Panorama: Man United - Into the Red, BBC One, Tuesday, 8 June

[Pexbo]

Im glad your not mine then if you think you have been right about the Glazers. You really have a problem with MUST dont you?. They are here to protect the rights of ordinary fans and surely that is what we all are on here

As I have said time and time again, they have lost track completely. They were established to protect the rights of fans but spend more energy trying to get the Glazers out than pettion for things that might actually help the fans like better deals for familys, an option to opt out of the cup scheme (by offering your cup tickets to fans that don't get to see United as often as ST holders), a loyalty scheme for ST holders for 5/10/15/20/30 years ect ect..

Theres a million ways they could get the Glazers to make life better for fans, all they are doing is aggrivating the situation and in doing so making life harder for fans rather than easier.

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

As I have said time and time again, they have lost track completely. They were established to protect the rights of fans but spend more energy trying to get the Glazers out than pettion for things that might actually help the fans like better deals for familys, an option to opt out of the cup scheme (by offering your cup tickets to fans that don't get to see United as often as ST holders), a loyalty scheme for ST holders for 5/10/15/20/30 years ect ect..

Theres a million ways they could get the Glazers to make life better for fans, all they are doing is aggrivating the situation and in doing so making life harder for fans rather than easier.

Sorry but what stops the Glazers doing this for themselves?

"Don't worry, they're successful business people, they won't let us go bust." Heard that a few times in 2005. So, which business of theirs is successful? The malls? The Bucs?

 

[Crerand Legend]

As I have said time and time again, they have lost track completely. They were established to protect the rights of fans but spend more energy trying to get the Glazers out than pettion for things that might actually help the fans like better deals for familys, an option to opt out of the cup scheme (by offering your cup tickets to fans that don't get to see United as often as ST holders), a loyalty scheme for ST holders for 5/10/15/20/30 years ect ect..

Theres a million ways they could get the Glazers to make life better for fans, all they are doing is aggrivating the situation and in doing so making life harder for fans rather than easier.

You really believe all of that

 

[Talking Vulture]

As I have said time and time again, they have lost track completely. They were established to protect the rights of fans but spend more energy trying to get the Glazers out than pettion for things that might actually help the fans like better deals for familys, an option to opt out of the cup scheme (by offering your cup tickets to fans that don't get to see United as often as ST holders), a loyalty scheme for ST holders for 5/10/15/20/30 years ect ect..

Theres a million ways they could get the Glazers to make life better for fans, all they are doing is aggrivating the situation and in doing so making life harder for fans rather than easier.

Hahahhaha, fecking hell.

 

[Pexbo]

Sorry but what stops the Glazers doing this for themselves?

"Don't worry, they're successful business people, they won't let us go bust." Heard that a few times in 2005. So, which business of theirs is successful? The malls? The Bucs?

Because they are businessmen and it is not in their interest to do it right now. The G&G campaign is getting nobody anywhere. If anything it's turned into a way for a group of opertunistic businessmen who claim to be United fans to get thier grubby hands on our club. If you think having the Red Knights in charge of United will be any different you are sorely mistaken.

You really believe all of that

Do I believe that MUST have completey taken their eye off the ball? Yes I definately do. They have made it their agenda to take on and dethrone the Glazers, they were reported to have a bid lined up of £1billion when news of a £1.5billion bid from the far east was rejected they realised they were out of their depth.

Now the rumours are that the £1.5billion bid was leaked by the Glazers to warn off any potential buyers looking to come in with a bid any lower than that figure. If that is the case then do you really believe that they are struggling financially like it is being made out? They are here for the long term because they have a business plan that will in time make them a hefty profit. It doesn't matter how much campaigning people do, they are planning to stick around so instead of trying to kick them out which is proving near on impossible they should go back to looking after supporters interests like they were set up to do.

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

Because they are businessmen and it is not in their interest to do it right now. The G&G campaign is getting nobody anywhere. If anything it's turned into a way for a group of opertunistic businessmen who claim to be United fans to get thier grubby hands on our club. If you think having the Red Knights in charge of United will be any different you are sorely mistaken.



Do I believe that MUST have completey taken their eye off the ball? Yes I definately do. They have made it their agenda to take on and dethrone the Glazers, they were reported to have a bid lined up of £1billion when news of a £1.5billion bid from the far east was rejected they realised they were out of their depth.

