Ole when sacked vs Ten Hag currently

[el3mel]

He didn't take over 1 year ago. He took over aside that was completely and utterly lost and looking uncoached, so your point just collapsed on itself, as did the others.

Or a side that was having an off season and just needed new blood to start performing again. This is a terrible argument. Conte took Chelsea from 10th to 1st in a year not because he was a miracle worker but because this side already won the league one year ago and were just having a meltdown under Mourinho. They were champions and just needed new blood. Same for United last season. The team was top 4 quality but were just having an off season. They finished 3rd and 2nd two seasons in a row.

One had a 6 month head-start to implement his system (and got KO'ed out of whatever competitions he was still in as interim), then he went on in his full season to continue to choke in cups, and finished 9 points below the other. You struggle with acknowledging all the facts.

When Ole was an interim coach he reached a CL QF and knocked out Chelsea and Arsenal back to back from the Fa Cup run. Next season he got KOed from both cups against Chelsea and City in the semi. "choke in cups" yet your savior haven't faced a team as half strong as these in his two glorious cup runs last season.

You asked about bridging the gap to City. Ole finished 12 points behind City in his 2nd full season (2.5 in actuality) and Ten Hag finished 14 points behind in year ONE. This is the level of your point.

Ten Hag inherited a team who already managed to cut the gap to 12 points one year ago. It's his job to get it closer to the top not act like a miracle he finished top 4, 14 points away from the top.

You're micro analysing - and evidently annoyed that Ten Hag won a cup with top 4 in his first season, and you're reduced with literally nothing to hang on to outside of moan about the opponents he faced. Again - have some shame.

"Annoyed"

I'm just not delusional, like you. Previous managers achieved the same results, finished in same position and won similar cups and more. Yet they're all considered a failure and the other is considered a god by his fans and people can't think of any better replacement. Ole, whose only experience in PL before getting the United was relegating Cardiff, basically a nothing coach, managed 3rd and 2nd league finish and a Europe League final. It's not as hard as Ten Hag fans are making it out to be. Any manager will achieve similar results because it's not a miracle for United. It's the bare minimum.

He was brought in to implement a clear style and identity and building the team to get closer to the top, not to win the League Cup.

They were shit all season - that is not form. Do you know what form is?

I know. Look at Chelsea in Mourinho's meltdown season and how they recovered next year, as mentioned above. Look at Real Madrid under Benitez and how they recovered under Zidane..etc. Shit seasons happen.

You can't recognize a good coach if SAF and Pep were 1 meter away from you it seems.

I won't trust the opinion of someone who thinks Ten Hag is a good coach.

In a covid year, yeah. Ten Hag is already better than Ole mate, don't try and talk shite - he got 76 points in a season which is more than what Ole got in 3. And yet you still give absolute nonsense posts like this.

Great achievement.

It wasn't miraculous, but no other manager post Fergie did it - that's a fact. You hate that and I am loving it

That reminds me of the tired argument that Ole got top 4 twice in a row unlike any other manager post Ferguson. A pointless stat that no one is interested in bar such manager's defenders. Yeah, Ten Hag managed a top 4 and a domestic cup in his first year. Ole also is the only manager who managed top 4 twice in a row and Mourinho is the only manager who managed to win two trophies in his first season .. so ?

The net result is the previous 3 managers all managed top 4, all of them reached finals and two of them won trophies at similar level or even more prestigious than what Ten Hag won yet we're acting like he pulled something unprecedented in the post Fergie era.

 

[PSV]

We have been very slow starters for a long time now, that's for sure. I guess this also proves that the season is far from over. Our current predicament is only marginally worse and we still finished 3rd and 2nd both times before. I think the current team (when everyone is fit) is much better on paper than any team Ole had. And Ten Hag has a better resume too. All in all I see no reason to panic yet.

Does he really though?

Ole took a Molde that had finished 11th the season before to their 1st and 2nd ever league titles back-to-back.

