Paul Pogba’s pressing

[andersj]

There is a myth that Paul Pogba is a lazy player and I think it is very unfair. He is not a great defender or the best at tracking back, but it is clearly not about effort (more about awareness). His pressing has always been very good, and even more so when he gets the freedom to do it (not restricted as a CM in other words).

It is interessting to see his «pressing stat» from Saturday. Statsbomb counts the number of times a player apply pressure to an opposing player (who is receiving, carrying or releasing the ball). Against Leeds Pogba put pressure on an opposing player 26 times. More than any other Man Utd-player, Freds number was 23, despite playing 15 fewer minutes.

https://fbref.com/en/matches/e62685d4/Manchester-United-Leeds-United-August-14-2021-Premier-League


And this is not something new. Pogba has always been good at pressing. Even at Juve he was known for it. But as a CM in a 4231 it is not a natural part of his game as he becomes a deeper and more laidback playmaker. If we continue playing him as LCM/LW his will continue to be a force also off the ball.

Maybe this belongs in his performance thread. But due to the amount of abuse Pogba get (and quite a bit of unfair criticism), I think it deserves a seperate thread.

 

[roonster09]

He averaged around 15 in the last few seasons, so this is way above his average level. Maybe it's do with position. It's good to see him leading this stat, key to team success if everyone working hard on and off the ball. Hopefully he keeps it up. I don't expect 26 every game, it's not realistic target IMO.

 

[JPRouve]

Pogba's main issue is that he turns like a super tanker, he tries to do all the thing that he is supposed to do but he will often be late due to a lack of lateral speed. Pogba is a great technician but an average athlete.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That pressing stat seems a bit suspect. Apparently McT only managed 6. Which I find very hard to believe.

 

[El Jefe]

Pogba's main issue is that he turns like a super tanker, he tries to do all the thing that he is supposed to do but he will often be late due to a lack of lateral speed. Pogba is a great technician but an average athlete.

This isn't the Matic thread. There's no world where Pogba is an average athlete for a footballer. In fact he's one of the most athletic in our team.

 

[CanadianUtd]

Pogba's main issue is that he turns like a super tanker, he tries to do all the thing that he is supposed to do but he will often be late due to a lack of lateral speed. Pogba is a great technician but an average athlete.

 

[JPRouve]

This isn't the Matic thread. There's no world where Pogba is an average athlete for a footballer. In fact he's one of the most athletic in our team.

I can't agree with that, Pogba doesn't change direction quickly and his acceleration is very average. I don't see in which scenario you can say that he is the most athletic player in our team, McTominay is a more athletic player, Cavani, Wan Bissaka, Shaw and even Varane are more athletic. Pogba has power and balance but that's it.

 

[Adam-Utd]

The only thing Pogba has ever struggled with is being pressed himself.

In a 2 man midfield his tendency to try and hold off the presser and beat him, instead of moving it away quickly is what made him look bad.

It's just not something that comes natural to him, he's always used his body to hold off players and in attacking positions it works well, but when deep in midfield he gets surrounded by 2/3 players and causes a dangerous turn over.

He would sometimes get caught sleeping/turned off and a runner would get beyond him, but that didn't make him lazy - just lacking defensive responsibility.

Playing him on the wing has pretty much fixed most of that - but lets not forget his man scored for Leeds. It's just something we have to accept with Pogba.

 

[Bwuk]

I don’t think it’s a lack of effort I think he just doesn’t have the defensive nous. He often doesn’t notice his runner.

Can’t do everything.

 

[Oranges038]

I thought this was going to be about how he does his trousers.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The only thing Pogba has ever struggled with is being pressed himself.

In a 2 man midfield his tendency to try and hold off the presser and beat him, instead of moving it away quickly is what made him look bad.

It's just not something that comes natural to him, he's always used his body to hold off players and in attacking positions it works well, but when deep in midfield he gets surrounded by 2/3 players and causes a dangerous turn over.

He would sometimes get caught sleeping/turned off and a runner would get beyond him, but that didn't make him lazy - just lacking defensive responsibility.

Playing him on the wing has pretty much fixed most of that - but lets not forget his man scored for Leeds. It's just something we have to accept with Pogba.

Was thinking that the other day. He’s like Bruno in that there’s an obvious downside (for Bruno giving the ball away with risky passes, for Pogba switching off defensively) which their upside more than makes up for providing we make allowances for the downside.

Ole’s basically solved the Pogba conundrum by playing him in a position where switching off or being caught on the ball doesn’t put the opposition straight through on our goal. I actually think this also helps Pogba enjoy his football more and express himself better in attack. Because I’m sure he’s aware when he fecks up defensively, which affects his confidence and his overall game.

