Your top 6 definition is very fluid I see. I don't disagree that the results have been bad but each game has its set of circumstances that need to be into consideration.
Like today the referee refusing to give us a clear pen
Ole's regression in instilling big game mentality
- Thread starter VP89
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Like today the referee refusing to give us a clear pen
God, I thought I was a miserable cnut, but reading this thread... 
Answer is plain and simple, whether somebody likes it or not. Ole is not carved out for big teams. Take a look at the best teams in England and in Europe, they may be playing with certain differences, but their main idea is to be proactive, to take the game to opponents. Ole will never be like that, give him the best squad in the world, and he may win more, but he will not turn his side into Guardiola or Klopp style teams.
Contrary to what people think, managers don't really drastically change their football philosophies. It is not completely connected to a team they lead. Klopp has played attacking football at Mainz who are cannon fodder in Germany.
This season should be Ole's last in charge of our team, if we want to win anything meaningful in foreseeable future.
Contrary to what people think, managers don't really drastically change their football philosophies. It is not completely connected to a team they lead. Klopp has played attacking football at Mainz who are cannon fodder in Germany.
This season should be Ole's last in charge of our team, if we want to win anything meaningful in foreseeable future.
It’s nothing to do with mentality, just a lack of quality. we aren’t good enough to go gung ho against teams
We are above them all in the table except for one.
I think it’s a lack of quality in certain areas and a lack of time on the training pitch. The latter has affected everyone of course but only Pep has managed to deal with it. I expect a lot more next season.
FFs shit thread blindly bashing the manager. Did you watch the game?
Can't believe the dross I see on here sometimes
I’m not so sure, under LVG we had a worse team but he used to do well against the big teams.
That doesn’t really mean much, we aren’t MUCH better than Chelsea or liverpool or Tottenham etc. We’ve managed to grind through results with moments of magic rather than playing teams off the park.
today suited us more not to lose but we still had 2 chances to win the game and the passes let us down.
I don't buy it at all. We are still second, above those teams. Clearly overall we must have a better team, the table doesn't lie. You can't excuse not winning a single game against those teams we are better than and only scoring one goal in those matches. I mean I could understand it if we were inconsistent and had a few wins and a few losses but that's unacceptable.
Ole got a lot of credit in the past for results against big teams and he deserves criticism for the results we are currently getting. It's not good enough and he needs to improve big time if we ever want to seriously challenge.
I do agree we should have probably gone for it more in some games, but we’ve been a bit unlucky in a few also.
to be honest I think the away record is harming us more than doing good at this point, he’s more concerned about not losing than dropping 2 more points.
draws are more costly. You can draw 8 times and take less points than winning 3 and losing 5, but obviously losing can knock your confidence which I think Ole is worried about, we know this team are bottlers.
I dont think its any bigger than the likes of Everton, no. They barely got into the top 4 last year and are now 5th. I dont think its freezing against Chelsea because we have a fantastic record against them over the last 3 years. Are teams feeezing against us because if its a draw for us then its a draw for them too.
Theres a lot of draws in the top games this year. Simply because we arent losing them should give us the benefitt of the doubt in this type of season.
Just look at the side Tuchel put out. Chelsa set out overly defensively in both games against us this season imo.
Its a huge step that other so called top sides are weary of us now.
We beat city twice, Chelsea twice and 4 points v spurs last season but we still struggled to get top 4. That's where we are at. I will always be a manchester United fan regardless of the managers capabilities.
Whats a bit sad is, going into the game against City next weekend, I don't expect us to score. Which is massively worrying.
20 games unbeaten away in the league.
A new club record.
A new club record.
We have been defensive and playing on counters in big games since Ole came.
Only thing that has changed is big teams aren't stupid enough to give us chances to counter anymore.
Nothing has changed from our perspective.
Only thing that has changed is big teams aren't stupid enough to give us chances to counter anymore.
Nothing has changed from our perspective.
We are actually unbeaten by the current 6 other teams in the top 7 this season. Sheffield United loss west Brom draw and the late Everton goal is a far bigger concern.
Exactly. I’m expecting another disappointing summer transfer window this year.
It's other teams being very aware of our main and really only strength in fast counters. We were good before as better opposition took more risks, now it's more them making sure they don't get caught out and we're left with many cagey games. It's quite a shock to see even City happy to not extended themselves too much and take a point. They can afford to go for it at Eastlands though.
The Real Sociadad game is a good example of a team playing right into our hands then learning from their mistakes to play out another drab 0-0. We really struggle in creating without a team on the backfoot, that's amplified greatly against bottom of the league teams. Better teams can just not play so high but not sit back either resulting in not much happening.
The Real Sociadad game is a good example of a team playing right into our hands then learning from their mistakes to play out another drab 0-0. We really struggle in creating without a team on the backfoot, that's amplified greatly against bottom of the league teams. Better teams can just not play so high but not sit back either resulting in not much happening.
