Our Counter Attacking Play Has Declined

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

One thing that Ole had coached well into the side was a strong counter attacking game. If teams opened up against us we had Bruno, Pogba, Rashford to slice through them on the break. Infact we have some outstanding goals on the break, the types of which will make you think twice about entering the Awfully Coached thread. It also helped Ole beat Pep multiple times (Pep averages 1.25 pts per game vs Ole).

Why has it declined this season? A fitter Man Utd from last season would have found more joy against Villarreal.(The Europa final was a tired Utd team).

 

[adexkola]

It's really easy to defend against a counter attacking team. Give them the ball.

 

[Teja]

No Rashford. Bruno to Rashford was the ball when we counter and now it's Bruno --> Greenwood instead. Not quite as effective.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It's really easy to defend against a counter attacking team. Give them the ball.

Bingo, it generally works for lesser teams against better teams. To be successful and win big trophies you tend to have to be able to do both counter attack and possession football - see United under SAF and Real Madrid during 2011-2016.

But the OP is probably correct in saying that our counter attack game seems to not be as strong as it was a little while back. On this I'd say that Rashford's absence and Martial's dissolution play a part. You're more likely to counter better with Rashford-Martial-Greenwood with Bruno and Pogba bursting forward from deep than a front three of Pogba-Ronaldo-Greenwood where only one player has pace.

 

[WR10]

It's Mason that's trying the line-breaking run that Rashford had perfected. The kid doesn't quite have the timing sorted yet.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

We miss the pace, directness, and one on one ability of both Rashford and a better Martial, for one. We also haven't faced sides who would regularly give us such room when we turn possession.

Watch people bring Ronaldo's age into this, though.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Partly a player issue with no Rashford and Martial and partly an evolutionary step where most teams will play much more careful against us leaving far fewer spaces. We are also badly out of form at the moment.

 

[justsomebloke]

One thing that Ole had coached well into the side was a strong counter attacking game. If teams opened up against us we had Bruno, Pogba, Rashford to slice through them on the break. Infact we have some outstanding goals on the break, the types of which will make you think twice about entering the Awfully Coached thread. It also helped Ole beat Pep multiple times (Pep averages 1.25 pts per game vs Ole).

Why has it declined this season? A fitter Man Utd from last season would have found more joy against Villarreal.(The Europa final was a tired Utd team).

It's not working well at the moment. The rhytm, timing and accuracy doesn't seem to be there. But too early I think to make a general issue of it.

 

[justsomebloke]

It's really easy to defend against a counter attacking team. Give them the ball.

we're not a counterattacking team in terms of style. But like all teams we do counterattacks. But not as well currently as we're used to. Different issue.

 

[roonster09]

Few others have already mentioned it, it's because of Rashford. He is very quick and makes the run from wide left, which makes it easier to pick for Bruno and Pogba.

 

[therealtboy]

Everything has declined, only thing about this team that is better now is De Gea, he's back to his form of 5 seasons ago. I'm surprised Ole keeps playing the same formation, hoping for a change. He needs to switch it up and tell Bruno to move into midfield more and make it a 3. Break from deeper like Scholes or Lampard, not this second striker thing he's doing.

 

[UnitedFire]

One thing that Ole had coached well into the side was a strong counter attacking game. If teams opened up against us we had Bruno, Pogba, Rashford to slice through them on the break. Infact we have some outstanding goals on the break, the types of which will make you think twice about entering the Awfully Coached thread. It also helped Ole beat Pep multiple times (Pep averages 1.25 pts per game vs Ole).

Why has it declined this season? A fitter Man Utd from last season would have found more joy against Villarreal.(The Europa final was a tired Utd team).

Dan James.........

Was not really the answer as couldn't cross much at all and very rarely got into position to score....so yeah Rashford.

It's obvious Ole hasn't worked out that he now has a load more players who are supremely talented and doesn't need to counter any more, as not only is it unnecessary, but also less effective.

 

[Godfather]

We miss the pace, directness, and one on one ability of both Rashford and a better Martial, for one. We also haven't faced sides who would regularly give us such room when we turn possession.

Watch people bring Ronaldo's age into this, though.

This

 

[justsomebloke]

We miss the pace, directness, and one on one ability of both Rashford and a better Martial, for one. We also haven't faced sides who would regularly give us such room when we turn possession.

Watch people bring Ronaldo's age into this, though.

