Calamity Jones at it again..
Our Defence - Has it actually been fixed?
- Thread starter Untd55
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120m, 200m combined defence and you still need to fix them from basic schoolboy error.
When your collective individual mistakes made your team only has 3 clean sheets after half a season, chances sre they're not actually that good. Player like rio, maldini, stam made one or two howler a season while maguire made one every 2 games.
ole at the wheel
I've been very open in the past on this thread about playing players in their natural position. I'm going to go against that here and suggest something I've been saying to mates for a while now. I'd like to see AWB tried at centre half,. at least until we get a new genuine one. I don't hate Lindeloff, I just don't think he and Maguire compliment each other. AWB is a great defender, but attacking wise esp against top teams isn't great. He's a decent height for that role, but it's his recovery tackling that I think would benefit him there the most. With Lindelof and even Maguire, once you beat them, turn them you're gone. At least AWB has that ability to still recover the ball once a player has seemingly beat him. Maybe a knee jerk reaction on my behalf, we played the 2nd best team with no proper defensive midfield cover, but I've honestly been thinking this for a while now
Not sure whether it's fixed but we have done well in last 10 games. 7 clean sheets in last 10.
Wolves 0-0 ManUtd
ManUtd 1-3 ManCity
ManUtd 4-0 Norwich
ManUtd 1-0 Wolves
Liverpool 2-0 ManUtd
ManUtd 0-2 Burnley
Tranmere 0-6 ManUtd
ManCity 0-1 ManUtd
ManUtd 0-0 Wolves
Chelsea 0-2 ManUtd
We played Wolves 3 times, City 2 times, Chelsea, Liverpool in this run. Not a bad one.
Wolves 0-0 ManUtd
ManUtd 1-3 ManCity
ManUtd 4-0 Norwich
ManUtd 1-0 Wolves
Liverpool 2-0 ManUtd
ManUtd 0-2 Burnley
Tranmere 0-6 ManUtd
ManCity 0-1 ManUtd
ManUtd 0-0 Wolves
Chelsea 0-2 ManUtd
We played Wolves 3 times, City 2 times, Chelsea, Liverpool in this run. Not a bad one.
That Burnley result is actually disgusting.
Glad it looks like we're improving in defence. But is that because for a lot of games we went with 5 at the back?
Glad it looks like we're improving in defence. But is that because for a lot of games we went with 5 at the back?
That's fecking excellent.
AWB is still very new to defending. Full back suits him because he can focus on doing the same thing each time ie force the player wide and tackle him. I think he will go from strength to strength as a fill back. He's had two nice assists recently too. I can see that side of his game improving.
CB would be very challenging for him imo. So much more to figure out. So many more decisions to make.
This comment should be stickied at the top of this forum for a while so everyone can stop moaning about our defense. It's been genuinely excellent for some time now. The Burnley result is such a clown outlier, what a miracle we didn't win that game. It's like taking your Champion dog to a show, and the universe conspires to douse good doggo in tar, feathers and sparkly glitter 10 seconds before its your turn to parade.
I feel like Kag's post is still the most relevant. There was nothing particularly wrong with the defence that needed urgent fixing - Mourinho throwing his toys out if the pram created an issue that was mostly fixed by getting rid of him. And looking at these results, it's clear where the real problems continue to be.
I agree with that. Attack has been our biggest problem since SAF retired, how we haven't addressed RW issue is beyond me. We have signed so many players but still there is such a big gap on right wing.
The defence may or may not be fixed, but I noticed with the Premier games on show here (Roonster 09 post) we scored 9 in 9. That included a 4-0. Thats shockingly bad.
We won't fix our defense until we bring in a proper CDM that will shield the back four properly. Opposition cut through our midfield like a knife through butter constantly. Matic is slow and not agile enough, and Fred for all his fight is not a CDM. Someone like Partey would help solving this problem.
If I look at what we have done since Ole is on the wheel, I should say, Maguire had rather decent performance maybe a bit overpriced but it is not on Ole, about AWB, he is good in several aspects but can nail it getting better in different ways, he has to work on how he does crossing or playing without ball. Other players including Shaw and Lindelof, I rate them as an average kind of players. Shaw is very injury prone and it is indeed a problem. A potential gem we have in our hands is William, carbon can get coil or gem, it depends first of all on him then on coaching team how to step him up. I give a credit to coaching team in general for giving him some chances in the first team, first thing you should have carbon to be a gem one day and he has shown he has the substance of being a great player.
All in all, we are in upper intermediate level in our defence line but our tactical strategy for making balance between the midfields and defence line is a bit raw. Well, we do not have instruments in our hands to bring this balance for us. I see this as a crucial duty for coaching team, I believe they should first complete initially invested area such as our defence line then going to other lines. I see progress in our defence line. However, what we need now is consistency which it would not come without dynamic between all involved lines.
All in all, we are in upper intermediate level in our defence line but our tactical strategy for making balance between the midfields and defence line is a bit raw. Well, we do not have instruments in our hands to bring this balance for us. I see this as a crucial duty for coaching team, I believe they should first complete initially invested area such as our defence line then going to other lines. I see progress in our defence line. However, what we need now is consistency which it would not come without dynamic between all involved lines.
Yep. We’ve got the joint fourth best defensive record in the league this season, with 29 goals conceded. Better than Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs. We’ve conceded the same amount of goals as City, yet have 13 fewer points and 27 less goals.
We’ve scored 38 goals this season, which is the sixth best total. We’re only a few ahead of teams like Wolves, Everton and Aston Villa.
