressing, if they manage to maintain posession everyone should sprint back into their positions so that the team is still in shape.

This team clearly lacks basic football structure and knowledge.

 

[Amadaeus]

We saw part of Ole system against Palace. Go in the box and try and get penalties. Pogba and Martial both tried it but the referees are catching on after he brilliantly conned the league last season from it. It was pitiful and United should be better than that. I believe this will be his last big job and that speak to the type of quality Management we have. On the positive side, his recruitment are much better than his predecessors. I have faith in him as part of a transfer committee but not as a manager or a coach of a football team.

 

[Foxbatt]

I have not seen VDB play to say that it would work. Bruno is an attacking player and so is Pogba. We also get overwhelmed in midfield due to the numbers. You also see the way we play. Rashford or whoever who plays on the right gets the ball and they delay and delay and then get it further wide to our full backs. That gives the defence to organise themselves. They never or rarely play inside in good time while the space is still there. This is why we always play in front of the opposing defence. If we play a diamond, we can get one of the two strikers to go wide to create space and get three of the 4 midfield players to fill in that space inside or just outside the box. But that takes a bit of coaching to do.

 

[steve.crowford]

I'm surprised at a lot of the stuff I read in this thread. Two questions:
1. How did United's prospects look prior to last season? In the short, medium and longer term?
2. How are they looking now?
I don't know about you, but to me, ahead of last season Utd looked like a team that could realistically hope to finish 5th. Wafer-thin squad, full of holes, needed quality upgrades almost everywhere. The previous season made it obvious that a wholesale revamp would be required, a year ago that process looked very much in its early stages. I fully expected the short term effects to be bad. A rebuild takes time. The proof of the pudding would be whether there was real progress in 20/21, and if a competetive, title-challenging team was in place for 21/22.
In my view, they made considerably more progress in 19/20 than anyone could reasonably expect. As far as team-building is concerned, Ole is ahead of schedule. Fernandes was key, but then again acquiring the right players is the better part of team-building - it's not as if that was a blessing that descended on the manager from above. Progress is what hopes for last season was about, and progress is what he delivered.
I don't want to overstate it. Solskjær was plainly out-tacticked by Lopetegui against Sevilla. They got 66 points, very similar to previous seasons, and in normal years no more than you need for 5th or 6th place. On the other hand, they got more points after the January transfer window closed than any other team, and with the rapid evolution of the side, taking last year as a whole seems sort of abstract. If the begin where they ended, they are a much better team than that. I would also say that while they tailed off towards the end of the season, they were on the whole impressive post- lockdown. Above all, they showed that they are now capable of overrunning deep-sitting sides on a more than occasional basis. That is the key to improving in the standings. And you can't overlook their record against the top sides. Progress.
They are now playing with a distinctive style that yields results, which is increasingly suited to the personnell, and which the team buys into. Progress.
And look at the number of players developing positively or performing better than before - Shaw, Williams, Fosu-Mensah, Fred, Matic, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood. Not to forget that all players bought have actually improved the team, and integrated well. Progress.
More than anything else - there's a plan. Finally. For how the club manages things, what they want to be about, how they play, what sort of players they want, and where they plan to end up without being unrealistic about what that'll take. It seems to be working.
Also, personally, I've never bought into the "this is United, anything other than winning now is unacceptable" mentality. Not even a club with United's history has a right to such a sense of entitlement. After all you don't get awarded points for history, they have to be earned in every game, same as everyone else. And if you want a winning team, you have to build one. It's no quicker or easier for United than it is for anybody else. Well, except for the money, obviously. But that's not enough.

 

[Tibs]

The plan is play out from the back, or rather,

Try and play out from the back, and when we the ball fairly quickly, try not to concede. Repeat over and over and hope we get a penalty

 

[Van Piorsing]

So we can finish 3rd in the most advanced league in the world and not have a system ? Damn... Ole's a f*ckin genius after all.

 

[Revan]

Ole isn't above criticism obviously but all the current scrutiny needs to be directed at the owners and the board, until they are gone no manager will succeed here.

Owners and Ed suck, but so does Ole. While I agree that not even Pep or Klopp can win the league with these players, we should have easily defeated Crystal Palace and even last year, the team is quite better than what it showed (66 points).

We need other people in literally every department, from owners, directors, coaches and players.

 

[ray24]

Also, it is funny to see Man Utd rehiring the assistant manager that had been outclassed tactically for the past decade or so. Mike Phelan seems responsible for the decline of Man Utd on a tactical level. While Ferguson won his last title with him as the assistant manager, it was very clear it was the final hooray for the tactics that they implemented.

 

[dev1l]

Also, it is funny to see Man Utd rehiring the assistant manager that had been outclassed tactically for the past decade or so. Mike Phelan seems responsible for the decline of Man Utd on a tactical level. While Ferguson won his last title with him as the assistant manager, it was very clear it was the final hooray for the tactics that they implemented.

