That's it. I tried to convince many people who think PSG and City have unlimited funds and we are skint which is not true, but they can't spend more than their revenue even though their operating cost ratio is at 99% of their total revenue, they cant spend much more as much they like to and get away with FFP's strict rule. Yes they blew all of their transfer spendings on Neymar for 200m but look at their balance net, they didn't buy much and only spent 170m net and begging Monaco to allow their player to be loaned to PSG with obliged options to buy it outright next summer, so they can avoid getting involved in with FFP. City spent 154m of their cash on the transfer window, just 2 million more than us and City also spent other 70 million that come from player sales. PSG and City's spending power maximum is 160m that they can spend without sales of players, our spending power is 250m to 280m maximum with the debt we were saddled with Glazers in charge. United's operating cost ratio is 79% with transfer window spending included, which tell a lot about United's financial power, we can outspend anyone we want but choose not to and only our priority just to spend 150m net max to keep in with other clubs. After all, Galazer cares about healthy financial and profit, that's it. If we had an owner who doesn't care about profit, we don't need an owner to invest, we can use our revenue to invest.
Oliver holt : Woodward, Glazers and the crippling Lack of Vision that is hobbling united
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That's it. I tried to convince many people who think PSG and City have unlimited funds and we are skint which is not true, but they can't spend more than their revenue even though their operating cost ratio is at 99% of their total revenue, they cant spend much more as much they like to and get away with FFP's strict rule. Yes they blew all of their transfer spendings on Neymar for 200m but look at their balance net, they didn't buy much and only spent 170m net and begging Monaco to allow their player to be loaned to PSG with obliged options to buy it outright next summer, so they can avoid getting involved in with FFP. City spent 154m of their cash on the transfer window, just 2 million more than us and City also spent other 70 million that come from player sales. PSG and City's spending power maximum is 160m that they can spend without sales of players, our spending power is 250m to 280m maximum with the debt we were saddled with Glazers in charge. United's operating cost ratio is 79% with transfer window spending included, which tell a lot about United's financial power, we can outspend anyone we want but choose not to and only our priority just to spend 150m net max to keep in with other clubs. After all, Galazer cares about healthy financial and profit, that's it. If we had an owner who doesn't care about profit, we don't need an owner to invest, we can use our revenue to invest.
Yup. Living out of a hotel is very telling too. It's clearly short term for him. Let's say we offer him another contract, is he gonna carry on living in a hotel?
It is an absolute blessing that the board's vision and footballing nous is being openly questioned.
Why stop there? Because we had Fergie and we won the league. They've invested huge sums of money when the manager has asked for it. What more than they possibly do? Other than buy players Fergie didnt want.
We've spent in the region of 600mil since Fergie left and you are saying the Glazers lack ambition? I'm sorry but I cannot get my head around that, it makes literally no sense. From what Jose has told us we will continue to spent massively and bring in marquee signings, how does that relate to not having ambition? Whether the signings were right or wrong is besides the point, the Glazers have and will continue to spend money to make this team competitive on the highest level.
City is having freak season and our dipped form is aftershock of the derby. We're slipping, but we should be still in contention in different season.
I have doubt even for SAF in this situation. I meant we had talent like Ronaldo and Rooney while having solid quality players yet in those transition, Chelsea & Arsenal didn't get challenged despite we had much more solid team building and even spreading investment. Right now we're not exactly spending more if we're looking at the length of investment. SAF built team upon the foundation of his previous team. When starting low, it took him time even when we're competitive in term of spending back then. This team had none foundation coming from Moyes and LVG.
Getting fed up of this “lack of investment” story. Sorry he’s been giving 150 mil each season, will probably get more in the summer. Seriously he needs to just shut the f*^k up.
