Our Progress

[Sleigh]

You’ve got a lot of big name players.

I think for you to progress further though, the balance of your squad needs addressing and tactically you need to adapt and become a pressing team.

The likes of Maguire, Bruno and Ronaldo, whilst brilliant individuals (semi good in Maguire case), they don’t allow you to play a style and get on the front foot against top teams. Unfortunately you need a solid DM as well.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Harsh but fair.

As Jonathan Wilson said, we’re stuck in a fecked up situation where the quality of the individual players is almost too good to get Ole sacked, no matter how poor his abilities as a manager.

Yeah, this is something I've been saying for a while. We're in limbo, basically.

It's not disastrous enough (ok, it's approaching it now) where you can truly justify a sacking, but it's also nowhere near good enough to where you can say I have confidence that we're on to something here. We get in the top four, get second last season (ok, a few caveats to it, but still), a few semi-finals which we obviously got knocked out of, but you're still like "ok...not terrible, i guess"

It's just a neverending cycle.

 

[Loony BoB]

Worst overall last season than Mourinho's full last, worse start, worse squad harmony with all the rumors surfacing about discontent in the squad, worse defense and with worse morale after being totally humiliated at home.against Liverpool.

You said in the post I was responding to: "worse offensive and defensive record, worse goal difference, less points"
After 9 games in Mourinho's last season:
Offensive record: Mourinho goals scored 15, Ole goals scored 16.
Defensive record: Mourinho goals against 16, Ole goals against 15
Goal difference: Mourinho goal difference -1, Ole goal difference +1
Points: Mourinho 14 points, Ole 14 points
Position: Mourinho 10th, Ole 7th.
Hell, let's bring future games into account: The above doesn't even take into account the 1-3 losses we made against City and Liverpool in Mourinho's 12th and 17th games in charge that season. Admittedly it does include a 0-3 loss to Tottenham, though!

I'm really not sure where you're pulling all your information from, but all of these points you're making aren't backed up at all. Mourinho in his final season was in every way either equal or worse than Ole is now. Don't even get me started in squad morale, Mourinho was the worst man-manager we ever had, constantly blaming his squad for everything that went wrong, never taking responsibility. The guy was awful to our players and the club.

I'm not here to defend Ole so much as I am here to stop people brainwashing themselves and others into believing things that are literally untrue.

 

[SAFMUTD]

You said in the post I was responding to: "worse offensive and defensive record, worse goal difference, less points"
After 9 games in Mourinho's last season:
Offensive record: Mourinho goals scored 15, Ole goals scored 16.
Defensive record: Mourinho goals against 16, Ole goals against 15
Goal difference: Mourinho goal difference -1, Ole goal difference +1
Points: Mourinho 14 points, Ole 14 points
Position: Mourinho 10th, Ole 7th.
Hell, let's bring future games into account: The above doesn't even take into account the 1-3 losses we made against City and Liverpool in Mourinho's 12th and 17th games in charge that season. Admittedly it does include a 0-3 loss to Tottenham, though!

I'm really not sure where you're pulling all your information from, but all of these points you're making aren't backed up at all. Mourinho in his final season was in every way either equal or worse than Ole is now. Don't even get me started in squad morale, Mourinho was the worst man-manager we ever had, constantly blaming his squad for everything that went wrong, never taking responsibility. The guy was awful to our players and the club.

I'm not here to defend Ole so much as I am here to stop people brainwashing themselves and others into believing things that are literally untrue.

Well if anything he's leaving the squad in a really similar position then. Not a "much better state". So 3 years wasted on another manager failure.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The other thing to think about when talking about how Ole’s done a good “rebuild” is what the next manager will make of his squad. It might look good to some managers, not to others. What if the next manager likes to have a big, strong target man up front? Or if he likes wing backs, will he be happy with AWB’s offensive threat? Maybe he think a specialist DM is critical? If he prefers to play without a number 10 does that mean we have to sell our most productive attacking player? (Bruno)

We could end up needing to sign at least four or five top class players before the next manager is happy. As well as shifting on the next load of “dead wood”. How long does that take? Two or three summers? Not really consistent with a completed rebuild, is it?

 

[Stacks]

Yeah no signing is perfect but even the two you mentioned are for the most part very solid, overpriced, but solid. A new coach could work wonders with the squad we have, add a top DM into the mix and the players we have in midfield also become far better options than they are currently.