The two seasons before Ten Hag took over Ajax had finished 2nd twice at 82 (2015/16) and 81 (2016/17) points. His titles were won with 86, 88 and 83 respectively. That's almost coasting.

 

[VP89]

Or a side that was having an off season and just needed new blood to start performing again. This is a terrible argument. Conte took Chelsea from 10th to 1st in a year not because he was a miracle worker but because this side already won the league one year ago and were just having a meltdown under Mourinho. They were champions and just needed new blood. Same for United last season. The team was top 4 quality but were just having an off season. They finished 3rd and 2nd two seasons in a row.




When Ole was an interim coach he reached a CL QF and knocked out Chelsea and Arsenal back to back from the Fa Cup run. Next season he got KOed from both cups against Chelsea and City in the semi. "choke in cups" yet your savior haven't faced a team as half strong as these in his two glorious cup runs last season.




Ten Hag inherited a team who already managed to cut the gap to 12 points one year ago. It's his job to get it closer to the top not act like a miracle he finished top 4, 14 points away from the top.



"Annoyed"

I'm just not delusional, like you. Previous managers achieved the same results, finished in same position and won similar cups and more. Yet they're all considered a failure and the other is considered a god by his fans and people can't think of any better replacement. Ole, whose only experience in PL before getting the United was relegating Cardiff, basically a nothing coach, managed 3rd and 2nd league finish and a Europe League final. It's not as hard as Ten Hag fans are making it out to be. Any manager will achieve similar results because it's not a miracle for United. It's the bare minimum.

He was brought in to implement a clear style and identity and building the team to get closer to the top, not to win the League Cup.



I know. Look at Chelsea in Mourinho's meltdown season and how they recovered next year, as mentioned above. Look at Real Madrid under Benitez and how they recovered under Zidane..etc. Shit seasons happen.



I won't trust the opinion of someone who thinks Ten Hag is a good coach.



Great achievement.



That reminds me of the tired argument that Ole got top 4 twice in a row unlike any other manager post Ferguson. A pointless stat that no one is interested in bar such manager's defenders. Yeah, Ten Hag managed a top 4 and a domestic cup in his first year. Ole also is the only manager who managed top 4 twice in a row and Mourinho is the only manager who managed to win two trophies in his first season .. so ?

The net result is the previous 3 managers all managed top 4, all of them reached finals and two of them won trophies at similar level or even more prestigious than what Ten Hag won yet we're acting like he pulled something unprecedented in the post Fergie era.

We are going in circles so Il cut it short.

You have a very limited view on how managers actually go through a root and branch rebuild and this is reflected in your insane evaluation from one year in charge.

You have had it in for the manager for a long time and dont respect him as a coach in spite of what he's achieved which is objectively seen as impressive by 99% of the footballing world.

And finally, you are reduced to guesstimating what will happen, borderline sounding like a hope, because you have no leg to stand on in your arguments.

 

[Snow]

I'd expect 12 points there.

Even in current form I'd agree but I can see us messing up a game and getting 10.

 

[el3mel]

We are going in circles so Il cut it short.

You have a very limited view on how managers actually go through a root and branch rebuild and this is reflected in your insane evaluation from one year in charge.

You have had it in for the manager for a long time and dont respect him as a coach in spite of what he's achieved which is objectively seen as impressive by 99% of the footballing world.

And finally, you are reduced to guesstimating what will happen, borderline sounding like a hope, because you have no leg to stand on in your arguments.

You say that 99% of the football world is impressed by Ten Hag's resume as a coach them go on and say I'm guesstimating. Absolutely hilarious.

 

[Polar]

LVG, Mourinho and Ole were deemed a miserable failure at United. Ten Hag at the same time, achieved nothing more than them and yet considered good enough to be United' savior.

Ole had no qualifications whatsoever for the job, Ten Hag was one of the most promising coaches in world football.

Smal margins Stories are reinforced and repeated on social media and people suddenly start to believe in hypes - both ups and downs.

 

[Shakesy]

I'd expect 12 points there.

