Only Fools and Horses R1 - Harms vs Synco

[Enigma_87]

Thanks, I really thought hard how to nullify his importance

Tough draft, essentially had to play two sheep and couldn't get any of my scrapped star players back.

Good luck going forward, your team is excellent already, despite starting out with the shittiest draft pool of all. But I fear there are fresh shenanigans waiting for you guys...

Aye, Vassel played a really big part, but have to say you managed to hide him pretty well. Unlucky to face harms too, as he always puts great teams and is able to argue his point really well.

Thanks for that Buchan compilation too, quality duel with Keegan and some nice sprayed passes from the back.

 

[Synco]

Going through the replies.

Just watched Sjor's Arsenal match compilation of Gazza. You were right, I somehow didn't remember him playing that deep. He certainly would fit in well in that midfield. Can appreciate it a bit more now.

The EURO 96 match comp vs Germany on Sjor's channel is great for comparison. It's five injury-riddled seasons after the first video, and he's still the same menace on both ends of the pitch. Box-to-box midfielder in the truest sense of the term. Would be cool if he'd play a more prominent role in future drafts.

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Unlucky to face harms too, as he always puts great teams and is able to argue his point really well.

Playing the best losing team simply means you're facing one of the strongest sides in the draft.

Thanks for that Buchan compilation too, quality duel with Keegan and some nice sprayed passes from the back.

Cheers, maybe I'll do another one of him in the future, so the picture becomes a bit clearer.

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Tbf any big tournament game from 1966 to 1970 would do. A game against Italy from 1968, for example? But make sure to turn it off before the final coin-toss*

I've just done a compilation of his game against Paul van Himst's Belgium where he didn't put a foot wrong. He usually played in 4-men defenses, but in this tournament he was more often used as a pure sweeper behind 4 players.

Looks like FIFA decided only to take all the profit from this video instead of blocking it, hopefully this doesn't change in a few hours!

* it obviously was not televised

Mightily impressive, especially if you say this was his regular level. Next best thing to Kohler?

 

[harms]

Mightily impressive, especially if you say this was his regular level. Next best thing to Kohler?

My personal attitude towards him is a bit weird. At first – after the insane amount of praise that he got in the Soviet press, I was slightly disappointed as I hoped for a Baresi-esque match-winning presence and he wasn't on that level (surprise-surprise!). I also hold an unfair grudge against him for fecking up the coin-toss against Italy in 1968, we could've easily won the tournament (but that has nothing to do with his on-the-field performance). But the more I watch him, the more I appreciate him – especially his insane consistency, I can't recall him ever having a bad game and I've watched quite a lot now. Plus, obviously, his physical attributes are simply insane – and he turns around quite quickly as well.

So, at the moment he's somewhere between the bottom of T2 and the top of T3 for me (with tiers as follow)

God – Beckenbauer
T1 Baresi*, Figueroa, Nesta, Moore etc.
T2 Cannavaro, Förster, Rio etc.
T3 Ferrara, Campbell, Chumpitaz...

 

[harms]

Speaking of tiers...

 

[Synco]

My personal attitude towards him is a bit weird. At first – after the insane amount of praise that he got in the Soviet press, I was slightly disappointed as I hoped for a Baresi-esque match-winning presence and he wasn't on that level (surprise-surprise!). I also hold an unfair grudge against him for fecking up the coin-toss against Italy in 1968, we could've easily won the tournament (but that has nothing to do with his on-the-field performance). But the more I watch him, the more I appreciate him – especially his insane consistency, I can't recall him ever having a bad game and I've watched quite a lot now. Plus, obviously, his physical attributes are simply insane – and he turns around quite quickly as well.

So, at the moment he's somewhere between the bottom of T2 and the top of T3 for me (with tiers as follow)

God – Beckenbauer
T1 Baresi*, Figueroa, Nesta, Moore etc.
T2 Cannavaro, Förster, Rio etc.
T3 Ferrara, Campbell, Chumpitaz...

What would you say the stoppers in T2 had over him?

Speaking of tiers...

Oh yeah!

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

God – Beckenbauer
T1 Baresi*, Figueroa, Nesta, Moore etc.
T2 Cannavaro, Förster, Rio etc.
T3 Ferrara, Campbell, Chumpitaz...

