Paul Pogba - Juventus player

Ish

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Had all the “ingredients/tools” to be world class and one of the very best, at his disposal. Reached those heights at times in his career but faded badly (& quickly) and lacked consistency due to a combination of commitment/desire and injuries.

Not sure he’s made the correct career moves either.
 

Pickle85

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Will this fanbase ever let go of their Pogba obsession/hatred?

How many times can you have the same discussion?
I don't think many are obsessed about the guy or hate him, do they? I think most get frustrated by the 'amazing technique' brigade who try to paint him as some tremendously complete footballer whose talents the evil Manchester United wasted.
 

Remember the geese

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He really wasn't. Nowhere near consistent enough to claim that. Our most talented for several years? Maybe, but certainly not our best player.
From the moment he signed, up until around the point Bruno joined, Pogba was our best performer. Zlatan had a good first season and De Gea was at his peak, but at least from an outfield point of view, Pogba was our best player.
 

Fortitude

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I don't think many are obsessed about the guy or hate him, do they? I think most get frustrated by the 'amazing technique' brigade who try to paint him as some tremendously complete footballer whose talents the evil Manchester United wasted.
The guy left years ago, the vitriol has been incessant since, just like for Lukaku. Although that’s reduced by 75% with the loss of giflord.
 

11101

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He couldn't lace Zlatan shoes. To even put them in same sentence is laughable.

Pogba was very good at one thing. That was promoting him self on social media. Just like Lingard tried. As a football player, he was average. If even that. 1 good game, 20 bad games. 1 good season, 7 bad seasons.
Im not sure I agree and the bolded accusation could be levelled at either of them. Zlatan with his whole lion image was just as bad and neither were quite as brilliant as they thought they were. Zlatan has played for half the clubs in Europe for a reason and I don't think he ever overachieved anywhere he went.

Looking at their trophy cabinets and how instrumental they were to those trophies they're pretty even.
 

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Pogba was lead down the garden path by his agent. If he had stayed at United, been patient for a while, listened to Fergie, he might have ended up one of our all-time greats.
 

horsechoker

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Pogba was lead down the garden path by his agent. If he had stayed at United, been patient for a while, listened to Fergie, he might have ended up one of our all-time greats.
Arguably his injury troubles would've still persisted and he would have probably ended up being a player who was great in spells but in the physio room half the time.
 

Pickle85

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Can't tell if this is serious or tongue in cheek! Tbh I totally 'nothing' him...he was great to watch at times and very frustrating at others. I will barely remember his time at the club.
 

golden_blunder

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Pogba was a great footballer. We never were able to construct a balanced midfield to mitigate his few weaknesses. All we had to do was get a destroyer DM and a controller CM beside him, and let him be the maverick that he was. His combination of skill, technique and power was rare. Incredible talent
You say that but we tried multiple personnel and multiple formations. His biggest flaws in my opinion were not related to those anyway, they were 1. Mental aspect, 2. Slowing United’s game down by holding onto the ball too long in the PL
He should have give to Spain where he’s probably have looked good in the highlight reels of Madrid. With hindsight he wasn’t right fit for the PL
 

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Still maintain he was a decent signing.
That is one of the core elements of his story I think. When he came, he was one of the best players in the squad, reputation wise. He also came at a time, when our midfield needed serious improvement and the squad in general was pretty flat. The issue though was, I think, this transfer was carried by the supposedly "great return story". And I think, it carried club and player away. We obviously hadn't understood what the conditions where, to make him thrive. And that being said, this definitely applies for big chunks of the fanbase back then and reading the comments here, even today. Tinkering with his position was a factor. His team mates were a factor. Him being looked at as a player to lead the team was a factor. And there were probably even more variables in the equasion. All in all, it led to many disappointment all over the place. Raiola and some of Pogs public statements piled onto it even more.

Who knows what could have been. I am pretty sure, he wouldn't have become a world star at Madrid for some of the same reasons as with United. But another team, with a better running "machine" ready to optimize the conditions for Pogba to shine, I think, he could have become a bigger name than he is now.

That being said, I think, he arrived at the scene 10 years to late. Would have been a bigger star in the 90ties and early 2000s. For me he is one of the chapters of what is wrong with Uniteds recruitment, headline "Go for players for the wrong reasons"
 

izzydiggler

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Pogba is a poster boy of the modern 'fan' that values players over clubs - huge hype and 'influence' build from nothing that is done on the field since he was a 'kid'.

8 years of relative mediocrity later (plus evidence he's a drugs cheat) yet there's still a slavish cult.

It's unfathomable that people still pine for the him.
 

VP89

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Shite signing, saw it without hindsight. Some upset mod didn't like it. Hence the tagine.
 

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He never was all that and his talent has been overrated.
 

Son

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Had all the “ingredients/tools” to be world class and one of the very best, at his disposal. Reached those heights at times in his career but faded badly (& quickly) and lacked consistency due to a combination of commitment/desire and injuries.