Prepare to be disappointed then

 

[Wazzaduke33]

So the barometer for success to manage one of, if not the biggest club in the world is to surpass Ole’s reign ? My good we are scraping the barrel now . . .

 

[11101]

Smal margins Stories are reinforced and repeated on social media and people suddenly start to believe in hypes - both ups and downs.

What's wrong with that? Ole's CV consisted of little more than relegating Cardiff. Ten Hag was the most talked about up and coming coach in world football at Ajax.

 

[city-puma]

You guys are really funny. Arguing for the sake of arguing. Well, it probably can help relieve some mental stress and sadness due to our poor season so far.

 

[Ole's screen]

This is the correct answer.

Ole fan boys slagging off ETH fan boys is fecking hilarious though.

The fact remains the Ole is the only manager since Fergie to manage back to back top 4 finishes. That makes him the most consistent. He also broke a lot of scoring records - at one point we set the record for the most number of consecutive games scoring 3+ goals in league history. And also his two full seasons we scored the highest number goals per season since SAF. That makes him the most attacking. We also had a very good record coming from behind under him.

Add that to the fact that he’s a legend who played a major role in a historical treble, it’s not hard to see why holds a special place in some United fans hearts. In fact it’s kinda disgraceful that some fans like to denigrate his standing among the fans by calling people who like him Ole fan boys.

 

[Ole's screen]

What's wrong with that? Ole's CV consisted of little more than relegating Cardiff. Ten Hag was the most talked about up and coming coach in world football at Ajax.

Ole’s CV of being a United player who played and coached under SAF means much more to me than ETH walking through the Dutch league with Ajax.
Wished we took a leaf out of Ajax, Barcelona, etc and started developing our own coaches instead of just poaching some overhyped coach from other teams.

 

[Robbie Boy]

The fact remains the Ole is the only manager since Fergie to manage back to back top 4 finishes. That makes him the most consistent. He also broke a lot of scoring records - at one point we set the record for the most number of consecutive games scoring 3+ goals in league history. And also his two full seasons we scored the highest number goals per season since SAF. That makes him the most attacking. We also had a very good record coming from behind under him.

Add that to the fact that he’s a legend who played a major role in a historical treble, it’s not hard to see why holds a special place in some United fans hearts. In fact it’s kinda disgraceful that some fans like to denigrate his standing among the fans by calling people who like him Ole fan boys.

Well, others in here are accusing people of being ETH cultists and fan boys, so fair is fair. I'm not a fan of either term BTW.

Ole was slightly better than some of our failed managers, that's about it. Ultimately he was a failure, though. His tenure smacked of mediocrity despite some fun spells. Our fans need to stop hero worshipping our failed post-Fergie managers, it's fecking weird. Celebrate Ole the player, but celebrating Ole the manager is odd, as is trying to paint his spell as anything other than a failure.

I don't blame him though. He should never have gotten the full-time gig, and it was due to our club being run like a fecking circus that he did. I'm happy you enjoyed his spell; I didn't.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Or a side that was having an off season and just needed new blood to start performing again. This is a terrible argument. Conte took Chelsea from 10th to 1st in a year not because he was a miracle worker but because this side already won the league one year ago and were just having a meltdown under Mourinho. They were champions and just needed new blood. Same for United last season. The team was top 4 quality but were just having an off season. They finished 3rd and 2nd two seasons in a row.




When Ole was an interim coach he reached a CL QF and knocked out Chelsea and Arsenal back to back from the Fa Cup run. Next season he got KOed from both cups against Chelsea and City in the semi. "choke in cups" yet your savior haven't faced a team as half strong as these in his two glorious cup runs last season.




Ten Hag inherited a team who already managed to cut the gap to 12 points one year ago. It's his job to get it closer to the top not act like a miracle he finished top 4, 14 points away from the top.



"Annoyed"

I'm just not delusional, like you. Previous managers achieved the same results, finished in same position and won similar cups and more. Yet they're all considered a failure and the other is considered a god by his fans and people can't think of any better replacement. Ole, whose only experience in PL before getting the United was relegating Cardiff, basically a nothing coach, managed 3rd and 2nd league finish and a Europe League final. It's not as hard as Ten Hag fans are making it out to be. Any manager will achieve similar results because it's not a miracle for United. It's the bare minimum.