Not so sure about Phelan involved in tactics. I think it s more Carrick and McKenna

 

[glazed]

Watching the dippers pan Chelsea yesterday you could see a system that was working. They were pushing the play consistently further up the pitch all the time so that everything was dangerous. Every time Chelsea had the ball they were harried off it in an organised fashion. When they moved forward it was as a team. Every time a ball was played over or through them, you knew the keeper would be coming out before he arrived in camera shot. It was relaxing to watch. Enjoyable even, if it weren't the dippers.

Yes they have got some good players, but knowing exactly what they were supposed to be doing makes them a hell of a lot better, let's face it.

 

[Beachryan]

Due to some fortunate holiday cancellations (thanks Covid!) I was able to watch a huge amount of the recent Europa and CL 'mini tournaments'. Presumably some of y'all did too. Having watched all but 2 United matches in the 19/20 season, I feel like I get 'our style'.

I can categorically say we looked less coherent, less structured and less consistent then just about every team I saw in those matches. And not the huge teams like Bayern and PSG - who make it look like a different sport - but even smaller teams with budgets that pale in comparison with ours.

We have some excellent footballers, so are able to produce good results. But I really don't think we can use last season as a success story in terms of patterns of play. We scraped third with a relatively low point total based on, imo, two key factors: a ton of penalties and the emergence of Greenwood in the run-in.

And most of Greenwood's goals are individual brilliance.

Personally I'm just trying to stay reasonably upbeat about our longer-term prospects. We have some real talent, mostly under-25, and when we finish outside the Top-4, we'll have to pick a talented manager because all the obvious answers have failed.

 

[Foxbatt]

Not so sure about Phelan involved in tactics. I think it s more Carrick and McKenna

I agree with you but never has anyone said anything about Carrick and McKenna as tacticians. We had under SAF of course and Quirioz was a master tactician. We simply cannot afford to go with novice coaches and an inept manager. Not at a top club like United. I personally think Rene would have a much better option as a coach instead of Carrick or McKenna. But that said, I also do not know if Ole listens to them or not?

 

[soapythecat]

I feel the coaching staff are getting away without due critisism. We’ve been relying on senior coaches who don’t have much of a track record. Carrick, McKenna seem to be at the most visible of the coaches on the touch line and next to Ole, so we assume they are the senior coaches, yet what have they done at this level?

 

[gerdm07]

I struggle to see any tactics beyond play your position; I'm no expert though...

But for some reason, this doesn't make sense for Martial. He was playing up front as the loan strike, but almost everytime we went on the attack he wasn't in the 16-yard area. He was on the wing, taking a pass from Pog or James and I'm like "GET INTO THE BOX!!!!".

That makes me thing we aren't playing any special tactics beyond Rash play down the wing and cut in, James do the same, Pog pick up the ball and connect with Bruno e.g. basic football.

There's no overlapping, there are no deep midfield runs beyond the striker, there are no corner/freekick plays, nothing. James, Rashford, AWB and Shaw just run down the wing and look utterly confused about what to do next. It's just luck if we have an overlapping or inside runner. To me this just seems like lack of training plays, etc.

I swear some of our training staff need to watch NFL and learn about playbooks for almost every situation and drill it into our lads

"There is no overlapping.."

Shaw and AWB make numerous overlaps every match. Do you know what you are talking about?

 

[Foxbatt]

I feel the coaching staff are getting away without due critisism. We’ve been relying on senior coaches who don’t have much of a track record. Carrick, McKenna seem to be at the most visible of the coaches on the touch line and next to Ole, so we assume they are the senior coaches, yet what have they done at this level?

Nothing at any decent level. Not sure if they are actually in charge of tactics or just helping with Ole? With SAF Quiroz was in command of tactics and SAF let him deal with it. As a person I want my leader to lead from the front. Not let me be sacrificed while he sits there. Apart from the tactics and coaching you need a manager who leads from the touchline and can be seen to fight your fight with the referee and assistant referee and of course the opposing coach and if you do make a mistake to remind you thats a mistake by screaming at you. That makes the players be at 100% and not drop down their levels. With United now players can lose possession at any part of the pitch and the manager is calm about it and it is alright for him if that happens.

 

[ReddevilTinu]

What was Ole thinking of not having a pre-season and then trying to compete in one of most fiercely competitive leagues in Europe.

This showed lack of vision and lack of preparation.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It was certainly an eye-opening experience sitting in East Stand T2 during LvGs spell in charge. You could clearly see the instructions the players were (trying) to follow and it was unlike anything I’d seen before. Arguably, it is was the clearest and most coherent system we’ve had for years. Whether it was effective and whether we had the players to pull it off...arguably not!

This is a point worth making - again and again.

It doesn't mean "armchair fans" are idiots. But there is a HUGE difference between watching football on TV and live in a stadium (if you have a decent seat, that is).

Player movement off the ball is often very hard to assess properly on TV, whether it be individual players or - say - an entire defensive unit moving collectively according to what happens.