Now the rumours are that the £1.5billion bid was leaked by the Glazers to warn off any potential buyers looking to come in with a bid any lower than that figure. If that is the case then do you really believe that they are struggling financially like it is being made out? They are here for the long term because they have a business plan that will in time make them a hefty profit. It doesn't matter how much campaigning people do, they are planning to stick around so instead of trying to kick them out which is proving near on impossible they should go back to looking after supporters interests like they were set up to do.

Abso-bloody-lutely! They've got no other cash cow to milk, have they?

 

[Talking Vulture]

Because they are businessmen and it is not in their interest to do it right now. The G&G campaign is getting nobody anywhere. If anything it's turned into a way for a group of opertunistic businessmen who claim to be United fans to get thier grubby hands on our club. If you think having the Red Knights in charge of United will be any different you are sorely mistaken.



Do I believe that MUST have completey taken their eye off the ball? Yes I definately do. They have made it their agenda to take on and dethrone the Glazers, they were reported to have a bid lined up of £1billion when news of a £1.5billion bid from the far east was rejected they realised they were out of their depth.

Now the rumours are that the £1.5billion bid was leaked by the Glazers to warn off any potential buyers looking to come in with a bid any lower than that figure. If that is the case then do you really believe that they are struggling financially like it is being made out? They are here for the long term because they have a business plan that will in time make them a hefty profit. It doesn't matter how much campaigning people do, they are planning to stick around so instead of trying to kick them out which is proving near on impossible they should go back to looking after supporters interests like they were set up to do.

Getting rid of the Glazers IS looking after the supporters interests.

Do you find our ticket prices acceptable? The same tickets that have been hiked to feck since they took over?

 

[Pexbo]

Abso-bloody-lutely! They've got no other cash cow to milk, have they?

So why would they not take the £1billion which we know is a genuine offer and pocket a £300m profit while clearing all debt?

Or take the reported £1.5billion offer and pocket £800m profit while clearing all debt?

Clearly they don't know what they are doing.

 

[Moriarty]

So why would they not take the £1billion which we know is a genuine offer and pocket a £300m profit while clearing all debt?

Or take the reported £1.5billion offer and pocket £800m profit while clearing all debt?

Clearly they don't know what they are doing.

According to the BBC's website, the Glazer's debt is actually £1.1bn
BBC News - Manchester United owner's debts hit £1.1bn

 

[Sir A1ex]

If anything it's turned into a way for a group of opertunistic businessmen who claim to be United fans to get thier grubby hands on our club. If you think having the Red Knights in charge of United will be any different you are sorely mistaken.

Even though the whole structure would be specifically designed to limit the returns for the investors and shift power back in the fans' direction?

Right...

You've got to either a) be really thick or b) have some kind of agenda a la Ciderman to go round spouting bollocks about how the RKs was all a charade and they would have revelased their true intentions once in.

 

[Pexbo]

Getting rid of the Glazers IS looking after the supporters interests.

Do you find our ticket prices acceptable? The same tickets that have been hiked to feck since they took over?

You think that's a Glazer thing?

Tottenham fans hit in the pocket by huge increase in season ticket prices | Mail Online

Arsenal defend big season ticket price hike | Metro.co.uk

Man City forced to defend season ticket price hike | Premiership News | tribalfootball.com

Sunderland chairman Niall Quinn defends season-ticket price hike | Mail Online

Season Tickets set to rise ahead of Premier League campaign - West Bromwich Albion FC - WBA MAD


Compare that to this:

Manchester United freeze season-ticket prices | Manchester United - Times Online

Call it what you like, a defensive move as there has been so much pressure on them, whatever... but it shows they do listen to fans if they speak loud enough.

Will they listen to fans telling them to leave? Of course not.

Will they listen to fans on other issues? Who knows? MUST have been too busy trying to kick them out.

 

[Pexbo]

Even though the whole structure would be specifically designed to limit the returns for the investors and shift power back in the fans' direction?

Right...

You've got to either a) be really thick or b) have some kind of agenda a la Ciderman to go round spouting bollocks about how the RKs was all a charade and they would have revelased their true intentions once in.

So introducing a scheme to reward fans loyalty and in doing so, encourage loyalty (loyal spending) would not be in their interest?