Which is why I would prefer a coach like Ten Haag who will work with what he has and put his stamp on the squad and our approach/tactics, where Ole has sadly fallen short. My worry with somebody like Conte is that he may rip up a lot of the squad and look to get other players in, which is of course what a lot of managers do and I'm not knocking him as a manager, but I don't think that is the best fit for United right now.

We need somebody to tap into what we've built and get the best out of them whilst firmly stamping a clear style of play on us, so every player to a man knows exactly how we play and what's expected.

100%. I don't want to see this squad ripped up. Just coached please

 

[SirReginald]

The other thing to think about when talking about how Ole’s done a good “rebuild” is what the next manager will make of his squad. It might look good to some managers, not to others. What if the next manager likes to have a big, strong target man up front? Or if he likes wing backs, will he be happy with AWB’s offensive threat? Maybe he think a specialist DM is critical? If he prefers to play without a number 10 does that mean we have to sell our most productive attacking player? (Bruno)

We could end up needing to sign at least four or five top class players before the next manager is happy. As well as shifting on the next load of “dead wood”. How long does that take? Two or three summers? Not really consistent with a completed rebuild, is it?

Said it a few days ago and I’ll say it again, besides McFred, AWB is the most in danger of losing his spot in the team if/when Ole is fired. Simply put, he is not good enough.

 

[KingCavani]

You said in the post I was responding to: "worse offensive and defensive record, worse goal difference, less points"
After 9 games in Mourinho's last season:
Offensive record: Mourinho goals scored 15, Ole goals scored 16.
Defensive record: Mourinho goals against 16, Ole goals against 15
Goal difference: Mourinho goal difference -1, Ole goal difference +1
Points: Mourinho 14 points, Ole 14 points
Position: Mourinho 10th, Ole 7th.
Hell, let's bring future games into account: The above doesn't even take into account the 1-3 losses we made against City and Liverpool in Mourinho's 12th and 17th games in charge that season. Admittedly it does include a 0-3 loss to Tottenham, though!

I'm really not sure where you're pulling all your information from, but all of these points you're making aren't backed up at all. Mourinho in his final season was in every way either equal or worse than Ole is now. Don't even get me started in squad morale, Mourinho was the worst man-manager we ever had, constantly blaming his squad for everything that went wrong, never taking responsibility. The guy was awful to our players and the club.

I'm not here to defend Ole so much as I am here to stop people brainwashing themselves and others into believing things that are literally untrue.

Ole has far far better individual quality, which has carried him to some extremely lucky results.

The situation isn’t as bad because we have Fernandes and Ronaldo and the board haven’t openly undermined the manager. But from an individual manager’s perspective it is as bad if not worse. Ole is trash.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ole has far far better individual quality, which has carried him to some extremely lucky results.

The situation isn’t as bad because we have Fernandes and Ronaldo and the board haven’t openly undermined the manager. But from an individual manager’s perspective it is as bad if not worse. Ole is trash.

So the situation isn’t as bad because of players that Ole signed. Didn’t Mourinho sign players too?

 

[KingCavani]

So the situation isn’t as bad because of players that Ole signed. Didn’t Mourinho sign players too?

Ole didn’t sign Ronaldo and nor was his ability to sign players essentially cut off at any point. The years have been kind to Mourinho’s 2018 opinions on what needed to be done. Pogba and Martial were cancerous and should have been out the door.

But yes the recruitment has generally improved, the biggest issue with Mourinho.

 

[Moonwalker]

Ole didn’t sign Ronaldo and nor was his ability to sign players essentially cut off at any point. The years have been kind to Mourinho’s 2018 opinions on what needed to be done. Pogba and Martial were cancerous and should have been out the door.

But yes the recruitment has generally improved, the biggest issue with Mourinho.

Pogba being cancerous wouldn't be very kind to Mourinho, seeing as he was the one who brought him in the first place.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Pogba being cancerous wouldn't be very kind to Mourinho, seeing as he was the one who brought him in the first place.

 

[KingCavani]

Pogba being cancerous wouldn't be very kind to Mourinho, seeing as he was the one who brought him in the first place.

Probably why I criticised his recruitment mate.