Ole's regression in instilling big game mentality

VP89

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Before I start on this - feck off if you think this is blindly bashing the manager, he's done good job all things considered this season, and we are in good position in the league at the moment. But like all managers, Ole will also be held to account, and this is something I've thought about for a while. I wanted to defer my opinion until after this match to see if something were to change from today.

In our games vs the traditional top 6, we've been absolutely passive against Liverpool, City, Chelsea (reverse), second 45 vs Chelsea today, and Arsenal (x2). We've mustered what a 0-0 vs Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Chelsea twice whilst being spanked by Spurs. Our only goal in these big games have been in a 6-1 drubbing to Spurs and we haven't scored a single one from open play.

I took exception that the soak and counter approach was the right approach in many of these games, I felt we should have been more bold vs Chelsea at OT, vs Liverpool when they were dogshite, vs and Arsenal both times. I've seen Ole make changes far too late which tells me where his intention lies - today for example Tuchel would bring on Pulisic earlier and look to Werner later on. Ole didn't bother with Martial until 70-75 minutes and left it as is.

Although choking in semi-finals is just bad luck in isolation, it's still undoubtedly going toward a weak mentality when we have big games when you consider how torrid our form is this season in such games.

Our record vs top 6 worked last season because our fast counters under Ole was still a surprise factor. But teams are smarter to it now and will just nullify us. Today for the first 45 I thought OK, this game looks completely different to the others so maybe he's changing it, but the shitness of the second half just made it obvious that he was happy to settle.

Was it right to maybe settle for a draw today? Perhaps - losing would have put Chelsea 3 points behind us. Was it right to settle for a draw vs City earlier? Perhaps. Liverpool at Anfield? For me given how they were, no, but you can see the other side.

But, to play so passively for large portions of every game against the top 6 is not what we are about. It's not even a quality thing, we have players who can do damage, who can hurt teams but we play like we're too fecking scared to go at teams now.

If we played in our previous big games like how we did in the first half against Chelsea today, we'd have undoubtedly clocked up 6-9 more points than we have. But I look back on a large sample size of "big" games and can only really deduce 45 minutes of proactive football taking the game to the opponent. And it's not good enough - he needs to address this.
 

Delano

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Its so passive and reactive. Since the Spurs game, the ambition has been to sure ourselves up in defence and hit on the break.

Problem is, our final third play has been absolutely appalling in these games. Everything is so uncontrolled and rushed which results in a game where we don't look like scoring or conceding.
 

Vidyoyo

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Jokes aside, I agree we've been a but tepid against the big boys. We've lacked a cutting edge but I don't put that down to the manager solely.

It looks like we try a little too hard to play round the opposition, like we respect them too much. We're much better at being more direct so maybe more of that?
 
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Eplel

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We don't have an attacking plan, and it's obvious. Ole needs to wake up on this.
 

Tallis

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We don’t have the goods. Tactics will only take you so far - the owners fecked us in the summer.
 

El Zoido

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I don’t mind it, better than losing. We can build on it, not worried at all.
 

Chairman Steve

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The 6-1 loss to Spurs at OT has scared the piss out of him for big games. Before that we were fairly decent in them.
 

SAFMUTD

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We don’t have the goods. Tactics will only take you so far - the owners fecked us in the summer.
A more limited squad last season faced the top teams differently.

It's clear the approach has changed and its a small time approach.
 

VP89

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Ole out?

Jokes aside, I agree we've been tepid against the big boys. We've lacked a cutting edge but I don't put that down to the manager solely.
I just caught the last sentence - I think it is to do with that because we have actually been playing with a very passive outlook. It's clearly soak pressure and hit on the break. Some are tweaked to account for the opposition rather than suit our own strength, even when the opposition is a shadow of what they were (e.g. Pogba on right vs Liverpool when they were there for the taking).

It can be bad luck or lack of cutting edge if it happens in 1 or 2 or even 2-3 games. But this many? And without a single goal from open play in any of them? No, there's an issue with how we set out against top sides for me.
 

Ali Dia

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We don’t have the goods. Tactics will only take you so far - the owners fecked us in the summer.
Bingo. He’s got us hanging in there. This is flat out the most he’s going to get out of this team. Should we have done better in big games? They’ve all looked very even to me apart from Spurs. We just don’t have that last bit of quality or confidence to get the job done in tight games.
 

Park's Petrified Pooch

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We don’t have the goods. Tactics will only take you so far - the owners fecked us in the summer.
What tactics were we using to win today’s game? We were incredibly passive. Happy to just survive. It’s been the same in all of Ole’s big games and it’s cost us time and again. When good teams don’t leave oceans of space we don’t score. Op is right.
 