 

[Mickeza]

Pogba's main issue is that he turns like a super tanker, he tries to do all the thing that he is supposed to do but he will often be late due to a lack of lateral speed. Pogba is a great technician but an average athlete.

This is correct. Concentration and awareness are his issues combined with being slow on the turn rather than any lack of effort. Only thing I’d add is obviously he’s not an average athlete once he’s turned and running straight - he’s exceptional then.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Was thinking that the other day. He’s like Bruno in that there’s an obvious downside (for Bruno giving the ball away with risky passes, for Pogba switching off defensively) which their upside more than makes up for providing we make allowances for the downside.

Ole’s basically solved the Pogba conundrum by playing him in a position where switching off or being caught on the ball doesn’t put the opposition straight through on our goal. I actually think this also helps Pogba enjoy his football more and express himself better in attack. Because I’m sure he’s aware when he fecks up defensively, which affects his confidence and his overall game.

Exactly.

People are more willing to accept players losing the ball in advanced positions. Taking that weight of responsibility off him is a smart move. While he's good enough as a player to play in a 2 man midfield, you aren't really getting the best out of him in terms of attacking output, and you're maximising his weaknesses in terms of losing possession + defensive responsibility.

At Juve he pretty much played as a left winger in possession, but out of possession he'd settle more into a 3 man midfield with 5 at the back. People seem to think he's always been a natural in a 4-3-3 but that just isn't really true.

As you say it allows him to play with maximum confidence, and a confident/happy Pogba is something any team would want. He tracks his fullback just as much as any other winger too.

While we've sort of stumbled into playing him there, I think it's worked out for the best. While Rashford is injured our best formation is with him LW and Sancho or Greenwood RW. It seems to bring the best out of Fernandes too.

 

[11101]

This isn't the Matic thread. There's no world where Pogba is an average athlete for a footballer. In fact he's one of the most athletic in our team.

He is, but he is tall with a long stride. He is not the most agile player we've got. Once he's moving in a particular direction he is staying in that direction. Contrast that to somebody like Fred who moves around like he's bouncing off an invisible wall.

 

[KennyBurner]

He doesn't close down or sense danger quickly enough. He could have done better on Aylings goal which most blames on Degea but really it was all Pogba hoping nothing much would come off it. Its a horrible approach to defending.

 

[lifted]

I don’t think it’s a lack of effort I think he just doesn’t have the defensive nous. He often doesn’t notice his runner.

Can’t do everything.

I've always seen it as a concentration issue and I've always felt that concentration is Pogba's biggest flaw.

 

[justsomebloke]

His presses/90 were about 18 in 19/20 (when he mostly played higher up in the midfield), about 12 in 20/21 (when he was also generally used further forward) and 15 last season (when he split time between the central pivot and left wing). The point is that all of those is bottom-quarter for a midfielder. So over the last three seasons, his volume of pressing has ranged from "very low" to "extremely low".

I wouldn't read much into the stats from a single game, but it's an interesting tidbit.

 

[Rozay]

Oddly enough, Pogba has generally often posted respectable defensive stats. I’ve often felt his issue is not what I feel is a bit of a lazy consensus in terms of no effort - I think the bigger problem is he isn’t good at it. I’d love to see him do a bleep test in training. His shuttle running is very poor, he cannot cover ground quickly and then on the occasions he does get there - his actual tackling technique is also pretty terrible. I see Pogba chasing after a player and I am almost certain that he is going to foul him rather than win the ball.

It’s such a shame too as everything would be so much simpler if he were 15% better at the defending part of the game. We’d immediately probably have the best midfield in the PL in fact.

 

[Mr Smith]

Agreed. The problem is usually not a lack of effort, though he often has a languid style that can look lazy. The problem is positional discipline. Pogba' s positional issues have always been to do with getting caught out of position or not knowing where to be at the crucial moment.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Oh good, another Pogba bashing thread, just what we needed.

 

[Abraxas]

Never had a particular problem with his work-rate. Martial is the one player I question in that regard, even Ole himself has done so and I think the numbers paint the picture.

I think it's more a case that in deeper roles he doesn't really understand the defensive side of those positions that well. He can look a little casual because he usually thinks he should be sitting in and I just don't think he knows when to press or cover compared to a free role where the decision is less tactical. There have been a few times he's ambled back into position that have been less than impressive but within the grand scheme of things not that often, and furthermore, he's also our most likely midfielder to make a lung busting break forward with the ball so you have to consider the entirety.

It's the consistency of performance that have been concerning over the years. Some of the casual on the ball play in our third, not being pivotal enough in certain games, periods of fixtures where very little is produced. I've not particularly found it to correlate with work-rate. I think if we knew exactly what the full reasons are we would have solved it. At this point in his career I think you just have to be content with saying it's a combination of tactical, personnel and mainly reasons specific to him, i.e. his own flaws as a footballer without being too specific.

