Panorama: Man United - Into the Red, BBC One, Tuesday, 8 June

[mickthered]

Panorama reporter John Sweeney heads to FC United of Manchester - a club set up in 2005 by supporters of Manchester United who were disgruntled by the takeover of their club by American businessman Malcolm Glazer.

The finances for Manchester United, and the rising debt levels in English football, are the subject of Tuesday's Panorama.

BBC News - Panorama - Fan club: FC United's love of the game

 

[Red Defence]

Sounds nice and depressing.

 

[032Devil]

The Glazers are gonna ban the Beeb from OT.

 

[Karel_Poborsky]

Sounds like an interesting watch.

Sure there will be some new wood to feed the fire.

 

[T2000]

Looking at that programme on the website, Dave Whelan says he almost bought United for £11 million.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Nice sounds like its worth a watch. Will the program be posted on iplayer after airing on tv?

 

[Lynk]

I'll set Sky to record it. I like the amount of media coverage this is getting.

 

[kietotheworld]

Nice sounds like its worth a watch. Will the program be posted on iplayer after airing on tv?

I'd very much expect so, there's no reason why it wouldn't be.

 

[fredthered]

Looking at this in a broader context, I expect quite a backlash from the general public.

In a period where the country in general is being asked to pay more to help clear off crippling debts, I do not see the general public taking kindly to being told that clubs like Manchester United can in essence, fiddle the system to avoid paying tax.

 

[mickthered]

A bit more of an insight to what will be in the programme

Revealed: truth about Glazers business empire beyond Manchester United | Football | The Guardian

 

[Tribec]

I wonder if United will try and get this programme blocked, I mean look what happened the last time a tv company did an expose on the debts and other businesses of our owners. Wasn't that way back in the late 70's and World In Action. We wouldn't want a repeat of the cosequences of that would we???

 

[fredthered]

I wonder if United will try and get this programme blocked, I mean look what happened the last time a tv company did an expose on the debts and other businesses of our owners. Wasn't that way back in the late 70's and World In Action. We wouldn't want a repeat of the cosequences of that would we???

If it gets rid of the cnuts, then yes.. thats exactly what we want...

 

[mickthered]

the andersred blog

 

[Pexbo]

The fact this report is put together by a G&G activist puts all credibility into doubt. If it was done by a neutral they could come to their own conclusion from the facts presented. As it is put together by someone who has already drawn a conclusion, you can garentuee the facts and figures will be hand picked to lead to the conclusion they want people to hear.

It's a shame because I was really looking forward to seeing this as I this as i thought it was completely neutral and I've only been able to draw an opinion myself from the facts and figures, it would have been nice to see what opinion another neutral draws.

Expect more Propaganda, expect the Glazers filing lots of complaints. Expect United not compliing with FA regulations and snubbing the BBC next year.

 

[Sir A1ex]

The fact this report is put together by a G&G activist puts all credibility into doubt. If it was done by a neutral they could come to their own conclusion from the facts presented.

The Panorama programme is a BBC production. You can argue about true neutrality in the media, but the BBC is as neutral as you'll get.

Some people like to be able to dismiss anything like this as biased propaganda though.

 

[Crerand Legend]

The fact this report is put together by a G&G activist puts all credibility into doubt. If it was done by a neutral they could come to their own conclusion from the facts presented. As it is put together by someone who has already drawn a conclusion, you can garentuee the facts and figures will be hand picked to lead to the conclusion they want people to hear.

It's a shame because I was really looking forward to seeing this as I this as i thought it was completely neutral and I've only been able to draw an opinion myself from the facts and figures, it would have been nice to see what opinion another neutral draws.

Expect more Propaganda, expect the Glazers filing lots of complaints. Expect United not compliing with FA regulations and snubbing the BBC next year.

So the BBC is taking sides against the Glazers, give me a break. The facts of their shady dealings have been exposed there is no defence of that

 

[Talking Vulture]

Everyone ought to watch this and see for themselves how bad the Glazers are for our club.

Hopefully this programme will be a nail in the coffin for those cnuts.

 

[GCHQ]

The Panorama programme is a BBC production. You can argue about true neutrality in the media, but the BBC is as neutral as you'll get.

Some people like to be able to dismiss anything like this as biased propaganda though.

The information the programme is based on just isn't credible though. You just have to see the way Andy Green, himself a very keen anti-Glazer activist, has valued the properties. The valuations are literally ''back of a fag packet'' calculations based on extremely unreliable methodology.

With no independently verified professional valuations, the programme's content can't be taken seriously and nor can the conclusions that Andy Green makes on his blog.

