Do you know what is ironic though? The amount of members on this forum who's 'likes' count stopped at exactly 10. Click a few and you will see what I mean.
Paul Pogba racially abused on social media
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
Hold on, if Pogba flirting with Madrid is such a crime (and let’s be honest, he HAS dropped numerous hints) why didn’t we hear anything from Neville on Rooney who handed in two transfer requests, flirted with City, and generally behaved unprofessionally at numerous points in his career? And I know Rooney’s achievements at united can’t be compared to Pogba but that’s still a massive double standard, especially when his antics directly contributed to us losing the title in 2012. Surely that would have left Neville fuming?
I left this thread last night & rejoin with people still seeking ‘proof’ Neville is a racist despite no one actually saying he is.
The fact people refuse to get their mind around the fact that the criticism of Pogba & the narrative portrayed could perhaps fuel the fire amazes me.
People really do get uncomfortable around race so honestly how can you have a discussion. I mentioned privilege yesterday & people were falling over themselves.
People are literally speaking on behalf of Neville as if he were a family member but no one is calling him what he’s being defended against.
He has a responsibility as a pundit to analyse the game & give his opinion, he does this in a way to Pogba that doesn’t quite correlate with the vast majority of his analysis. Does this mean he is ‘a racist’, no but he has biases [not necessarily racial] that mean his lexis around the man is. . . OTT.
Neville has a right to make his points, he can make good ones but when Pogba is involved he loses all rationale.
The fact people refuse to get their mind around the fact that the criticism of Pogba & the narrative portrayed could perhaps fuel the fire amazes me.
People really do get uncomfortable around race so honestly how can you have a discussion. I mentioned privilege yesterday & people were falling over themselves.
People are literally speaking on behalf of Neville as if he were a family member but no one is calling him what he’s being defended against.
He has a responsibility as a pundit to analyse the game & give his opinion, he does this in a way to Pogba that doesn’t quite correlate with the vast majority of his analysis. Does this mean he is ‘a racist’, no but he has biases [not necessarily racial] that mean his lexis around the man is. . . OTT.
Neville has a right to make his points, he can make good ones but when Pogba is involved he loses all rationale.
Yes there is. He’s been on camera, talking about how he’s ready to move on. Lukaku obviously wanted to leave too but stopped short of telling the press.
The whole ‘he flirted with Madrid’ thing is a nonsense excuse people are using to justify their distain.
The guy said he wanted a new challenge & by the looks of his midfield partners most would too. He then turned up for pre-season & has been professional.
RvN refuses to sit on the bench before going to Madrid, Ronaldo issued post match flirtations - it goes on.
These guys are employees, not fans. Why would Pogba be ‘loyal’ given the way some fans treat him? Would you feel a part of the club when people criticise you after you give 2 assists in the first game at Chelsea for example. You’d think Cabellos was the greatest midfielder in Arsenal’s history after 2 assist this weekend where as Pogba assists twice against Chelsea & his performance thread is a shambles. People were actually celebrating that fan at the end of last season by the tunnel, bet that makes him feel like a right part of the United family.
He’s been far more professional than I would be in this instance.
The wilful ignorance of people in this thread isn’t shocking, it just speaks to how divided we all are.
Oh I agree with all of this, I don’t have any problem if he wants to leave, I’m just acknowledging that he clearly wants out, which seems to personally offend those who lose sight of the bigger picture.
It's unconscious bias, the majority of pundits in this country suffer from it.
Because Rooney doesn't play for us anymore and Neville wasn't a pundit when all that happened and Rooney is someone he played with whereas he can be more open about the current generation? Plus Rooney gave us years of world class service whereas Pogba has been a disappointment?
https://www.skysports.com/football/...tter-to-meet-over-paul-pogba-racist-abuse-row
Has this been done before? Good move if true, we need more clubs to join..
Has this been done before? Good move if true, we need more clubs to join..
Neville was pundit when Rooney asked for transfer back in 2012-13, he even did interview with Scholes in which Scholes mentioned that.
I agree with the overall point though. Rooney was teammate, friend and also played almost all his career for ManUtd.
But people are saying that Neville’s issues with Pogba are due to his disruptive influence, if that’s the case, Neville witnesses Rooney’s disruption first hand yet was extremely protective of him when he moved into punditry. Spin it whichever way you like but it’s blatant hypocrisy at the very least.
fecking hell has he been a pundit that long? The point still stands though, for all the criticism Rooney deserves(which is one whole hell of a lot) expecting Neville to be the one to do it is just going to lead to disappointment.
While this is true, what does it say about Neville’s credibility as a pundit when he can’t separate his personal relationships from his job? Stinks of hypocrisy to me.
Or it's someone not publicly slagging off his mate? Rooney deserved criticism and managed to escape a lot of it, but Neville was never going to be the one to dish it out. Whereas he's removed from the current generation and is more free to do so.
Yeah, he retired long back and also used to look like an idiot going after De Gea. IIRC SAF also commented on that back in 2011 or 2012. He said how his teammates like Vidic and others don't trust him (he became body language expert at that time analyzing video).
Agreed.
It is hypocrisy. He's a human being after all.
I agree with lot of Neville points in general but I don't take him seriously when he talks about any player. He barely criticizes English players, so I don't take his words seriously at all. I still remember how shit he was when it came to Hart vs De Gea.