Caf view:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/red...all-playing-central-defenders-results.448892/

 

[harms]

What would you say the stoppers in T2 had over him?

It's not really something in particular, just a general feeling. It's always hard to assess those close calls tbf, especially with those that we don't have that much footage of. If Shesternyov was playing in Serie A in the 90's we probably would've rated him way higher. Vierchowod is a good comparison, I think, in terms of being as complete as you can be as a center back, but lacking that extra edge to truly compete for a GOAT-ish status.

Edit: looking at caf's list, I'd have him alongside Tresor, actually – I think they're pretty much equal in my eyes.

I wish there was more footage of his club career though. He was chosen Soviet footballer of the Year once, twice came 3rd and once came 2nd – not bad for a center back, and it was a very strong era for the Soviets. A bit of that could've been the difference between a clear T2 place and a purgatory. Or a bit of simple luck, really – pick the right side of a coin and you get a chance of winning the Euros as a captain, which would've certainly elevated his overall stature.

 

[Gio]

Going through the replies.


The EURO 96 match comp vs Germany on Sjor's channel is great for comparison. It's five injury-riddled seasons after the first video, and he's still the same menace on both ends of the pitch. Box-to-box midfielder in the truest sense of the term. Would be cool if he'd play a more prominent role in future drafts.

I rewatched a few of the games from Euro 96 over the summer as they were shown on ITV. Although he'd come off the back of a strong season with Rangers, I was surprised at just how good Gazza was, because, at the time, it was mostly Shearer and Seaman that received the plaudits for their goals and penalty saves. He had all the flair and positivity of before his leg break, with a touch less athleticism, but a lot more maturity. Comfortably England's best player I thought, in terms of his role as the go-to man to make them tick.

 

[Gio]

Tbf any big tournament game from 1966 to 1970 would do. A game against Italy from 1968, for example? But make sure to turn it off before the final coin-toss*

I've just done a compilation of his game against Paul van Himst's Belgium where he didn't put a foot wrong. He usually played in 4-men defenses, but in this tournament he was more often used as a pure sweeper behind 4 players.

Looks like FIFA decided only to take all the profit from this video instead of blocking it, hopefully this doesn't change in a few hours!

* it obviously was not televised

Impressive. Sometimes when defenders have that spare-man role, their performance can look deceptively better than it would be if they were operating man-to-man. But completely solid here in every respect. And very explosive over 5-10 yards, which isn't always the case with the bigger men. And Byshovets' goal was class.

But why no9? I haven't been this offended since Zidane donned the 5 shirt for Real.

 

[harms]

But why no9? I haven't been this offended since Zidane donned the 5 shirt for Real.

No idea to be honest. Usually it was a bit more logical, but both Shesternyov and Khurtsilava often appeared with weird numbers. Khurtsilava even played in a number 10 shirt from time to time (№8 in this particular one).

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Had the pace of a quick No.9

 

[Synco]

It's not really something in particular, just a general feeling. It's always hard to assess those close calls tbf, especially with those that we don't have that much footage of. If Shesternyov was playing in Serie A in the 90's we probably would've rated him way higher. Vierchowod is a good comparison, I think, in terms of being as complete as you can be as a center back, but lacking that extra edge to truly compete for a GOAT-ish status.

Edit: looking at caf's list, I'd have him alongside Tresor, actually – I think they're pretty much equal in my eyes.

I wish there was more footage of his club career though. He was chosen Soviet footballer of the Year once, twice came 3rd and once came 2nd – not bad for a center back, and it was a very strong era for the Soviets. A bit of that could've been the difference between a clear T2 place and a purgatory. Or a bit of simple luck, really – pick the right side of a coin and you get a chance of winning the Euros as a captain, which would've certainly elevated his overall stature.

Very interesting.

It also reinforces my impression that we should separate "all-time status" (what we deal with in all-time discussions, top 20 rankings, etc.) from pure peak performance level (what we imo should refer to in draft games). They're not totally independent from each other of course, but still different ways of looking at a player. What I mean is: a coin toss may well influence how Shesternyev is seen as an all-timer, but not the way he would mark Gullit on the pitch.