I'm not buying into the fact that Man Utd are trying to do an Arsenal here and be content with just a top four finish. The club is too big for that. This is the same team that were banging in 4 goals week in week out but now suddenly the transfer spend is not enough. The confidence of the team has taken a major hit and Mourinho is the only one to blame for that when he decided we couldn't play the same way against a Liverpool team that had a mediocre defence. Since then it's all been downwards.
This clearly shows that Mourinho din't have faith in his players so he set up in a negative way and went for the draw. Imagine what the players must feel like when the manager does something like that. Like Carragher said it's just excuses. This team is good enough to win the Premier league and with a good manager we certainly would have still been fighting for the title.
This clearly shows that Mourinho din't have faith in his players so he set up in a negative way and went for the draw. Imagine what the players must feel like when the manager does something like that. Like Carragher said it's just excuses. This team is good enough to win the Premier league and with a good manager we certainly would have still been fighting for the title.
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It’s not really a ‘lack of investment’ story. It’s a lack of vision story.
When Fellaini and Bailly were fit and Jose had a full squad to choose from we were spanking teams and the media were having a Jose love-fest.
I think the board are probably a little fed up of having a manager who blames the teams shortcomings on a lack of cash everytime results go bad despite being backed heavily.
We lack a Scholes, Pirlo type player and a goal scoring winger before we can expect to start scoring freely again.
Jose is going to have to be very creative in terms of trying to get a player in in January who could make a difference and there might not be any good options available. Lucas Moura wouldn't be a bad option with possibly any 2 of the likes of Dybala, Jorginho, Zaha, Weigl in the summer. We're 3 or 4 top players away from being a team Jose would be happy with.
I think the board are probably a little fed up of having a manager who blames the teams shortcomings on a lack of cash everytime results go bad despite being backed heavily.
We lack a Scholes, Pirlo type player and a goal scoring winger before we can expect to start scoring freely again.
Jose is going to have to be very creative in terms of trying to get a player in in January who could make a difference and there might not be any good options available. Lucas Moura wouldn't be a bad option with possibly any 2 of the likes of Dybala, Jorginho, Zaha, Weigl in the summer. We're 3 or 4 top players away from being a team Jose would be happy with.
Spurs, Pool and Chelsea have spent far lesser than us and play far better football. Money is no excuse, not for United. Yes, City have outspent us. But we play probably the worst football among the top 6, and if the results don't back us, then what exactly is the point of playing such dire football?
Jose has repeatedly said that he wanted 4 players in both the windows, and has managed to get 7/8 players that he wanted. Signing Ibra meant that we had to spend big money on a striker again. We should have bought atleast one fullback, instead we buy Lindelof (who might be a good signing, but not exactly an immediate concern). Last match, the players looked completely lost and uninterested. Absolutely no movement from anyone, all so static. We look absolutely clueless in attack, and that for me is down to coaching.
I really thought Jose was the one who'll take us to the top. That he would regain his mojo, now that he had come to United. But he is looking less and less interested every day. The worst part about all this is that the next manager will have to deal with all these players and the same cycle will continue again.
Jose has repeatedly said that he wanted 4 players in both the windows, and has managed to get 7/8 players that he wanted. Signing Ibra meant that we had to spend big money on a striker again. We should have bought atleast one fullback, instead we buy Lindelof (who might be a good signing, but not exactly an immediate concern). Last match, the players looked completely lost and uninterested. Absolutely no movement from anyone, all so static. We look absolutely clueless in attack, and that for me is down to coaching.
I really thought Jose was the one who'll take us to the top. That he would regain his mojo, now that he had come to United. But he is looking less and less interested every day. The worst part about all this is that the next manager will have to deal with all these players and the same cycle will continue again.
I don't disagree on they can't do more than what SAF requested, However, it's clear when it's a close bidding they are proactive to offer the help. Everyone knows SAF fancied Hazard. Guess what. We penny picked and now those few million would cost in tens of million to find similar quality.