And for me, that tone is one of exasperation, more than of hatred or aggression (I find Souness far worse in this regard.) And ‘potentially’ is such a tricky and suggestive word and, in my opinion, not appropriate to use when making an inference of racism and/or complicity in racism.
Yeah, but that was back when he had an unconcious bias against tall Spaniards which you can see a mile away because of his moustache, accent and where he went to school.
Now I'm realising how long De Gea has been here and feeling increasingly old. It all feels like not that long ago Sir Alex was still there, maybe I'm repressing the Moyes and LVG eras in my mind.
Exactly. I have never seen an academy graduate, and star player of a team, be so scrutinised by their own fanbase. It’s nuts. Media set the standard when he came back by having a ridiculous issue with his haircuts and happy disposition, oppo fans, often motivated by jealousy, amplified it, but the most absurd thing is how Man United fans jumped on the same train. It’s been non-stop since.
It's not tricky at all, I didn't make any of the things that you mentioned in the last sentence. And truth be told I'm done, if your goal is to argue about things that I didn't say, do it alone.
I can't speak for others, but I've been asking for direct quotes of words he's said so I can understand how those words can be held in any way accountable for the racist actions of people online or, in the example that mancan92 gave, for the racist words of an idiot in a bar. I've yet to see any. I've never said that you or mancan92 or anyone else has directly labelled Neville racist; but hinting that he is complicit in the racist actions of others is still, to my mind, a very serious charge, and one that requires more than the, at best, circumstantial evidence that has been provided.
I am more than willing to engage in discussions around race (I don't like to say comfortable because that hints at a complacency that I, as a privileged white male, have no right to.) But I think with open dialogues such as those comes a responsibility not to slander, or at the very least, to provide tangible evidence when making accusations, however subtle or indirect they may be.
Calm down JPRouve - you jumped into a discussion in which some of those inferences were being made by others, and then claimed that Neville's words had the potential to incite hatred (in a thread about racism towards Pogba.) So it is hardly a stretch to see your words as supporting the claims of others (even if that wasn't your intent), claims which implied racist complicity in Neville's words about Pogba.
Unrelated side note: I just arrived in France yesterday - the croissants really are amazing. Now to try the French taco....
It's not circumstantial it is video evidence. You believe that he didn't cross a line whilst other people feel he did. It's that simple.
What's this plonker's name again? I'm gonna have a go at him on Twitter.
I didn't jump in a discussion, I didn't quote or linked my post to anyone. You asked me a question and when I gave you an answer, you made it about racism even though the first post that you quoted clearly stated that I don't suspect any racism in Neville. That's why I thought that the thread was weird, it's as if no one actually read the posts that they are quoting. And it seems to be true for both sides.
PS: I'm glad you liked it, the quality varies a lot from one shop to the other.
Neville works for Sky! Sky are Uk version of Fox.
And what did he say that crossed the line?
Although I agree with you, I also have to say that the media is complicit in the events that have surrounded Pogba recently. Although Neville's words may not have directly resulted in Pogba being abused, but he's feeding a narrative that has been going on for a few years. Ever since Pogba joined United, he has been subject to a media witch hunt, for reasons that we can all speculate (I suspect racial undertones myself). Gary Neville has done very little to alleviate this agenda, and even worse, has been feeding it and causing it to grow.
Neville is one of the most prominent figures in British football and I don't think it's over the top to say that if he doesn't have a go at Pogba, then the abuse may have been less severe from the idiots on Twitter.
Not even remotely the same thing. We are talking about negative rhetoric against a player of color on a world wide stage. Equating video games or random anonymous posters to this issue is intellectually dishonest at best. After the 4-0 loss to Everton, Neville referred to Pogba as "rotten" and essentially placed all the blame on him for United woes. This is essentially making him a target. Do I believe Neville is a racist? Absolutely not. But that doesn't matter as his agenda-filled rants against Pogba are watched by millions of fans, feed into the negativity around him and make him an easy target for idiots such as racists.
For the last time, it's not Neville's fault but his comments hold a lot of weight because of his platform. He should know better and keep his negative biases to himself.
You lost that one when the angry brigade voted to leave brexit because immigrants are scary.
I have to say though, super uplifting to see Rashford and perhaps most of all Maguire come out and speak out against these scumbags directly.
I would have no qualms about these people being banned from Old Trafford for the next 5 years until they have shown they can be functioning adults.
It is good to see he has the support of his teammates and the club. It is the angry brigade that scare me, not the immigrants.
This is a problem of social media more than people. We already knew that there are racists around, what they've got now is a platform to direct their hate towards the players.
This reads like it's more a problem of people than social media.
Agreed. Social media pl
Free speech is one thing, the freedom to spout racist bile is another. Harry Maguire is correct, all these accounts should be registered with identification so people can be held accountable for the crap the post.
I’m not a massive Pogba fan but I’ve got his back on this one.
Agreed. Social media platforms have a responsibility (or should have) to ensure twattish comments aren’t put out there.
Free speech is one thing, the freedom to spout racist bile is another. Harry Maguire is correct, all these accounts should be registered with identification so people can be held accountable for the crap the post.
I’m not a massive Pogba fan but I’ve got his back on this one.
Another good point.
Ok, chalk it up to misunderstanding. The quality might vary, but if you've ever tasted a croissant in Canada, you'll be thankful for any that you have in France! I'm in Grenoble, so apparently there are a number of French taco places nearby...
It might not be over the top, but it's speculative in the extreme, and quite a serious accusation to make.