JPRouve

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We are second in the league. Why do you hastily bash the manager like that?
 

InfiniteBoredom

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The 6-1 loss to Spurs at OT has scared the piss out of him for big games. Before that we were fairly decent in them.
I dont buy this line of thought, we won against PSG after that playing the same way.

It’s evident that he has only one plan for big games, sit back and counter, and when it doesn’t work we are lost. That isn’t going to change.
 

Fooza

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Meh, our standards have been so low in the past few seasons that we are seeing this season "as a good job". Ole's done well by shifting the bad changing room and he's done well to sort the mess left by our previous managers. But by the end of this season, I will look at it as the year we were cowards and didn't make the most of a title challenge when we had the best chance as all other teams are struggling including Liverpool.

Come at me Ole supporters - I don't really care, I still don't think he's the man to take us to trophies and nothing has changed my mind.
 

Roboc7

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The other big teams had already adjusted to how we play last season, this rot set in then. Ole seems oblivious and is just plodding along with same tactics hoping it will work.
 

Anduin

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Not on Ole that Bruno and especially Pogba miss sitters at Anfield, Cavani can’t score an open fecking goal at the Emirates and the ref screws us over today over the obvious CHO handball. Not saying I’m overly happy with Ole’s general approach in these sort of games, but I like our resilience and with a bit more luck we could’ve easily had 9/9 points from these games.

Actually, I’m trying to see the positives, Spurs home aside, we’ve conceded one goal in six games v Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City and Liverpool. Bodes well for the upcoming cup games...
 

MadDogg

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A significant part of it is just because of how poor our attackers have been this season. Last season we could destroy teams on the break because we had Martial, Rashford and Greenwood all firing in front of goal, with Bruno pulling the strings.

This season we have Bruno destroying half our attacking plays by just giving the ball away, Rashford destroying the other half because he just stands there until he gets the ball then he gives it away as well, and both Martial and Greenwood have had poor movement in the box so aren't getting opportunities to score. If those players were playing the same way they were last season we'd be flying.

Of course the question then becomes how much (if any) fault Ole has in those attacking players all being in poor form. Other than that I don't see any real difference between how we are playing against the top teams this season compared to last season.
 

Wumminator

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feck me.

we should have won today if the ref hasn’t cheated and told the players he’d cheated. And then he’d be a genius.
 

Ali Dia

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We are second in the league. Why do you hastily bash the manager like that?
because our fans are winners :nervous:
The club haven’t given him the goods. I don’t care what anyone says. Yes Maguire AWB and VDB but that’s it as far as improving the first team and that’s over 2 years now yet people expect him to play dominant, drilled, attacking football... it’s just not realistic.
 

abailey123

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Think Keane hit the nail on the head in analysis- maybe that Spurs game is still in the subconscious.
Most of those games we had the chances to win the game which is the biggest frustration
 

AaronRedDevil

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feck me.

we should have won today if the ref hasn’t cheated and told the players he’d cheated. And then he’d be a genius.
Exactly. Maybe he just knows we are very limited with the quality of players we have so think it’s best to just not lose.
 

FrankDrebin

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We dont have a nimble footed midfielders outside of Bruno and Pogba. Fred and McTom have their strengths but their weaknesses were yet again apparent in todays game. They're not tight on the ball.
We dont make it easy for them though by not making smart moves off the ball.
 

RedDevilCanuck

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Chelsea and Arsenal are nothing to be afraid of.

We are better in almost every department. We have much more attacking talent.

Very disappointing.
 

Sandikan

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We don’t have the goods. Tactics will only take you so far - the owners fecked us in the summer.
This is the truth.

We all knew we needed at least a couple of upgrades to the team, and we didn't get them.

Instead we lashed 40m on Van Beek for the squad, who barely gets near the pitch, as he plays the same position as our has to play best player.
 

Bilbo

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We set up cautiously against them, and they set up cautiously against us.

I dont think it's particularly red tinted to suggest that we were the most likely side to win in most of those 0-0s. We just aren't taking our chances, or lack a little bit of quality when it matters.

Today was a good point for us. No need to over-analyse it. The team are coming along fine
 

wolvored

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Ole has one plan to counter. What has happened is the clever managers and they are usually at the bigger clubs now know how to nullify this. If we concede we got no chance of winning to these top sides
 

Feed Me

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I thought he was good today in his set up. We shouldn’t conflate the same old result being the same old approach. There’s a good template moving forward but we need some better players.