He was brought in to implement a clear style and identity and building the team to get closer to the top, not to win the League Cup.



I know. Look at Chelsea in Mourinho's meltdown season and how they recovered next year, as mentioned above. Look at Real Madrid under Benitez and how they recovered under Zidane..etc. Shit seasons happen.



I won't trust the opinion of someone who thinks Ten Hag is a good coach.



Great achievement.



That reminds me of the tired argument that Ole got top 4 twice in a row unlike any other manager post Ferguson. A pointless stat that no one is interested in bar such manager's defenders. Yeah, Ten Hag managed a top 4 and a domestic cup in his first year. Ole also is the only manager who managed top 4 twice in a row and Mourinho is the only manager who managed to win two trophies in his first season .. so ?

The net result is the previous 3 managers all managed top 4, all of them reached finals and two of them won trophies at similar level or even more prestigious than what Ten Hag won yet we're acting like he pulled something unprecedented in the post Fergie era.

Spunk Trench

 

[Son]

Both lost the dressing room

Ten Hag hasn’t lost the dressing room. We still attack and it’s nothing to do with lack of effort. Players are just a little confused and the defence keeps doing dumb mistakes because it’s paper thin squad depth right now.

Things will settle have patience.

We cannot have a caretaker manager. After about 3 caretaker managers in the past 4 years you just cannot do it. We have to stick with Ten Hag now win or lose. It’s looks awful optics wise on our club sacking yet another coach and for what?

We’ll still have the same problems but we’ll have to buy a full new team. We cannot keep changing the coach while Glazers, Arnold, Fletcher are above them. It’s pointless and hurts the squad longer term chopping and changing players and tactics.

 

[stevoc]

We were eighth with Ole and we finished the season in sixth place with Rangnick. We were bad under Rangnick, but better than how we were playing under Ole

Nah we actually got worse after an initial up tick in results due to new manager bounce. The win ratio under Ralf decreased.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

The fact remains the Ole is the only manager since Fergie to manage back to back top 4 finishes. That makes him the most consistent. He also broke a lot of scoring records - at one point we set the record for the most number of consecutive games scoring 3+ goals in league history. And also his two full seasons we scored the highest number goals per season since SAF. That makes him the most attacking. We also had a very good record coming from behind under him.

Add that to the fact that he’s a legend who played a major role in a historical treble, it’s not hard to see why holds a special place in some United fans hearts. In fact it’s kinda disgraceful that some fans like to denigrate his standing among the fans by calling people who like him Ole fan boys.

Yeah, these two things never happened.

 

[Revan]

Nah we actually got worse after an initial up tick in results due to new manager bounce. The win ratio under Ralf decreased.

We won 0.2 points/game more with Rangnick than with Ole.

 

[stevoc]

We won 0.2 points/game more with Rangnick than with Ole.

Win ratio included Cup games mate. No points awarded in most cup games.

We got worse under Ralf which is actually quite an achievement considering how bad we were when Ole got sacked.

 

[Revan]

Win ratio included Cup games mate. No points awarded in most cup games.

That might be the case. But at the same time easier to defeat Sociedad than Atletico, I guess. Ole was in the first half of the season when you get early cup matches (early rounds).

 

[Di Maria's angel]

The fact remains the Ole is the only manager since Fergie to manage back to back top 4 finishes. That makes him the most consistent. He also broke a lot of scoring records - at one point we set the record for the most number of consecutive games scoring 3+ goals in league history. And also his two full seasons we scored the highest number goals per season since SAF. That makes him the most attacking. We also had a very good record coming from behind under him.

Add that to the fact that he’s a legend who played a major role in a historical treble, it’s not hard to see why holds a special place in some United fans hearts. In fact it’s kinda disgraceful that some fans like to denigrate his standing among the fans by calling people who like him Ole fan boys.