Until we can sort out the attacking issues, which will involve a combination of buying more creativity in midfield and another proper goalscorer, the defence will never receive any credit it deserves.
Not only have we kept clean sheets, but on average we've only conceded 3.2 shots on goal during the course of this run, which is a far better indicator of the defence's capabilities.
Despite the good Bailly game no it hasn't. We still let in two last game and we're very lucky to get a clean sheet. Dave is still a liability when teams cross in his own 5 yard box. But we have improved
As long as the clowns who coach zonal marking continue with it, then no. Absolutely.
If we can get whoever partners Maguire to consistently step up I’m happy with this defence going forward. There’s question marks around both our fullbacks but when fit they are as solid as anyone in the league bar pool
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I realise this is possibly artificially inflated by EL games against poor opposition but still, worth noting.
If we could fix our defending on set pieces we'd be looking really good to be fair. Still need a quality DM though personally.
Still not sure what Lindelof brings. In the air he is useless.
Don't know what it is, even though we've kept a lot of clean sheets, we look like we're about ready to concede a goal anytime there is possession in and around our box, I genuinely don't get that "safe" feeling whenever we are being attacked, and there have been multiple times where we are trying to play it out from the back that we've crumbled under pressing, this is on top of the set pieces where it feels like we were could genuinely concede on every one. I don't know what the answer is personally, another central defender besides Maguire? It all feels like a bit of a mess? I don't know its hard to explain, even though we've definitely improved there it just feels unsafe... I don't know
Only Liverpool and Leicester have conceded less than us from open play. Set piece defending is the major difference, we are among the worst with 10 goals conceded.
A quality DM is the biggest thing we need to add imo.
Yes. Our defense is the best it's been in a number of years. We are no longer reliant on the aging Valencia and Young.
Domestically we're probably near the bottom though, I'd like to see what a Baily & Maguire partnership looks like over a few games. Lindelöf gets outmuscled far too often or just mistimes his jump meaning midgets like Schlupp end up winning the ball so easily.
Certainly looks like the defence has been tightened up. And if we can get Tuanzebe (and Mengi) into the first team we could be even stronger. Not sure Lindelof's the answer long-term.
Joint 4th with Man City in terms of Goals Conceded, only Liverpool, Sheffield Utd & Leicester ahead.
League Clean Sheets we have 7, Puts us joint 7th with a host of teams. not great but not one of the worst
both are big improvements over last season
No idea how as we look like an unorganised mess so often
The defense is better when Matic is playing in front. Fred, McTominay, Pereira, Pogba don’t offer the same shield effect.
Think its mostly down to A) our stubborness of playing out from behind where we are too slow/nervous and B) set-piece defending
Think at least A) will get better with McT, as he is quicker and more direct than Matic.
I hear ya. I'm the same. The set pieces in particular is very alarming.
I think it's De Gea. He has been pretty shaky this year. That tends to transmit itself to the defence.
It's also Lindelof. Generally, when we give up a bad chance or a goal, he's involved somehow.
Ignoring our vulnerability from set-pieces it's definitely getting better, quite impressive at times, but De Gea, Lindelof and Shaw need replacing, and soon if we are to compete(regularly) for the big trophies, whether that's from within the squad, or outside only time will tell.
And that's not something we'll solve with throwing money at it: that is, fundamentally, a coaching issue.
Yeah, we defect with zonal marking where players like Fred will end up marking tallest players or opponent CBs. In our whole team, only Maguire is good at winning headers. Lindelof is weak, Shaw is defect, AWB is poor. Fred, Rashford, Martial, James are not good. Part of the problem too.
Talk about misleading stats...
First off it's not percent-based but nominal. The EPL has played 2 more games than other leagues and we have 2 domestic cup competitions, therefore more matches to get clean sheets from.
On top of it United are playing in the Europa, not Champs League, like the other teams in positions 1-5. The difficulty is quite different.
On the question being asked, I think we're better than we used to be, but still need a partner for Maguire long term. Lindelof is decent, but can very easily be improved on. He's got many qualities but he's too timid and easily outmuscled for this league.
Shaw gets a lot of stick but he has been immense in the last few games defensively. Both CB and LB.
Set piece horror shows aside its getting better. But conceding more more than ten league goals from corners undermines everything. Its a disastrous part of our game and unforgiveable at a top club
You make a good point about De Gea actually, i love the guy and he is still capable of making some unbelievable saves, I think it's become more pronounced over the last couple of seasons but his aerial ability is extremely poor, he just looks shaky all the time and yeah that transmits to the defense.
I also love Lindelof and I think there is a defender there somewhere, but he's a backup at best, I think it's more his inconsistency if anything, one match he will look great and the next he's back to being really shaky, he's probably the best defender we have in terms of passing (generally) and playing against the press but he's weak in the air, often slow and just so prone to mistakes.
I think we definitely need a solid, quick, defender to play alongside Maguire and i'd be more inclined to give Henderson a chance and see how well he does, because you could make the argument he's doing better than De Gea, he certainly has a vastly superior aerial presence and a command of the box...
Its largely this I feel, and that is somewhat understandable. We definitely have a 10 minute spell in a lot of fixtures where the team just seems to lose all composure. Its really odd and I have no idea why it happens, but I'm sure if we are noticing it then the mgmt staff are aware of it too. That being said we clearly have a vastly improved defence than in recent seasons, to the point where we shouldn't be seriously looking at any signings there this summer.