One of the greatest joys of watching live football (again - it has to be from a decent vantage point) is to be able to follow a single player over a sustained period: watch when he starts, when he stops - when he jogs, when he sprints. And so forth.

Of course, for most of my own experiences watching United, specifically, live - none of that actually happened. Because I was too busy worrying about the result, or joining other fans singing or chanting, possibly not being 100% sober either...and so forth. So - the idea that match goers are per default more reliable observers of what's going on is definitely not something I'd consider true.

But in theory - yes - you get a very different perspective. And if you pay attention to details, a more realistic/true one too.

 

[UmbroDays]

"There is no overlapping.."

Shaw and AWB make numerous overlaps every match. Do you know what you are talking about?

Effective overlapping with the overlapping player getting the ball and putting it in = my dismissal.

If that's the only point you can call out from my post, then you obviously don't need to ask if I know what I'm talking about.

 

[NoPace]

Most people aren’t qualified to determine whether a football team is playing a particular system and whether they are playing it effectively.

First of all, most posters will never have played football to any kind of reasonable standard - so have never been coached by professional grade coaches

Secondly, most people only have a very basic grasp of tactics, which usually starts and ends with the actual formation a team is playing

Finally, it’s nearly impossible to tell on the TV whether a team are playing a particular system and whether they are playing it effectively. The side-on angle and the close-ups make it very difficult. Ideally, you need to be sat much higher and have more of a top-down view of the pitch.

It was certainly an eye-opening experience sitting in East Stand T2 during LvGs spell in charge. You could clearly see the instructions the players were (trying) to follow and it was unlike anything I’d seen before. Arguably, it is was the clearest and most coherent system we’ve had for years. Whether it was effective and whether we had the players to pull it off...arguably not!

This all seems right to me.

Ole seemed like he wanted a 4-2-4/4-2-3-1 last preseason basically, and now we've played 4-4-2 against Villa in the friendly and a bit against Palace. We don't move the ball very well so can't break down packed teams.

I would rather we get a manager with a clear plan A in. I think the guys we're building around should be Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, VDB, Wan-Bissaka and Henderson (De Gea for now obviously) basically, as Pogba could go some summer soon and nobody else seems like a clear long-term starter to me, though you could obviously make a case for Martial. Looking at that, I'd say their best positions are:

Rashford-Greenwood
------------------Bruno----------CreativeRW
-------Pogba(VDB)-------------------------------
----------------------DM----------------------------
LB------LCB----------RCB---WanBissaka
------------DeGea/Henderson--------------

And we'll see if Mengi or someone else is added. But if we sign Sancho, maybe a DM (or McTominay blossoms into that role, he does have the size and mobility though the passing and sniffing out danger is a question mark) and then either a couple of new backline transfers (Haven't seen a ton of Telles but he does seem like a logical move) or a manager who can revive their play (plausible in Maguire's case I would hope) I would say this makes sense. Could also hire a Guardiola type and play intensely possession football with Shaw and Wan-Bissaka either side of a CB and get another footballer out there, we really do struggle to keep possession.

Could also see the case for hiring a Bundesliga guy like Hassenhutl or Leipzig to run a 4-2-2-2 with Rashford, Greenwood and Martial alternating up top, Bruno in the Forsberg role as a LAM, sign a right winger and ask Pogba or VDB to be box to box with a sitting McTominay or transfer.

TLDR: Ole has not committed to a system and we'd be better off if he did but even then it's unclear if he and the backline or the team in general are good enough. We do have the forwards in theory and Bruno is definitely good. I don't know anymore I'm going crazy, but yeah, we should get in a manager with a clear and progressive tactical plan, would also make transfers easier to do when we can't just sign Sancho, Koulibaly or the other fellas you'd figure can just perform if tossed out there.

 

[Lentwood]

Good post. I agree. I'm the definition of a armchair fan so would not pretend to know about team's formation and tactics.

Could you elaborate a bit further on what you saw during LVG tactics? I'm intrigued!

What struck me the most was how players stuck rigidly to their “zones” and they weren’t necessarily traditional positions players took up. We used Fellaini and Mata almost as inside forwards, slightly infield and in the space between the base of our midfield and the opposition backline.

Without the ball we played incredibly compact and narrow. The gap between the forwards and the defenders was much less than you would expect in a traditional setup.

Watching Utd now, it strikes me that some of the gaps are too big. Certainly it seems like one half-decent pass can dissect us and lead to 2 vs 2 attacking counters for the opposition

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Weird how City are winning? Thought you couldn't win until you had at least 6 pre season games?

 

[eire-red]

"There is no overlapping.."

Shaw and AWB make numerous overlaps every match. Do you know what you are talking about?

They probably don't make enough, but what's even more infuriating is when they do, the lack of movement in the box, or even just the lack of anyone in the box.

It's mind boggling. Imagine using width as a genuine tactic to stretch defences, and then look up and Martial and Rashford are waiting on the 18 yard line for the clever pull back for the picture perfect goal.