We also broke the record for the most number of usernames containing the word Ole.

 

[stevoc]

That might be the case. But at the same time easier to defeat Sociedad than Atletico, I guess. Ole was in the first half of the season when you get early cup matches (early rounds).

Yeah true Ole didn't have to compete against titans of the game like Middlesbrough.

We didn't play Sociedad that season, we did play Villareal though who only finished a few places behind Atletico that season.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Ole’s CV of being a United player who played and coached under SAF means much more to me than ETH walking through the Dutch league with Ajax.
Wished we took a leaf out of Ajax, Barcelona, etc and started developing our own coaches instead of just poaching some overhyped coach from other teams.

Absolute trainwreck of a post, and exactly why people would rightly label you as a "fanboy".
A managerial CV cannot be based on what someone did as a player, that much should be obvious.
Add to that the casual use of the nonsensical term "overhyped" and the dismissal of achievements at other clubs/leagues, the notion of "hired hands", all of which becomes especially daft when you consider that every single successful top club manager in the history of the Premier Leauge, and above all Sir Alex Ferguson, were poached as 'hired hands' from other teams in other leagues.

And to make it absolutely clear, it is not 'denigrating' Solskjaer to state that all in all he was not good enough a manager for our club and someone who, based on his CV, should never have been hired for the job. It is just common sense.

 

[Robbie Boy]

We've just become really fecking small-time tbh. Our fans celebrate the weirdest of things about our post-Fergie managers. One that still goes around is 'that night in Paris'. Ole is hailed as a miracle maker for beating PSG, how many years later. Meanwhile, an Eddie Howe led Newcastle containing superstars such as Dan Burn and Sean Longstaff have just dicked PSG 4-1.

Every single one of our post-Fergie managers have been terrible to some degree. ETH had a decent first season but the wheels also seem to be falling off for him too. Our club is a circus but every single post-Fergie manager has played their part in the state we are in.

 

[Dec9003]

Ten Hag hasn’t lost the dressing room. We still attack and it’s nothing to do with lack of effort. Players are just a little confused and the defence keeps doing dumb mistakes because it’s paper thin squad depth right now.

Things will settle have patience.

We cannot have a caretaker manager. After about 3 caretaker managers in the past 4 years you just cannot do it. We have to stick with Ten Hag now win or lose. It’s looks awful optics wise on our club sacking yet another coach and for what?

We’ll still have the same problems but we’ll have to buy a full new team. We cannot keep changing the coach while Glazers, Arnold, Fletcher are above them. It’s pointless and hurts the squad longer term chopping and changing players and tactics.

You don’t need to buy a full new team when you change managers, this has never been the case. If we can identify a manager that will get the most out of our squad then we should go for him, especially if he is seen as a better fit than Ten Hag.

 

[Ole's screen]

We also broke the record for the most number of usernames containing the word Ole.

That’s what happens when a club legend brings back good vibes to a club starving for it.

 

[Ole's screen]

Yeah, these two things never happened.

It didn’t quite remember that right but we did set a PL record by winning 4 consecutive games with a 3+ margin
Link: https://www.republicworld.com/amp/s...mier-league-team-4-wins-3-goal-advantage.html

in regards to goals scored per season in the PL the best we’ve done since SAF is:
1. 73 in 20-21 under Ole
2. 68 in 17-18 under Jose
3. 66 in 19-20 under Ole
Stats from Fbref.com

So yeah I got the technical details wrong because I was going off the top of my head, but my point still stands - we were at out most free scoring post Fergie during Ole’s reign.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

It didn’t quite remember that right but we did set a PL record by winning 4 consecutive games with a 3+ margin
Link: https://www.republicworld.com/amp/s...mier-league-team-4-wins-3-goal-advantage.html

in regards to goals scored per season in the PL the best we’ve done since SAF is:
1. 73 in 20-21 under Ole
2. 68 in 17-18 under Jose
3. 66 in 19-20 under Ole
Stats from Fbref.com

So yeah I got the technical details wrong because I was going off the top of my head, but my point still stands - we were at out most free scoring post Fergie during Ole’s reign.