Just more biased propaganda I'm afraid. I'll stick to forming my conclusions on the basis of independently audited accounts filed at Companies House.

 

[sincher]

Panorama is sensationalist bollocks, mostly. I expect this to be no different.

 

[Sir A1ex]

Just more biased propaganda I'm afraid. I'll stick to forming my conclusions on the basis of independently audited accounts filed at Companies House.

Well that will tell you a lot about American companies.

I wonder what Roodboy thinks about that?

 

[Rado_N]

Panorama is sensationalist bollocks, mostly. I expect this to be no different.

Unfortunately true.

 

[blythy]

Everyone ought to watch this and see for themselves how bad the Glazers are for our club.

The problem is, I fear many United fans will turn a blind eye to this sort of thing.

We've seen it here on the forum - granted it's had a lot of coverage and response here, but you only need to look in the transfer forum to see people still branding big-name signings around like we still have that sort of cash.

There are still people who don't see the seriousness of the current situation, they're more concerned with transfer speculation.

 

[Crerand Legend]

The information the programme is based on just isn't credible though. You just have to see the way Andy Green, himself a very keen anti-Glazer activist, has valued the properties. The valuations are literally ''back of a fag packet'' calculations based on extremely unreliable methodology.

With no independently verified professional valuations, the programme's content can't be taken seriously and nor can the conclusions that Andy Green makes on his blog.

Just more biased propaganda I'm afraid. I'll stick to forming my conclusions on the basis of independently audited accounts filed at Companies House.

How are you qualified to write off the conclusions of an independantly produced TV programme? I really am beginning to wonder why you so blindly defend the Glazers

 

[GCHQ]

Well that will tell you a lot about American companies.

I wonder what Roodboy thinks about that?

I'm simply saying that the valuations that Andy Green has made just aren't credible. If someone can present me with credible and reliable information about the Glazers US companies then I'll be more than happy to comment.

 

[charleysurf]

Shouldn't this be merged with one of the other threads? It's just the same arguments going around in circles.

 

[Sir A1ex]

If someone can present me with credible and reliable information about the Glazers US companies then I'll be more than happy to comment.

Other than the prospectuses of the twenty four CMBS vehicles which contain the traceable 63 First Allied mortgages, the CMBS' most recent investor reports, information on the company's own website (First Allied Corporation), county and state records (where available) and First Allied's listings of vacant property?

Nah, can't help you there mate.

 

[charleysurf]

Other than the prospectuses of the twenty four CMBS vehicles which contain the traceable 63 First Allied mortgages, the CMBS' most recent investor reports, information on the company's own website (First Allied Corporation), county and state records (where available) and First Allied's listings of vacant property?

Nah, can't help you there mate.

Will they contain current valuations of the businesses, because that seems to be where the argument lies?

Also, will they explain whether money can be taken out of United to pay for them?

 

[Crerand Legend]

I'm simply saying that the valuations that Andy Green has made just aren't credible. If someone can present me with credible and reliable information about the Glazers US companies then I'll be more than happy to comment.

If it was growing on the end of your nose you still wouldnt see it, you dont want to

 

[GCHQ]

Other than the prospectuses of the twenty four CMBS vehicles which contain the traceable 63 First Allied mortgages, the CMBS' most recent investor reports, information on the company's own website (First Allied Corporation), county and state records (where available) and First Allied's listings of vacant property?

Nah, can't help you there mate.

Without independently verified professional valuations of the properties then you simply can't draw any accurate conclusions as to how much of an impact those mortgages will ultimately have on the company.

 

[dev1l]

Whelan pays tribute to Ferguson achievements

By Harry Harris, Football Correspondent

June 7, 2010



Wigan chairman Dave Whelan believes Sir Alex Ferguson is the only reason Manchester United have averted a crisis during the Glazers' ownership of the club.

Dave Whelan and Sir Alex Ferguson, pictured here in 1999, are long-standing friends



The Glazer family took over at Old Trafford in 2005 but, despite growing fears about the size of their debts across their businesses, Ferguson has won numerous trophies in that time including three league titles and the Champions League.

United were only able to clinch the Carling Cup last season but, for Whelan, it is essential that Ferguson remains in charge if they are to remain successful in the coming years.

"There was talk of Sir Alex retiring last year and the year before and he hasn't done it," Whelan told Soccernet. "He is just unbelievable in what he does.

"His energy, his enthusiasm, his passion for the game and for Manchester United has not waned. He is still the first at the training ground every morning. I've always found him the perfect gentleman, and I hope he stays on as manager of Manchester United for another four or five years.

"He still produces fabulous football teams, playing fantastic football, and for me he is the most important person at that club.