To encourage a younger group of fans: I.E. the children of the current fans, the future fanbase of the club... that will be very much put off by all the negativity around the club right now. You forget how fickle youngsters are, if they ee their Dad constantly bemoaning United saying its a club with no future ect ect they are going to look at this club called "Citeh" who have all the money in the world and are buying exicting names and seemingly have an exciting future.

Theres a shed full of incentives for the Glazers to start looking after us.

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

So why would they not take the £1billion which we know is a genuine offer and pocket a £300m profit while clearing all debt?

Or take the reported £1.5billion offer and pocket £800m profit while clearing all debt?

Clearly they don't know what they are doing.

Probably because they can milk the cash cow for a hell of a lot more over the next 7 years then do the same again with another bond issue.

 

[Talking Vulture]

You think that's a Glazer thing?

Tottenham fans hit in the pocket by huge increase in season ticket prices | Mail Online

Arsenal defend big season ticket price hike | Metro.co.uk

Man City forced to defend season ticket price hike | Premiership News | tribalfootball.com

Sunderland chairman Niall Quinn defends season-ticket price hike | Mail Online

Season Tickets set to rise ahead of Premier League campaign - West Bromwich Albion FC - WBA MAD


Compare that to this:

Manchester United freeze season-ticket prices | Manchester United - Times Online

Call it what you like, a defensive move as there has been so much pressure on them, whatever... but it shows they do listen to fans if they speak loud enough.

Will they listen to fans telling them to leave? Of course not.

Will they listen to fans on other issues? Who knows? MUST have been too busy trying to kick them out.

I don't give a feck about other clubs ticket prices. I'm taking about ours. Do you find it acceptable that over the last 5 years our ticket prices have doubled?

Do you find it acceptable that lots of people are giving up because they can't afford to go anymore?

The Glazers are cnuts and as soon as feckers like you accept this, the better.

 

[Sir A1ex]

So introducing a scheme to reward fans loyalty and in doing so, encourage loyalty (loyal spending) would not be in their interest?

To encourage a younger group of fans: I.E. the children of the current fans, the future fanbase of the club... that will be very much put off by all the negativity around the club right now. You forget how fickle youngsters are, if they ee their Dad constantly bemoaning United saying its a club with no future ect ect they are going to look at this club called "Citeh" who have all the money in the world and are buying exicting names and seemingly have an exciting future.

Theres a shed full of incentives for the Glazers to start looking after us.

I don't know what you're on about... I was talking about your ridiculous claim that the Red Knights would have suddenly revealed themselves as being in it just for the money as soon as they'd got in.

 

[GCHQ]

Getting rid of the Glazers IS looking after the supporters interests.

Do you find our ticket prices acceptable? The same tickets that have been hiked to feck since they took over?

Right. So the Red Knights/MUST plan is to keep the £500m bond in place and reduce ticket prices at the same time?

I have to say I see a fairly obvious problem with that Baldrick-esque cunning plan.

 

[Wumminator]

Do you find it acceptable that lots of people are giving up because they can't afford to go anymore?

This. People don't realise it's not all about the fecking finances being sustainable, me and my old man had a season ticket together for five years till those robbing bastards took over. feck them.

 

[Pexbo]

I don't give a feck about other clubs ticket prices. I'm taking about ours. Do you find it acceptable that over the last 5 years our ticket prices have doubled?

Do you find it acceptable that lots of people are giving up because they can't afford to go anymore?

The Glazers are cnuts and as soon as feckers like you accept this, the better.

Do you think I like all this? Do you think I want them here? No I fecking don't. Unlike you lot, I'm a realist and I know that this magical bail out by the Red Knights is story book stuff. They are businessmen for feck sake, they are putting forward huge sums of money not because they are fans of the club and they want to turn it into a charity to get the old faithful supporters back in the ground but because they have seen an opertunity to make some money for themselves.

The sooner you realise this the sooner you will realise that the Glazers are actually as solid owners as we can hope for right now.

You HAVE to compare the ticket prices to other teams, like I said above its a business not a charity, they are not going to subsidise the fans tickets and nor are the Red Knights. The fact is we do not have the most expensive tickets in the Premier League, not even close. We are 5th behind all the London Clubs and you can talk about the economic divide between London and Manchester but do you really think your average West Ham fan earns more than your average United fan? Does he bollocks. The Glazers have increased the ticket prices not to an extortionate level but to a level competitive in the Premier League.