We were fecking crap under Ole, like a very expensive pub side. And the fawning over him was unbearable after a while.

 

[flappyjay]

We've just become really fecking small-time tbh. Our fans celebrate the weirdest of things about our post-Fergie managers. One that still goes around is 'that night in Paris'. Ole is hailed as a miracle maker for beating PSG, how many years later. Meanwhile, an Eddie Howe led Newcastle containing superstars such as Dan Burn and Sean Longstaff have just dicked PSG 4-1.

Every single one of our post-Fergie managers have been terrible to some degree. ETH had a decent first season but the wheels also seem to be falling off for him too. Our club is a circus but every single post-Fergie manager has played their part in the state we are in.

Come on now we beat them away with a midfield of fred, Andreas and McTominay that's what was impressive about that result.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Come on now we beat them away with a midfield of fred, Andreas and McTominay that's what was impressive about that result.

Never said it wasn't. But, the fact people still bang on about it years later is very fecking small-time. Ultimately, it led to nothing.

Buttttt, Newcastle literally had players like Lascelles, Burn, Schar and Longstaff playing. So, all in all, their win was probably more impressive. Thing is, we should be going toe-to-toe with top clubs, but because we don't do it consistently, our fans bang on about when Ole beat City, PSG etc. It's all very fecking small-time.

 

[RedUnited86]

How do we think Ole would have done with the same Ajax side?

 

[troylocker]

We won 0.2 points/game more with Rangnick than with Ole.

Rangnick's winrate as manager for Man United:

Manchester United (interim)

2 December 2021

22 May 2022

31

11

12

8

35.48

Solskjaer's winrate as a manager for Man United:

Manchester United​

19 December 2018​

21 November 2021​

168

91

37

40

54.17

The 21/22 season was killed on deadline day though. It was always going to be tough from there...

ETH should be able to turn this around with the players he has, maybe never play Amrabat on the left back again though....

 

[Crashoutcassius]

My God, what in fcuk’s name happened to Ole during those 5 matches?!

Thrashed by city and Liverpool

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Does he really though?

Ole took a Molde that had finished 11th the season before to their 1st and 2nd ever league titles back-to-back.

The two seasons before Ten Hag took over Ajax had finished 2nd twice at 82 (2015/16) and 81 (2016/17) points. His titles were won with 86, 88 and 83 respectively. That's almost coasting.

Of course he did.

Why are you ignoring the Champion's League? It's the only way of assessing the quality of any club team outside its own league. So kind of important if we're comparing resumes here.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

And to make it absolutely clear, it is not 'denigrating' Solskjaer to state that all in all he was not good enough a manager for our club and someone who, based on his CV, should never have been hired for the job. It is just common sense.

Sure but I think the poster's point is that you don't need to hire managers on the basis of their CV.

Guardiola, Luis Enrique, Vilanova, Xavi at Barcelona, Zidane at Real Madrid, Arteta at Arsenal, these are not managers hired on the basis of a CV.

 

[Scandi Red]

Sure but I think the poster's point is that you don't need to hire managers on the basis of their CV.

Guardiola, Luis Enrique, Vilanova, Xavi at Barcelona, Zidane at Real Madrid, Arteta at Arsenal, these are not managers hired on the basis of a CV.

I think it has become a rule amount certain football fans that if a manager with a weak CV fails, then the club should have seen it coming. And when a manager with a good CV fails then the club should have known that they were past it.

Now that we are trying out the type of profile that fans have been screaming for and things aren't (at the moment) looking any better, people have ran out of ideas. Even the most impatient fool understands that managers like Pep and Klopp are rare and it's not a given that they will join us either.

So what is the option? The obvious answer is to fix the club itself, from top to bottom. But in the meantime we need a strategy concerning the managers we pick. We have more or less tried it all now. The only thing left is to become like Chelsea and fire managers left and right.