Not sure he’s made the correct career moves either.
One thing I’ll give Pogba he never went to PSG like Veratti for example. Veratti kinda just faded away at that club. Sure he won a lot of titles but Pogba actually joined the toughest leagues and picked up injuries because of it.

He definitely tried to do it the hard way and wasn’t quite technical enough for Madrid or Barcelona so coming to United kinda made sense.

He looked built for the Prem at first glance. I still think he should have stayed at United and he may of got a move to Barcelona after a few years under Fergie.
 

Ish

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One thing I’ll give Pogba he never went to PSG like Veratti for example. Veratti kinda just faded away at that club. Sure he won a lot of titles but Pogba actually joined the toughest leagues and picked up injuries because of it.

He definitely tried to do it the hard way and wasn’t quite technical enough for Madrid or Barcelona so coming to United kinda made sense.

He looked built for the Prem at first glance. I still think he should have stayed at United and he may of got a move to Barcelona after a few years under Fergie.
I think he was technical enough for La Liga. I don’t think lacking technique was his big issue. It was a mixture of half arsing it, injuries & possibly never committing to a set position. IMO anyway.

Could have been immense in a Pep “8” system (KdB/Gundogan), or a “normal b2b 8” system or even as he was at Juve before our move, shifted out and removing all his defensive duties.

Kind of like a Jack of all trades but he should have mastered one, rather.
 

Son

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I think he was technical enough for La Liga. I don’t think lacking technique was his big issue. It was a mixture of half arsing it, injuries & possibly never committing to a set position. IMO anyway.

Could have been immense in a Pep “8” system (KdB/Gundogan), or a “normal b2b 8” system or even as he was at Juve before our move, shifted out and removing all his defensive duties.

Kind of like a Jack of all trades but he should have mastered one, rather.
He’s technical for sure but what I meant to say was he wouldn’t have got in the Madrid team ahead of Kroos or Modric. Maybe if they’d played Pogba more all out attack in place of Asensio maybe but even then Asensio for a brief period looked a sure bet to become a world star.

He defintiely wanted Madrid and obviously Barcelona were more looking for someone in the Xavi mould after he retired.

Pogba would have only joined those clubs so in Spain so it was difficult to see a scenario they would have bothered doing a deal.
 

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I feel like he has had a good career but have a feeling of "what could he have been?" but maybe that was me buying into the hype and overrating his ability/potential. Apparently French fans also had to lower their expectations of him
 

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He absolutely was not
Pogba almost certainly was our best player over the course of his first four years. Probably only the best in one of those actual seasons, but he was one of our better players in the other three as well. Meanwhile the players that outperformed him one season would then be utterly poor the next. People complain about his consistency but ignore the fact that every other player we had was even more inconsistent and had less good periods. He wasn't as good as we wanted him to be but he was still the best of a bad bunch.

Of course the less said about his last two seasons the better...
 

MadDogg

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Pogba was a great footballer. We never were able to construct a balanced midfield to mitigate his few weaknesses. All we had to do was get a destroyer DM and a controller CM beside him, and let him be the maverick that he was. His combination of skill, technique and power was rare. Incredible talent
Yep. Instead we only did that twice in his entire six years here. One short period in his first season (Herrera and Carrick beside him) where he was solid and the team as a whole was the best it was that season, then another period in his third season (Herrera and Matic) which was the best form of his career. The latter was also by far the best midfield balance we've had in the last decade and we had literal title-winning form in the 20 games they played together (17 wins, 2 draws and a loss). So what did we do...revert straight back to using him deep and expecting him to be the controlling player. :rolleyes:
 
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Ish

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He’s technical for sure but what I meant to say was he wouldn’t have got in the Madrid team ahead of Kroos or Modric. Maybe if they’d played Pogba more all out attack in place of Asensio maybe but even then Asensio for a brief period looked a sure bet to become a world star.

He defintiely wanted Madrid and obviously Barcelona were more looking for someone in the Xavi mould after he retired.

Pogba would have only joined those clubs so in Spain so it was difficult to see a scenario they would have bothered doing a deal.
Yeah agreed.
 

Baxquux

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You say that but we tried multiple personnel and multiple formations. His biggest flaws in my opinion were not related to those anyway, they were 1. Mental aspect, 2. Slowing United’s game down by holding onto the ball too long in the PL
He should have give to Spain where he’s probably have looked good in the highlight reels of Madrid. With hindsight he wasn’t right fit for the PL
I think it's somewhere between the two - with a prime Kante rather than Matic, but also with his place in the team being contingent upon moving the ball more quickly and looking for certain types of runs or combinations, he could have been very good. Look at his displays in that French team of the late 2010s....
 

Kinsella

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Pogba was a great footballer. We never were able to construct a balanced midfield to mitigate his few weaknesses. All we had to do was get a destroyer DM and a controller CM beside him, and let him be the maverick that he was. His combination of skill, technique and power was rare. Incredible talent
Pogba was talented but he was never great.