The fact theres so many fans that can no longer afford to pay for these tickets is more down to the recession and the redundancies and lack of credit facilities that came with that and the so called principals of fans who won't support the Glazers for whatever reasons they have.

 

[Tribec]

As I have said time and time again, they have lost track completely. They were established to protect the rights of fans but spend more energy trying to get the Glazers out than pettion for things that might actually help the fans like better deals for familys, an option to opt out of the cup scheme (by offering your cup tickets to fans that don't get to see United as often as ST holders), a loyalty scheme for ST holders for 5/10/15/20/30 years ect ect..

Theres a million ways they could get the Glazers to make life better for fans, all they are doing is aggrivating the situation and in doing so making life harder for fans rather than easier.

I like this post I really do. Was it not the Glazers that removed MUST from the fans forum that was running prior to them taking over? How are MUST supposed to acheive anything, if the club no longer wishes to hear from them. How many fans will have moaned over the cup scheme and yet they've done nothing, how many fans have probably asked about making payments over a season rather than all at once by the end of May for season ticket? Why didn't the Glazers bring in this fabled ST loyalty scheme. I'd have been coming up to 30 years this year since my first season ticket, if these robbing sods hadn't taken over this club. However, when the season ticket equates to over a tenth of my annual wages, you realise that you can't possibly continue to watch them.

I'm just curious to know where you/they think they are going to generate all this extra money they think they can get out of the club. Talk of goal highlighs on phones won't be it, I can't see the other clubs allowing United to sign any agreement at home or abroad on there own. It would be suicide on behalf of the other teams.

It's interesting to read how some people are discrediting the information provided, I'd have thought the BBC having seen the documentation would have wanted it validated in some way so they are not exactly far from the mark, when the programme is aired. However, let's see what they have to say, let's make our own minds up.

 

[Sir A1ex]

I like this post I really do. Was it not the Glazers that removed MUST from the fans forum that was running prior to them taking over? How are MUST supposed to acheive anything, if the club no longer wishes to hear from them. How many fans will have moaned over the cup scheme and yet they've done nothing, how many fans have probably asked about making payments over a season rather than all at once by the end of May for season ticket? Why didn't the Glazers bring in this fabled ST loyalty scheme. I'd have been coming up to 30 years this year since my first season ticket, if these robbing sods hadn't taken over this club. However, when the season ticket equates to over a tenth of my annual wages, you realise that you can't possibly continue to watch them.

I'm just curious to know where you/they think they are going to generate all this extra money they think they can get out of the club. Talk of goal highlighs on phones won't be it, I can't see the other clubs allowing United to sign any agreement at home or abroad on there own. It would be suicide on behalf of the other teams.

It's interesting to read how some people are discrediting the information provided, I'd have thought the BBC having seen the documentation would have wanted it validated in some way so they are not exactly far from the mark, when the programme is aired. However, let's see what they have to say, let's make our own minds up.

Well said.

I know who I'd trust out of the BBC or roodboy/gchq.

 

[Sir A1ex]

I notice that David Conn is the other main investigator behind the Panorama piece. I presume this means he has gone from being probably the most well informed and respected writer on football finance to being another MUST stooge?

 

[GCHQ]

I notice that David Conn is the other main investigator behind the Panorama piece. I presume this means he has gone from being probably the most well informed and respected writer on football finance to being another MUST stooge?

Really?

He's an idealist and fantasist just like you Dan. That's why you like him and that's why you like reading the Guardian.

 

[Sir A1ex]

Really?

Yes really.

Excuse me as I allow myself a little chuckle at "pompous man on internet claims superior credibility to well established investigative journalist".

Oh hang on I forgot, you're an accountant and you can't be wrong. The infallible accountant, I like it!

 

[Joga_Bonito]

Do you think I like all this? Do you think I want them here? No I fecking don't. Unlike you lot, I'm a realist and I know that this magical bail out by the Red Knights is story book stuff. They are businessmen for feck sake, they are putting forward huge sums of money not because they are fans of the club and they want to turn it into a charity to get the old faithful supporters back in the ground but because they have seen an opertunity to make some money for themselves.

The sooner you realise this the sooner you will realise that the Glazers are actually as solid owners as we can hope for right now.

Citation needed.