 

[CG1010]

I wasn't in favour of sacking Ole when he had done well in previous seasons and not in favour of sacking ETH. The problem isn't the manager but the owners. When the engine of a car is a problem you don't keep replacing new tires with another new set in hopes to get the car running.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think it has become a rule amount certain football fans that if a manager with a weak CV fails, then the club should have seen it coming. And when a manager with a good CV fails then the club should have known that they were past it.

Now that we are trying out the type of profile that fans have been screaming for and things aren't (at the moment) looking any better, people have ran out of ideas. Even the most impatient fool understands that managers like Pep and Klopp are rare and it's not a given that they will join us either.

So what is the option? The obvious answer is to fix the club itself, from top to bottom. But in the meantime we need a strategy concerning the managers we pick. We have more or less tried it all now. The only thing left is to become like Chelsea and fire managers left and right.

That’s the killer. All our previous post-Fergie managers came with very obvious caveats. Either had it all to prove, or already on a downward trend. With their post United careers really only confirming that those doubts were well founded (unless current West Ham form continues anyway!)

With ETH there were no such caveats. So his failure removes any last hope that we can turn this shit show round without root and branch reform (which may never happen)

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

So what is the option? The obvious answer is to fix the club itself, from top to bottom. But in the meantime we need a strategy concerning the managers we pick. We have more or less tried it all now. The only thing left is to become like Chelsea and fire managers left and right.

I think the biggest issue at the club has been the quality of the recruitment.

There seems to be this idea at Redcafe that you need to build a squad around a manager's tactical needs, and that sacking a manager means you need a new squad and have to start from scratch. But it shouldn't be the case. Top players can play in multiple systems. Samuel Eto'o won consecutive trebles under Guardiola and Mourinho. Xabi Alonso went from Mourinho (at RM) to Guardiola (at Bayern). Arjen Robben played under Mourinho, Van Gaal, and Guardiola. Luis Suarez and David Villa were key strikers for tiki-taka Barcelona and Simeone's Atletico. Now, obviously players have weaknesses that will be more exposed under some tactical approaches than others, and players can't do everything. But very good / great players can do a lot. Players who can only function well in one system are just limited.

I've noticed sometimes people here think that other clubs don't have this problem because they follow a philosophy or they have a DoF that is thinking long-term. But it's not always true. A lot of it is simply signing players who are better, who have more abilities. When a new manager comes along, they can find a use for the player's many abilities.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think the biggest issue at the club has been the quality of the recruitment.

There seems to be this idea at Redcafe that you need to build a squad around a manager's tactical needs, and that sacking a manager means you need a new squad and have to start from scratch. But it shouldn't be the case. Top players can play in multiple systems. Samuel Eto'o won consecutive trebles under Guardiola and Mourinho. Xabi Alonso went from Mourinho (at RM) to Guardiola (at Bayern). Arjen Robben played under Mourinho, Van Gaal, and Guardiola. Luis Suarez and David Villa were key strikers for tiki-taka Barcelona and Simeone's Atletico. Now, obviously players have weaknesses that will be more exposed under some tactical approaches than others, and players can't do everything. But very good / great players can do a lot. Players who can only function well in one system are just limited.

I've noticed sometimes people here think that other clubs don't have this problem because they follow a philosophy or they have a DoF that is thinking long-term. But it's not always true. A lot of it is simply signing players who are better, who have more abilities. When a new manager comes along, they can find a use for the player's many abilities.

I've come to that conclusion too. The only evidence against this would be players leaving United and looking great at other clubs. Which basically never happens. The one and only example I can think of is Angel DiMaria. But he seems to be the exception that proves the rule. We've been fundamentally incapable of identifying and signing top class footballers over a period of at least 10 years. In fact, this issue probably goes all the way back to Fergie's last few years when we papered over cracks with the extraordinary longevity and quality of homegrown players, Giggs and Scholes. I don't know if the problem is failing to identify good players or failing to get the signings across the line (Bellingham or Bale, for example) Probably a combination of both. And if won't fix that problem we will never be a successful club.