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I’m getting in to arguments about this on the United WhatsApp group cause they just don’t get it.
When Klopp started at Liverpool his job was to instil a winning mentality. That’s why, they came so close to winning the PL and CL even without Alison and VVD, because that winning mentality pushed the players beyond their talent. You then added the quality to that squad and they win CLs and league titles.
We are going completely the wrong way about this, looking at improving quality whilst not rooting out this poor mentality that is festering at the club. You can spend hundreds of millions on the best players but if, as a squad, you don’t have a winning mentality, you will always be missing out.
It is far harder to build on a poor mentality than t is to build on poor talent.
When Klopp started at Liverpool his job was to instil a winning mentality. That’s why, they came so close to winning the PL and CL even without Alison and VVD, because that winning mentality pushed the players beyond their talent. You then added the quality to that squad and they win CLs and league titles.
We are going completely the wrong way about this, looking at improving quality whilst not rooting out this poor mentality that is festering at the club. You can spend hundreds of millions on the best players but if, as a squad, you don’t have a winning mentality, you will always be missing out.
It is far harder to build on a poor mentality than t is to build on poor talent.
We had the better chances away against Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester... the City match at home was a result of both Ole and Pep needing not to lose way more than needing a win. Today’s match would have been disastrous had we lost, and we still looked more likely to take it towards the end of the match, and had a ref who didn’t exactly help. I can’t see why people are so doom and gloom today. It’s not as if a win would have us feeling like we have a shot at catching up with City, and we still pulled away from Leicester.
It's been consistent since the OP. But if you want to include Leicester, go for it - doesn't change us being poor in the big games.
Yes - read posts better.
That's fair enough, I mean we also collapsed versus Everton and couldn't see out a comfortable lead (twice) in that game. I think there is an issue, we are mentally not strong as a side. Gary Neville eluded to it after the whistle today, that we are currently not there yet mentally for big games.
I don't think Tuchel was overly cautious either, he put on more proactive subs than Ole did too.
Van der beek rotting on the bench is the manager’s fault imo. Surely he could have subbed in as a false 9 or for McTominay.
To be fair, he’s hardly been banging the door down himself.
Of course, it has to do with tactics.
Ole doesn't really park the bus but he has made most games a 50/50 one regardless of the opponent.
There's nothing surprising or exciting about his approach to any game this season.
Ole doesn't really park the bus but he has made most games a 50/50 one regardless of the opponent.
There's nothing surprising or exciting about his approach to any game this season.
We didn't do enough to win the game but the forward line is looking either really tired or out of form at the moment. Add a Sancho to the mix and we win today, the difference is the quality of the final ball, that's what we're missing. Pogba may have even made a difference today. Fred and McTomminay are fine but they don't offer much outside of industry.
What about us? Greenwood just missing the top corner, McTominay and Bruno messing up simple passes to send through James and Rashford. A blatant penalty not given. We were well in it for the win today. Not Ole's fault our attackers choked when chances were there. But you can't really expect a lot. It's two good teams playing each other. We need to take our chances when they come...
We have played 7 games against the top 6 this season and got five points. We'd have been better off even if we had only won 2 of those 7 games and lost the other 5. We really should be playing better and stop being so risk averse in these big games.
This thread isn't about one game though it's about a consistent trend which is that we don't take it to big teams. We play it safe and you can tell we're happy with draws.
It's not long ago that this same topic had so many up in arms but you know people like the manager now so suddenly who cares.
There's nothing we can't just blame on the players instead apparently.
Big games are always about limiting mistakes. SAF used to play a 4-5-1 in these big away games. Coming away from the Bridge with a 0-0 draw doesn't concern me in the least. Just like a tie at other tough away grounds. Mind you I don't like it at home. But just a year ago we were 2nd best in the league against the top teams. Sure, we haven't beat any of them this year, but I'm sure that will change next year. it seems to change every year and what I really get out of this is that people are looking for reasons to moan about Ole...
Are people happy we bought Amad? Are people happy we got Greenwood? Are they happy we got Bruno? Are they happy there is clear progression? Patience is a virtue seems to be lost on some, this team , squad is building ok we've seen to many 0-0 in the bigger games , not in any of those games were we hanging on for a draw.
Liverpool pogba scores we win didn't happen, Arsenal away Cavani 2 good chances didn't happen, today we had a few range shots against Chelsea didn't happen . City game was the dullest one as they at the time didn't want to lose as they were in a bad period, they've found a way to get out of it with more established players. Just give this team to progress to get better, with 1 or 2 additional players wait and see. Some of these boys are still young. Having a gripe about the so called bigger games getting a draw, is deemed as passive play, where others look at it being a positive. Last season we finished 3rd and the only team we failed to beat that finished above us was liverpool.
