Bojan11
Full Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2010
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- 33,132
To those defending it and saying it’s normal. Nah not during a pandemic. I’d give the vultures credit as they haven’t sacked anybody yet.
So what you’re saying is turning the caf green and gold won’t work ?They own the club they are going to take money out of it . All the moaning and stupid protests is not going to change that . Until they ever decide to sell which they have never shown any sign of doing they can do what they want
To those defending it and saying it’s normal. Nah not during a pandemic. I’d give the vultures credit as they haven’t sacked anybody yet.
To those defending it and saying it’s normal. Nah not during a pandemic. I’d give the vultures credit as they haven’t sacked anybody yet.
What pisses me off the most is that they pay out £23m dividends to themselves while there is an pandemic and the club is in debt. Fecking greedy parasites!
Use those £23m on paying debt ffs!
So you want owners who are net positive in terms of investments. You expect them to put money into the club instead of taking money out of the club. There are only two situations where owners would do that:
There are severe issues with both models and I personally won't trade our current model with either of those. Everyone knows what happens when you are a plaything for the uber-rich so I won't get into that.
- When they don't need the money but crave the profile and the legitimacy that comes with owning a club of our stature
- When it is completely fan owned or run as a completely non-profit enterprise
The second model isn't the utopia we all believe it to be because without corporate governance which comes with the pressure to show profits every year, decision making is convoluted and slow. More often than not, it also descends into politicking and civil wars. Not to mention, fans typically don't have the financial acumen to successfully run a behemoth that we are in terms of revenues.
All of this isn't to say that Glazers are the best owners in the world. They are not and I would most definitely prefer others over them. All I am saying is that you asking for the "utopia" can have other unintended consequences which can be far more detrimental than the status quo.
The debt payments are minuscule compared to the revenue we make. Under FFP we were liable to be able to spend more money than any other club in the world. And as per the statement we have done that. I understand the stadium complaints, I too would like to see more investment in the stadium, but it will take hundreds of millions and you can’t criticise our owners for not being a nation state or oligarchs favourite toy.
Nation state clubs in France and here in England (not difficult to see who) have compromised UEFA and those FFP rules are no longer being enforced properly. Our focus needs to be on getting a rule book that is enforced for FFP, otherwise there is no chance of getting back to the top when you can just be out bid for fun.
A quick google search says the dividend is payed out to shareholders when the company makes a profit and the surplus is reinvested back into the company.Some of you need to do some reading on what a dividend is and how it works before saying they're 'taking' £23m. To an extent they are but they're not taking it out of the cash register or crippling the club for it like some of you seem to be suggesting, they're actually owed dividends.
And by the way, I'm not endorsing what they're doing but this is how businesses are run.
A quick google search says the dividend is payed out to shareholders when the company makes a profit and the surplus is reinvested back into the company.
Pretty sure we are not making a profit if we’re £474m in debt.
That's your problem right there my friend.A quick google search says the dividend is payed out to shareholders when the company makes a profit and the surplus is reinvested back into the company.
Pretty sure we are not making a profit if we’re £474m in debt.
Do you know what our yearly profit was this year by any chance give me an idea of what’s going on?Most large companies have some sort of manageable debt. Saves on taxes etc.
Yearly results can have profits even though there exists a longterm debt.
We made a loss this year (like everyone due to the pandemic) of $29m. Last year we made a profit of $24m.Do you know what our yearly profit was this year by any chance give me an idea of what’s going on?
Some of you need to do some reading on what a dividend is and how it works before saying they're 'taking' £23m. To an extent they are but they're not taking it out of the cash register or crippling the club for it like some of you seem to be suggesting, they're actually owed dividends.
And by the way, I'm not endorsing what they're doing but this is how businesses are run.
Do you know what our yearly profit was this year by any chance give me an idea of what’s going on?
So they basically put us in more debt this year so. Maybe shouldn’t have taken out a dividend this year and waited until next year.We made a loss this year (like everyone due to the pandemic) of $29m. Last year we made a profit of $24m.