And, by the way, if it's acceptable to speculate about what the Red Knights were planning to do, how is not also acceptable to speculate about what the known facts of the Glazer ownership infer about the clubs future?

While it is certainly true that there were absolutely no guarantee's that the Red Knights would have followed through with any of the proposals that were being talked about, which is, incidentally, why most people were very clear about waiting until a firm proposal was in place before deciding whether to back any bid, there is plenty of evidence of extremely wealthy people spending their own money on projects with little or no return.

You HAVE to compare the ticket prices to other teams [1], like I said above its a business not a charity, they are not going to subsidise the fans tickets and nor are the Red Knights. The fact is we do not have the most expensive tickets in the Premier League, not even close. We are 5th behind all the London Clubs and you can talk about the economic divide between London and Manchester but do you really think your average West Ham fan earns more than your average United fan? Does he bollocks. The Glazers have increased the ticket prices not to an extortionate level but to a level competitive in the Premier League.

The fact theres so many fans that can no longer afford to pay for these tickets is more down to the recession and the redundancies and lack of credit facilities that came with that [2] and the so called principals of fans who won't support the Glazers for whatever reasons they have.

[1] No you don't have to do that, because as you have even admitted, the demographics are not uniform across the country. And it should be obvious that many or even most clubs could well be charging far too much, which would discredit any comparison with those clubs.

That clubs are charging X says very little about whether X is either reasonable or affordable, particularly when the psychology of the average fan is completely different to the psychology of the very same people in almost all other areas of the market.

[2] Again, citation needed. But even if that was true, how is that a justification for ticket prices that are clearly too high for a certain subsection of the support? And there's a great hole in your reasoning. The very fact that ticket prices have been climbing for the last few years suggests that, recession or not, those rises were going to move the price of a season ticket beyond that which some people could afford. In other words, what has happened would almost certainly have happened, anyway, at least in a certain percentage of cases, regardless of any downturn in the economy.

And the rises continued during the worst of the recession, which is fairly clear evidence that the Glazers were sticking to a plan to extract as much money as possible from the supporters, as long as it didn't result in lower ticket revenue.

 

[robertsoncrusoe]

I'm an accountant.

How have I been wrong ''big time'' on the Glazers?

The only people who have been wrong ''big time'' on the Glazers are the lads at MUST who predicted they'd be forced in to selling United within three years of the 2005 takeover.

Turf accountant probably- and you've taken a lot of bets the wrong horse!

 

[Dublin Red]

I don't give a feck about other clubs ticket prices. I'm taking about ours. Do you find it acceptable that over the last 5 years our ticket prices have doubled?

Do you find it acceptable that lots of people are giving up because they can't afford to go anymore?

The Glazers are cnuts and as soon as feckers like you accept this, the better.

This. People don't realise it's not all about the fecking finances being sustainable, me and my old man had a season ticket together for five years till those robbing bastards took over. feck them.

I sympathies if ticket pricing are forcing some fans out but let's be realistic about them. They are averagely priced for the premiership. Football has changed and like it or not it's getting more and more commercial, United can not afford to stand still and not maximize it's earning potential. Liverpool did that from the 80's on and look where it has left them.

Look around you next time you at OT and you'll see fans who have traveled from all over the world , the ticket price is a small part of the cost of supporting the team to them.

Like it or not United is no longer just a Manchester football team, it is a Global business and us fans are going to have to adjust to all that entails because it is never going to change.

 

[Crerand Legend]

I sympathise if ticket pricing are facing some fans out but let's be realistic about them. They are averagely priced for the premiership. Football has changed and like it or not it's getting more and more commercial, United can not afford to stand still and not maximise it's earning potential. Liverpool did that from the 80's on and look where it has left them.

Look around you next time you at OT and you'll see fans who have travelled from all over the world , the ticket price is a small part of the cost of supporting the team to them.

Like it or not United is no longer just a Manchester football team, it is a Global business and us fans are going to have to adjust to all that entails because it is never going to change.

Fair enough but no other team has the capacity we have or the ability to attract sponsorship like we do so we should be more competitive in our ticket pricing. More importantly no other team operates an ACS which makes our season tickets potentially the most expensive

 

[Joga_Bonito]

I sympathies if ticket pricing are forcing some fans out but let's be realistic about them. They are averagely priced for the premiership. Football has changed and like it or not it's getting more and more commercial, United can not afford to stand still and not maximize it's earning potential. Liverpool did that from the 80's on and look where it has left them.