It looks to me much more like we are being too direct and fast, but rather lacking in timing, structure and precision. Both against Villa and Villarreal there was a plethora of balls knocked against deep runs, or immediately forward after regaining the ball, but they didn't connect.

Did you notice Matic gesticulating "calm down!" after coming on? He was right. Our issue right now is timing, structure, rhytm, decisions.

 

[GueRed]

It'll improve when Rashford returns.

He's a machine on the break

 

[justsomebloke]

Dan James.........

Was not really the answer as couldn't cross much at all and very rarely got into position to score....so yeah Rashford.

It's obvious Ole hasn't worked out that he now has a load more players who are supremely talented and doesn't need to counter any more, as not only is it unnecessary, but also less effective.

Not just for this post, but this thread is badly in need of defining what it is that is being discussed, because that's all over the place.

Counterattack as a style of play: Defending low, soaking up pressure and relying fundamentally and primarily on counterattacks as the chief way to get your goals. We've played that way in the past, but that's a while ago now.

or:

Counterattack in the sense of an ability and willingness to attack effectively on the break: Every team does this to some extent regardless of style. It's just a basic element of the game. It's been something we've been good at also as our style has evolved and changed, but currently - meaning in the last few games - we're not doing it well.

To discuss one is not to discuss the other.

 

[cyberman]

I said it last season but our counter attacks completely went through Rashford and how he played off of Shaw.
When Marcus comes back you will see us destroy teams on the break again

 

[Josep Dowling]

I think we are missing Rashford on this. Hopefully with him and Sancho on the wings we will start to see us get better.

 

[wolvored]

We have declined, but as others have said, personnel change also and a change by some of the teams in the way they play against us, so the gaps aint there. Thats why we are looking worse as our coaching staff cant or wont adapt our style as well. I cant wait to see what happens when Rashford is back. I do believe he will play from the right to allow Pogba (LW) Bruno and McFred all in the side. This will also be another detrimental step.

 

[GueRed]

I think we are missing Rashford on this. Hopefully with him and Sancho on the wings we will start to see us get better.

With plenty of space to attack on the counter Rashford can be devastating.

 

[Champ]

Rashford and Sancho together will add to our counter attacking instinct.

However we are having more possession of the ball and controlling the tempo of games a lot more than previous. This means we have a average position per player higher up the pitch than what we had last season.

This generally makes counter attacking opportunities a lot less frequent and so gives the impression that we don't have the 'knack' to do it anymore.

Also in addition, we have very low tackling rates which mean we are less likely to win the ball leading to a quick counter.

 

[Plant0x84]

One mans ‘our counter attack has declined’ is another mans ‘our play has developed’.
We played counter attack because that was what suited the players available at the time, but Ole always said he would like to improve the squad and move away from having to rely on the counter. He is now doing that.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Not just for this post, but this thread is badly in need of defining what it is that is being discussed, because that's all over the place.

Counterattack as a style of play: Defending low, soaking up pressure and relying fundamentally and primarily on counterattacks as the chief way to get your goals. We've played that way in the past, but that's a while ago now.

or:

Counterattack in the sense of an ability and willingness to attack effectively on the break: Every team does this to some extent regardless of style. It's just a basic element of the game. It's been something we've been good at also as our style has evolved and changed, but currently - meaning in the last few games - we're not doing it well.

To discuss one is not to discuss the other.

The second.

We are not counter attacking effectively which we used to.

 

[Kramer]

As people have said before me, simple answer is Rashford.

People give him so much stick (and sure his decision making can be suspect at times), but a fit and firing Rashford gives a completely other dimension to this team.

His pace is one of the main reasons our counter-attacks are so potent.

And the quality of the runs he makes is unbelievable. Gives defenders nightmares and opens up space for other attackers.

Not to mention he is probably our best attacker at actually dribbling past and beating a man.

Really looking forward to his return to the team. Cannot wait.

 

[Hammondo]

Probably because we tried it so much in our recent games it becomes so easy to defend against. We need less focus on it, not more.

 

[Idxomer]

I think it's mainly due to bad execution in the final third, we still get opportunities to counterattack but we usually fail to take full advantage of them.

We saw it against Villa numerous times with Greenwood. Against Villarreal, there were two instances when Ronaldo failed to find Sancho and Cavani and another where Pogba's pass to Sancho was too long.