600mil in 4 seasons which spreads ut as 125 mil per season. In today market, theway City pays for their full backs and GK in fee, it's like 2 players. Problem is we need to both quality and quantity. The way we're spending is just to keep pace with other. We're not cutting any distance. That can't be said about ambition. When talking about ambition, I already gave you the example of Madrid who made record spending decade ago at 200mil. They go ahead of time. 200mil now is different and doesn't amount as much. Madrid took loan to finance their signings. We play safe by staying within the budget when the situation may demand more.
Great thread and I totally agree. But you shouldnt bother the majority on this board are like North Korea when it comes to the Glazers, they can never be questioned or criticized.
Fact is they destroyed this club with their takeover and everything Fergie achieved was in spite of them not because of them. They haven't invested one pound into this team, Old Trafford or the academy. But don't worry Jose will most likely leave in the summer and they will hide behind another manager.
Fact is they should of been hanged by their balls when they sold one of the greatest football players ever and replaced him with Valencia, Owen and Obertan.
That's why Barca are where they and we are a laughing joke, they are replacing Neymar with Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann.
Fact is they destroyed this club with their takeover and everything Fergie achieved was in spite of them not because of them. They haven't invested one pound into this team, Old Trafford or the academy. But don't worry Jose will most likely leave in the summer and they will hide behind another manager.
Fact is they should of been hanged by their balls when they sold one of the greatest football players ever and replaced him with Valencia, Owen and Obertan.
That's why Barca are where they and we are a laughing joke, they are replacing Neymar with Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann.
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Jose's the one who picks the signings. Do you really think we signed Pogba and Lukaku against his will? The excuses made on his behalf are ridiculous. He's the one who wants the marquee players that cost 75-90M rather than two that cost 45ish each.
With the performances on the field the buck stops with the manager.
Are you sure? Look at the sum Chelsea spend. It's not far less. And in long run, they outspending us much, and that's not taking into account their right signings Courtois, Hazard... that would be worth much more than they pay.
L'pool spending for Ox, Salah and VVD would bring them into the same region of spending as us.
I think the club needs to be reestructured, and I've been saying it for years. It doesn't make any sense to leave key football decisions in hand of different managers. In the modern game football managers come and go after 2-3 seasons and we're seeing it everywhere. If after that time a new manager is going to come and rebuild the club for his liking, then we're going to spend more time rebuilding and reshaping than trying to compete. I don't think Woodward or the Glazers are technically prepared to evaluate many things about the game.
The most competent clubs have football professionals drawing a long term strategy, and working with coherence around some football ideas and values. Even if managers come and go, the change is not dramatic for them. They try to sign the same profile of players or very similar, so there's a clear line and transition periods are very short.
With someone like SAF in charge there was no problem because he was the whole club for many time, but without him we need to create another 'constant'. This is the area or department that we are lacking, it's been always clear as water but after 5 years we're still considering to sign a DoF.
This club is a circus and has been for years, but that said, it doesn't explain the drop in our (already mediocre) performances recently. Under Mourinho we've played better stuff at times, battering some teams in terms of chances. It happened with this group of players, it happened in the current hard market, and under the same owners and directors.
We can't pretend that after one and half seasons under a manager, his influence is irrelevant and all kind of issues are affecting our performances, except him. If he can't make this team to evolve and play with confidence, or if he loses the credit in front of the players like I think it's happening, that's his fault and nobody else's.
It's not an easy context for any manager, but even with it he's doing nothing remarkable, and now it's starting to have a bad smell actually. For me it's obvious that we've signed Mourinho during his worst professional (and personal) moment of his career, and the man because of X reasons is uncapable of lifting this ship. The club needs to change and be much more professional, but it's easy to anticipate that we'll need a new manager too sooner than later, if not this summer the next one.
I believe as well that throwing tons of money on players is not going to adress the situation. Those talking about the market and financial power just haven't noticed what's this film about.