Look around you next time you at OT and you'll see fans who have traveled from all over the world , the ticket price is a small part of the cost of supporting the team to them.

Like it or not United is no longer just a Manchester football team, it is a Global business and us fans are going to have to adjust to all that entails because it is never going to change.

There's a rather dishonest sleight of hand involved in any comparison between ourselves and other clubs, as if the two situations are the same. It would only be fair to compare ticket prices in that way if most or all of that money was being reinvested back in to the club, as is the case at most other clubs, as far as any of us are aware.

Without the debt, none of the ticket price rises of recent years would have been necessary. As a general rule of thumb, the higher the demand, the lower the price. Of course, due to the limited capacity to satisfy demand because of the stadium size, that does complicate matters, somewhat. But it's still a truism that United could afford to have lower ticket prices, overall, and still match any other clubs total match day revenue.

When you also include the many lucrative sponsorship deals, as Crerand Legend has said, it's fairly obvious that the ticket price hikes had little to do with "[maximizing] earning potential" in the sense that it is normally used in relation to football clubs, and much more to do with the £45m debt repayments each year, plus all of the other costs (which total tens of millions) that are associated with various stages of refinancing.

Nothing that you have said addresses the very basic criticism that many people simply aren't prepared — and if they are, it may only be temporarily — to fund the Glazers eventual ownership of the club.

 

[Pexbo]

The more I read through this thread, the more I realise there is two factions that will never agree. The idealists and the realists. We both have the same hopes and dreams of a club run by the fans that is both affordable and sustainable. The difference is, the idealists are still fighting for this day dream while us realists have accepted that it will never happen and are looking to the future. While the idealists are bitching about the Glazers ruining the club, the realists have accepted their ownership as it is now an inevitability and are looking for ways life as a United fan might be improoved under this ownership.

If the idealists were as quick to protest againt real issues such as the fact season tickets are becoming unaffordable due to the cup scheme, rather than the fact we have owners that are putting our club in "debt" and not putting money forward for world class players then we might well be in a better position as supporters.

 

[Neutral]

Report: Glazer family $1.6 billion in debt



ESPN.com news services

LONDON -- The American owners of Manchester United are $1.6 billion in debt, leaving their control of the club in doubt, the BBC reported Monday.

The BBC said its investigation found the Glazer family's debts are $570 million greater than previously known. Malcolm Glazer and his sons also own the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

The Glazer family has been the subject of protests by a group of Manchester United fans who want it to sell the team.

All the extra debt comes after the Glazers borrowed extensively against their shopping mall business in the United States. The extent of the debt could fuel a further revolt by a group of United fans who oppose the Glazers' ownership.

The Glazers took over United in 2005 in a leveraged buyout worth $1.4 billion.

The BBC said it saw mortgage documents showing the Glazers have borrowed $570 million against shopping malls owned by their company First Allied Corporation. That's in addition to $1 billion in debts tied to Manchester United and $95 million to the Buccaneers.

The Buccaneers released a statement Monday trying to reassure their fans that the team is not in financial trouble.

"Buccaneers fans should know that the Glazer family is as financially well-positioned as ever before. Companies they own generate revenues in excess of $800 million each year," Jonathan Grella, the team's director of communications, said in the statement.

"Sophisticated real estate experts know that the family's refinancing of their commercial real estate before the global meltdown has proven to be the wise move.

"While First Allied represents only a small portion of their asset portfolio, it continues to generate significant profits, enjoys over 90 percent occupancy, and has long-term non-recourse financing.


"This franchise remains committed to bringing the resources to build its next championship team."

The Glazers have said they have assets totaling $2.9 billion.

"I don't think anybody can be satisfied with how Manchester United are being run," Dave Whelan, chairman of Premier League club Wigan, told the BBC program "Panorama."

"They have got somewhere in the order of a three-quarters of a billion pounds worth of debt. That has got to be eliminated and eliminated quickly."

The research for the BBC program was carried out by Andy Green, a London financial analyst who is part of a campaign by disgruntled United fans to oust the Glazers.

Thousands of United fans attended matches at Old Trafford last season adorned in green and gold colors instead of the club's usual red. The homage to United's original 19th century colors is a protest against the Glazers.