 

[Longshanks]

I wonder how many ball recoveries and interceptions he made out of those 26 presses?

Pogba tends to go through the motions with his defensive work, no real intensity or commitment to it and thats the issue its not that he doesn't do his work its that he's not very good at it and doesn't really seem to want to do it either.

 

[Godfather]

Was thinking that the other day. He’s like Bruno in that there’s an obvious downside (for Bruno giving the ball away with risky passes, for Pogba switching off defensively) which their upside more than makes up for providing we make allowances for the downside.

Ole’s basically solved the Pogba conundrum by playing him in a position where switching off or being caught on the ball doesn’t put the opposition straight through on our goal. I actually think this also helps Pogba enjoy his football more and express himself better in attack. Because I’m sure he’s aware when he fecks up defensively, which affects his confidence and his overall game.

Couldn't agree more to this. Ole deserves praise for that.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

His presses/90 were about 18 in 19/20 (when he mostly played higher up in the midfield), about 12 in 20/21 (when he was also generally used further forward) and 15 last season (when he split time between the central pivot and left wing). The point is that all of those is bottom-quarter for a midfielder. So over the last three seasons, his volume of pressing has ranged from "very low" to "extremely low".

I wouldn't read much into the stats from a single game, but it's an interesting tidbit.

Well well, pressing is not everything, it's pretty ahrd to measure that too. Pogba is long legged and showed he can catch the ball being in good positions, tackling pretty well too. He's not a dynamic player becasue of his body consitution and will never be so people should stop judging him on that. Why don't wee then rate players like Fred based on that, who's excellent at that? Double measures again.

I don't know the exact stats but he looks to always win few 50-50s somewhere, have a good defensive header form corners, and win few balls stretching his legs or outmuscling someone and in total that's always better than the like of James who can win the ball to save their life, other than "pressing".

So his defensive work is a bit underrated if anything it's the discipline deep in the middle of the park which is lacking sometimes but that's not all that important if he palys in one of the widers positions further up the pitch. Of course I am sure Ole would want to build a progressive team with us pressing as a one altogether but Pogba wins balls differently and I didn't notice a single problem against Leeds defensively. So maybe in the tough touch games we might see him drop to the bench but in the end, the advantage of him keeping possession with his back to goal, excellent combinational play and setting up players for fun, should already mean he should start for us in majority of games we want to win and don't set up as not losing.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

He doesn't close down or sense danger quickly enough. He could have done better on Aylings goal which most blames on Degea but really it was all Pogba hoping nothing much would come off it. Its a horrible approach to defending.

That was a wonder goal and noone expects him to hit it like this often, you could blame few players not doing enough before it happened with the same share of blame.

 

[Marwood]

His pressing isn't great and never will be. He's not built for it.

But if he's consistently creating chances and maybe getting 10 goals himself(he's capable of this) then it doesn't matter.

 

[Gator Nate]

Pogba's main issue is that he turns like a super tanker, he tries to do all the thing that he is supposed to do but he will often be late due to a lack of lateral speed. Pogba is a great technician but an average athlete.

I would never call him an average athlete, but it's easy to forget how large he actually is. He's great with the ball, but I think he just lacks the defensive mentality and his size doesn't help his maneuverability. Which is fine, because...

Was thinking that the other day. He’s like Bruno in that there’s an obvious downside (for Bruno giving the ball away with risky passes, for Pogba switching off defensively) which their upside more than makes up for providing we make allowances for the downside.

Ole’s basically solved the Pogba conundrum by playing him in a position where switching off or being caught on the ball doesn’t put the opposition straight through on our goal. I actually think this also helps Pogba enjoy his football more and express himself better in attack. Because I’m sure he’s aware when he fecks up defensively, which affects his confidence and his overall game.

Totally agree here. Ole's figured out how best to harness that within the system he's creating. And I think he's almost done creating this team. I can't wait to see what comes during the October stretch.

 

[Teja]

It's the first game of the season guys, everyone runs around a bit more after being well rested. Give it a few weeks and we'll have better data.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

He averaged around 15 in the last few seasons, so this is way above his average level. Maybe it's do with position. It's good to see him leading this stat, key to team success if everyone working hard on and off the ball. Hopefully he keeps it up. I don't expect 26 every game, it's not realistic target IMO.

No it’s not his position, even last year his defensive work and awareness was average at worst but that doesn’t fit the narrative so no one noticed.

 

[justsomebloke]

Well well, pressing is not everything, it's pretty ahrd to measure that too. Pogba is long legged and showed he can catch the ball being in good positions, tackling pretty well too. He's not a dynamic player becasue of his body consitution and will never be so people should stop judging him on that. Why don't wee then rate players like Fred based on that, who's excellent at that? Double measures again.