The most competent clubs have football professionals drawing a long term strategy, and working with coherence around some football ideas and values. Even if managers come and go, the change is not dramatic for them. They try to sign the same profile of players or very similar, so there's a clear line and transition periods are very short.
With someone like SAF in charge there was no problem because he was the whole club for many time, but without him we need to create another 'constant'. This is the area or department that we are lacking, it's been always clear as water but after 5 years we're still considering to sign a DoF.
This club is a circus and has been for years, but that said, it doesn't explain the drop in our (already mediocre) performances recently. Under Mourinho we've played better stuff at times, battering some teams in terms of chances. It happened with this group of players, it happened in the current hard market, and under the same owners and directors.
We can't pretend that after one and half seasons under a manager, his influence is irrelevant and all kind of issues are affecting our performances, except him. If he can't make this team to evolve and play with confidence, or if he loses the credit in front of the players like I think it's happening, that's his fault and nobody else's.
It's not an easy context for any manager, but even with it he's doing nothing remarkable, and now it's starting to have a bad smell actually. For me it's obvious that we've signed Mourinho during his worst professional (and personal) moment of his career, and the man because of X reasons is uncapable of lifting this ship. The club needs to change and be much more professional, but it's easy to anticipate that we'll need a new manager too sooner than later, if not this summer the next one.
I believe as well that throwing tons of money on players is not going to adress the situation. Those talking about the market and financial power just haven't noticed what's this film about.
The fact that we don't know if the board or the manager is the problem anymore is a bigger concern itself. A mess from top to bottom.
Ummmm
Sack him then.
Yeah, because that is what I was saying
We've spent more than Southampton, Burnley, Leicester. Why can't we beat them?
We've spent a shit load of money (not all Jose's signings) so something has gone seriously wrong somewhere for us to be this poor still.
Besides, Jose himself has just said recently that he has been backed and he doesn't like journalists changing his words to say he hasn't. I agree that we obviously still need to spend a lot more but we should be far better than we are.
We've spent a shit load of money (not all Jose's signings) so something has gone seriously wrong somewhere for us to be this poor still.
Besides, Jose himself has just said recently that he has been backed and he doesn't like journalists changing his words to say he hasn't. I agree that we obviously still need to spend a lot more but we should be far better than we are.
I agree that we look without direction but to shift the blame on the Glazers and Eddy is daft to say the least.. Mourinho has gotten what he wants most of the time the only player he didnt get was Perisic. He has bought 2xCB, 2xST, 2xCM and a AM. He seems to like big players and dislike technically gifted and flair players and it shows.
He has been bailed out not buying fullbacks as the old guard has stepped up and saved his ass.. Players like Mihkitaryan and Herrera look shadows of a players and his handling of Martial has been questionable to say the least.
Our style of play is just terrible we do not know how to pass and move and when to speed things up and our possession play is non existent. But the biggest problem with this squad is the lack of leadership. We have nothing even close to a leader on the pitch.
There are things you could blame the Glazers and Eddy for like not getting a DoF to build the club and the squad but these things that we are seeing put out on the pitch have nothing to do with them sadly it's mostly down to our manager. His bad attitude and sulky-ing seems to be spreading through the squad and watching us play is becoming a chore rather than something to enjoy..
He has been bailed out not buying fullbacks as the old guard has stepped up and saved his ass.. Players like Mihkitaryan and Herrera look shadows of a players and his handling of Martial has been questionable to say the least.
Our style of play is just terrible we do not know how to pass and move and when to speed things up and our possession play is non existent. But the biggest problem with this squad is the lack of leadership. We have nothing even close to a leader on the pitch.
There are things you could blame the Glazers and Eddy for like not getting a DoF to build the club and the squad but these things that we are seeing put out on the pitch have nothing to do with them sadly it's mostly down to our manager. His bad attitude and sulky-ing seems to be spreading through the squad and watching us play is becoming a chore rather than something to enjoy..