 

[largelyworried]

One mans ‘our counter attack has declined’ is another mans ‘our play has developed’.
We played counter attack because that was what suited the players available at the time, but Ole always said he would like to improve the squad and move away from having to rely on the counter. He is now doing that.

While we may be trying to develop our play on the front foot, we're a long way from achieving that. So it feels like the team is neither fish nor fowl right now. The counters aren't as rapier sharp as they were, but we don't dominate games either.

 

[Lentwood]

Simply because we have proven time and time again that if teams do give us space in behind, we are absolutely lethal. Even the likes of PSG and City have found it hard to play against us.

Our problem has always been what we do when we have most of the ball

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Rashford is one of if not the most important player in our counter attacks, it’s no surprise it’s suffered a bit with him out the team. We will see a big improvement once he returns.

 

[Infra-red]

Leeds gave us quite a lot of space in that regard and we were pretty deadly. In part it will be opposition managers wising up to our primary tactic and denying us the space in behind. Personnel has an impact too of course and as many have said, we are missing Rashford. I'm looking forward to his return and I'm hoping that he might form a pretty tasty front three with Ronaldo and Sancho.

 

[Rood]

It's not declined - Greenwood was through 3 times Vs Villa with the typical fast transition balls from Bruno/Pogba but he didn't make the most of it

Plus we have mostly played teams who sit in and defend this season - big games coming up where the counter will be vital

 

[Born2Lose]

It's hard to play counter attacking football when every other department apart from the attack does as little as possible to get the ball forward quickly.

 

[DJ_21]

We had a lot of chances on the counter against villa when the game opened up and we wasted them all. I think Greenwood is being a bit to greedy, when he has chances to square it in the box he doesn’t and he just goes for the goal. Obviously this is because he’s young and hungry to score as many as he can but he’ll get a lot of credit for assisting aswell. Sancho would be quality on counter attacks but he’s struggling at the minute as teams are sitting deep and it’s nothing like the bundesliga where every game is open. Hopefully he starts showing what he’s made of.

 

[Dante]

No Rashford, no James and Martial has lost all his pace.

Greenwood is quick-ish. But not enough to really frighten defenders.

 

[Highfather_24]

I dont think this version of Ronaldo is a great counter attacking player, our attack seems a bit disjointed in counters after he arrived, I've noticed that. Cavani is better at that. Maybe it will get better with time. Rashford is a big factor as well.

 

[Plant0x84]

While we may be trying to develop our play on the front foot, we're a long way from achieving that. So it feels like the team is neither fish nor fowl right now. The counters aren't as rapier sharp as they were, but we don't dominate games either.

I think Rashford is a large part of it tbh. Pogba isn’t the same player wide left that Marcus is, he doesn’t have the speed, or the inclination to run. Paul looks for the pass rather than carrying the ball. I think if we get Sancho up to PL speed, and Marcus back you’ll see the kind of fast breakaway goals you are craving!

Username checks out btw - enjoy the ride, we’re going to have have one hell of a season.

 

[Mcking]

Rashford was the Counter attacking football.

 

[Maticmaker]

Many criticise Ole for not have a style of play, but he has, its called leave it up to the top players to sort it out/rely on moments of brilliance from these players. Or plan A if you prefer, the trouble is there is no plan B or at least one we can transition to smoothly on the pitch when things are not happening or we suffer a major reverse, like going down to ten men.

I'm sure if you asked Ole and Co. they would say something like ..."we have things in hand, we think about that, we encourage..."etc. the trouble is it does not seem obvious to the onlooker, when we look to be struggling, its because we are, it is not a feint to lull the opposition into a false sense of security.
Nothing seems so forlorn as when you see United players (singularly) haring around trying to 'press' the opposition from midfield starting positions, we only seem to play up against their back line when we have possession further back and are awaiting the ball coming forward. That lack of focus allows their defenders to make choices as to how they will set themselves to counter our impending attack.

Our biggest problem and we all know it is we have WC players all over now, but we still do not have a true WC DM. Ole's style of leave it to the top players will never truly work until we do have a WC DM... and a plan B!

 

[Mingus]

Just having Rashford's name on the teamsheet will stop most opposition coaches playing a high line, which will allow us better control.
Alternatively, if a team insists on playing a high line they'll be picked off.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Rashford was the Counter attacking football.

Not true. Do you not recall that Matic -Greenwood- Bruno counterattack vs Brighton? Or the Cavani goal vs Everton or Bruno's vs Leeds.