In March, United chief executive David Gill said the club's debts were easily covered by the income.

"In an ideal world people would like to not have a mortgage on their house, but that doesn't mean they don't enjoy the benefits of living in that house and can't afford that house," he said.

The Glazers have said they will not sell the club.

Forbes magazine recently estimated United is worth $1.8 billion -- making it the most valuable soccer team in its rankings for the sixth straight year.

The Glazer family has said that money will not be an issue in running the Buccaneers.

"Our football people have never been told no because of money,'' Buccaneers co-chairman Joel Glazer told The Tampa Tribune in late March. "Money will never be an issue when it comes to building this team the way we think it should be built."

Bucs officials, however, have said season-ticket sales are down and there is a real possibility of local television blackouts this year. Tampa Bay has sold out every home game since Raymond James Stadium opened in 1998.

Report: Glazer family, owners of Manchester United, Tampa Bay Buccaneers have $1.6B in debt - ESPN

Not really anything new, but just a taste of what american media + Glazers response has been like on the BBC show.



*Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere already.

 

[fredthered]

The more I read through this thread, the more I realise there is two factions that will never agree. The idealists and the realists. We both have the same hopes and dreams of a club run by the fans that is both affordable and sustainable. The difference is, the idealists are still fighting for this day dream while us realists have accepted that it will never happen and are looking to the future. While the idealists are bitching about the Glazers ruining the club, the realists have accepted their ownership as it is now an inevitability and are looking for ways life as a United fan might be improoved under this ownership.

If the idealists were as quick to protest againt real issues such as the fact season tickets are becoming unaffordable due to the cup scheme, rather than the fact we have owners that are putting our club in "debt" and not putting money forward for world class players then we might well be in a better position as supporters.

If the club wasnt in debt then the ticket prices wouldnt be rising so high, and you wouldnt be subjected to the ACS scheme.

Or did that bit whizz right above your head....

 

[fredthered]

"In an ideal world people would like to not have a mortgage on their house, but that doesn't mean they don't enjoy the benefits of living in that house and can't afford that house," he said.

The difference is, you stupid moronic fecking idiot, you dont take out a mortgage then expect someone else to pay it for you..

 

[Maroon Lucifer]

The difference is, you stupid moronic fecking idiot, you dont take out a mortgage then expect someone else to pay it for you..

Playing the devils advocate, unless you print your own money, your employers pay your mortgage.

 

[Pexbo]

If the club wasnt in debt then the ticket prices wouldnt be rising so high, and you wouldnt be subjected to the ACS scheme.

Or did that bit whizz right above your head....

fecking hell.

Did the fact I have said time and time again, that I do not want the Glazers here whizz by your head?

I m a realist. They are here and the fact is it doesnt matter who owns us right now, unless we get some sugar daddy that lets Ferguson pick his own team (never going to happen) this is the best we can hope for.

If the Red Knights took over, they might freeze ST prices for a year or two, but they would soon realise their massive investment is not paying them much dividends and you wound have at least one or two looking to pull out which would leave the whole scheme up in the air.

Whatever you like to believe the club is a business and not a charity and there wont be anyone subsidizing your ticket prices any time soon.

If anything, people who could afford tickets up until 2004/2005 and cant afford them now were incredibly lucky that they were in that position. The prices were well below average then and they are only realising that now they cant afford them.

 

[fredthered]

I sympathies if ticket pricing are forcing some fans out but let's be realistic about them. They are averagely priced for the premiership. Football has changed and like it or not it's getting more and more commercial, United can not afford to stand still and not maximize it's earning potential. Liverpool did that from the 80's on and look where it has left them.
.

It left them as the most succesful football team in english football history, owned by a fan of the club and with the second highest level of support in the country behind United.

What changed things wasnt them refusing to move forward, it was actually trying to move to the same business model that United have been using, that fecked them up totally.

Given that every other team that tries to compete with United is now running at astronomical losses, and we ourselves are massively in debt, do you not think its a bit ridiculous to suggest that somehow the big clubs are doing it right, and everyone else should follow suit.

Its our business practises that have landed us this deep in debt, have landed City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool all with huge debts.

 

[fredthered]

Playing the devils advocate, unless you print your own money, your employers pay your mortgage.

In return for you working for them.