Whether I agree with Holt's 'points' (ie his opinions) or not, that was a blogger's article in terms of actual substance. The personal stuff about Woodward is childish and amateurish.
I meant within 3 years. City are having an exceptional season
Ever see that cnut on Sunday Supplement - he is childish and amateurish. Nothing surprising.
FWIW, article is nothing that hasn't been said on this very forum. Supporters have always suspected that Glazer's aren't interested in football.
Sorry. I am streaming with cold and have been since Christmas Eve. I was hoping the Christmas football would make me feel better. Has it hell. I don't know if it entirely the managers fault or our players are just weak minded and useless. Probably a bit of both. He has gone cowardly and the players, god bless their cotton socks, cannot take criticism and if they were here I would tell them that.Yeah, because that is what I was saying
Things could be worse. I could be a Stoke City fan.
That's Ollie Holt for you.
He is one of several journalists who, since the retirement of SAF, has felt emboldened enough to print such things. Very few had the gaul to call out SAF when the opportunities arose.
How can we have the same funds ? Are you all stupid ?
I'd help you. Give them a clip around the ear that lot.Sorry. I am streaming with cold and have been since Christmas Eve. I was hoping the Christmas football would make me feel better. Has it hell. I don't know if it entirely the managers fault or our players are just weak minded and useless. Probably a bit of both. He has gone cowardly and the players, god bless their cotton socks, cannot take criticism and if they were here I would tell them that.
Things could be worse. I could be a Stoke City fan.
Stupid article.
It looks to me like the author has been trawling forum boards and mashed a story together from negative posts.
I say this because this season I’ve seen an increase in people blaming the glazers for lack of investment etc. we didn’t hear this last season or when we were successful.
It’s like when there is a recession, the worst comes out in people and everyone else gets blamed. It’s the same here, a tough period with city doing well and attentions turn back to the glazers. It’s bs and deflects from the real issue that our coach is such a miserable bastard and not getting enough out of what he has so far
I say this because this season I’ve seen an increase in people blaming the glazers for lack of investment etc. we didn’t hear this last season or when we were successful.
It’s like when there is a recession, the worst comes out in people and everyone else gets blamed. It’s the same here, a tough period with city doing well and attentions turn back to the glazers. It’s bs and deflects from the real issue that our coach is such a miserable bastard and not getting enough out of what he has so far
I have just had the impression since SAF left that our players are too quick to feel sorry for themselves. United have always had losses, sometimes against City. Yet they just seemed to dust themselves off and get on with it. This lot seem to go into a tailspin.
There's always been a lot of games, but they let it bother them. Other teams cope. Why can't we perform after International breaks? It has been going on for ages. Is it Jose and previous managers or is it the players and people at the club telling them how badly done to they are. In the past if we were getting the rough end of the stick it would drive us on, motivate us. Now it drags us down, we are the victims, oh woe. Yes we get injuries, bad decisions, but that happens to everyone. It is more the referees are rubbish than an agenda.
That's how they work. If we fancy a player you can guarantee there is an article linking us with said player within a couple of days.
Rubbish article. We're one of the highest spenders in Europe but far from being amongst the best in Europe. Their only mistake is the managerial appointments they've made in recent years. One was just well out of his depth, the other two were had outdated tactics. They need to be really careful about who they hire next. Our clubs football side is normally run by the manager which has left us in alot of trouble. These blokes haven't been up to it.
Yes, we badly need a change of mentality from top to bottom. Some of those players really need to go. However, I'm surprised Jose is not laying down the law with them. Unfortunately, he might not be helping as he looks like he's got a bout of depression at the moment...
Get SAF to hang around the squad more with his hairdryer on full blast - that might help
But as bad as coaching and such is, the players have to take some responsibility or give up their salaries.
And thats a pretty natural thing to do. When posters don't like blaming the team or the manager its easy to blame the Glazer's.