I don't know the exact stats but he looks to always win few 50-50s somewhere, have a good defensive header form corners, and win few balls stretching his legs or outmuscling someone and in total that's always better than the like of James who can win the ball to save their life, other than "pressing".

So his defensive work is a bit underrated if anything it's the discipline deep in the middle of the park which is lacking sometimes but that's not all that important if he palys in one of the widers positions further up the pitch. Of course I am sure Ole would want to build a progressive team with us pressing as a one altogether but Pogba wins balls differently and I didn't notice a single problem against Leeds defensively. So maybe in the tough touch games we might see him drop to the bench but in the end, the advantage of him keeping possession with his back to goal, excellent combinational play and setting up players for fun, should already mean he should start for us in majority of games we want to win and don't set up as not losing.

1. I'm using the same measure as the post I responded to - the number of pressing actions performed in a game (or per 90, for the per season figure). Which is a pretty fair and straightforward measure of how much pressing a player does. What that shows is that Pogba did a lot more pressing in the Leeds game than he's been doing over the previous three seasons.

2. Pogba demonstrably tackles rarely for a midfielder, and also with a low rate of success on the relatively few occasions when he attempts it.

3. "Double measures"? I've not written anything about Fred, but if I did, I'd use the same measure. Unlike Pogba, he is a frequent presser (about 24/90, or roughly the same as Pogba had against Leeds). They are both quite effective pressers in terms of success%. But pressing frequency may also reflect a difference in roles rather than a difference in qualities.

4. Winning the ball: The stats really paint the opposite picture. He has very few interceptions, tackles made are bottom-drawer (10 percentile...), recoveries are about average for his position. Which I must say is exactly what I'd expect on the basis of eye-test too.

5. I can't say I agree that his defensive work is underrated. It doesn't look very good to me when I watch him play, and his defensively oriented stats generally range between awful and mediocre.

6. Of course, he may very well still be worth it.

 

[Tom Cato]

Pogba's main issue is that he turns like a super tanker, he tries to do all the thing that he is supposed to do but he will often be late due to a lack of lateral speed. Pogba is a great technician but an average athlete.

Pobas stride going forward is one of the most aesthetically pleasing sights in football

 

[Baneofthegame]

Oh good, another Pogba bashing thread, just what we needed.

Did you read the OP? If anything it’s highlighting how he gets undue criticism for his “lack of effort”.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

He did put in a lot of work against Leeds and that is what is required against them. He did look knackered around 60 mins

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Pobas stride going forward is one of the most aesthetically pleasing sights in football

This as well, I can sort of see the him not having explosive power but when he gets moving with the ball going through people, people bouncing off him to then open up his stride in to open grass is a thing of beauty. That’s strength, power and balance to be able to do that which are all athletic trates. So to say he isn’t that great of an athlete is ludacris.

He’s just one of those annoying athletes that makes it all look so easy. Glides across the grass rather than straining every muscle in his body to drive himself forward Like say a Ronaldo or Rashford.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Pogba's main issue is that he turns like a super tanker, he tries to do all the thing that he is supposed to do but he will often be late due to a lack of lateral speed. Pogba is a great technician but an average athlete.

Actually think this is a great point. While Pobga is hard to stop once he drives forward with the ball, and is excellent at hold defenders off while manipulating the ball, he does turn incredibly slowly and that hampers his ability to press/defend properly, to weave through tight spaces and so on.

 

[Borys]

If we stick to the same source of data and compare his defensive stats to other midfielders, it does reflect very good what I see with "an eye test".

Also, it's interesting to compare him to AMs/wingers (2nd pic) where he seems to be much more involved defensively compared to this group of players.
Last picture is bonus (Rashford defensive actions compared to other attacking players - IMO part of the reason why it's so difficult for players like Pogba to play in midfield for our team).

 

[MrEarl]

Playing Pogba comes with a cost. It seems that the only position he fits into is on left-wing. That puts Rashford on the bench. So playing Pogba halts the development of one of the if not the best young players United has in favor of another who is unlikely to have any future at the club. See PSG waiting to pay him over 500,000 a week next year.

 

[Mr PG]

This isn't the Matic thread. There's no world where Pogba is an average athlete for a footballer. In fact he's one of the most athletic in our team.

Bigger/Taller players will always look slower....it's a perception issue as Pogba is pretty fast.

 

[Sayros]

Bigger/Taller players will always look slower....it's a perception issue as Pogba is pretty fast.

Yeah, Pogba is not a slow player by any means, I do think it's fair to question his reaction speed on defense, but it's got nothing to do with his physical attributes.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

https://fbref.com/en/matches/7794fd...astle-United-September-11-2021-Premier-League

He had 18 presses vs Newcastle. The most in the team again. Next closest was Varane and Greenwood at 12(probably goes unnoticed how often he'll press).