Thanks I understand now, the Glazers get paid no matter what. Wouldn’t it be great to be them never really put anything in just played about with numbers and are able to make a profit for themselves every year, incredible really.According to the article above we made a loss of £23.2m in the latest financial year, so pretty much the dividend cost on top of everything. But We're also getting delayed payments due to the pandemic, where at least an additional £30m from tv revenue was received after the financial year ended June 30th that would normally belong to the last financial year.
Results aren't black and white, and it was the board's decision to go ahead with what has been a yearly dividend payment now. You can have a good year even if you show a loss for the results, this due to investments or other things that make it likely that future years will be profitable again.
Now, am I defending dividends? No. Our club is the only PL club listed on a stock exchange since that was more profitable for the glazers. And we are the only club in the PL that has had more money taken out of the club than what the owners have put in.
I was just trying to explain a bit about how company results, dividends etc works.
In an ideal world we would be owned by the fans or at least some rich person who made us debt free and didn't take out any money (nor needed to invest either really, just let us run on everything we generate ourselves).
Likelihood of that happening though?
If you don't understand corporate finance structures I can see how you might make this mistake. If this were the case then every single company in the FTSE would not be making profit as they all hold material levels of debt. In most cases the debt facilitates generation of even higher levels of profit than would otherwise be possible.A quick google search says the dividend is payed out to shareholders when the company makes a profit and the surplus is reinvested back into the company.
Pretty sure we are not making a profit if we’re £474m in debt.
No I don’t really understand it, but the guys give me a quick business lesson there to give me the jist of it..If you don't understand corporate finance structures I can see how you might make this mistake. If this were the case then every single company in the FTSE would not be making profit as they all hold material levels of debt. In most cases the debt facilitates generation of even higher levels of profit than would otherwise be possible.
Good - keep saying it.So what you’re saying is turning the caf green and gold won’t work ?
ThisIs anyone surprised ?
I’m surprised they only took 23mill to be honest
Yes, you’re obviously not an accountant. So perhaps stop trying to bitch about finances when you clearly haven’t a clue how any of it works.I am a football fan,not an accountant.I read this on the norwegian Manchester United supporter club about numbers.
The glazers has given the club massive debt and they use the money wich fans pay on interest and taking out dividends.That is all what i care about.
Glazers are parasites. Pass it on.
You know dividends is paid after tax right? Dividends isn’t a deductible expense. The club would still be paying tax on that £10m profit.And lastly, the amount of tax United pay on any profit made is criminal. As a business owner of a football club, if I'm due dividends of £23m and the club is going to make, let's say, £10m in profit this season, you can absolutely bet I'm taking those divs (as long as it doesn't cripple the club in anyway) because the tax man can get fecked if he thinks he's getting £5m for nothing.
I'd rather have any other owner than these cash grabbing fecks. Feels like we're being run by the trump family.
Yes, you’re obviously not an accountant. So perhaps stop trying to bitch about finances when you clearly haven’t a clue how any of it works.
You have to read their accounts to get a proper idea of what's going on - the net debt has gone up because 1) sponsorship payments have been deferred (looks temporary), 2) we've spent more on transfers (which we should be happy about) and 3) we've not had season tickets/prepaid tickets cash in yet (covid).
Debt in the financial world is not an issue if you have the cash flow/cash on hand to pay interest and debt as it falls due, banks are still willing to end and you're profitable enough long term. It's not quite a disaster, and we still spent more on transfers than all the non-oil clubs.
I could easily be wrong here, but a cash loss of £256m suggests we have around £70m remaining in cash so not if Dortmund were demanding a huge amount up front.
I wasn't talking about the % increase of debt, but don't let that ruin you trying to be a smart arse.
First of all, dividend was approved in February.still, looks weird shareholders approve dividend distribution in such circumstances. I’m sure in April they knew the club will end up in losses. In situations like this, shareholders think of ways to inject capital not withdraw cash!!!!
We were debt free before the Glazers took over. Not 1 pound of that loan was ever invested in the club.