Let's just see how this season pans out, City have stolen a march on title its theres just need to consolidate a top 3 finish again, then go again next season. Some arnt happy with this they think we can go gung ho and chase them, it's tough to get those points in a modern premier league.. Patience that's all is needed at the moment.
Liverpool pogba scores we win didn't happen, Arsenal away Cavani 2 good chances didn't happen, today we had a few range shots against Chelsea didn't happen . City game was the dullest one as they at the time didn't want to lose as they were in a bad period, they've found a way to get out of it with more established players. Just give this team to progress to get better, with 1 or 2 additional players wait and see. Some of these boys are still young. Having a gripe about the so called bigger games getting a draw, is deemed as passive play, where others look at it being a positive. Last season we finished 3rd and the only team we failed to beat that finished above us was liverpool.
Let's just see how this season pans out, City have stolen a march on title its theres just need to consolidate a top 3 finish again, then go again next season. Some arnt happy with this they think we can go gung ho and chase them, it's tough to get those points in a modern premier league.. Patience that's all is needed at the moment.
He's happy with a point in these games. Plain and simple.
Not once has he made a change in personnel or tactics to go for a win.
He'd rather plod along on the middle road, then try and risk a win and it backfire. You don't win league titles like that.
It's one thing doing at Liverpool or City. Ole has done it against very poor Chelsea and Arsenal teams. Pretty gutless.
Not once has he made a change in personnel or tactics to go for a win.
He'd rather plod along on the middle road, then try and risk a win and it backfire. You don't win league titles like that.
It's one thing doing at Liverpool or City. Ole has done it against very poor Chelsea and Arsenal teams. Pretty gutless.
I've said it on this forum time and again, the man is a coward.
He doesn't have the balls to go for it and he doesn't have the mental fortitude to make big decisions in dropping players or selecting a starting 11 based on performances and not based on who's on his personal birthday invite list.
He's also a coward because he knows that going for the win, instead of playing a bore 0-0 and making sure top 4 doesn't slip, will give him a few more seasons in a job where he's got no right being in based on his previous achievements.
I am so done with this negative approach and selecting Championship players like James and others like McTominay who's better suited for the rugby field. The former should not be at our club and the latter should be a bench option at attacking midfield and has no place in the middle of the park.
He doesn't have the balls to go for it and he doesn't have the mental fortitude to make big decisions in dropping players or selecting a starting 11 based on performances and not based on who's on his personal birthday invite list.
He's also a coward because he knows that going for the win, instead of playing a bore 0-0 and making sure top 4 doesn't slip, will give him a few more seasons in a job where he's got no right being in based on his previous achievements.
I am so done with this negative approach and selecting Championship players like James and others like McTominay who's better suited for the rugby field. The former should not be at our club and the latter should be a bench option at attacking midfield and has no place in the middle of the park.
What a load of bitter bollocks.
Just out of curiosity, who did Liverpool have from the bench to change the game in the last two, three seasons? Origi? Don't let that fool you. Martial would be classed as a world-class player if he was in the hands of Pep or Klopp.
And where's the proof of that? Nowhere, because it's a completely baseless notion you're trying to pass off as fact.
I don’t think we were passive today. In fact, I think the back four and the midfield played very aggressively and we pressed high.
I still think it comes down to lack of star quality in forward positions in key moments.
If we had a prime Cavani/RvN on the field today, they get on the end of Dan James’ cross, we win 1-0 and we say what a fantastically professional away performance it was. If we had a prime Ronaldo or David Beckham bursting clear in the 90th minute with the chance to square it to four on-rushing players, they make that pass and we win 1-0.
Big games have long been tight, tactical and cagey. It takes moments of high quality sometimes to make the breakthrough and I’m not sure any of our forward players quite fit that “top quality” bracket - although I am sure Greenwood could one day
I still think it comes down to lack of star quality in forward positions in key moments.
If we had a prime Cavani/RvN on the field today, they get on the end of Dan James’ cross, we win 1-0 and we say what a fantastically professional away performance it was. If we had a prime Ronaldo or David Beckham bursting clear in the 90th minute with the chance to square it to four on-rushing players, they make that pass and we win 1-0.
Big games have long been tight, tactical and cagey. It takes moments of high quality sometimes to make the breakthrough and I’m not sure any of our forward players quite fit that “top quality” bracket - although I am sure Greenwood could one day
I don't see as a problem with mentality, we actually play hard & fight for everything. We are just not great going forward and rely a lot on individual brilliance . Obviously in big games we are not able to control games offensively & still rely on Bruno or Rashford to do something individually .
Last season, we approached the games cautiously, waiting for a break and being mindful of committing too much in attack. We are still approaching the games the same way this season, but the problem for us is that the other teams are now using the same approach when playing against us too. Always going to lead to stalemates.
When is the parade?