"Manchester United have remained right at the top throughout all the troublesome years under the Glazers, and there is a simple reason for this - and it's down to only one man."

Whelan believes Ferguson has outstripped Sir Matt Busby's achievements and can now be considered the best the game has seen.

"I feel he is the best manager ever," he said. "He has emulated Sir Matt, surpassed Sir Matt, and even at his age he retains such incredible energy - his enthusiasm for the game burns just as bright as ever.

"It is going to be enormously hard to fill Sir Alex's boots, I can tell you. I can see someone like Jose Mourinho coming to Manchester United, and he would certainly be colourful, and it would make life interesting, but there is only one Ferguson.

Dave Whelan: Sir Alex Ferguson has saved Manchester United - Barclays Premier League - ESPN Soccernet

 

[Sir A1ex]

Will they contain current valuations of the businesses, because that seems to be where the argument lies?

Also, will they explain whether money can be taken out of United to pay for them?

Not explicitly, but neither does anything else.

So we ahve two options - use what information is available (which it turns out is much more detailed than previously thought), or stick our fingers in our ears and refuse to look at any evidence.

 

[GCHQ]

How are you qualified to write off the conclusions of an independantly produced TV programme? I really am beginning to wonder why you so blindly defend the Glazers

Because unlike yourself, I AM qualified to write off those conclusions.

 

[Talking Vulture]

The problem is, I fear many United fans will turn a blind eye to this sort of thing.

We've seen it here on the forum - granted it's had a lot of coverage and response here, but you only need to look in the transfer forum to see people still branding big-name signings around like we still have that sort of cash.

There are still people who don't see the seriousness of the current situation, they're more concerned with transfer speculation.

We've still got the £80m from the Ronaldo sale tucked away. David Gill says so and a few posters on here say so, so it must be true.

We're gonna buy big this summer!!!!

 

[Crerand Legend]

Because unlike yourself, I AM qualified to write off those conclusions.

How are you qualified? You have been wrong big time on the Glazers it would seem

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

Because unlike yourself, I AM qualified to write off those conclusions.

Can you please detail in what way?

 

[Pexbo]

The Panorama programme is a BBC production. You can argue about true neutrality in the media, but the BBC is as neutral as you'll get.

Some people like to be able to dismiss anything like this as biased propaganda though.

Actually that is a mistake alot of people make. The BBC is indeed a "neutral" Corporation however this does not mean that each individual programme they commision has to give a balanced arguement. Andy Green is the "analyst" for the "Glazers" episode and he is known to be anti Glazer. Is that "neutral" to you?

The neutrality of the BBC lies in the fact they could not deny a programme as a counter arguement should the Glazer's want to give the other side of the coin.

So the BBC is taking sides against the Glazers, give me a break. The facts of their shady dealings have been exposed there is no defence of that

I'm not saying they are taking sides at all. Like I said above, the BBC is a neutral corporation and if they did not air this programme they could be accused of being "pro Glazer".

What I am saying is that I as much as anyone would like to find out what they actual truth is about our finances, I have drawn up my own opinion from the facts and figures but I don't know for certain if I am right. I was looking forward to this programme because I thought it was put together from a neutral perspective and would give a purely objective view of the financial situation of Manchester United. As it transpires though, the key person in the research is a known anti Glazer activist.

Can I now watch this programme and believe every word it says and use it to change or strenghten my opinion? No I can't and neither should you.

How are you qualified? You have been wrong big time on the Glazers it would seem

How has he been wrong? Because someone from the opposite camp has drawn a different conclusion to him and put it into a TV programme?

 

[GCHQ]

How are you qualified? You have been wrong big time on the Glazers it would seem

I'm an accountant.

How have I been wrong ''big time'' on the Glazers?

The only people who have been wrong ''big time'' on the Glazers are the lads at MUST who predicted they'd be forced in to selling United within three years of the 2005 takeover.

 

[Crerand Legend]

I'm an accountant.

How have I been wrong ''big time'' on the Glazers?

The only people who have been wrong ''big time'' on the Glazers are the lads at MUST who predicted they'd be forced in to selling United within three years of the 2005 takeover.

Im glad your not mine then if you think you have been right about the Glazers. You really have a problem with MUST dont you?. They are here to protect the rights of ordinary fans and surely that is what we all are on here

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

I reckon his pin badge broke first day.

 

[Rednails]

It would appear that MUFC is the only jewel in the Glazer portfolio. All their other assets such as shopping malls are going bust and they will need the income from the club to finance their debts. Therefore it is in their interests to keep the Club in a position where it is successful and generates plenty of revenue.

They will never sell us now