You work - they pay - you get house

with the Glazers, you work - your company pays - they get the house.

 

[fredthered]

fecking hell.

Did the fact I have said time and time again, that I do not want the Glazers here whizz by your head?

I m a realist. They are here and the fact is it doesnt matter who owns us right now, unless we get some sugar daddy that lets Ferguson pick his own team (never going to happen) this is the best we can hope for.

If the Red Knights took over, they might freeze ST prices for a year or two, but they would soon realise their massive investment is not paying them much dividends and you wound have at least one or two looking to pull out which would leave the whole scheme up in the air.

Whatever you like to believe the club is a business and not a charity and there wont be anyone subsidizing your ticket prices any time soon.

If anything, people who could afford tickets up until 2004/2005 and cant afford them now were incredibly lucky that they were in that position. The prices were well below average then and they are only realising that now they cant afford them.

Read your own post numbnuts...

You said "people should complain about ticket prices not about the debt"

Its because of hte fecking debt that their tickets have gone up...

 

[Pexbo]

Read your own post numbnuts...

You said "people should complain about ticket prices not about the debt"

Its because of hte fecking debt that their tickets have gone up...

Read my own posts numbnuts.

Complaining about the debt and Glazer ownership is getting us nowhere.

Complaining about ticket prices on the other hand might be listened to.

I'm getting tired of discussing this with ignorant people that seem to think theres a miracle anti Glazer cure.

Wake up and smell the fecking roses, they are here to stay.

Stop wasting your energy on campaigning for them to leave the club and start campaingning for the individual issues that might actually be changed.

"Oh it won't happen, look at what happened last time we tried" is the general reaction to that.

Well that didnt fecking stop you trying to get them out after they have said countless times that they are here for the long run and they have no interest in selling.

Grow the feck up and campaign for something realistic for a change. You really think the Glazers are taking the campaigners dressed from head to toe in a tracksuit from the megastore with a green and gold scarf round thier neck seriously? Are they bollocks.

 

[fredthered]

Read my own posts numbnuts.

Complaining about the debt and Glazer ownership is getting us nowhere.

Complaining about ticket prices on the other hand might be listened to.

I'm getting tired of discussing this with ignorant people that seem to think theres a miracle anti Glazer cure.

Wake up and smell the fecking roses, they are here to stay.

Stop wasting your energy on campaigning for them to leave the club and start campaingning for the individual issues that might actually be changed.

"Oh it won't happen, look at what happened last time we tried" is the general reaction to that.

Well that didnt fecking stop you trying to get them out after they have said countless times that they are here for the long run and they have no interest in selling.

Grow the feck up and campaign for something realistic for a change. You really think the Glazers are taking the campaigners dressed from head to toe in a tracksuit from the megastore with a green and gold scarf round thier neck seriously? Are they bollocks.

Are you so fecking dumb you cant understand.

Whats the point of complaining about ticket prices. THey wont change, because the debts mean they will never go down. You seriously believe if you turn up at OT all screaming "please we want cheaper tickets" the banks are going to let the Glazers miss a few payments to keep you happy.. WAKE THE feck UP....

If you want cheaper tickets, then get rid of the fecking debt first then you stand a chance of going to the new owners and saying "hey, we'd like cheaper seats"

Your tickets cost what they do, because the cnuts owning the club have made it essential that they are that high.

Reduce ticket prices.. my fecking arse.. You really believe that turning up mob handed at OT singing "we want cheaper seats" is going to suddenly make them reduce prices.. Will it feck...

What will make them listen to you, is when you stop giving them the money. You keep paying.. they will keep taking.

Its you that needs to grow up, and grow a set of bollocks.

The Glazers will not listen to you. THey dont give a feck if you dont like the prices. In fact if you are paying them, they are sat there looking at you thinking "look at that dumb cnut.. complaining about tickets, but still pays.. what a fecking moron"

The only time they will start to listen is when enough people stop giving them what they want. Until that point, they can sit their laughing their tits off at you, and you like a dumb cnut will allow them to do it, because you are too stupid to realise that they are doing it.

 

[RedCanuck]

If the club wasnt in debt then the ticket prices wouldnt be rising so high, and you wouldnt be subjected to the ACS scheme.
Or did that bit whizz right above your head....

However Must opposed a fully-funded takeover by BSkyB that would not have left United with debt.