The real question is why do some people constantly judge players on their talent alone, instead of as a total package?
 

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I think it's somewhere between the two - with a prime Kante rather than Matic, but also with his place in the team being contingent upon moving the ball more quickly and looking for certain types of runs or combinations, he could have been very good. Look at his displays in that French team of the late 2010s....
Pogba and Kante rarely actually played in a midfield two, at least around that WC period they were so successful. A while ago I checked out all the games over roughly a three year period and they only played in a proper two-man midfield four times, all against very weak teams. The rest of the time they had another hard-working central midfielder in there with them, sometimes played in the midfield and sometimes played on the wing (but obviously helping out the midfield a lot more than a normal winger). It was also noticeable that in the games where Pogba was injured or rested, France were much more likely to play a proper two man midfield with two attacking wingers.

So even France, in the international stage where the intensity is much lower, and in a team that normally had a much bigger talent gap between them and the opposition than what you find in club football, didn't play Pogba in a two man midfield very often. I think they started doing it a little more often later on, but still used a third midfielder in there on a regular basis.
 

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Yep. Instead we only did that twice in his entire six years here. One short period in his first season (Herrera and Carrick beside him) where he was solid and the team as a whole was the best it was that season, then another period in his third season (Herrera and Matic) which was the best form of his career. The latter was also by far the best midfield balance we've had in the last decade and we had literal title-winning form in the 20 games they played together (17 wins, 2 draws and a loss). So what did we do...revert straight back to using him deep and expecting him to be the controlling player. :rolleyes:
For me he was the same regardless who he played with or what position/role. Few great games, mostly indifferent, few very poor games. They tried him in many. If you talking about 2019 he like many players, fell off in the crunch end of the season after Ole new manager bounce evaporated. He isn't good enough to have to sacrifice or allow such catering to him. He will always be what he is
 

Baxquux

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Pogba and Kante rarely actually played in a midfield two, at least around that WC period they were so successful. A while ago I checked out all the games over roughly a three year period and they only played in a proper two-man midfield four times, all against very weak teams. The rest of the time they had another hard-working central midfielder in there with them, sometimes played in the midfield and sometimes played on the wing (but obviously helping out the midfield a lot more than a normal winger). It was also noticeable that in the games where Pogba was injured or rested, France were much more likely to play a proper two man midfield with two attacking wingers.

So even France, in the international stage where the intensity is much lower, and in a team that normally had a much bigger talent gap between them and the opposition than what you find in club football, didn't play Pogba in a two man midfield very often. I think they started doing it a little more often later on, but still used a third midfielder in there on a regular basis.
Yeah, my point was more that Kante plus a connecting 8 (Like Herrera, even if he wasn't exactly world class) plus Pogba would have worked as upgrade on the Matic Herrera and Pogba 3 with which we played our best football, rather than Pogba as 1 in the midfield 2. I don't think Pogba's disciplined enough for 2 man midfield with a classical 10 in front of them...
 

Son

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Pogba and Kante rarely actually played in a midfield two, at least around that WC period they were so successful. A while ago I checked out all the games over roughly a three year period and they only played in a proper two-man midfield four times, all against very weak teams. The rest of the time they had another hard-working central midfielder in there with them, sometimes played in the midfield and sometimes played on the wing (but obviously helping out the midfield a lot more than a normal winger). It was also noticeable that in the games where Pogba was injured or rested, France were much more likely to play a proper two man midfield with two attacking wingers.

So even France, in the international stage where the intensity is much lower, and in a team that normally had a much bigger talent gap between them and the opposition than what you find in club football, didn't play Pogba in a two man midfield very often. I think they started doing it a little more often later on, but still used a third midfielder in there on a regular basis.
Doing a big deal for someone like Koke back then alongside Pogba would have been the thing. Herrera was supposed to be that but he was far too limited.

Matic, Pogba and a world class number 8 was what was needed. As usual it was a half baked plan due to Glazer’s going so far but not far enough with spending.

We always spend big on one player instead of thinking right who’s their partner gonna be.
 

Remember the geese

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If you just look at stats and ignore the games where he’s garbage.
Nope. If I look at the whole package. We have had a lot of genuine garbage during Rashford's time. We have also had players who are remembered fondly despite not being a fraction of the player that Rashford has been for this club.
 

elmo

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Nope. If I look at the whole package. We have had a lot of genuine garbage during Rashford's time. We have also had players who are remembered fondly despite not being a fraction of the player that Rashford has been for this club.
If you look at the whole package, you’ll realise Rashford offers next to nothing when he’s not in one of his 10-15 games per season hot streak.

And it’s the same with Pogba, they can look great on their day, and absolute garbage when they’re not in form. The biggest problem is that they’re far more often out of form than in form. Trying to argue otherwise is insane.