Think both the players, for being soft and not having a brain between them, they are just doing everything by the tactic board without even one of them having any imagination to try something different and Jose for going back into his shell.Yes, we badly need a change of mentality from top to bottom. Some of those players really need to go. However, I'm surprised Jose is not laying down the law with them. Unfortunately, he might not be helping as he looks like he's got a bout of depression at the moment...
Get SAF to hang around the squad more with his hairdryer on full blast - that might help
But as bad as coaching and such is, the players have to take some responsibility or give up their salaries.
So many pathetic posts in here 
It's been a tough month but come on chaps get a grip.
It's been a tough month but come on chaps get a grip.
I feel with some that’s the case, with others they haven’t sat down to think logically and with others it’s because they’ve only got half a head and can’t think for themselves
The only team that has outspent us are City. We have invested a huge amount of money.
City have raised the bar. Thats a fact. Based on that we need to make a new vision of how to play if we wants to be competitive and have a chance to win the league. Im not debating Mourinho or not but whoever is in charge needs to accepts that as a top club we expects to dominate almost every game. Closing the shop when we are one up isn't an option. Liverpool, Tottenham and City play attracting football, like it or not. We are not even close. Pundits, media, commentators, neutral sopporters says the same. WE ARE DULL ATM. A club of our size can't have any excuses. Sooner or later our inability to entertain will cost us money. Thats a hard fact.
We are at a cross road with two different choices. Either we accept the challenge in front of us or accept the Arsenal route. That means a huge clear out of eight to nine players in two years. We only have four long term title winning quality starters. DDG, Bailly, Pogba, Martial. Lukaku, Rashford and Lingard have potential, the rest isn't good enough if we compare to our opponents. If we are fine with third places, Champion Leagues QF then we continue what we are doing. Otherwise we needs a change of tactic, more attacking/possession in order to dominate our games and some huge investments. This winter/summer we probably needs to replace Carrick, Zlatan, Fellaini , Darmian and Blind. Mhikitarian mystery can and up anywhere. On top of that Valencia, Young and Matic is one serious injury away from retirement (from highest level). Anyway next season will probably be their last as a automatic starters if we want to improve our starting line up.
The bucks stop with the owners! Not Woody. Not Mourinho. They have the ultimate power and can change any decisions in two sec. No other way around. If they don't have the vision or are acceptable with the Arsenal route then thats it. Green and Gold or whatever, the majority owners is da shit. Mourinho is a competitive character. History tells us this. But hes also on a slippery slop. Thats also a fact. Madrid and Chelsea. History don't lies. He also needs to do what Fergie did and that is to adapt the modern reality and seek for help if necessary. Standing still is moving backwards.
We are at a cross road with two different choices. Either we accept the challenge in front of us or accept the Arsenal route. That means a huge clear out of eight to nine players in two years. We only have four long term title winning quality starters. DDG, Bailly, Pogba, Martial. Lukaku, Rashford and Lingard have potential, the rest isn't good enough if we compare to our opponents. If we are fine with third places, Champion Leagues QF then we continue what we are doing. Otherwise we needs a change of tactic, more attacking/possession in order to dominate our games and some huge investments. This winter/summer we probably needs to replace Carrick, Zlatan, Fellaini , Darmian and Blind. Mhikitarian mystery can and up anywhere. On top of that Valencia, Young and Matic is one serious injury away from retirement (from highest level). Anyway next season will probably be their last as a automatic starters if we want to improve our starting line up.
The bucks stop with the owners! Not Woody. Not Mourinho. They have the ultimate power and can change any decisions in two sec. No other way around. If they don't have the vision or are acceptable with the Arsenal route then thats it. Green and Gold or whatever, the majority owners is da shit. Mourinho is a competitive character. History tells us this. But hes also on a slippery slop. Thats also a fact. Madrid and Chelsea. History don't lies. He also needs to do what Fergie did and that is to adapt the modern reality and seek for help if necessary. Standing still is moving backwards.